Tinnitus Began First Week of June 2020 After Wim Hof Breathing

[Renfrey]

I am taking both. I was actually taking Liposomal Glutathione before my tinnitus and NAC too on and off for a few months before. I have upped the dosage since.

The double whammy - I like it! Do you use pre-made capsules or pills? If so, you might try buying in bulk instead from a place like Bulk Supplements. The products are usually much less expensive than buying pre-made pills or capsules. They're also much more pure, no additives or fillers. The NAC I just bought from them is real pure looking, in crystal form. Tastes gnarly though. That's why I'm making my own capsules with it.

While any type of TCM Cordyceps might help, remember that the article I linked was specific to Cordyceps Sinensis. Upon further investigation there is a strong use of Cordyceps Sinensis in TCM for the treatment of tinnitus. I have read a few studies (I don't know how reliable they are) that showed Cordyceps could completely cure tinnitus and related symptoms especially when caused by the accumulation of fluid in the middle ear.

In reading a lot of these studies, one thing I find interesting is the symptoms of altitude sickness which is caused by hypoxia, extreme cold and high velocity wind (2/3 are relevant to WHM). Maybe we have some form of high altitude sickness?

Cordyceps sinensis Increases Hypoxia Tolerance by Inducing Heme Oxygenase-1 and Metallothionein via Nrf2 Activation in Human Lung Epithelial Cells

I'm working on getting some Cordyceps Sinensis and will add it to my treatment regimen.

@Renfrey, let us know if the shrooms help out at all.

It must be my lucky day, because Cordyceps Sinensis is exactly the one I have. Again, if you're looking for Cordyceps, I suggest going through a reputable organic wholesaler, rather than buying it pre-made or retail. I would tell you where I got my Cordyceps Sinensis, but after checking their site right now, they're only carrying Cordyceps Militaris.

But here it is anyway if you're interested in other things. This is my main herbal supplement connection.

https://mountainroseherbs.com/catalog/herbs-spices/bulk

Yeah, I'll let you know if the 'shroomples work.

 

[Lukee]

Yeah, I'll check it out, but I'm not sure what you mean by David Case thread. I looked up David Case and couldn't find anything. Do you have a link?

I don't know how to link to other threads but it's "I Invented a Sound That Knocked Out My Tinnitus". His site is TinnitusMix.com I believe.

Do you use pre-made capsules or pills?

I'm using premade pills from AOR. I think they are reputable all around brand but probably not as good as making yourself. Though I heard PharmaNAC or equivalent is the best because the capsules are individually packaged in a blister pack. It's important because NAC apparently oxides quickly and becomes less potent immediately. Once I'm done these might move on to the blister pack type.

Thanks for the link to the Cordyceps. I'll take a look. The most legit form include the caterpillar. While it's very gross, apparently that is the stuff that cures it all!

 

[Renfrey]

I don't know how to link to other threads but it's "I Invented a Sound That Knocked Out My Tinnitus". His site is TinnitusMix.com I believe.

OK, I found it. I didn't have time to go through all 87 pages of it though. His Tinnitus Mix sounds interesting, but he also notes that it's intended more for sound induced tinnitus. I listened to it for few minutes and it sounds real chaotic and erratic. Not that those sounds bother me if they lead to improvement. Just saying.

I'd joyfully listen to just about anything if it has been shown or known to help.

What do you think about his Tinnitus Mix?

Thanks for the link to the Cordyceps. I'll take a look. The most legit form include the caterpillar. While it's very gross, apparently that is the stuff that cures it all!

What?? Caterpillar in the shrooms?! I've never heard of that. The only thing that comes close to that in my mind is the worm at the bottom of a Mezcal bottle.

Actually, I was saying that the Mountain Rose Herbs Cordyceps link was not the right one, because they only carry Cordyceps Militaris right now.

For Cordyceps Sinensis, you might try Bulk Supplements again. $40 a kilo for Cordyceps Sinensis Extract is not a bad deal in my view. Sorry, it's probably worm free though.

 

[Lukee]

I've had a bad day. Two days of regression basically after feeling pretty good for about 5-6 days and seeing improvement. My tinnitus didn't seem to be improving much but the pressure was. Today, full clogged feeling and my ability to pop my ears seems to be like 10% at best. This is why I have been asking @MrC6688 if he has clogged feeling at all still... I'm not sure that without pressure we should be able to fully pop our ears but I certainly have an uncomfortable feeling.

I had a hearing test this morning and ear pressure test. As expected, everything came back normal and there is no hearing loss. I will be seeing the ENT and he will be doing visual inspection up my nose next week. I can't tell if the fullness is inflammation or damage to the ear like many other tinnitus sufferers have. Maybe we don't have ETD, maybe the feeling is because of damage to the cochlea.

What?? Caterpillar in the shrooms?!

Yeah! It's crazy right? If you look it up that's what true Cordyceps Sinensis are. They are found in the Himalayas and can cost up to $50,000/kg. I have started on some Cordyceps Militaris that I had in my cupboard today.

