Tinnitus and TINNITUS
- Thread starter Dr. Nagler
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MemberI have no chip on my shoulder, I am being as respectful as a man can possibly be to two individuals who cannot see past there own ignorant world and opinions in thinking there is a one fix for everyone!
I'm not even going to address your points because they are plain wrong!
With the up most respect.
Regards Rich
Ok, a cure doesn't exist. There aren't any medications or surgeries. So, if habituation isn't an option, then what's the alternative?
Hey Matt. FWIW, at this point in time I would not recommend a habituation protocol for @RichL. It would not work for him until his decreased sound tolerance is effectively addressed.
Dr. Stephen Nagler
- Jun 26, 2014
- 2,264
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2013
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Drugs barotrauma
Yes Matt...you bring this up over and over...and you are right. But at the same time I'm not sure anyone is disputing this.
OK, maybe if you re-read my post but switch "ignoring" with "not reacting" you'll understand what I said better. I did not anticipate that you would find this difficult.
I don't recall saying that I knew how to treat that. Dr. Nagler simply said that habituation wouldn't work for you right now because of your sound sensitivity. And I was essentially saying that if that's the case, then hopefully you can get that addressed and treated.
I said hopefully you can get it treated. And I never said, "He should get that treated and I know exactly what he should do".
Perhaps what h2h suggested is what you should think about. I'm not expert in this, but Dr. Nagler makes a good point about those who suffer: if your current strategy/method is failing, then what's the harm in considering a method that has worked for someone else?
I was addressing you both because you seem to be agreeing with the good doc but pardon my mistake in addressing you.
I could get it treated quite easily but it would mean too greater sacrifice from my family and I would not ask or expect that from them at all, in fact I couldn't live with myself if I choose that path!
Who said that my current method isn't working?
I said it is hard living with what I have but I never said that my current method wasn't working, If you call me having a close to normal existence in the fact that I have a loving family, a good job that brings in a comfortable wage to live on and my health generally is good apart from the Tinnitus, then I would say my strategy is working except for the fact that I have to wear ear plugs everywhere I go.
It's not the life exactly how I wanted it but it's close except for this horrid noise, but I am living with it!
Rich
- Jun 26, 2014
- 2,264
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2013
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Drugs barotrauma
I'm listening...otherwise I wouldn't be responding.
I certainly hope so as well. According to @here2help there will be no fruit to bear even of this becomes a reality....
"The extent of a person's suffering with tinnitus has no relation to how loud it is, how soft it is, its pitch, it's so-called reactivity, its lack of predictability, or whether it is continuous or discontinuous"
Rich, earlier in this thread you referred to my "own ignorant world" and the points I have been trying to make, which you call "plain wrong" without any further explanation.
I am trying to take into account the fact that you are hurting, but it's tough to have compassion and understanding for somebody who is so incredibly rude.
Nevertheless ...
In terms of your decreased sound tolerance, the first thing I would do is get an accurate diagnosis. Decreased sound tolerance can be due to hyperacusis, misophonia, or both. I suspect in your case it's both, but that's just a hunch based on some of the things you have written in those postings of yours. You know, the ones you say I do not read.
Once a diagnosis has been established, if you were my patient, I would treat you in a manner consistent with that diagnosis. If the diagnosis were hyperacusis, I would suggest a carefully controlled purposeful desensitization protocol tailored to your LDL pattern, work situation, home environment, and lifestyle. And for your misophonia, if that were part of the picture, I would start with one of Dr. Jastreboff's music protocols and add in a good bit of cognitive behavioral therapy, which in my opinion is something you are sorely in need of.
You asked me what I would suggest. That's what I would suggest.
I would be very interested in what @here2help has to say on the subject - but he's been kicked around so much in this thread that I wouldn't blame him one bit for taking a hike.
Dr. Stephen Nagler
@RichL, there isn't a thing you can do about the volume of your tinnitus. It is what it is. You can continue to fetishize it and believe the loudness of your tinnitus makes you untreatable or not. That is up to you. You can continue to think about tinnitus in the language of daydreaming and tell yourself you would be fine if your tinnitus was half as loud. Of course you would be fine. The problem is when you think this way you are fantasizing. Your tinnitus is what it is. It isn't half as loud and it isn't going to magically become half as loud.
When I say the volume of tinnitus is immaterial, I'm not claiming you wouldn't feel much better if your tinnitus was less loud. I'm saying that thinking in these terms will get you nowhere. I'm also saying regardless of how loud tinnitus is, it doesn't preclude people from habituating it.
If you choose to hear this as positive thinking, knock yourself out. I detest positive thinking. You read what I wrote to you and think I'm handing out roses. I'm trying to tell you where the ladder is so in a year or two you can start to climb out of the hole you're in.
