Tinnitus and Hyperacusis Have Worsened AGAIN (After Spending an Hour at a 90 dB Restaurant)

[Michael Leigh]

@Jazzer

I am surprized and taken aback that you have succumbed to use ridicule on some of my posts. My comments are valid and quite true even though you don't agree with them. Someone of your intelligence, shouldn't have to stoop to such a level, unlike a few of the members in this forum that have been placed on ignore for such childish behaviour.

Michael

 

[Jazzer]

@Jazzer

I am surprized and taken aback that you have succumbed to use ridicule on some of my posts. My comments are valid and quite true even though you don't agree with them. Someone of your intelligence, shouldn't have to stoop to such a level, unlike a few of the members in this forum that have been placed on ignore for such childish behaviour.

Michael

Okay Michael.
There should be a symbol for disapproval.

You are suggesting that decibel meters are inherently a bad thing.
I believe that noises with a decibel readings in excess of 100 dbs are potentially very dangerous to those of us who have already sustained considerable damage to our cochlea.
So how do you suppose I can judge that volume, which I could easily encounter in a restaurant, bar, disco, party, wedding reception...etc...
without a decibel meter?

A dB meter on an iPhone is an excellent idea.

Similarly, ear plugs should be carried by all those of us who have already sustained considerable damage.

In short, I find your complete dismissal of sensible precautions to be nothing short of cavalier, and to be honest, it worries me that vulnerable members may act on it.
Of course, they will read various posts and make up their own minds what to do, but where I am actually worried for them, I need to get that opinion across.
I didn't particularlly like resorting to the 'smiley face' but I do believe there should be an alternative symbol to denote disagreement.
However, in deference to you, I will remove it.
Regards
Dave

 

[Michael Leigh]

You are suggesting that decibel meters are inherently a bad thing.
I believe that noises with a decibel readings in excess of 100 dbs are potentially very dangerous to those of us who have already sustained considerable damage to our cochlea.
So how do you suppose I can judge that volume, which I could easily encounter in a restaurant, bar, disco, party, wedding reception...etc...
without a decibel meter?

Your ears and auditory system will let you know if the environment you're in is too loud. Decibel meters and Apps reinforce that you have a problem. The answer is to seek treatment. Your notion that TRT and CBT are ineffective for treating tinnitus and hyperacusis are wrong I assure you. You have never tried these treatments I have. Do not be guided by misinformed individuals whose only contribution to this forum, is to copy and paste links to website where so called tests are carried out by people that have no experience with tinnitus or hyperacusis. I have experience with severe hyperacusis that was completely cured in 2 years with TRT. I have 22 years experience with tinnitus that was treated twice with TRT. I also had some CBT treatment for tinnitus.

A dB meter on an iPhone is an excellent idea.

No it is not. It serves one purpose for people with tinnitus. To monitor every little sound in their proximity and to be afraid of it.

Similarly, ear plugs should be carried by all those of us who have already sustained considerable damage.

Earplugs have their uses but again, instil panic and fear and reinforce the belief that a person has a problem with normal everyday sounds, when in reality this is not the case.

In short, I find your complete dismissal of sensible precautions to be nothing short of cavalier, and to be honest, it worries me that vulnerable members may act on it.

With respect @Jazzer Although you have had tinnitus for many years which was manageable by your own words, it has recently become a problem. Therefore, you are a newbie and many newbies just like your cohort who isn't on the forum today (thank goodness) promotes panic and fear which really isn't necessary.

I shan't be commenting anymore on this topic, for it's clear you have made your decision on the way you wish to deal with tinnitus, and I wish you well.

Michael

 

[Jazzer]

Your ears and auditory system will let you know if the environment you're in is too loud. Decibel meters and Apps reinforce that you have a problem. The answer is to seek treatment. Your notion that TRT and CBT are ineffective for treating tinnitus and hyperacusis are wrong I assure you. You have never tried these treatments I have. Do not be guided by misinformed individuals whose only contribution to this forum, is to copy and paste links to website where so called tests are carried out by people that have no experience with tinnitus or hyperacusis. I have experience with severe hyperacusis that was completely cured in 2 years with TRT. I have 22 years experience with tinnitus that was treated twice with TRT. I also had some CBT treatment for tinnitus.