 

[Renfrey]

I've had a bad day. Two days of regression basically after feeling pretty good for about 5-6 days and seeing improvement. My tinnitus didn't seem to be improving much but the pressure was. Today, full clogged feeling and my ability to pop my ears seems to be like 10% at best. This is why I have been asking @MrC6688 if he has clogged feeling at all still... I'm not sure that without pressure we should be able to fully pop our ears but I certainly have an uncomfortable feeling.

I had a hearing test this morning and ear pressure test. As expected, everything came back normal and there is no hearing loss. I will be seeing the ENT and he will be doing visual inspection up my nose next week. I can't tell if the fullness is inflammation or damage to the ear like many other tinnitus sufferers have. Maybe we don't have ETD, maybe the feeling is because of damage to the cochlea.

Sorry man. I feel your pain. I don't have much pressure right now myself. My ear popping (clearing) situation seems rather normal right now too. In my opinion, it's normal to be able to pop or clear the ears with the yawn effect without there being any accompanying pressure. That's been my normal routine for years anyway.

It's kinda strange that you feel clogged/pressure, but yet your ear pressure test came back normal. Well, the great news is that your tests did come back normal.

I would say to stick to the sound therapy. At least that we know that brings marked relief. I'm of the opinion that the longer we listen to the sound therapy, the more lasting relief it will bring. That dude's YouTube channel from the video you provided has a great selection of sound therapy videos too.

Yeah! It's crazy right? If you look it up that's what true Cordyceps Sinensis are. They are found in the Himalayas and can cost up to $50,000/kg. I have started on some Cordyceps Militaris that I had in my cupboard today.

Yeah, I looked it up after you mentioned it. Insane! I guess that means we're sticking with standard poor man Sinensis and Militaris.

 

[Csani90]

Wow so many new posts and new members! I've have been spending less time with reading the forum as I tried to take my mind off the tinnitus and I had a busy time, but of course it is hard to forget about something which is present constantly, so here I am again, ready to share what I have experienced in the last month or so.

I had some improvements and setbacks with tinnitus. Since I would like to believe that the cause is overactive nervous system rather than the scary secondary endolymphatic hydrops, I started to do deep breaths with long exhalations. I use the Prana Breath app's Clear Mind breath pattern twice a day. I like it because it helps me to relax and be focused just like with the WHM, but not in that extreme way. After the 7 minute session I do meditation. Usually my thoughts are jazzy and hard to not get bundled in them, but after the session I am able to get to a very relaxed state of mind. If I can get to this state and I focus on the ringing then by focusing on it I can make it go very faint. It works almost every time. It does not disappear, but from let's say 4-5 goes down to 1 and instead of the eeee it will be more like a hiss. So this is very interesting and for me does support the overactive ANS theory. Btw, during the breathing session the eeeee stays the same, and with other breathing patterns where I have to hold my breath it can even get louder. So for me no more breath retention. Oh and after these meditation it stays like this for hours and then gets louder again. Of course as MrC mentioned we shouldn't focus on the ringing, but for me this helps not to in the long run.

So that was an improvement, but here comes the setback... Someone in the comments said he/she has a low vibration sound too. Well I have it too. I noticed it about a month ago at night, before going to bed. I lay there and heard some sound what sounded like a car's running engine on the street or a generator running in the distance. But it was none of them, I had to realise it is coming from my right ear. First it was only at nighttime and in complete silence but now I have noticed it in the daytime too. Now this one scares me. It is annoying and also comes with a physical sensation. It is like I feel the vibration too. It comes and goes and I have no idea why I have it. Just when I got used to the eeee I get this...

About the ear fullness. For most of the time it was fine, like I didn't even have it anymore, maybe sometime when I was out in the cold and my sinuses were a bit stuffed, but it went away the next day. But the damn crackling in the ears is still there. I'm not sure if I can pop them or not. I had to realise I don't really know what we mean about popping. I know I can open up my Eustachian tubes and make cold air go through them. I don't know how to explain how I do it, but I move around my jaw and inhale the the air inside my closed mouth... Does it make sense? Anyway I think I can open them up but it does not help with the crackling. Now the fullness feeling is back after a very terrific event. I thought my girlfriend had an accident, I had to call up the hospitals and for twenty minutes I was feeling frightful. My tinnitus spiked and the ear fullness came on hard. She was fine and I was relieved but since that event the ear fullness is present again. So another point to the stressed nervous system theory.

I have the Mometasone spray too. I will start it tomorrow. I'm very hopeful about it. Please share if you have any improvement from using it.

Ohh and about writing to Wim Hof about this. I really want to do this, although I don't think it would be easy to reach him with it and also I think it would hurt his brand if he would openly talk about his method causing tinnitus. So I don't think he would address our problem, but still I think it is worth a shot! What do you guys think about it? Can we do this somehow?

