Tinnitus from Wellbutrin — Now My Tinnitus Is Gone

[Arahant]

Yeah, I already got a physical therapy scheduled at 7 January. Also changed my insurance to maximum physical therapy, that will be active in 2020.

I think chiropractors are only good at the level they reside, but there is a risk involved, so I wouldn't let them crack my neck, but merely let them make an x-ray and check at c1 - c3, since I can modulate my tinnitus due to pushing my head backwards with my palm. I hear a crackling sound at c1 - c3 and my tinnitus as a whole changes. Also I did a stretch from Dr. Mandell, it was for c1. By that stretch I could modulate the birds chirping sound at my own will. that's why I want some experts to look at c1 - c2 and maybe c3.

Do you have sore/painful muscles on your neck? Always pain in my neck, 2 weeks ago I sprained my neck muscle by just bending forward and looking to the left. After this I couldn't move my head from left to right for 10 days, now it's healed, but it still feels like a weak spot.

A neutral position, like laying on my back and sleeping brings my tinnitus to my baseline. My baseline is a roaring ocean of static noise and bird chirps in the background, without the high pitched one. But my tinnitus changes like 20 times per day, mostly the high pitched ones do what they like. Just by walking I can feel it change.

Have you noticed that Dr. Mandel is a chiropractor but his videos is much more related to exercises and stretches than cracking? It is much more physical therapy work.

Bob and Brad also has a lot of videos about neck problems.



Take care of neck pain is a good option. The American Tinnitus Association recognizes neck problems as one of causes of tinnitus.

 

[Tybs]

I've read the horror stories here, I would rather only have and x-ray and some advice and that will be it. Just to be safe and to be sure there is no misalignment of c1 - c3 or artritis.

I didn't know chiro's do x-ray? Over here, only hospitals or certain scan providers take care of that.

 

[Tybs]

Take care of neck pain is a good option. The American Tinnitus Association recognizes neck problems as one of causes of tinnitus.

I wish they acknowledged that here... I didn't get any neck investigations before I developed neck pains as well. Then x-ray suddenly was no problem anymore

 

[Arahant]

I wish they acknowledged that here... I didn't get any neck investigations before I developed neck pains as well. Then x-ray suddenly was no problem anymore

At least it is shown at the website,
https://www.ata.org/understanding-facts/causes


But the majority of Tinnitus problems are due to hearing loss, due to trauma, disease, etc. Neck/TMJ problems are a small percentage. Do you still have Tinnitus? Was it due to neck / TMJ/ muscle pain?

 

[Davey]

Have you noticed that Dr. Mandel is a chiropractor but his videos is much more related to exercises and stretches than cracking? It is much more physical therapy work.

Bob and Brad also has a lot of videos about neck problems.



Take care of neck pain is a good option. The American Tinnitus Association recognizes neck problems as one of causes of tinnitus.

Thanks for the video.

Whenever I do this stretch and tapping:

I get these scary and weird sensation where a static sound comes forward and into the foreground. Then I sorta get this panic attack, because it's very loud and can hear it over my computer with 5+ fans. But it goes away after 20 seconds. It such a weird thing to happen, but the harder I tap, the louder and longer it stays.

 

[Tybs]

Do you still have Tinnitus? Was it due to neck / TMJ/ muscle pain?

Still have it, but physio and neck exercises reduced the complaints from 8/10 to 0-3/10. It started right after I fell down the stairs. My neck pain is quite recent though, in multiple places and slowly increasing.

 

[Davey]

UPDATE: My high pitched tinnitus is now more in the background, that specific tone went from a 10 to a 6. The flutter type of static noise is more to the foreground, probably had to do with that stretch and tapping. But the overal level is now 8 out of 10, because I can't barely hear it over the sound of the blowing fans in my computer, only when I focus on it than I know its there.

 

[Arahant]

Still have it, but physio and neck exercises reduced the complaints from 8/10 to 0-3/10. It started right after I fell down the stairs. My neck pain is quite recent though, in multiple places and slowly increasing.

I hope you get better after more PT exercises.

 

[Arahant]

UPDATE: My high pitched tinnitus is now more in the background, that specific tone went from a 10 to a 6. The flutter type of static noise is more to the foreground, probably had to do with that stretch and tapping. But the overal level is now 8 out of 10, because I can't barely hear it over the sound of the blowing fans in my computer, only when I focus on it than I know its there.

