Tinnitus Retraining Therapy
- Thread starter Jim
- Start date
MemberYea - perhaps you're right.
How about 'we let the liars, cheats and scammers get away with it?'
Michael01
Member
I have bad tinnitus. I suspect it's a result of using loud headphones over a number of years, although I'm not sure about that, as I have a serious problem with chronic migraine headaches and my tinnitus and my headaches started at about the same time, along with a bowel disorder of some kind that causes my nerves to "tingle" all hours of the day and night. Anyway initially I went and purchased a Neuromonics device, after some frantic searching as my ENT was not helpful in the slightest, so I set Neuromonics to mask out the noise and left it at that.
Then my ears started producing high-pitched sounds that the device could not mask out, and which were only controlled using both my headphones at high volume along with Neuromonics. Then the Neuromonics device broke and given that this was about the 6th time that it had broken I decided not to have it repaired but instead look for a alternative.
Which brings me to the present. I'm trying TRT using Oticon Ruby devices and the noises in my ears shows no signs of abating in the slightest, which make me feel extremely frustrated to listen to this high-pitched buzzing 24/7.
How do I know whether TRT is working or not? I see my audiologist once a week to discuss results and am booked in for Cognitive Behavioural Therapy with my local physiologist, which I've been advised could take me up to 2 months to see, but apart from that I'm very much feeling alone and isolated.
I do plan to have my headaches looked at by an Interventional Neuroradiologist, just to eliminate any possibility of my headaches contributing to this, as I've been noticing my ears have been picking up sounds no-one else can hear, such as my breathing in a high-pitched wheezing sound, which further annoys me.
Then my ears started producing high-pitched sounds that the device could not mask out, and which were only controlled using both my headphones at high volume along with Neuromonics. Then the Neuromonics device broke and given that this was about the 6th time that it had broken I decided not to have it repaired but instead look for a alternative.
Which brings me to the present. I'm trying TRT using Oticon Ruby devices and the noises in my ears shows no signs of abating in the slightest, which make me feel extremely frustrated to listen to this high-pitched buzzing 24/7.
How do I know whether TRT is working or not? I see my audiologist once a week to discuss results and am booked in for Cognitive Behavioural Therapy with my local physiologist, which I've been advised could take me up to 2 months to see, but apart from that I'm very much feeling alone and isolated.
I do plan to have my headaches looked at by an Interventional Neuroradiologist, just to eliminate any possibility of my headaches contributing to this, as I've been noticing my ears have been picking up sounds no-one else can hear, such as my breathing in a high-pitched wheezing sound, which further annoys me.
TRT is proven not to work for pain hyperacusis/noxacusis, right? Any success story I see for hyperacusis that involves sound therapy was a mild case and just loudness hyperacusis.
Are pain hyperacusis/noxacusis sufferers screwed till regenerative medicine?
Are pain hyperacusis/noxacusis sufferers screwed till regenerative medicine?
Michael01
Member
I know of at least one ENT that offers hyperaccusis management services. I guess it would depend on the patient's level of hyperacusis severity.
- May 2, 2020
- 202
- Tinnitus Since
- 01/2019 T, 04/2020 H
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Headphones/Car Alarm/Immune Response?
Pretty much. That being said there are a ton of stories on here and elsewhere of people that recovered within 1-2 years. I've seen some say they had another event and slipped back into it though.
I remain convinced that hyperacusis is simpler than tinnitus and thus can be solved with some kind of neurotransmitter inhibitor/inducer or specialized anti-inflammatory drug. I point to the efficacy of trobalt, benzos, and to a lesser extent alcohol as evidence.
While TRT may work for some people, it still doesn't remove all of the limitations tinnitus puts on your life.
In modern days it's going to make you extremely anxious and exhausted to look after every possible source of loud noise.
Not to mention how hard is it when you are in your teens and you are an aspiring musician.
Sound enrichment can be brought to you by yourself (earphones are cheap these days, and how do they differ from in-ear maskers?), and there's no point in paying someone just to be told that you have to learn to live with it and have positive mindset. That's something you already know and even if you don't, you'll learn it very soon.
I feel this whole TRT thing is just another way of emptying wallets of chronic suferrers.