 

[Lukee]

Hey @Csani90, welcome back. I know what you mean about taking time off but I feel like we are all contributing to a common cause and hopefully we can solve this puzzle.

Glad to hear you've had some improvements and sorry to hear about the low pitch vibrations. I haven't had that issue but I have had a fluttering in my ears. It seemed to me that the fluttering was happening under extreme anxiety and would get worse the more anxious I became.

This really does all tie back to some form of stress... and it's funny you mention your traumatic event and ear fullness. I was extremely anxious when this first happened, I have been generally anxious as a result of the pandemic. For whatever reason, and I'm not sure if it's truly because the onset of tinnitus or because of WHM itself, my anxiety spiked for the first couple weeks with tinnitus shortly after starting WHM. As soon as I got really anxious is when the fullness came and never really left. Now for the last week or so, it was MUCH better. Some days, for 90% of the day, I didn't even notice any pressure or fullness. I was doing a lot of the breathing we have been talking about and started walking at night to clear my mind. Things were going well even though my tinnitus actually got a little more noticeable, then today, BAM, fullness is back. My anxiety spiked and I had some moments of cold tremors, similar to what I was feeling in the first couple weeks of onset. I was a little stressed the yesterday and this morning and I'm pretty sure it's one of, if not the reason, that the fullness returned full force.

Now, anxiety and ear pressure/tinnitus is a well documented phenomenon:

Ear Popping; Ear Pressure Anxiety Symptoms

I'm thinking that maybe we don't actually have ETD but an issue where the fight or flight has mad us more susceptible to these changes now. Maybe over time it will heal and we will go back to normal in terms of the pressure. It's also the reason I thought that LPR could be causing the fullness as LPR can also be caused by anxiety and stress.

I think we are going in the right direction and hopefully one of us will crack the code but I think more than anything, unfortunately, time will be the biggest healer.

 

[TimNitus]

Also, please try the single nostril breathing.

I started single nostril breathing and will report on effects.

In our case, that's not what's happening. Anyway, letting you all know so you don't make the same mistake I did.

I had a similar experience with a similar app like a month or so ago. But interesting that it has a common effect on us!

If I may recommend you a good solution that worked for me: try drone music instead. It helps me a lot with sleeping in, mostly just running it quietly in the background is enough. And it's not the type of music that attracts your attention. I also listen to it often during daytime as it has a very calming atmosphere. To name a few good albums:

Irezumi - Endurance
Hiemal - The Stars, The Snow, The Fire
Warmth - Life
Taiga Remains - Ribbons of Dust

You will easily find more that fit your liking easily in related. They are all similar but different. Some are more noise, some are more clean. Give them a try.

I'm very curious about the osteopath treatment. I forgot who mentioned it? But someone said their osteopath had reduced their tinnitus quite a bit with a certain treatment and it lasted a while. I really want to know the name of that treatment so I can contact an osteopath I know and ask him.

It was me going to an Osteopath. I did not visit her since then yet. My tinnitus had some short-lived increases lately but is overall on a level of 1. I however still trying to find more information on that nervous system link. I found a Physio who may or may not maybe possibly potentially would oversee me doing the WHM exercise?
I'm not sure how the Osteopath treatment was called. I'm sorry. I can ask her next time I visit her.

So that was an improvement, but here comes the setback... Someone in the comments said he/she has a low vibration sound too. Well I have it too. I noticed it about a month ago at night, before going to bed. I lay there and heard some sound what sounded like a car's running engine on the street or a generator running in the distance. But it was none of them, I had to realise it is coming from my right ear. First it was only at nighttime and in complete silence but now I have noticed it in the daytime too. Now this one scares me. It is annoying and also comes with a physical sensation. It is like I feel the vibration too. It comes and goes and I have no idea why I have it. Just when I got used to the eeee I get this...

Yeah, that one... I haven't got rid of it still. I would not say I can feel its vibration, but it definitely has more... eh... Substance than eeeeee noise. It is very weird sound. But I must admit that I'm slowly getting used to this one too.

 

[JONabes]

@Lukee, sorry to hear you had a bad day yesterday. Reading your post about the 'ear flutter' was like a eureka moment for me: it's something I've experienced for many years. It got really out of hand when I was on a course of opioids for a back injury 7 years ago and it's been giving me trouble ever since. Triggered by particular frequency sounds.

Last time I had a bout of ETD, TMJ (a disorder of the muscle surrounding the 'jaw joint') was proposed as a trigger for the ETD bout. I got a custom mouthpiece fitted, the dentist told me to wear it at night as well as when I was practicing piano - he thought I must be unconsciously clenching my teeth. I thought this was strange because I know I do it at night (I'm told anyway) but I'm sure I would notice myself clenching my teeth when I was awake.

Anyway reading about your perception of the ear fluttering made me realise that I DO tense my jaw joint when I'm concentrating/listening hard to something, just not to the extent that i fully grind my teeth. This feels like something that exacerbates and triggers my ear fullness/pain. I wondered if you might have experienced a similar thing (unconsciously tensing in the jaw joint muscles -TMJ-).

