The Story of Gaby Olthuis

[dan]

@here2help, I appreciate your support and you are correct in your assumption.

 

[cullenbohannon]

Sorry to hear that dan. I didn't know you were feeling that way. Stay strong man.

 

[Boxdra]

People should not be scared or surprised with this. Every disease had people who give up. I remember reading people with severe acne commiting suïcide. Acne is really common to.

 

[Lisa88]

I see this woman as incredibly brave to film her story in the hopes that the public and researchers would understand the seriousness of this condition.
There should be no judgment here, but deep understanding, tempered by hope for more awareness and a better tomorrow.

 

[Stina]

As was mentioned before, people have killed themselves for seemingly much more trivial reasons. If you read the news then a few weeks ago a teenage boy tried to kill himself because he couldn't take the perfect selfie. Does that mean that if you cant't take the perfect selfie you have to kill or yourself? Or does this mean that taking selfies iss dangerous? No, this all just means that the problem was the boy. It is perfectly posssible to live with tinnitu as well. We dont know the backstory of that woman. If she had had any other annoying disease she probably would have killed her as well. The truth is that it is very hard to cure most diseases (such as Boxdra mentioned - even acne is sometimes untreatable. I have a friend who at 25 has really bad acne and nothing works). Also the truth is that life treats some people more harshly and if you are prone to anxiety that might end in suicide. My point is that yes, tinnitus is a horrible condition, but there are always people who have it worse or just as bad and who live. Here on this board we also have several people with severe tinnitus who live a happy and productive life. The fact that others suffer too is not supposed to make one happy, but is supposed to discipline to see the situation more realistically.
Also, in tinnitus research most scientist are taking it very seriously and quite a lot of research is going to. Doctors is another thing.

 

[bill 112]

Agreed Lisa this woman should not die in vein.Her story should be told and shown as I said above to the government to show how much of a horrible condition this is and fund research and to the researchers themselves to remind them why they are so important to every T sufferer.

 

[Stina]

Also I wanted to mention that actually speaking about suicide in media acquires special training, as studies have shown that for some reason speaking about suicide in media brings on other suicides. Some might say that "this iss the reality of life", id say that journalists should think first or consult professionals and at least edit the story first.

 

[Stina]

http://www.lifesitenews.com/blog/blind-woman-dies-by-euthanasia-in-the-netherlands Soon we will read that a boy died by euthanasia because he couldn't take a perfect selfie as well.

Another link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...and-euthanasia-choosing-end-lives-cancer.html

 

[billie48]

Here2help, this is a rare time I disagree with you and I often respect your opinion. Perhaps we agree on the need for members to express freely their thoughts. I just happen to think that introducing a story of suicides with T being stated a reason for it is not what the support forum needs. I am not someone who likes to debate. But I do feel strongly that TT support forum is not a place where we copy & paste sad news about people killing themselves for tinnitus and make it a thread in the support forum. We all know people can kill themselves for many different reasons, and sometimes T may just happen to be one more tough issue for someone already suffering from many depressing issues. The trouble is that given the brevity of a news clip with no detail about the psychological background of any one committing suicides who happen to have tinnitus, posting these stories here only serve to alarm newer T sufferers that tinnitus is the trigger for their demise. This is not something TT stands for in the support forum.

I understand where you are coming from, freedom to express one's thoughts & ideas. I totally support that. I have never voiced against anyone who comes here saying he/she is suicidal or even has tried doing that because of their sufferings. Heartbroken just posted about her attempted suicide in a recent support thread. Neenie has been posting 'I want to die' too. That is ok. These are their true personal feelings, their own experiences. We can all try to help these newer sufferers to hopefully convince them that T is livable and is not an end game. But copying bad tinnitus news as sad as this to present it as an information to those who have come here for support and hope does not serve any purpose in a support forum. It may cause a highly stressed and depressed new sufferer more anxiety and uncertainty about the future.

We are not saying this type of bad news does not happen to tinnitus sufferers. It should not be hidden. But it can be reported and perhaps debated in other forums, not a support forum. They are not the norm of T sufferers. The fact that most people don't need support forum to live with their tinnitus, and most who seek support will recover to a certain degree over time to be able to live their life again, why then should those who come here for support, who may be highly distressed and emotionally depressed, should need to read in the support forum such type of sad news which only happen to a very small % of tinnitus sufferers, and whose suicides might have been triggered by much more than tinnitus that we don't know.

