Tinnitus, TMJ, Headaches, Neck Pain, Facial Pain, etc. — Possible Treatment

[Candy]

Hi @Codaz are u based in the U.S. .

I've just received my splint for my TMJ, just a standard one...see how it goes. I've had TMJ since my twenties, doesn't really bother me that much any more but figured I ought to try them splint as it was an obvious first step.

Had u tried a standard lower teeth one?

 

[funkyfrog]

@brummygirl , any progress with your son? Is his jaw properly aligned? Are his SCM muscles too stressed out? Get him to fix his poor posture asap. That usually includes rounded shoulders, forward head, possibly short leg.

From the onset, what has helped his T the most?

 

[brummygirl]

Hi @funkyfrog Thank you for asking and for the advice
No, no progress at all. Nothing. I believe that his jaw is properly aligned, but I know the purpose of his splint is to bring the jaw down and forwards. His MRI did not show anything out of place, though, I understand.
I know his neck and some face muscles are tight and spasm. I am not sure if the SCM has a problem, but I would guess so. He has many sore trigger points, for which he has massage. He sees a TMJ physio who massages inside the mouth and a local physio who massages all others. The latter is also trying to get his neck muscles stronger, as they are very weak, but he does find those exercises extremely painful.
Sorry that I do not know the exact location of pain etc but he finds it very difficult to talk about it with me. The above is what I've observed from when he has had assessments. I try not to pipe up too much during them !!
Absolutely nothing has made a jot of difference. The only change is when he moves his jaw and to a lesser extent his neck. Then the t worsens.
What I wonder is if things haven't improved because the physio is looking for some movement to help the t and keeps moving on to different things, hence not doing anything consistently and repeatedly. Any other suggestions welcome.
How are you @funkyfrog ? Have you found relief from t somehow?

 

[funkyfrog]

@brummygirl , I'd like to ask him something. I've asked another member as well and awaiting his response.

Ask if he feels if his neck (front and back), neck skin, neck muscles are symmetrical. If he performs a chin tuck , does his neck and neck muscles look symmetrical? Does his neck like symmetrical when he stands straight in the mirror?

Any posture or forward head problems? Does he feel as if both his SCM's are of equal strength and length? Run your fingers through the sternum and clavicle all the way to behind the ear and see if they are symmetrical. Do they feel the same way when they are relaxed and or stressed?

Tell him this is coming from a son who is also experiencing the same issues, but you can tell him I've reduced my T by about 70% in both ears. It's coming from a person who went to doctors, ENT's, neurologists, and have been fed the same dismissive answers that you've probably already experienced.

Short answer is I had slight neck muscle symmetry that caused me to be dizzy and have T. I had to maneuver myself in awkward sleeping positions for my neck to "even out" from its injured/strained/unsymmetrical state. I am having decent success at the moment, but still in my early stages and hoping to get rid of the T to a really manageable level.

 

[Codaz]

Hi @Codaz are u based in the U.S. .

I've just received my splint for my TMJ, just a standard one...see how it goes. I've had TMJ since my twenties, doesn't really bother me that much any more but figured I ought to try them splint as it was an obvious first step.

Had u tried a standard lower teeth one?

Nope in The NL in Europe. The NTI-TSS is in in the lower jaw positioned.
In a couple of weeks I will see my TMJ doc again.

 

[locoyeti]

hi everyone, i've been keeping tabs on this thread for some time now but haven't posted. i posted extensively in the retigabine thread a few years back, and after 3 years with tinnitus have finally pinned down my issues as being neuromuscular. i have tmj, and excessive tension on the left side with clenching. additionally i have a abnormal musculature around my neck area (left side muscles abnormally large, probably impinging). my left SCM is super taut and hypertonic. i have a forward head issues, and posture issues from a 20 years of sedentary computer coding. i recently had an xray and mri done on my cervical area, and it seems i may have some issues with my first cervical rib. i have two procedures that i am having done in the near future which some of you may be interested in:

1. thoracic outlet syndrome - i am going to see the premier thoracic surgeon in the country at MGH (Dr. Donahue) in a few weeks, and after a specialized CT scan, I may get ultrasound guided botox injections. its possible i may even have to have surgery done, on my cervical rib, though i am hoping to avoid that. it is very likely that there is some impingement in my left thoracic outlet which is causing my tinnitus and migraines on the left side. more information here:
http://www.massgeneral.org/thoracicsurgery/services/treatmentprograms.aspx?id=1253

2. in a couple of months i am planning to visit this TMJ specialist in San Diego (Dr. Halligan), whose blog posts seem to be very enlightened on the issue of TMJ. they seem to fit my particular issue, which is a large occlusion (gap) between my teeth on the left side, which I am overcompensating for with clenching. it is worth noting that my tinnitus is mostly on my left side. Here is a particularly insightful blog post of his: http://halligantmj.com/tmj-pain-when-its-not-the-joint/

I will give you guys updates, and would appreciate any of your feedback or thoughts regarding any of the info in this post.