Also @Lukee + @MrC6688, I think I found an answer to the question of 'why do we get constant tinnitus at the same time as another tone that accompanies the pressure and pain' - it seems like any trauma/disruption to the ear or nerves that serve it induces your brain to stop 'filtering out' tinnitus is that is there all the time due to natural hearing loss. This isn't exactly a scientific study but as a layman's explanation it seems legit:

https://ashfordclinic.com/tinnitus

P.S. - reading about Psilocybin - I'd be very wary of hallucinogens as my normal daily cannabis use seems to be the thing that MOST exacerbates the tinnitus. A good reason for me to severely cut down (needed)! my guess is that it messes with your auditory perception and disrupts the ability for my brain to filter out the tinnitus.

 

[Lukee]

I had a similar experience with a similar app like a month or so ago. But interesting that it has a common effect on us!

This concerns me a bit. I haven't had the same thing happen but it's strange that noise is inducing this kind of response. If we had noise-induced tinnitus or hearing loss I could understand it as a sort of protection mechanism or something to get away from the noise but for our form of tinnitus it's strange. Are we stuck in overdrive and certain stimuli are invoking these types of responses? I guess it's something we should be aware of moving forward and it's crazy that Mr. C is still getting effects like this so many months later.

On a side note, after work last night I was stressed about the increased pressure and just felt generally unwell. I took a teaspoon of high concentrate NutraSea Fish Oil and proceeded to do some reading and research and just try to relax a bit. I ate a quick dinner then I asked the Mrs. if she could just massage my head for a few minutes. After about 2-3 minutes I heard some buzzing sound coming from the voices on TV. I started to freak out and ask her if she heard them and she said no. It was like every time the person spoke, there was a very slight buzzing, like a poor connection (this was actually someone speaking on the news over zoom). I started to panic a bit and went up to the speaker and played it again and again. Finally, she heard it too and I was relieved I wasn't going crazy or had a new type of tinnitus! Immediately after that I stopped the TV and realized something... my tinnitus was gone. Not lower or less noticeable, completely gone. I tried to listen for it in complete silence but I'm not sure whether or not it was there. If it was, it was pretty much nonexistent.

I don't know if it was the head massage and release of stress or the Fish Oil or a combination of the two but for about 5-10 minutes it was gone even though I was trying to focus on it. Slowly it came back into the picture though not super loud. I went for my nightly walk and when I came back it was pretty loud in volume but something a little different. It wasn't the usual high-pitched-16 kHz-TV-on-mute-whine, it was like a loud hiss. It felt like coming home to a quiet house after a day in a noisy environment or an night out at a club or bar. It was louder but different.

As I write this now. Even in complete silence, my tinnitus is low. I took a dose of the Fish Oil and vitamin C this morning as well as Glutathione. I did some 4-7-8 breathing while in the shower to help parasympathetic response and ended with a cold shower. I'm not sure if any one particular thing is helping but it seems better today than yesterday. Also, the pressure and clogged ears are much better. I woke up with some pressure/ear ache depending how I moved in bed as well as the usual tinnitus. It got louder as I started my day but has since gone down after the routine I mentioned above.

Ironically, Fish Oil does not just help with inflammation, it is also useful for parasympathetic response and vagal tone. So is acute cold exposure and obviously the breathing. I'm going to continue to try these things to increase vagal tone and calm down my body and see if it leads in the right direction.

 

[Lukee]

Thanks for your reply @JONabes. The fluttering scares me because it's extremely distracting. I have had it once or twice in the past and it's almost like water stuck in your ear. For me it was literally just a moment in the past and I never thought about it until now. For me it seems like something mechanical is causing it, I was able to induce it when taking a really deep breath for example.

I wondered if you might have experienced a similar thing (unconsciously tensing in the jaw joint muscles -TMJ-).

I believe that I have some form of TMJ as well. I do grind my teeth at night but have never really woken up with a sore jaw or anything so my dentist never spent much time remedying it; however, since this whole situation came up, I have been feeling sore jaw muscles time to time. Obviously the increased anxiety could be causing this and exacerbating symptoms even more.

it seems like any trauma/disruption to the ear or nerves that serve it induces your brain to stop 'filtering out' tinnitus is that is there all the time due to natural hearing loss.

I agree with this in many different cases of tinnitus but one thing that I noticed after @Renfrey mentioned it was that the pressure was/could be induced by stress/anxiety. Upon further investigating it, fullness and pressure seem to be a symptom of anxiety, as I've posted above. The mechanism might be the same to what you posted but in any case I'm thinking it's less likely ETD and more to do with stress/anxiety. The only thing I don't get is why once the fullness subsides does the tinnitus not go away, like in @MrC6688's case.

P.S. - reading about Psilocybin - I'd be very wary of hallucinogens as my normal daily cannabis use seems to be the thing that MOST exacerbates the tinnitus.