Tl;dr: get yourself white noise app on your phone, read positivity thread if you want to get some mental boost and donate money you would otherwise spend on TRT to actual research.
In modern days it's going to make you extremely anxious and exhausted to look after every possible source of loud noise.
Not to mention how hard is it when you are in your teens and you are an aspiring musician.
Sound enrichment can be brought to you by yourself (earphones are cheap these days, and how do they differ from in-ear maskers?), and there's no point in paying someone just to be told that you have to learn to live with it and have positive mindset. That's something you already know and even if you don't, you'll learn it very soon.
I feel this whole TRT thing is just another way of emptying wallets of chronic suferrers.
Tl;dr: get yourself white noise app on your phone, read positivity thread if you want to get some mental boost and donate money you would otherwise spend on TRT to actual research.
TRT does not work. There is nothing scientific to it. It is just based on the principle of having tolerable low sound around you, it's simple as that.
If you have hearing loss and can still enjoy music I would advise you to listen to music you like. If hearing loss progresses you will be able to remember songs and pieces of music you like, evoking them in your mind, or using your residual hearing to listen to music and letting your brain fill the gaps. In order to do this, you should have listened to those musical pieces before. I think it is worth it...
You clearly know very little about tinnitus and know nothing about TRT, and the correct way to administer it. If you had more knowledge and experience about tinnitus and I'm referring to Noise induced, then you would know this condition is intrinsically linked to a person's mental and emotional wellbeing and cannot be separated from it. How stress and negative thinking can affect it a lot and if not managed, can make the condition extremely debilitating for some. Science has its place in the world but not with tinnitus or hyperacusis.
Counselling is one part of TRT which works in the way I've described. The second part is using sound therapy: white noise generators. Helps with habituation and also treats hyperacusis if present, by means of low level white noise administered into the ears to desensitize an over sensitive auditory system.
Many people that believe they have had TRT and say it doesn't work have had nothing of the sort. It needs to be administered properly and with a Therapist that has tinnitus. Regular counselling is needed and the using white noise generators up to 10hrs a day. Treatment can last up to 2 years.
Michael
MindOverMatter
Member
- Jun 29, 2020
- 603
- Tinnitus Since
- 2004
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknown (possibly stress related, and later sound induced)
No, it certainly won't give your hearing back, but it can certainly help people with delibitating tinnitus and/or hyperacusis. I prefer to call it sound therapy with counselling.
Non-counselled, basic TRT with white noises generators is to be avoided in my opinion.
TRT is a waste of time and money because it does NOT work. It is just a scam.
So now a damaged cochlea or death hair cells are the result of stress hahaha... Michael, you have to be kidding. Please stop the TRT trolling for a bit.
MindOverMatter
Member
- Jun 29, 2020
- 603
- Tinnitus Since
- 2004
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknown (possibly stress related, and later sound induced)
Agree to disagree then. If that's your personal experience, that's okay. I do not know what your statements are based upon... My experience is different, and calling this kind of treatment a scam - if being counselled by an expert - I find very strange.
TRT for me, towards hyperacusis, is the combination of counselling/CBT and (positive) sound enrichment. This can be very effective for many people, and is by no means a scam.
@Michael Leigh it's strange that you didn't answer my question right away, but you only reacted when a TRT critic appears.
More and more tinnitus centers are starting to question the effectiveness of Tinnitus Retraining Therapy themselves. You, however, in every single statement you make, write almost the same thing; counseling, consultation and that only you know what it is. I am physically disabled, but tinnitus has shown me what real suffering, fear and powerlessness is. In a few days I will have had tinnitus for 2 years. It is better today than half a year or a year ago. I have made up my mind, although I still have terrible, destructive thoughts.
I believe that my tinnitus will eventually be cured, and I will try to survive this period as best I can.
More and more tinnitus centers are starting to question the effectiveness of Tinnitus Retraining Therapy themselves. You, however, in every single statement you make, write almost the same thing; counseling, consultation and that only you know what it is. I am physically disabled, but tinnitus has shown me what real suffering, fear and powerlessness is. In a few days I will have had tinnitus for 2 years. It is better today than half a year or a year ago. I have made up my mind, although I still have terrible, destructive thoughts.
I believe that my tinnitus will eventually be cured, and I will try to survive this period as best I can.