Do you spend much time on the computer? Texting on a smartphone is a hell for neck problems too.
Since you can clearly see how your sore neck muscles are related to your loud Tinnitus, stretches and PT is worth a try... if that stretch with tapping is making you panic, just skip it, anxiety/adrenaline just makes your muscles tight. When I got extreme muscle stiffness and jaw clenching from Wellbutrin, I got really loud sounds. After quit taking it, spikes had become less frequent, and the static type noise went to background. And it is basically zero now, I have to push hard my neck muscles in a silent room to notice it.

 

[Davey]

Do you spend much time on the computer? Texting on a smartphone is a hell for neck problems too.
Since you can clearly see how your sore neck muscles are related to your loud Tinnitus, stretches and PT is worth a try... if that stretch with tapping is making you panic, just skip it, anxiety/adrenaline just makes your muscles tight. When I got extreme muscle stiffness and jaw clenching from Wellbutrin, I got really loud sounds. After quit taking it, spikes had become less frequent, and the static type noise went to background. And it is basically zero now, I have to push hard my neck muscles in a silent room to notice it.

I'm spending allot of time behind my pc, it's my job and my hobby. As I can remember I never had a good posture, through my whole life. Always have hunched shoulders and forward head posture.

With the spikes, I'm now in the same boat. I normally get like 6 spikes per day, but now maybe 1 and this only happends when my posture is bad again.

I have to push hard my neck muscles in a silent room to notice it. Tinnitus is such a weird phenenomen, just by merely the muscles it can be generated.

And what about exercising? 3 days ago I did go to the gym and tinnitus was at level 10 again and I felt pain near the traps and neck muscle.

 

[Tybs]

And what about exercising? 3 days ago I did go to the gym and tinnitus was at level 10 again and I felt pain near the traps and neck muscle.

Can't say much about exercising (not that active myself), but since stretching can trigger a spike while reducing symptoms in the long run, I assume exercising could work similar. Right after activity, muscles get weak/sore, but after healing and a bit of stretching again, they're stronger and can handle more pressure. Might result in symptom reduction as well, but I'm not completely sure: I can imagine that a strong muscle would actually need more stretching than an average one.

A bit of pain is normal, as long as it does not drag on week after week.

 

[Davey]

Can't say much about exercising (not that active myself), but since stretching can trigger a spike while reducing symptoms in the long run, I assume exercising could work similar. Right after activity, muscles get weak/sore, but after healing and a bit of stretching again, they're stronger and can handle more pressure. Might result in symptom reduction as well, but I'm not completely sure: I can imagine that a strong muscle would actually need more stretching than an average one.

A bit of pain is normal, as long as it does not drag on week after week.

Exercising did gave me some minor pain around the neck and traps. That specific day my tinnitus was very intrusive. The stretching where I can modulate a specific static noise, has a much different feel too it. It's like my background chirping/static/whooshing/crackling goes to the foreground after tapping. It feels like it's taking over and than it goes to the background, to its old level. It's a soft chirping/static/whooshing/crackling sound that increases. I still can't place it why this happends.

How are you doing with your tinnitus and how much is the reduction now? Besides that do you still get some occasionally spikes?

 

[Tybs]

How are you doing with your tinnitus and how much is the reduction now? Besides that do you still get some occasionally spikes?

Due to my current neck pain, I stopped stretching for the moment: I'm still awaiting my x-ray results. Christmas obviously delays those a bit (doctors need free days too ). My T has pretty much stayed within the 0-3 fluctuation. Right now I hardly hear it while sitting in the (quiet) hearing room, so I consider it to be at 1. Yesterday when I went to bed it was a bit louder (3), as I had quite an intensive day with Christmas activities (family kids yelling, restaurant etc.). Wasn't really a problem though, since I'm quite used to the sound, it didn't disturb me during the day itself, and I pretty much felt asleep the moment I laid down in bed. The neck pains caused more concerns, but the day in general was a good one.

My toothbrush also still gives a 10 minute spike on my left side, but I find the phenomena more interesting than disturbing...

 

[Davey]

Due to my current neck pain, I stopped stretching for the moment: I'm still awaiting my x-ray results. Christmas obviously delays those a bit (doctors need free days too ). My T has pretty much stayed within the 0-3 fluctuation. Right now I hardly hear it while sitting in the (quiet) hearing room, so I consider it to be at 1. Yesterday when I went to bed it was a bit louder (3), as I had quite an intensive day with Christmas activities (family kids yelling, restaurant etc.). Wasn't really a problem though, since I'm quite used to the sound, it didn't disturb me during the day itself, and I pretty much felt asleep the moment I laid down in bed. The neck pains caused more concerns, but the day in general was a good one.

My toothbrush also still gives a 10 minute spike on my left side, but I find the phenomena more interesting than disturbing...