I've read about THC causing an increase in tinnitus. I was thinking of Psilocybin and Ketamine as a rewiring process. The only thing that I am a bit skeptical about is that it seems that the both invoke a sympathetic response which is the opposite to what we are looking for. I think that, maybe like WHM, by invoking the sympathetic response we can "balance" our ANS.

BTW, does your fluttering get worse under anxiety?

 

[Cernuto]

After reading this entire thread and after watching a few Wim Hoff videos I've come to the conclusion: Don't do the Wim Hoff Method.

I may be wrong about this, but it looks like Wim was suffering from deep depression and found a way to make himself feel 'alive' again by inducing the release of adrenaline in a hyperventilated state, transitioning to hypoxia.

No doubt his method has helped many people. The thing is we are not all the same and some of us on the more anxious, analytical side of life may not react in a desired way to the Wim Hoff Method. This may be the reason why some unfortunately develop or aggravate their tinnitus using WHM. Deliberate triggering of adrenaline release in an anxious person is in my opinion not a good idea. Those little glands sitting on top of your kidneys serve a crucial purpose and toying with them is probably not a good idea.

 

[MrC6688]

If I may recommend you a good solution that worked for me: try drone music instead. It helps me a lot with sleeping in, mostly just running it quietly in the background is enough. And it's not the type of music that attracts your attention. I also listen to it often during daytime as it has a very calming atmosphere. To name a few good albums:

Irezumi - Endurance
Hiemal - The Stars, The Snow, The Fire
Warmth - Life
Taiga Remains - Ribbons of Dust

Nice, I'll check them out!

 

[MrC6688]

So that was an improvement, but here comes the setback... Someone in the comments said he/she has a low vibration sound too. Well I have it too. I noticed it about a month ago at night, before going to bed. I lay there and heard some sound what sounded like a car's running engine on the street or a generator running in the distance. But it was none of them, I had to realise it is coming from my right ear. First it was only at nighttime and in complete silence but now I have noticed it in the daytime too. Now this one scares me. It is annoying and also comes with a physical sensation. It is like I feel the vibration too. It comes and goes and I have no idea why I have it. Just when I got used to the eeee I get this...

About the ear fullness. For most of the time it was fine, like I didn't even have it anymore, maybe sometime when I was out in the cold and my sinuses were a bit stuffed, but it went away the next day. But the damn crackling in the ears is still there. I'm not sure if I can pop them or not. I had to realise I don't really know what we mean about popping. I know I can open up my Eustachian tubes and make cold air go through them. I don't know how to explain how I do it, but I move around my jaw and inhale the the air inside my closed mouth... Does it make sense? Anyway I think I can open them up but it does not help with the crackling. Now the fullness feeling is back after a very terrific event. I thought my girlfriend had an accident, I had to call up the hospitals and for twenty minutes I was feeling frightful. My tinnitus spiked and the ear fullness came on hard. She was fine and I was relieved but since that event the ear fullness is present again. So another point to the stressed nervous system theory.

I have the Mometasone spray too. I will start it tomorrow. I'm very hopeful about it. Please share if you have any improvement from using it.

Ohh and about writing to Wim Hof about this. I really want to do this, although I don't think it would be easy to reach him with it and also I think it would hurt his brand if he would openly talk about his method causing tinnitus. So I don't think he would address our problem, but still I think it is worth a shot! What do you guys think about it? Can we do this somehow?

Welcome back @Csani90. Regarding the low humming noise you heard, did it sort of sound like when a speaker is blown and you hear that monotone hum? If so, I experienced that early on. It went away on its own. It happened to me when I woke up one morning a few weeks after my initial tinnitus bout. My right ear hurt, lots of pressure, and then the humming happened. Interestingly, after the humming incident the pressure started to decrease.

About the ear fullness and tinnitus, anxiety and stress definitely have an impact on them. I've experienced similar events as you're describing. If you get into a meditative state or are among friends, or in a situation where you aren't focusing on the tinnitus, you should hopefully see a decrease in that. I feel for you guys because I know exactly what the pressure feels like, and it sucks. It took me a few months for it to heal on its own and I still have the ears unpopping I'm dealing with. Hopefully the Flonase will help in that regard. Let me know how the Mometasone works for you.

Regarding writing Wim or getting in touch with him, I think it's a great idea if anyone can figure out how to get a hold of him. I gave up on trying to seek advice from WHM instructors etc, they were not helpful nor interested in lending any kind of support. At first, it angered me because I don't like dealing with cult-like mentalities but it led me to want to reach others in the same boat as myself and try to find solutions. Now, if we were able to reach Wim and ask him about our dilemma, I would think helping us (and MANY others) would only strengthen his brand, not hurt it. Think about it, if you created something and it was hurting people, you'd appear as a genuinely concerned person for wanting to correct any mistakes and help them, and in turn you might get people coming back to you or at the very least giving you positive advertising through word of mouth which would increase business. I mean, the cat's sort of out of the bag anyway at this point. Sticking his head in the sand or ignoring people isn't the best look. On that same note, if he refused to help, knowing people are getting hurt from his breathing method, I think it'd make him come off like a selfish a-hole. Just my .02 cents.