No it is not. It serves one purpose for people with tinnitus. To monitor every little sound in their proximity and to be afraid of it.



Earplugs have their uses but again, instil panic and fear and reinforce the belief that a person has a problem with normal everyday sounds, when in reality this is not the case.



With respect @Jazzer Although you have had tinnitus for many years which was manageable by your own words, it has recently become a problem. Therefore, you are a newbie and many newbies just like your cohort who isn't on the forum today (thank goodness) promotes panic and fear which really isn't necessary.

I shan't be commenting anymore on this topic, for it's clear you have made your decision on the way you wish to deal with tinnitus, and I wish you well.

Michael

Well as you know I completely disagree with your approach to this aspect of Tinnitus, but even though I could argue with each of your points it would be fruitless.

The head CBT clinician at Guildford general hospital questioned me on my knowledge and understanding of Tinnitus and advised me that my understanding was clear, my psychological approach was good, my meditational practice was excellent, and that I stood to gain little from the exercise.
Yes, I took her word for it.

However, interminable arguments are pointless, so I'll bid you good night Michael.
Dave.

 

[Marko Nakovski]

I had similar trauma 3-4 weeks ago but it was much louder. I shooted with a gun indoors 4 weeks ago and 2 weeks after that I developed hyperacusis which I never had in the past. I was wearing the big ear protect they give you in every shooting range and also I weared silicone earplugs. As far as I know shooting with gun ( glock ) is considered to have 155 db. I shooted 40 bullets but 2 meters next to me was my mother and she was shooting too. I think that the big earplugs reduce the volume by 25-30db and my silicone protectors reduce somewhere between 15- db. So by doing the math the sound was somewhere between 155-400 = 115 db if Im correct.

 

[JohnAdams]

@Jazzer

I am surprized and taken aback that you have succumbed to use ridicule on some of my posts. My comments are valid and quite true even though you don't agree with them. Someone of your intelligence, shouldn't have to stoop to such a level, unlike a few of the members in this forum that have been placed on ignore for such childish behaviour.

Michael

Ignore me then. Because I think you're dangerous.

 

[Red]

I had similar trauma 3-4 weeks ago but it was much louder. I shooted with a gun indoors 4 weeks ago and 2 weeks after that I developed hyperacusis which I never had in the past. I was wearing the big ear protect they give you in every shooting range and also I weared silicone earplugs. As far as I know shooting with gun ( glock ) is considered to have 155 db. I shooted 40 bullets but 2 meters next to me was my mother and she was shooting too. I think that the big earplugs reduce the volume by 25-30db and my silicone protectors reduce somewhere between 15- db. So by doing the math the sound was somewhere between 155-400 = 115 db if Im correct.

No. Just because it adds up to 40db doesn't mean it actually reduces 40db. Also after a certain loudness sound just goes through you via bone conduction.

 

[Marko Nakovski]

@Red Im not familiar with these things. How much db should reduce both earplugs and earmuffs ?

 

[Alue]

I have a decibel meter reader on my phone and a separate one I purchased on Amazon. The ones on our phones are quiet good and are usually within 3-5 Db (higher) of the legit meter. It also depends on if you are measure using A, B, C or Z. Between A and Z there is always a 10 Db increase. I am not sure why or what the difference is.

Overall our phones do a good job at estimating within 3-5 dB, but aren't exact.

Do you have an android or iPhone? I have three handheld decibel meters and a decibel meter app on my android (Galaxy s9). They are all over the place. For continuous noises it's somewhat comparable, but it depends on the frequency, for short duration (impulse) noises the readings are different for every meter I own. Because there are so many different android manufacturers, it's next to impossible to make an app that is accurate for them all unless you make the user calibrate it.