Maybe you're pressing your brush too hard on your teeth?

I also found I could modulate my high pitch tinnitus that went away this week. By pressing the back of my head forward, but you have to restrict the movement, so your neck muscles will tense up. Then I'm getting a soft high pitched sound back.

Back in the days I tried pulling the scalena muscle in my neck, just for research purposes and the next morning my 2500 hz tone, in both ears, was gone. It was replace with a 4000 hz tone, and only on the right. After a half day it was back to normal. But I was still skeptic about it and thought it was not due too this. So I'm going to try again.

It's this muscle:

 

[Tybs]

I honestly wonder why hardly any research is done on the effect of muscles on sound perception. It's a small subcategory of T cases of course, but in comparison, it is relatively easy to map the effects and determine paths of action...

 

[Davey]

I honestly wonder why hardly any research is done on the effect of muscles on sound perception. It's a small subcategory of T cases of course, but in comparison, it is relatively easy to map the effects and determine paths of action...

There is a few research done and with positive outcome too:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4803736/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3129953/

My main problem here is whenever I go to a ETN-specialist in the Netherlands they just look at my eardrum and say I don't got any earwax in their. Then I tell them that I can modulate my tinnitus by these specific movements (and now thanks to you guys I found more ways to do it) and he would just look into my eyes and tell me: Yeah there are a few people who are capable of it, but we don't know why. Then I ask them why don't you try to find out why, but they then look angry at me and come with a TRT-solution.

So I forced an ENT-specialist to send me to UMC+ Maastricht and I'm waiting for a response from them. They tend to have better tinnitus specialists and hopefully they will listen to me and start testing. I don't mind being a guinea pig, measure my brain and test my neck/jaw and see what changes.

 

[Tybs]

There is a few research done and with positive outcome too:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4803736/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3129953/

My main problem here is whenever I go to a ETN-specialist in the Netherlands they just look at my eardrum and say I don't got any earwax in their. Then I tell them that I can modulate my tinnitus by these specific movements (and now thanks to you guys I found more ways to do it) and he would just look into my eyes and tell me: Yeah there are a few people who are capable of it, but we don't know why. Then I ask them why don't you try to find out why, but they then look angry at me and come with a TRT-solution.

So I forced an ENT-specialist to send me to UMC+ Maastricht and I'm waiting for a response from them. They tend to have better tinnitus specialists and hopefully they will listen to me and start testing. I don't mind being a guinea pig, measure my brain and test my neck/jaw and see what changes.

It's almost like I'm reading my own story . The attitude of ENT's here completely baffles me. Diagnosis and treatment is handled like factory work:
1. Patient comes in
2. Investigate (and clean) ears
3. Do audiogram (and sometimes other tests)
4. No hearing loss? Suggest TRT.

What do you mean, other symptoms? Posture? Modulation, moments of silence? Triggered by fall? So what, you hear sounds, therefore its either your ears or your brain. Get out so I can continue my factory steps.

I'm probably exaggerating a bit, but you get the idea. I understand that an ENT has no knowledge about other areas of the body, and I don't blame him for it: but he is the second in line a patient comes to when T occurs. He should at least know about possible other causes, so that he can refer the patient to the appropriate specialist if certain symptoms are mentioned.

Patients aren't faulty products or buggy programs, they are people. Their lifes get seriously wrecked when they encounter this phenomena, and it's your job to help them get better. Read about new insights once in a while instead of being stuck in a loop...

 

[Tybs]

So I forced an ENT-specialist to send me to UMC+ Maastricht and I'm waiting for a response from them.

Let me know about the outcome! I'm curious about the way of working there: I considered seeing a specialist in that area as well, but since it's a bit far away, I haven't done it yet.

I have an appointment in Groningen though, to get my jaw/head checked out. Apparently they have quite some experience in that area, and since I developed a few minor symptoms in the jaw as well, I don't mind getting a second opinion to completely exclude the jaw as a variable: plus, they might have some valuable insights in other areas that I might not know about yet

 

[Davey]

Let me know about the outcome! I'm curious about the way of working there: I considered seeing a specialist in that area as well, but since it's a bit far away, I haven't done it yet.

I have an appointment in Groningen though, to get my jaw/head checked out. Apparently they have quite some experience in that area, and since I developed a few minor symptoms in the jaw as well, I don't mind getting a second opinion to completely exclude the jaw as a variable: plus, they might have some valuable insights in other areas that I might not know about yet

You're probably on point about the factory process these ENT-specialists follow. They even don't want to look at my inner ear.