 

[applewine]

@locoyeti From what I believe after many years I would not suggest any TMJ specialists for jaw muscle pain. I would suggest if anything you go to a facial pain clinic and determine if it is truly TMJ related and they look at the whole picture. There is such a clinic at University of Maryland dental school. One person who has been recommended by many to me is Dr. Vanessa Benavent: http://www.marylandfacialpain.com/

I have never seen her because my pain is much more wide spread than just the face, but I may see her one day. I'll explain more of what I'm doing in my update post next.

 

[applewine]

@Mr. Cartman and others. I'm going to give a quick update. Two things.

1. I saw a few videos by random a few minutes ago showing this unusual technique people are saying they are using on the back of the neck for tinnitus.




2. About me. I recently had my stainless steel fixed retainer removed. I've had it in for about 15 years and my muscle pain problems in the neck and other stuff started around that same time. So, I decided to finally have it removed in case it might have something to do with the pain. I don't believe the function of my teeth in place was causing the pain, though I had thought of that before. No, I was thinking the stainless steel in my mouth may be causing the pain beause of a sensitivity to the heavy metals such as nickel causing systemic problems. I can also keep my teeth cleaner now.

However, I also want to see what things I can do to try to speed up the removal of heavy metals like nickel. What I found is that silantro / coriander and Chlorella are supposed to bind well to nickel (I think). Different plants or agents bind to different heavy metals. I prefer to cook all my food to avoid contamination. If it is a bottled suplement I might not have to do that. Though even sea salt can have lots of bacteria in it and I tend to cook with my salt rather than add it after now.

So, I'm going to be taking fresh Coriander stem leaves at least a quarter cup every day and I may order some Chlorella as well (get the powder that says cell wall ruptured so you can absorb it). What I don't know is if ti cook the Silatnro if it will destroy the chelating agent.

Then, when it comes to cookware I'm thinking avoid stainless steel and go with ceramic. For ceramic many require you use flame, not electric. A traditional japanese donabe will often require flame. You can use an inexpensive indoor rated counter top butane stove top that is popular in japan by Iwatani ZA-3HP. You can also find ceramic that is electric stove top safe like the Xtrema brand https://www.ceramcor.com. Though they aren't quite as made for cooking rice. I recommend japnoca rice by the way. A medium grain white or partially milled brown. JFC owns the Nishiki and Boton brands which is basically Japanese rice you can buy for good price because it is not improted, but grown in California. Nishiki 15 pound bags for $15 are easy a simple though and available on Amazon. A local international store may have Japonica rice as well.

If you want an authentic Japanese donabe this is one place you can get one made from Japanese clay which is the best. Not cheap though at $180. You may find other places. Very cheap ones may be made in China. https://toirokitchen.com/

Anyway, back to the heavy metals and muscle pain. You can find multiple studies talking about nickel leaching from dental apliances and also causing systemic problems in some people. Also, talk about some people with fibromyalgia having their symptoms caused by heavy metals they are sensitive to.

 

[applewine]

I found another interesting thing today. It occured to me to search to see if Nickel interferes with Acetylcholine because I know of its role in muscles and trigger points. It looks like there is some relation to nickel :

"NICKEL AND CALCIUM IONS MODIFY THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE ACETYLCHOLINE RECEPTOR-CHANNEL COMPLEX AT THE FROG NEUROMUSCULAR JUNCTION"
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/jphysiol.1980.sp013120/pdf

Also,
" In the peripheral nervous system, acetylcholine activates muscles, and is a major neurotransmitter in the autonomic nervous system"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcholine

I mention that because my autonomic nervous system seems like it may be malfunctioning too with my eyes getting very dry after eating and the salivating in my mouth at unusual levels. I think those both could be controlled by the autonomic nervous system.