Till then.
here2help
When I say the volume of tinnitus is immaterial, I'm not claiming you wouldn't feel much better if your tinnitus was less loud. I'm saying that thinking in these terms will get you nowhere. I'm also saying regardless of how loud tinnitus is, it doesn't preclude people from habituating it.
If you choose to hear this as positive thinking, knock yourself out. I detest positive thinking. You read what I wrote to you and think I'm handing out roses. I'm trying to tell you where the ladder is so in a year or two you can start to climb out of the hole you're in.
Till then.
here2help
See thats the thing I wonder if you do, my decreased sound tolerance is due from my over use of ear plugs 24/7! misophonia slightly? maybe, so you see why I think you don't read my post's, you may read them but you don't seem to be taking it on board, A classic example of that is the psychologist who tells the patient that he can't understand "I HEAR WHAT YOU ARE SAYING"!
As far as being rude, I strongly disagree that I have ever been rude to you!
If you mean disagreed with then yes he has but if people get frightened and run just for being disagreed with, well, I don't know!
Rich
Of course your earplugs play into your problem. How and to what extent would be part of that diagnosis process I was talking about, and the controlled purposeful tailored desensitization protocol would have to take your earplugs into account.
Rich, every instinct I have told me not to bother responding to your inquiry regarding what I would suggest. I responded anyway - because I believe everybody deserves the benefit of the doubt.
I see that @here2help has also given you the benefit of the doubt by responding in another thread. You are very lucky in that he seems to have taken a personal interest in your well-being. Trust me when I say that is a precious gift. Treasure it.
Dr. Stephen Nagler
@here2help , I understand and accept what you are saying, the fact of the matter is that you cannot undo 24 years of band aids in one hour or even one year.
The volume of my Tinnitus was lower for 24 years and it never worried me that much, the worry for me was my psychological issue with louder than normal sound levels.
I could get it treated quite easily but it would mean too greater sacrifice from my family and I would not ask or expect that from them at all, in fact I couldn't live with myself if I choose that path!
I hate positive thinking as well, sorry if I mistook your post as a positive rant.
Rich
The volume of my Tinnitus was lower for 24 years and it never worried me that much, the worry for me was my psychological issue with louder than normal sound levels.
I could get it treated quite easily but it would mean too greater sacrifice from my family and I would not ask or expect that from them at all, in fact I couldn't live with myself if I choose that path!
I hate positive thinking as well, sorry if I mistook your post as a positive rant.
Rich
It is the whole problem as far as I can see!
Well I haven't the foggiest idea why, I have only disagreed with you, strongly at times yes, but I hardly think that warrants ignoring someone, but oh well whatever!
We shall see!
Regards Rich
- Jun 26, 2014
- 2,264
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2013
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Drugs barotrauma
Yes you are actually...
"The extent of a person's suffering with tinnitus has no relation to how loud it is, how soft it is, its pitch, it's so-called reactivity, its lack of predictability, or whether it is continuous or discontinuous"
Sorry mate...you are loosing credibility here fast...too bad everything wasn't in text huh?
Actually Rich, I agree that you seem to be coming off quite rude in many of your posts. Maybe it's not intentional but the exclamation point after nearly every sentence might be sending a different message than you intend.
If exclaiming what I'm trying to relay seems rude then I must apologize for using proper grammar when expressing my point of view.
When I am in deep discussion with anyone in person I do emphasize what I am saying because in my experience most people when in a discussion are only concerned with what they are saying and tend to not listen to anyone else, they may hear you but they are generally not listening to your point of view.
Exclamation point's missing.
Please stop sucking up to Dr. Nagler already, you've done it here and on Yuku, its really annoying.
I'm only saying this because I don't see Rich as being rude, maybe direct and blunt, but not rude! There is no reason to double team Rich.
It is @here2help who is provocating these types of responses by people who suffer by saying things like - none of your tinnitus characteristics matter at all, your tinnitus ain't @#$%ing special....and so on...That is rude and inconsiderate.
May I also add that here2help has ZERO audiology education, and ZERO medical education...If Dr.Nagler has a medical degree at least, here2help is really just a dude with tinnitus.
- Jun 26, 2014
- 2,264
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2013
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Drugs barotrauma
@here2help how can someone like you with such conflicting statements be trusted? And the scary thing is Dr nagler considers you an expert. This is just pain scary for T suffers that this is the best we get.
So where does the good doc get off telling me that heretohelp is offering me his expert advice then?
If this is correct then you have been dishonest with me @Dr. Nagler just for the sake of your argument!(oh shit there's that exclamation point again).
Thanks @dan , I have been told numerous time's that I can be quite blunt but straight to the point and fare.
Rich
Yes @Telis , I have just been informed that @here2help is no expert, so I would love to know what the F##k is going on, and why the good Doc considers him an expert! (oh shit, that exclamation point again)
Rich
...at least Dr.Nagler had a comeback with a "My Credentials" thread...
well you won't see one in this case.
well you won't see one in this case.
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