By putting these news here in the support forum, tnnitus is made front & center for their demise. It surely misinforms these desperate support seekers that T is quite a threat and can be very deadly, even if you have families and love ones to care for. That is not the message TT support forum should be about. My humble 2 cents.

 

[dan]

We are not saying this type of bad news does not happen to tinnitus sufferers. It should not be hidden. But it can be reported and perhaps debated in other forums, not a support forum.

Can you give me a suggestion as to which forum to post such news.. cancer forums perhaps?
Ok maybe I shall wait until this support forum evolves into a Tinnitus Network.

The trouble is that given the brevity of a news clip with no detail about the psychological background of any one committing suicides who happen to have tinnitus, posting these stories here only serve to alarm newer T sufferers that tinnitus is the trigger for their demise.

Yes sure, lets blame other psychological issues for this woman's death- It wasn't the tinnitus alone. Now you sound like an FDA official.

 

[Stina]

We are not saying this type of bad news does not happen to tinnitus sufferers. It should not be hidden. But it can be reported and perhaps debated in other forums, not a support forum.

Can you give me a suggestion as to which forum to post such news.. cancer forums perhaps?
Ok maybe I shall wait until this support forum evolves into a Tinnitus Network.

The trouble is that given the brevity of a news clip with no detail about the psychological background of any one committing suicides who happen to have tinnitus, posting these stories here only serve to alarm newer T sufferers that tinnitus is the trigger for their demise.

Yes sure, lets blame other psychological issues for this woman's death- It wasn't the tinnitus alone. Now you sound like an FDA official.

Actually there is a thing called the instinct of life. Thats what keeps humans and any other living beings alive. If a person kill himself, then that means that there must have been something wrong with him before. Around 50% of how we think is genetic, 40% iss our decision and 10% created by life. So at least 1/2 of how we think is genetics and in this case tinnitus can be considered as a triggerer.
In the 40s thousands of people where deported in my country. Some people had to live fo decades under extreme condition, working 16 hours a day, hard physical work with no food, no medical care, no knowledge of whether and if they will ever be able to go home. Read their diaries. Some of course killed themselves, whereas others survived and even managed to get home although they had lived in unstoppable hell. What does that tell us?
Also, read the posts above. The articles clearly state that people choose euthanasia for other reasons as well, such as blindness. This means that people expect life to be easy, although nobody ever promised that. Life can give a person crap, and it is the persons job to suck it up. In addition to this, strong people who fight have always been the ones to actually change smth. I believe that this community, the possibility of creating TN, informational stories about prevention (and not suicide), dialogue with doctors are the things that have the possibility to change smth. If all patients kill themselves then why do we need a treatment at all? I think the people who live albeit how hard life gets are the ones who inspire doctors to find treatments, not the ones who choose euthanasia and who dont think about their families and children.

 

[dan]

If a person kill himself, then that means that there must have been something wrong with him before. Around 50% of how we think is genetic, 40% iss our decision and 10% created by life. So at least 1/2 of how we think is genetics and in this case tinnitus can be considered as a triggerer.

Do you have a professional reference to this statement?

This means that people expect life to be easy, although nobody ever promised that. Life can give a person crap, and it is the persons job to suck it up.

Thanks Stina, I'll try to keep that in mind.

 

[Lisa88]

Wow. These comments are so belittling and harsh. If anyone should have understanding for what this poor woman has been through, it is the tinnitus community. We are all different. It is not up to us to stand in judgment of her. And comparing her plight with tinnitus to discontent with a selfie is inappropriate, to say the least.

 

[Catarina]

It's a shame the posting of this article has generated more of a discussion of whether/where it should have been posted instead of the more profound issues it raises. I see the point about the Support forum, but it doesn't really fit in one of the other sub forums either. I absolutely think it needed to be posted, and above all this story needs to be reported in the general media outside the Netherlands. It would raise awareness of the fact that tinnitus can severely affect your life, it's a very real thing, and of the lack of good help that is on offer. There is also the interesting issue of euthanasia per se. As I understand it euthanasia can be carried out legally in the Netherlands if several conditions are fulfilled, one of which is: "The patient's suffering is unbearable with no prospect of improvement". When it is discussed in other countries it is often limited to being allowed for terminally ill patients. The article shocked me, and I think it reflects badly on the medical profession if they allowed this instead of trying their utmost to find help for her, at least a "prospect of improvement". But then, there may very well be more to this story than what we are told in the article.