All the more reason to remove nickel containing dental appliances and try to consume Silantro to see if it can remove nickel.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

No one is kidding when they say "it's the neck". Place 'muscles of the neck that causes tinnitus' into an internet search.

http://www.randombio.com/tinnitus.html

 

[Dr. Jay Hobbs]

I have been doing some more somatic tinnitus research. Neuro-muscular is my specialty. Even so, I have learned some new things myself during this latest round of research reviews.
This video speaks of the reality of tinnitus caused by different muscles and how that actually happens.
Also, I introduce the idea of how you can know if it causes your tinnitus, but I will get much more specific on the diagnosis and treatment in the next videos of this series.
Somatic-INFLUENCED tinnitus is VERY common, but that alone doesn't tell the CAUSE or the TREATMENT to help it.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Dr. Jay Hobbs - So true. Many are in agreement that that 60-70% of those with tinnitus have a somatic influence. More so with older people having tinnitus than younger people. Even young people who bend their necks in presence of ongoing noise, such as music or non barrier noise will have a somatic influence thru muscles and nerves in their neck. Connecting factors in the cervical spine among older people may include space narrowing and spondylosis within the C levels, joint hypertrophy, facet arthritis and most of all is loss of normal lordosis.

Levine and the somatic MIT group note that cervical somatic tinnitus influence will always include the jaw. Added would be gums and teeth. It is now more than theory that complications with the neck - muscle injury, muscle trauma, muscle stress or whiplash will led to jaw and mouth stress.

In addition to what Dr. Hobbs mentions to why somatic tinnitus and influence isn't addressed - is that it would take a medical team of not only therapists, but a group of doctors that can roadmap each one's condition. This would be time consuming and expensive insurance wise.

Treatments that I have gathered for the neck include soft touch massage, using one pillow, sleeping on back, the use of Vitamin C. Injections, trigger point therapy, electrical simulation and hands on PT should only be undertaken after x rays and CTs. Loss of normal lordosis - gentle exercises could be helpful, regardless of other problems within the neck. I gave a recommended link from one research group a few posts back. For the jaw, training with the TMJ healing plan can have benefits. Calcium and vitamin D contained in food. @DebInAustralia mentions coconut oil pulling on gums.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I'm not sure how I was able to write the above post with my level of T.
I wrote it after getting up after finally getting my first sleep in over several nights.
So my T wasn't racing thru my head, just my ears.
I really didn't say much, actually nothing. I care about everyone with T.
I really don't know if any treatment will really ever help me.
I hate putting my wife in tears over my condition.
Bless everyone.

 

[just1morething]

Gonna try a Lidocaine injection at the C3 level in my neck. If that helps a possible foraminotomy to that area to take pressure off the nerves. Very bad noise atm. I feel bad for everyone, especially those with severe T. The Dr. gave me a choice of a Lidocaine injection or a RFA (radiofrequency ablation) of C2-C4. May do both.

Foraminotomy is a medical operation used to relieve pressure on nerves that are being compressed by the intervertebral foramina, the passages through the bones of the vertebrae of the spine that pass nerve bundles to the body from the spinal cord.

Radiofrequency ablation (or RFA) is a procedure used to reduce pain. An electrical current produced by a radio wave is used to heat up a small area of nerve tissue, thereby decreasing pain signals from that specific area.

 

[Codaz]

@just1morething
While they do shockwave therapy to elbows and knees I have not seen it doing on the neck or face. Plus, there isn't any insurance company here that will pay for it. So it's not likely that I will do it.

@applewine

The Reddit method seems very cool but it doesn't help at all for me or not a lot at least.

 

[Codaz]

Gonna try a Lidocaine injection at the C3 level in my neck. If that helps a possible foraminotomy to that area to take pressure off the nerves. Very bad noise atm. I feel bad for everyone, especially those with severe T. The Dr. gave me a choice of a Lidocaine injection or a RFA (radiofrequency ablation) of C2-C4. May do both.

Foraminotomy is a medical operation used to relieve pressure on nerves that are being compressed by the intervertebral foramina, the passages through the bones of the vertebrae of the spine that pass nerve bundles to the body from the spinal cord.

Radiofrequency ablation (or RFA) is a procedure used to reduce pain. An electrical current produced by a radio wave is used to heat up a small area of nerve tissue, thereby decreasing pain signals from that specific area.

Can you please post the results?

 

[just1morething]

Can you please post the results?

Yes, the lidocaine injection at C3 did not help. I had the first nerve block at C3-C5 and seemed to help but is very short acting. I need to do that again for insurance to cover the RFA. I will update after the RFA. He said he could probably go higher, C2 maybe. 2nd nerve block is on 12-16. Probably RFA in Jan. 2018.

 

[just1morething]

Sometimes my tinnitus is worse after eating leading me to believe it's TMJ related. My left TMJ doesn't really hurt but definitely is crunchy with crepitus. Other times I think it's related to my neck. ENT's say it's sensorineural hearing loss caused, so I'm a bit confused. Just seeking relief somehow.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@just1morething @threefirefour @dpdx https://www.necksolutions.com/tmj-pain.html

Some information provided here to your thoughts.