I'm looking forward with your results at groningen. Mine will take a while, first I need to receive an invite and there is a waiting list. Hopefully they will listen to our findings.

 

[Tybs]

I'm looking forward with your results at groningen.

I'm heading there Jan 21th: I'll keep you posted when I have an update.

 

[Davey]

I'm heading there Jan 21th: I'll keep you posted when I have an update.

Thanks!

Have a good new years eve and hopefully 2020 will bring us closer to a solution , or at least an understanding why.

 

[Tybs]

Thanks!

Have a good new years eve and hopefully 2020 will bring us closer to a solution , or at least an understanding why.

Thx, same to you!

 

[Arahant]

It's almost like I'm reading my own story . The attitude of ENT's here completely baffles me. Diagnosis and treatment is handled like factory work:
1. Patient comes in
2. Investigate (and clean) ears
3. Do audiogram (and sometimes other tests)
4. No hearing loss? Suggest TRT.

What do you mean, other symptoms? Posture? Modulation, moments of silence? Triggered by fall? So what, you hear sounds, therefore its either your ears or your brain. Get out so I can continue my factory steps.

I'm probably exaggerating a bit, but you get the idea. I understand that an ENT has no knowledge about other areas of the body, and I don't blame him for it: but he is the second in line a patient comes to when T occurs. He should at least know about possible other causes, so that he can refer the patient to the appropriate specialist if certain symptoms are mentioned.

Patients aren't faulty products or buggy programs, they are people. Their lifes get seriously wrecked when they encounter this phenomena, and it's your job to help them get better. Read about new insights once in a while instead of being stuck in a loop...

It is pretty much the same in the USA,
Aside from costing me $420 even if I had insurance and I was at a "in-network" provider.
My ENT visit was exactly the four steps above.
I had two recommendations during the visit. I could choose between go for a TRT at the Tinnitus Clinic of the medical center, and spend thousands or if my T was not bothering me much. I could buy a noise machine to help me "mask my T" during bedtime.

So, I gave up and tried to stretch and reduce my neck pain. So, today my T is basically zero.

 

[Tybs]

It is pretty much the same in the USA,
Aside from costing me $420 even if I had insurance and I was at a "in-network" provider.
My ENT visit was exactly the four steps above.
I had two recommendations during the visit. I could choose between go for a TRT at the Tinnitus Clinic of the medical center, and spend thousands or if my T was not bothering me much. I could buy a noise machine to help me "mask my T" during bedtime.

So, I gave up and tried to stretch and reduce my neck pain. So, today my T is basically zero.

I choose to believe that doctors honestly want to make people healthy again, but instances like this make it a bit hard sometimes. I suppose it's simply a lack of knowledge, which of course can happen in all jobs. At least I hope that's the case...

 

[Shaz1]

I suspect my Wellbutrin induced tinnitus is from the ototoxicity more than anything else (since I've been off it for 8 months and it's no better, and when it happened I had a lot of head and ear pressure initially)
Weird how the same medicine can cause such different reactions in people

 

[Arahant]

I suspect my Wellbutrin induced tinnitus is from the ototoxicity more than anything else (since I've been off it for 8 months and it's no better, and when it happened I had a lot of head and ear pressure initially)
Weird how the same medicine can cause such different reactions in people

Wellbutrin can induce bruxism/jaw clenching and muscle stiffness/spasms. Sore jaw/neck muscles are known to cause sensorineural tinnitus.

 

[Arahant]

Shaz1,

"head and ear pressure" might be related to occipital muscles getting quite tight.
And they are close to the ear.

 

[Shaz1]

That's fair, but do you think tightness would persist even 8 months after stopping the medicine? I suppose no harm trying the stretches anyway and seeing if it helps though.

 

[Davey]

I'm heading there Jan 21th: I'll keep you posted when I have an update.

My first update, I went to physiotherapist that's specialized in orofacial physiotherapist and manual therapy. He saw that I have a leg length difference of 2.5 centimetres. Because of this everything in my body is not in line and it's not possible for me to walk straight and neutrally for my spine/neck/head. My hips, pelvis, shoulders and neck are all shifted and this is constantly straining my neck muscles. Besides that I walk like a 'penguin', I fall to the right and by compensating that difference I lean back to the left. I do feel my tinnitus change when I'm walking rigoureus.

A great example:

 

[Davey]

Shaz1,

"head and ear pressure" might be related to occipital muscles getting quite tight.
And they are close to the ear.

View attachment 34282

by stretching these muscles I get a relieve from my high pitch tinnitus, but I get in return a static noise. Better than that pitch