 

[Lukee]

After reading this entire thread and after watching a few Wim Hoff videos I've come to the conclusion: Don't do the Wim Hoff Method.

I may be wrong about this, but it looks like Wim was suffering from deep depression and found a way to make himself feel 'alive' again by inducing the release of adrenaline in a hyperventilated state, transitioning to hypoxia.

No doubt his method has helped many people. The thing is we are not all the same and some of us on the more anxious, analytical side of life may not react in a desired way to the Wim Hoff Method. This may be the reason why some unfortunately develop or aggravate their tinnitus using WHM. Deliberate triggering of adrenaline release in an anxious person is in my opinion not a good idea. Those little glands sitting on top of your kidneys serve a crucial purpose and toying with them is probably not a good idea.

Thanks @Cernuto, I think most of the members of this thread agree with you. Unfortunately, no one gave us the warning beforehand. It's a very depressing situation to be in because you think to yourself, it was just a breathing exercise and I was doing it to make myself feel better. If it was caused by a drug overdose I think I'd be less disappointed by it but the fact it was a self-help exercise makes it more unfortunate, at least for me.

It definitely goes to show how much we can influence our mind and bodies and how little we actually know about these types of processes and manipulations. The good news is, the body is ever-healing and usually tries to revert to homeostasis, though it could take months or years for this to happen. I believe we are on a long road to healing and hopefully non-western medicine can help us expedite our journey. It seems like Western medicine doesn't quite have the same understanding of the body/mind connection that some of these ancient practices have. I think we are too defined in our practice and specialization just makes it worse because one specialty does not correlate well with the next.

I am confident we will get some form of relief but it will take time and may never be 100% back to before but hopefully enough that we can live normal lives without the fear and anxiety that goes along with this experience.

 

[Renfrey]

After reading this entire thread and after watching a few Wim Hoff videos I've come to the conclusion: Don't do the Wim Hoff Method.

Rather than throwing the "baby out with the bathwater", I would say it more like: Don't do extreme breath holding while doing the Wim Hof Method.

 

[Lukee]

Regarding writing Wim or getting in touch with him, I think it's a great idea if anyone can figure out how to get a hold of him. I gave up on trying to seek advice from WHM instructors etc, they were not helpful nor interested in lending any kind of support. At first, it angered me because I don't like dealing with cult-like mentalities but it led me to want to reach others in the same boat as myself and try to find solutions. Now, if we were able to reach Wim and ask him about our dilemma, I would think helping us (and MANY others) would only strengthen his brand, not hurt it. Think about it, if you created something and it was hurting people, you'd appear as a genuinely concerned person for wanting to correct any mistakes and help them, and in turn you might get people coming back to you or at the very least giving you positive advertising through word of mouth which would increase business. I mean, the cat's sort of out of the bag anyway at this point. Sticking his head in the sand or ignoring people isn't the best look. On that same note, if he refused to help, knowing people are getting hurt from his breathing method, I think it'd make him come off like a selfish a-hole. Just my .02 cents.

Hey Mr C, I agree with you and @Csani90. I reached out to Scott Carney (the author of the Wim Hof biography book) asking who got tinnitus from WHM. He said he is working with medical experts to try and solve the phenomenon though I don't know how serious he is about it. I reached out to WHM and receive an email basically saying nothing and when I replied back, they had nothing to say.

I am very disappointed in Wim. From the outside, you hear his story and you think, this guy has found a hack that has made him better and he genuinely wants to help people in the same position. This seems to be further from the truth than ever. The "disease" we are now afflicted with is serious and causes many people to commit suicide. So no help coming from someone who experienced depression and the effects of suicide firsthand, it's absolutely reprehensible. I guess it all comes down to the mighty dollar for Wim and he hopes all this gets swept under the rug and his nutcase followers will silence and bash anyone who opposes their beliefs.

I will continue to try and reach out Scott Carney and see if that gets us anywhere. It seems like Wim doesn't actually have the answer and is just a BS artist but after so many years of practicing this and dealing with so many followers, maybe he has seen success of treatment by some of his followers.

 

[Lukee]

Rather than throwing the "baby out with the bathwater", I would say it more like: Don't do extreme breath holding while doing the Wim Hof Method.

I would agree with you, but the breath holds are the pivotal part of WHM along with the cold training. Without the breath holds you are just breathing and cold training I think.

 

[Renfrey]

I would agree with you, but the breath holds are the pivotal part of WHM along with the cold training. Without the breath holds you are just breathing and cold training I think.

True, during the breath holding is where we feel the full effect of the exercise. But I think that deep slow breathing on its own without breath holding is extremely beneficial as well.