 

[just1morething]

I had RFA on left side C3-C4 C4-C5 C5-C6 a couple days ago. Seemed to spike my noise on left side, but am better now. I will have the same done on right side in about a week. Inconclusive so far on lessening of noise. I will check out Regenexx on C1-C3 later this month. At least I'm trying.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...e-of-cervical-collar.17556/page-2#post-297440

 

[Codaz]

Sometimes my tinnitus is worse after eating leading me to believe it's TMJ related. My left TMJ doesn't really hurt but definitely is crunchy with crepitus. Other times I think it's related to my neck. ENT's say it's sensorineural hearing loss caused, so I'm a bit confused. Just seeking relief somehow.

How much hearing loss is there?

 

[just1morething]

How much hearing loss is there?

I will try to find a recent audiogram and post. Enough that I'm worried about relief other than maybe TRT.

 

[Quiet please]

I got a book called Trigger Point Therapy. In it it shows the basic three areas to rub, press & release tension for TMJ which can contribute to Tinnitus in some people. It's definitely released the pain in those areas for me, & so far, the T is went down a bit.

 

[threefirefour]

I got a book called Trigger Point Therapy. In it it shows the basic three areas to rub, press & release tension for TMJ which can contribute to Tinnitus in some people. It's definitely released the pain in those areas for me, & so far, the T is went down a bit.

What book is this? This seems like it could help me. Whenever I massage near my TMJ it reduces the tinnitus for a while.

 

[Quiet please]

Trigger Point workbook by Claire Davies.
It's an updated book based on her late father.
My T is down; but not gone by any means. Trigger Point Therapy can be painful; please don't curse me out. LOL
But after a few weeks of doing it daily, the TMJ pain is 95% gone. Love that! One less thing to have to deal with. Best of luck!

 

[Codaz]

Trigger Point workbook by Claire Davies.
It's an updated book based on her late father.
My T is down; but not gone by any means. Trigger Point Therapy can be painful; please don't curse me out. LOL
But after a few weeks of doing it daily, the TMJ pain is 95% gone. Love that! One less thing to have to deal with. Best of luck!

I was told by my TMJ specialist (she does dozens of TMJ patients) that it can take up months or years. And there is no guarentee. So you are lucky that it helped so fast.

 

[Quiet please]

Codex, With this book, I knew exactly where to go. When you hit the sweet spot, you just know it's right. But with that said, I worked those trigger spots every single day,most days several times a day. I would imagine when you see a therapist, you have one session maybe once or twice a week. It was extremely painful & I really doubt a specialist would put someone in that much pain so often and except them to come back. I wanted to stop my own daily therapy, but dug down deep & just did it. Tears coming down my face sometimes.
I'm doing maintenance now; couple of three of times a week. It wasn't easy orr fun, believe me. Didn't really help the T though, just my TMJ pain.

 

[Codaz]

Codex, With this book, I knew exactly where to go. When you hit the sweet spot, you just know it's right. But with that said, I worked those trigger spots every single day,most days several times a day. I would imagine when you see a therapist, you have one session maybe once or twice a week. It was extremely painful & I really doubt a specialist would put someone in that much pain so often and except them to come back. I wanted to stop my own daily therapy, but dug down deep & just did it. Tears coming down my face sometimes.
I'm doing maintenance now; couple of three of times a week. It wasn't easy orr fun, believe me. Didn't really help the T though, just my TMJ pain.

Twice a week is too expensive. I had once every two weeks for more than a year and that was pricey enough already.
After more than a year I switched to once every 3 weeks and now it was once every 3,5 weeks.

 

[Quiet please]

Codaz, Exactly! That's why the therapists say it takes a lot longer, because not many of us could afford to have this therapy that often. I'm on maintenance myself. Just yesterday, I had a bad trip and almost fell. I clenched my jaw so hard, I saw stars & somewhat reactivated the TMJ. I'm back to doing self-therapy. Might take a few days or more. Who knows? Best of luck with your therapy.

 

[Codaz]

Codaz, Exactly! That's why the therapists say it takes a lot longer, because not many of us could afford to have this therapy that often. I'm on maintenance myself. Just yesterday, I had a bad trip and almost fell. I clenched my jaw so hard, I saw stars & somewhat reactivated the TMJ. I'm back to doing self-therapy. Might take a few days or more. Who knows? Best of luck with your therapy.

Not persé. In my opinion I would like to have the TMJ treatment done every single day. That is if you are Bill Gates with millions to spare. But a collegue of her (the senior therapist) said that duration of each treatment and the follow up should not indicate the quality of effect. Notice what I say: should not. So it can, but nobody is telling so.
Having yourself massaged every day will also benefit your mental health but who is going to pay for that.