As for a continuous 90db noise level, that is very loud. There is one place where I used to work that would be a steady 90-95 db when machinery was running with low tones like a giant compressor. I would double up on protection when I had to be there for a short time and avoided that place as much as possible. That level of noise is loud enough that you have to raise your voice and holler for someone standing right in front of you to be able to hear.

 

[Alue]

@Red Im not familiar with these things. How much db should reduce both earplugs and earmuffs ?

Doubling up on protection only adds about 4-7db NRR on top of single hearing protection. It's a logarithmic scale.

 

[Jack Straw]

Do you have an android or iPhone? I have three handheld decibel meters and a decibel meter app on my android (Galaxy s9). They are all over the place. For continuous noises it's somewhat comparable, but it depends on the frequency, for short duration (impulse) noises the readings are different for every meter I own. Because there are so many different android manufacturers, it's next to impossible to make an app that is accurate for them all unless you make the user calibrate it.

As for a continuous 90db noise level, that is very loud. There is one place where I used to work that would be a steady 90-95 db when machinery was running with low tones like a giant compressor. I would double up on protection when I had to be there for a short time and avoided that place as much as possible. That level of noise is loud enough that you have to raise your voice and holler for someone standing right in front of you to be able to hear.

Iphone. I agree impulse noises are harder to be accurate with Iphone vs DB device but continuous noise is pretty close.

 

[dpdx]

I had similar trauma 3-4 weeks ago but it was much louder. I shooted with a gun indoors 4 weeks ago and 2 weeks after that I developed hyperacusis which I never had in the past. I was wearing the big ear protect they give you in every shooting range and also I weared silicone earplugs. As far as I know shooting with gun ( glock ) is considered to have 155 db. I shooted 40 bullets but 2 meters next to me was my mother and she was shooting too. I think that the big earplugs reduce the volume by 25-30db and my silicone protectors reduce somewhere between 15- db. So by doing the math the sound was somewhere between 155-400 = 115 db if Im correct.

You have another acoustic trauma. Seems kind of dumb to go out and shoot guns when you have Noise Induced Hearing Loss (Acoustic Trauma) and you haven't healed yet.

 

[Michael Leigh]

The head CBT clinician at Guildford general hospital questioned me on my knowledge and understanding of Tinnitus and advised me that my understanding was clear, my psychological approach was good, my meditational practice was excellent, and that I stood to gain little from the exercise.
Yes, I took her word for it.

I hear you @Jazzer and respect you enough not to argue and it's not my style anyway. I adopt the other option when people rub me up the wrong way and are disrespectful. I have found it to be quite effective. I like what you have to say even though we disagree on this matter.

Take care
Michael

 

[Jazzer]

I hear you @Jazzer and respect you enough not to argue and it's not my style anyway. I adopt the other option when people rub me up the wrong way and are disrespectful -it is quite effective. I like what you have to say even though we disagree on this matter.

Take care
Michael

Disagreement is healthy isn't it Michael.
No one person 'rules the roost.'
I actually intended no disrespect.
You are a gentleman Michael, and
that always shows through my friend,
Best
Dave x

 

[Michael Leigh]

Disagreement is healthy isn't it Michael.
No one person 'rules the roost.'
I actually intended no disrespect.
You are a gentleman Michael, and
that always shows through my friend,
Best
Dave x

Thank you for your kind comments @Jazzer Disagreement is healthy but respect should always be shown which you have always shown towards me. I too regard you as a gentleman. Not just because you are senior to me in years although that does have some bearing. I was brought up to respect my elders something that is seriously lacking in todays society.

We are close neighbours, you in Surrey and I in Sussex, so we've got to show them how we do it here...
Hope you have a pleasant day.
Take care

Michael

 

[Jazzer]

We are close neighbours, you in Surrey and I in Sussex, so we've got to show them how we do it here...