I don't think for the cold training to be effective, it needs to be done in tandem with breath holding.

I think that similar (not exact) results can be achieved by substituting the breath holding part of the WHM with deep slow breathing.

I mean, through basic deep slow breathing, we are still taking in tons of oxygen and oxygenating the body, right?

That's just my opinion judging by the way these things feel.

 

[MrC6688]

Hey Mr C, I agree with you and @Csani90. I reached out to Scott Carney (the author of the Wim Hof biography book) asking who got tinnitus from WHM. He said he is working with medical experts to try and solve the phenomenon though I don't know how serious he is about it. I reached out to WHM and receive an email basically saying nothing and when I replied back, they had nothing to say.

I am very disappointed in Wim. From the outside, you hear his story and you think, this guy has found a hack that has made him better and he genuinely wants to help people in the same position. This seems to be further from the truth than ever. The "disease" we are now afflicted with is serious and causes many people to commit suicide. So no help coming from someone who experienced depression and the effects of suicide firsthand, it's absolutely reprehensible. I guess it all comes down to the mighty dollar for Wim and he hopes all this gets swept under the rug and his nutcase followers will silence and bash anyone who opposes their beliefs.

I will continue to try and reach out Scott Carney and see if that gets us anywhere. It seems like Wim doesn't actually have the answer and is just a BS artist but after so many years of practicing this and dealing with so many followers, maybe he has seen success of treatment by some of his followers.

You pretty much confirmed my worst suspicions. All the "feel good" BS from his videos is too good to be true in the end. I know what suckered me in was all of the promotional material they kept emailing me, 1-2 videos of him undergoing testing in order to prove his method's efficacy, and other interviews I'd seen of him. I tried the WHM when I was vulnerable to such promotions, meaning I was paranoid about having to commute back into the city with COVID-19 raging last summer and I fell for Wim's snake oil. So if he can't come up with ways to heal the tinnitus, investigate reasons for it happening, and doesn't want to even address the tinnitus, we have our answer... he's a selfish, money grubbing, a-hole narcissist. What he's basically doing is copying yogic breathing techniques, adding his own spin, and selling it as a self-improvement method without any concern for those getting harmed. It's reckless and reprehensible.

And I don't want to hear any of his hardcore nutcases tell me it's an "extreme form of exercise" and if we can't hack it, then stop whining. I've seen enough of those idiots on other forums.

Sorry for my angry rant, I just hate when people pull this crap and harm others without caring.

With that said, sure... why not, we should all try to reach out to this person you mentioned, Scott Carney. And even try to reach out to Wim himself and see where it gets us. Please let us know how you got in touch with them. If more of us do it, maybe something will happen. Doubtful, but you never know. And if it gets us the same type of disinterested response, we make our voices heard to others so they don't fall into the same trap we did.

I do believe in the body's ability to heal itself. People have come back from much worse. I would encourage us to read into neuroplasticity and see if there are any interesting theories we can apply.

 

[Lukee]

You pretty much confirmed my worst suspicions. All the "feel good" BS from his videos is too good to be true in the end. I know what suckered me in was all of the promotional material they kept emailing me, 1-2 videos of him undergoing testing in order to prove his method's efficacy, and other interviews I'd seen of him. I tried the WHM when I was vulnerable to such promotions, meaning I was paranoid about having to commute back into the city with COVID-19 raging last summer and I fell for Wim's snake oil. So if he can't come up with ways to heal the tinnitus, investigate reasons for it happening, and doesn't want to even address the tinnitus, we have our answer... he's a selfish, money grubbing, a-hole narcissist. What he's basically doing is copying yogic breathing techniques, adding his own spin, and selling it as a self-improvement method without any concern for those getting harmed. It's reckless and reprehensible.

And I don't want to hear any of his hardcore nutcases tell me it's an "extreme form of exercise" and if we can't hack it, then stop whining. I've seen enough of those idiots on other forums.

Sorry for my angry rant, I just hate when people pull this crap and harm others without caring.

With that said, sure... why not, we should all try to reach out to this person you mentioned, Scott Carney. And even try to reach out to Wim himself and see where it gets us. Please let us know how you got in touch with them. If more of us do it, maybe something will happen. Doubtful, but you never know. And if it gets us the same type of disinterested response, we make our voices heard to others so they don't fall into the same trap we did.

I do believe in the body's ability to heal itself. People have come back from much worse. I would encourage us to read into neuroplasticity and see if there are any interesting theories we can apply.

I agree with you. As a matter of fact, if you look up Vipassana and tinnitus you will find many stories like ours. So these breathing techniques can clearly cause tinnitus for whatever reason.

With that being said, I have been investigating VNS (vagus nerve stimulation) and it's incredible how many conditions focus around the ANS. What I have read a few times is even with an implanted VNS device, seizure sufferers can require up to 2 years before they have any noticeable improvements (this was using implanted VNS device for seizure relief I think for epileptics). The point is that increasing vagal tone and increasing the parasympathetic response seems like a long term plan and we should expect to spend many months doing this before really seeing noticeable improvements but I do think they will come with time.