 

[Stina]

If a person kill himself, then that means that there must have been something wrong with him before. Around 50% of how we think is genetic, 40% iss our decision and 10% created by life. So at least 1/2 of how we think is genetics and in this case tinnitus can be considered as a triggerer.

Do you have a professional reference to this statement?

This means that people expect life to be easy, although nobody ever promised that. Life can give a person crap, and it is the persons job to suck it up.

Thanks Stina, I'll try to keep that in mind.

I dont have a reference but I my psychiatrist told me that.

 

[dan]

I dont have a reference but I my psychiatrist told me that.

Well it must be true then.

I imagine there is NO other affliction in existence where there is so much disagreement and misunderstanding between actual sufferers.
Lets see, some of the major causes of conflict on a tinnitus forum:

Tinnitus loudness vs distress
Tinnitus treatments and their effectiveness vs their ineffectiveness
Tinnitus suffering vs non-suffering
Need for a cure vs. cure not really needed (habituation is sufficient in most cases)
Tinnitus suicide vs Tinnitus does not cause suicide (blame the victim/doctor)
Tinnitus worsening vs not worsening
Tinnitus scam vs non scam

I could go on and on LOL

 

[Stina]

Well it must be true then.

I imagine there is NO other affliction in existence where there is so much disagreement and misunderstanding between actual sufferers.
Lets see, some of the major causes of conflict on a tinnitus forum:

Tinnitus loudness vs distress
Tinnitus treatments and their effectiveness vs their ineffectiveness
Tinnitus suffering vs non-suffering
Need for a cure vs. cure not really needed (habituation is sufficient in most cases)
Tinnitus suicide vs Tinnitus does not cause suicide (blame the victim/doctor)
Tinnitus worsening vs not worsening
Tinnitus scam vs non scam

I could go on and on LOL

My point was not to say that tinnitus does not cause distress or that it doesn't need treatment. Sure it causes distress and can make a person consider suicide and can make one loose his job etc. But many other conditions and life in general can do that as well, and that does not mean that one has to kill himself. One can also find a way to live with it. Some even go to science and try to help others. I also dont think that raising awareness should be done at the expense of one's life. There are other ways for that. Also, it is very wrong to say that scientists dont understand how difficult this condition is. If they didnt think so, there wouldnt be so many scientists working on it. Doctors and scientists shouldnt be confused, as a lot of doctors tend to be indifferent.

 

[billie48]

We are not saying this type of bad news does not happen to tinnitus sufferers. It should not be hidden. But it can be reported and perhaps debated in other forums, not a support forum.

Can you give me a suggestion as to which forum to post such news.. cancer forums perhaps?
Ok maybe I shall wait until this support forum evolves into a Tinnitus Network.

The trouble is that given the brevity of a news clip with no detail about the psychological background of any one committing suicides who happen to have tinnitus, posting these stories here only serve to alarm newer T sufferers that tinnitus is the trigger for their demise.

Yes sure, lets blame other psychological issues for this woman's death- It wasn't the tinnitus alone. Now you sound like an FDA official.

I am not the forum admin and so I will defer this to them where to post this. Perhaps you should ask them first what is the appropriate place in their site this news story should be posted or ask them if this is something they want to be posted on their site. Me sound like an FDA official? Give me a break. I am not coming here to join TT just to get into personal attacks like what happened in Yuku. Please stay to the points and avoid personal attack. I have not said a word about you personally. I just feel that copying suicide story or stories to post here as a support thread in the Support Forum is not serving the purpose of support and may convey a wrong message to newer sufferers who are here looking for reassurances and hope. This is supposed to be a sanctuary for them. We don't need to scare them with more horror stories about T suicides in the support forum. Members who have recovered or have been recovering may not be affected by news like this. They already know what T is all about. It is those who are new to T, confused and anxious like hell about T, depressed & perhaps suicidal, they don't need to be more confused and depressed by reading this story when they come here for hope & support.

 

[dan]

Wow. These comments are so belittling and harsh. If anyone should have understanding for what this poor woman has been through, it is the tinnitus community.

I agree!
----------------
Ok, I've had enough of this pointless bickering.

 

[Meestijn]

It has been a while since I wrote something related to T on this forum but I really have the need to do so now...