You are correct in what you say about TRT @MindOverMatter it does work for I have had the treatment twice. Each time for 2 years. Counselling and wearing white noise generators daily.
I listen to music all day long, from dawn to night. Tinnitus is always louder than the music.
@Rafalek73 If I didn't answer your question Rafalek it is for two reasons. One, even though you have typed my name using the @ I didn't receive an alert message as in this case, I only seen your message by chance even though you have written my name as @Michael Leigh I didn't get an Alert message. The other reason if a person is being disrespectful then I won't respond.
@Rafalek73 Please ask your question and if I can help I'll try.
Thank you.
Michael
@Michael Leigh this is my question:
Can TRT help someone with hearing loss and very variable tinnitus? I have a Signia Motion 13 5Nx hearing aid with a noise generator.
Can TRT help someone with hearing loss and very variable tinnitus? I have a Signia Motion 13 5Nx hearing aid with a noise generator.
HI @Rafalek73
Again, I did not receive an alert message. I believe TRT can help and see no reason that it shouldn't. One of the most important parts of TRT (Tinnitus Retraining Therapy) is the counselling. It is as what the TRT implies, is a retraining the the way a person thinks about their tinnitus so they become less distressed about it. Good quality counselling with a therapist that has tinnitus, this is very important - will help remove and demystify a lot of the negative thinking that people have about tinnitus and I've described how this is achieved in my TRT articles in the links below.
Regarding your hearing loss. I see that you use duel purpose hearing aid with white noise generators? Therefore, providing your hearing aids can increase the level of sound that your brain receives from the outside environment, I see no reason that they shouldn't work as part of TRT. The white noise generators help with habituation, by allowing the brain to habituate to the white noise, then slowly push the tinnitus further into the background. White noise will also help to treat hyperacusis by desensitization of the auditory system. You need to be under the care of an Audiologist that specialises in Tinnitus and Hyperacusis management.
Hope this helps.
Michael
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/what-is-trt-and-when-should-it-be-started.19024/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/what-happens-in-trt-sessions.18195/
MindOverMatter
Member
- Jun 29, 2020
- 603
- Tinnitus Since
- 2004
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknown (possibly stress related, and later sound induced)
There are numerous ways to habituate, and it will often work individually from person to person. TRT is one protocol to follow - among many. It may occur naturally over time though, for some...
There is no magic answer to habituation. But you will never habituate to tinnitus if you feed your brain with silence and no sound input. We are not made for silence. Ambient sounds is a natural part of human life.
OVERprotecting and possibly developing misophonia - fear of sounds - will keep you in a constant "fight and flight" mode which IMO will fight against habituation.
There is no magic answer to habituation. But you will never habituate to tinnitus if you feed your brain with silence and no sound input. We are not made for silence. Ambient sounds is a natural part of human life.
OVERprotecting and possibly developing misophonia - fear of sounds - will keep you in a constant "fight and flight" mode which IMO will fight against habituation.
@Michael Leigh At this stage I am reconciled but not used to it because it is impossible in my opinion.
I had severe hyperacusis, went to a really expensive private clinic about 8 years ago, followed their TRT protocol, did the CBT counselling and it did not work.
Nowadays there is not any serious clinic or hospital endorsing TRT because the current state of the art regarding hyperacusis is that there is cochlear damage and this cannot be reversed, and it certainly does not change by listening to white noise, or music, and increasing the volume in steps. This just will NOT fix cochlear damage.
Ken219
Member
Exactly, you followed their TRT protocol but I bet it wasn't proper TRT lasting 2 years and with regular counselling, also wearing white noise generators up to 10 hours a day and using a sound machine at night.
That is absolute rubbish! Hyperacusis when caused by exposure to loud noise, is nothing more than over sensitivity to sound. It can be very painful but with treatment using white noise generators as part of TRT often it can be cured as in my case. I had very severe hyperacusis with pain. It was completely cured in 2 years wearing white noise generators daily.
Michael
Unfortunately I didn't receive an Alert message again.
Tinnitus with or without hyperacusis can be problematic and very distressing for some people. I know because I've been there. Try not to think that's it's impossible for you to improve, because with this mindset you are setting yourself up for failure before starting any form of tinnitus treatment.
Take care
Michael
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