Neuroplasticity is one of the reasons I have been researching Ketamine and Psilocybin. I think they could help to rewire the brain. There are quite a few accounts of people curing tinnitus by using Psilocybin and I believe our type of tinnitus is best suited for that therapy. I will dig in a little more and let you know what I find. A friend of mine is trying to hook me up with a well-respected shaman out of Costa Rica. I'll keep you all in the loop.

 

[MrC6688]

Interesting article on reducing sympathetic tone:

Tinnitus, Hyperacusis, and the Autonomic Nervous System

 

[Lukee]

Interesting article on reducing sympathetic tone:

Tinnitus, Hyperacusis, and the Autonomic Nervous System

Great article. It's another piece of evidence that solidifies the ANS theory. What I hadn't read before is just how prevalent sympathetic dominance was for tinnitus sufferers in general. It makes sense and predisposes everyone with tinnitus to higher levels of anxiety, depression and other comorbidities.

Reading into ANS disorders and the like, it's interesting to see just how many chronic conditions are related back to reduced vagal tone. It's a new area of research that has been expanding over the last decade where they are using VNS to alleviate things like rheumatoid arthritis and Crohn's disease as well as many other inflammatory diseases.

 

[Renfrey]

I agree with you. As a matter of fact, if you look up Vipassana and tinnitus you will find many stories like ours. So these breathing techniques can clearly cause tinnitus for whatever reason.

Hi Lukee,

Thanks for bringing up Vipassana. But after looking it up, I'm not seeing much connection between Vipassana breathing and Wim Hof breathing. From what I've read, Vipassana breathing is basically mindful breathing with no breath holding at all.

Are we suggesting now that mindful meditation and breathing can be causes of tinnitus?

Or maybe that those people who have been afflicted after doing Vipassana have some sort of underlying condition that made them susceptible to it?

Anyway, I'm not seeing the stressed breathing techniques in Vipassana as I do in the WHM.

What do you think?

 

[Renfrey]

Interesting article on reducing sympathetic tone:

Tinnitus, Hyperacusis, and the Autonomic Nervous System

Yeah, I agree with Lukee. Great article! Thanks for providing. I think that article helps explain and confirm the direction that we're going in.

 

[Lukee]

Anyway, I'm not seeing the stressed breathing techniques in Vipassana as I do in the WHM.

Hey Renfrey, I was just providing general insight. I wasn't entirely sure the mechanism but a lot of Vipassana followers who have been afflicted by tinnitus also complained of pressure build up in their face. I am ignorant to the correlation between the two but maybe Vipassana is activating sympathetic response like WHM. I've read a couple threads where the breathing is pretty aggressive but again, I don't know first hand. I just thought it was interesting to see other breathing techniques causing these issues.

 

[Renfrey]

Hey Renfrey, I was just providing general insight. I wasn't entirely sure the mechanism but a lot of Vipassana followers who have been afflicted by tinnitus also complained of pressure build up in their face. I am ignorant to the correlation between the two but maybe Vipassana is activating sympathetic response like WHM. I've read a couple threads where the breathing is pretty aggressive but again, I don't know first hand. I just thought it was interesting to see other breathing techniques causing these issues.

OK. Roger that. Thanks for 'splaining.

 

[Renfrey]

Interesting article on reducing sympathetic tone:

Tinnitus, Hyperacusis, and the Autonomic Nervous System

I like how that article recommends a variety of different sound therapies. From high pitched tones to isochoric, monaural and binaural beats, as well as music.

 

[MrC6688]

I like how that article recommends a variety of different sound therapies. From high pitched tones to isochoric, monaural and binaural beats, as well as music.

Yea, I was very interested in that as well. Have you guys tried any of these for tinnitus: High pitched tones, isochoric, monaural, and binaural beats? I know what binaural beats are but what are isochoric and monaural tones?

By the way, I received an email from the people at AudioNotch and they gave me a full refund. So, that was good. I wish I had a more positive response to their sound files honestly because the reviews did look promising.

 

[Lukee]

My friend spoke with a doctor on my behalf today. She focuses on general health and well-being and a lot of mind-body type stuff. My friend told her I got tinnitus from doing WHM. Her first words were "WHM is too intense to be doing in the middle of a pandemic" the very next thing she said was "tinnitus is a sign of autonomic stress" and then followed up by saying "he needs to increase his vagal tone."

When I saw the messages I was a little surprised that without any context, without any explanation, she jumped to that conclusion. It's like she was confident in her answer and knew 100% the cause. It makes me hopeful that this seems to be the cause and hopefully we are able to return to homeostasis with our ANS. I think that, at least for myself, having a sympathetic dominant ANS predisposes you to these types of unintended results from practicing WHM. My hope is that it isn't permanent what we have done in toying with the ANS and we can rebalance it.