'Hahahaha....a sense of humour helps eh Michael?
You also stood by me a month ago when I was in the process of getting clobbered.
I haven't forgotten that buddy.....x'

 

[jasonbourne]

The barking of your dog will not damage your ears. It is the belief that it might which is of concern. Belief can kill and it can cure. Tinnitus is 90% mental in the way we deal with it and how it affects our mental and emotional wellbeing. Once negativity is reinforced about a certain thing to do with tinniitus. It can be: Intolerance to certain sounds, disbelief that a treatment won't work etc - these thoughts become very real and difficult for a person to change.

It is for this reason, I advise anyone that is in the habituation process or having a particular treatment for their tinnitus: TRT, CBT etc, to keep away from tinnitus forums and negative thinking people. Their negative beliefs can seriously affect a person's progress on the habitution path.

Michael

How is tinnitus 90% mental? What a silly thing to say. The only percentages I'd agree with is a graph in a negative correlation, with tinnitus volume on the y axis and "mental aspect" on the x.

 

[jay777]

 

[Tinker Bell]

You have another acoustic trauma. Seems kind of dumb to go out and shoot guns when you have Noise Induced Hearing Loss (Acoustic Trauma) and you haven't healed yet.

This thread slipped off topic, but hopefully you can clarify if your decibel reader indicated a constant 90dB sound environment. That would be concerning for anyone working at the restaurant.

 

[dpdx]

This thread slipped off topic, but hopefully you can clarify if your decibel reader indicated a constant 90dB sound environment. That would be concerning for anyone working at the restaurant.

The decibel meter said 90db. Anyways it dosent matter after the Caloric/CVEMP damaged my hearing, it seems that it can be aggravated quickly. Our ears are very fragile now and prone to more damage.

 

[Michael Leigh]

How is tinnitus 90% mental? What a silly thing to say.

It is only silly to those that do not understand how tinnitus affects a person. Ask any veteran to this condition and they will agree with me. That I can assure you!

Veteran meaning a person that has had tinnitus for at least 20 years.

 

[jasonbourne]

It is only silly to those that do not understand how tinnitus affects a person. Ask any veteran to this condition and they will agree with me. That I can assure you!

Veteran meaning a person that has had tinnitus for at least 20 years.

So let me get this straight. You're saying that tinnitus is 90% mental regardless of whether it's mild or severe? I don't think anyone would agree with you.

 

[jasonbourne]

I know one thing. The best place for decibel meters is in the rubbish bin. They promote negative thinking and reinforce the belief that the person using them has a problem with intolerance to sound. I have used a decibel meter and also a decibel App on my phone, purely for experimental purposes when writing my post: Hypercusis, As I see it. I tolerated sound levels of 100db without any problems.

Once you stop using decibel meters, earplugs, earmuffs unnecessarily. Stress, anxiety fear and paranoia, will begin to subside and a person will start to feel much better about themselves, tinnitus and life. Guaranteed.

Michael

This is as silly as telling someone with a phobia of car accidents to not wear a sealtbelt, as it reinforces negative thinking. Terrible advice.

 

[Michael Leigh]

So let me get this straight. You're saying that tinnitus is 90% mental regardless of whether it's mild or severe? I don't think anyone would agree with you.

@jasonbourne

I want you to understand the type of person I am.
I like to be spoken to with respect and good manners. In this case, when someone writes to me quoting my post or askes me a question, I expect them to be polite, show manners and have respect, which you have not done so far. On this occasion I will let it pass.

When I say tinnitus is 90% mental. What I mean is the way a person is able to deal with it emotionally. Whether it is: mild, moderate or severe it all means the same thing. Some people can have mild or moderate tinnitus and it can make their life miserable because they are unable to deal with the way it affects their emotional wellbeing. This takes time to acquire until habituation has been reached.

Someone that has severe tinnitus may find it problematic even distressing at times, but they are able to deal with it in a totally different way to a person that has it mild or moderate and are distressed by the noise. That is the point I am trying to convey.