Did any of you actually see this report/interview on television?
I guess not looking at some of the reactions.
Of course it is everybodies right to have its own opinion or think about what see did and whether euthanasia is a good or bad thing, but pls stop belittling as sad before as the madness was in HER HEAD not yours.

I saw the interview, I'm from the Netherlands, and I can tell you one thing... if I had it in her form... I wonder if I could live life too...
Her T was so severe and intrusive (they let hear ALL the different sounds see had to deal with at the same time for only a few seconds but that was already enough for me to go nuts as a T person myself).
Next to it... she as well had a severe form of H on top of it.
And yes see tried a bunch of things to get rid of T and H.

I managed (at least for now) to overcome the allien sound and can life a happy life again (both due to the fact that my T lowered in volume and that I believe I already partially habituated) but I hate when people start to talk FOR others people their suffering (in this case T). Do you think see made this decision overnight knowing that see would leave behind loved ones etc... She even mentioned she love life but the suffering was too much for her. I believe this forum contains intelligent people and instead of belittling and judge her we should feel sorry for her suffering and the pain see has gone through. I really hope none of us ever has to face the suffering she went through.

I agree that this should not belong to the Support section, however, I think it is still relevant and fair to post this kinds of news on TT as well. We should be aware of the complete spectrum of what something (like in this case T) can do. Like with all kind of disorders, diseases etc... there are gradations and thus the suffering for each individual differs.

Wishing everybody (including myself) a Tless future...

 

[Stina]

@Meestijn the point is that stories like that affect people prone to suicide the most. Id understand if it was posted on a board for doctors, but this board is for people who have it hard anyway. Posting stories like that is not going to help anyone and might end in actual suicide. Writing "newbies dont read" is like writing "candy - dont eat it" to a 4-year-old.

 

[inadmin]

You all relate to newbies as the potential "victims" for reading this thread. We forget that some of us are struggling with this even after some time. Now you can always say "people commit suicide even because their girlfriend left them" but that cannot underestimate the suffering this woman went through, and who are we to judge her mental strength? just because "most people can on with their lives and only 5% suffer?"

It might be true that it's a rare thing for someone to take their lives because of T, but it is so very depressing to hear those stories - even if it does not drive someone to thoughts about doing that, it can really put the condition in a horrible perspective.

I personally think it should not have been posted in the support forum, with all due respect to this wonderful forum, that would not make a difference to the scientific community and no one would start a research because it was posted here.

 

[inadmin]

@Meestijn Writing "newbies dont read" is like writing "candy - dont eat it" to a 4-year-old.

Also the story is actually in the topic

 

[Stina]

Also the story is actually in the topic

and in the title as well

 

[inadmin]

Sorry i meant title.

 

[Martin69]

This thread is not want I wanted to read today. Every day is a challenge for me.

 

[Kathi]

I'm a newbie and this story upset me--but I do know that this happens. Some people choose to take another path. It is like that with most things. We have no idea of the woman's journey--other factors that might have been contributing to her depression. She is not me. I 'm choosing another path. Having read Dr. Nagler's story and the severe intrusive T that he overcame, I think it is a proven path.

Just my two cents.

 

[Steve]

I don't like to see the story but it has happened. It doesn't belong in support and @dan I don't think that newbies don't read is appropriate in the title, it baits them to read.

In my opinion it is something that can help us, to understand how somebody got to this stage. Then try and understand what can be done to bring yourself back from the edge that many of us felt.

The translation may not be perfect, but this makes me uncomfortable:

Olthuis has been involved in dozens of experts but was always told that there was nothing to do.Tinnitus is not a deadly disease, "you have to live with it," she said.

If this is the case then I would say that she hadn't seen any real experts; which practitioner who treats and understands tinnitus would say that? The answer is none.

But which poorly informed ENT or GP would say that? We all know from our experiences that they are too many.

If she did not have access and information around the range of treatments available then this euthanasia is criminally wrong. They should have explored the possibilities and helped her understand the things that can be done.

 

[Saif]

I want to end my life but I can't imagine my family live their life with someone who killed him self.
The positive thing about tinnitus that I'm ready to die at any moment.
If I will have cancer in future I will not ask for a cure.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

The article does not bother me. On the other hand, I don't think it brings any real value, either.

Death does not scare me. Life does. Life comes with unemployment, disease, poverty, hunger, divorce, war, tinnitus, and many other nasty things.

I suppose my opinions are pretty much the opposite of most people. But, then again, I have never been like "most people".