Michael

 

[coffee_girl]

Michael has a certain way with his writing, you have to read most of his posts to understand the things he's written in this thread. It may seem like broad generalizations but there is some truth to them. Plus his opinions are always more on the controversial side but they are interesting and do apply to some people. It is true that we all get intensely paranoid sometimes, in these cases we need a helping hand to bring us back to our senses.

 

[jasonbourne]

@jasonbourne

I want you to understand the type of person I am.
I like to be spoken to with respect and good manners. In this case, when someone writes to me quoting my post or askes me a question, I expect them to be polite, show manners and have respect, which you have not done so far. On this occasion I will let it pass.

When I say tinnitus is 90% mental. What I mean is the way a person is able to deal with it emotionally. Whether it is: mild, moderate or severe it all means the same thing. Some people can have mild or moderate tinnitus and it can make their life miserable because they are unable to deal with the way it affects their emotional wellbeing. This takes time to acquire until habituation has been reached.

Someone that has severe tinnitus may find it problematic even distressing at times, but they are able to deal with it in a totally different way to a person that has it mild or moderate and are distressed by the noise. That is the point I am trying to convey.

Michael

You're wrong, because I've transitioned from 1/10 tinnitus all the way to 7/10 (using numbers just for you to get an idea), I know how volume matters. What you're basically saying is that someone distressed by a mild tinnitus will be equally distressed if it progresses to moderate, which is ridiculous. Whether it's sudden or progressive is irrelavent might I add.

I mean, I'm not even sure what the end goal of your logic/theory is. Anyone who is distressed by mild would be suicidal at moderate.

Also who do you think you are lol mr manners. Get over yourself. You repeat the same stuff over and over like a robot anyway. I'm replying to you only for people reading.

 

[orbiter12]

I know one thing. The best place for decibel meters is in the rubbish bin. They promote negative thinking and reinforce the belief that the person using them has a problem with intolerance to sound. I have used a decibel meter and also a decibel App on my phone, purely for experimental purposes when writing my post: Hypercusis, As I see it. I tolerated sound levels of 100db without any problems.

Once you stop using decibel meters, earplugs, earmuffs unnecessarily. Stress, anxiety fear and paranoia, will begin to subside and a person will start to feel much better about themselves, tinnitus and life. Guaranteed.

Michael

So you can tolerate 100 dB but you tinnitus worsened to astonishing levels where you need benzos to function some days from listening to classic music on a speaker system at a normal volume?

 

[Michael Leigh]

Please save me @coffee_girl for I give up...lol

Thanks your input you understand where I'm coming from quite well. As I said in an early post: You're quite a sensible person.
All the best
Michael

 

[coffee_girl]

Please save me @coffee_girl for I give up...lol

Thanks your input you understand where I'm coming from quite well. As I said in an early post: You're quite a sensible person.
All the best
Michael

Lol don't let it get to you, I think a majority of those opposing you are weathering in their own storm right now and are seeing things through an emotional lens.

Perhaps if they were in a better state then you would find more empathetic views; in the meantime don't give up... You've contributed a lot to these forums and I'm sure have saved many people from the throes of madness. I still remember your responses to my thread many years ago and it has saved me from my anxiety. I always felt that even if people disagree with an idea, at least a seed is planted. Don't let it bother you too much =P

 

[Michael Leigh]

Lol don't let it get to you, I think a majority of those opposing you are weathering in their own storm right now and are seeing things through an emotional lens.

Perhaps if they were in a better state then you would find more empathetic views; in the meantime don't give up... You've contributed a lot to these forums and I'm sure have saved many people from the throes of madness. I still remember your responses to my thread many years ago and it has saved me from my anxiety. I always felt that even if people disagree with an idea, at least a seed is planted. Don't let it bother you too much =P

Thank you for our wise counsel @coffee_girl and for your kind words.
Michael