Tinnitus, TMJ, Headaches, Neck Pain, Facial Pain, etc. — Possible Treatment

[Quiet please]

Codaz, if you get the book, you can massage the 3 main TMJ muscles yourself daily. I did it & it's pretty inexpensive.

 

[brummygirl]

A link to this lady popped up on my Linkedin account today. I wonder if anyone has had any dealings with her or the department for their neck pain or tmj?

From http://www.uva.nl/en/content/news/p...her-professor-of-orofacial-physiotherapy.html

Corine Visscher, professor of Orofacial Physiotherapy

Dr C.M. Visscher (1971) has been appointed professor of Orofacial Physiotherapy at the University of Amsterdam's Faculty of Dentistry (ACTA), effective 1 January 2018.

Corine Visscher's research focuses on patients with chronic pain in general and disorders of the jaw joint and headaches in particular. She is currently involved in amending the ACTA curriculum. In addition, she treats patients within a multidisciplinary team that includes trainee dentist-gnathologists, orofacial physiotherapists and a psychologist.

In her capacity as professor, Visscher will be focusing on the diagnosis and treatment of muscle and joint disorders of the masticatory system and the neck. Examples of such conditions are pain (including chronic pain) and movement disorders, along with the aftercare of oncology patients.

Visscher is an orofacial physiotherapist and epidemiologist. Prior to 1 January 2018, she was an associate professor at and chair of the Oral Kinesiology unit in the Academic Centre for Dentistry Amsterdam (ACTA). As of January 2018, Visscher will serve as director of the dental school. Visscher earned a PhD from the University of Amsterdam in 2000 for her research into temporomandibular dysfunction (TMD) and neck pain.

Corine Visscher has (co)authored over 70 international peer-reviewed publications, helped draft the international classification system for TMD (DC/TMD) and is a board member of the Physical Therapy Board of Craniofacial and Cervical Therapeutics.

 

[Codaz]

Codaz, if you get the book, you can massage the 3 main TMJ muscles yourself daily. I did it & it's pretty inexpensive.

Self messaging isn't going to do the trick. The TMJ therapist is outside of your face and knows where to put pressure. I tried with local heat therapy and everything.

 

[just1morething]

Dr. Mandell mentions tinnitus as a symptom on YouTube above. Check the neck, what the heck?

Poor head posture leads to many different ailments in the body including degenerative discs, herniated and bulging discs, arthritis, TMJ, visual problems, tinnitus, vertigo, and chronic pain. This exercise can be done at home daily to help your straightening or kyphotic neck.

 

[just1morething]

I have some TMJ disorder, but not sure enough to cause head noise. I'm trying some chiro adjustments plus cold laser therapy directed at my crunchy left TMJ. Just guesswork again.


Cold Laser therapy targets joint and muscle inflammation. It is an ideal therapy for the treatment of jaw pain and TMJ disease. Specifically it uses light therapy to stimulate healing of muscles and tissue. ... One of its known benefits is that it works as a subsequent release on tense joint tissue.Dec 23, 2013

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@just1morething It's nice to connect with you again, but I wish that it wasn't related to our situation. Maybe a chat about football, or about an outdoors adventure would be ideal.

After a year of research, I convinced that injury to the jaw is a major cause of physical tinnitus. A Dr. Stylis said that the cervical spine is often blamed as the cause of physical tinnitus, but 'jaw lash' injury - tender temporomandibular joints is usually the cause. Then the cervical neck is affected from jaw pressure at the same time. This could cause all sorts of problem within the neck, including misalignment of C1 - C2, a straighten spine and muscle tenderness, but that stuff isn't often the cause of physical tinnitus.

I believe that new evidence of dental pressure to the jaw, a whiplash, or a prior accident are at fault. A history of neck muscles spasms, forward head bending, posture and arthritis of the neck doesn't help with neck pain due to jaw injury, but physical tinnitus is from the jaw, not usually the neck. A strong connection of ETD is being made to jaw function.

 

[just1morething]

I talked to someone today about a new TMJ appliance for TMD and sleep apnea. I was going to use my old appliance as a backup. I'm pretty handy at stepping on mine and breaking it. They also do cold laser, ultrasound, and electrical stimulation. I don't have my hopes up too high for relief from head noise though.

 

[brummygirl]

I will be interested to hear if the latest work helps, @just1morething. I hope it does!

 

[just1morething]

@brummygirl, I will update after my appt. on 3-21. TMD may cause ETD also? I'm having a harder time clearing out my eustachian tubes with a EarPopper. Took some Mucinex. Not real sure if mucus in E-tubes can cause static noise?

 

[just1morething]

This works really well for clearing out mucus from Eustachian tubes and sinuses:

 

[Codaz]

TMJ and otological disorders such as tinnitus, new research from 2016 (meta research analyzing other papers).

Effect of temporomandibular disorder therapy on otologic signs and symptoms: a systematic review
J. Stechman‐Neto A. L. Porporatti I. Porto de Toledo Y. M. Costa P. C. R. Conti G. De Luca Canto L. A. Mezzomo

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/joor.12380

 

[brummygirl]

@Codaz Thank you very much for posting this.
I am really interested to read it as my son has been wearing an occlusal splint now for about a year along with in- mouth specialised TMJ physiotherapy. No change yet in his tinnitus, though.
I will have a good look through the individual papers reviewed to see if there is anything particularly pertinent for our case.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@brummygirl I been told that I need to do whiplash treatment only for over extension of jaw injury with combined treatment for straighten neck along with continued neck exercises. The Atlas treatments appears to be something that I need to do. I don't know if the exercises in this link will help your son or me. I'm going to try them. I think about you guys a lot.

https://www.massagetherapy.com/articles/face-grace

 

[brummygirl]

@Greg Sacramento If only we knew which neck exercises are the correct ones!

May I ask who has been giving you treatment guidelines so far? Intrigued by the mention of whiplash treatment.

Do you have a good physio? We have our excellent TMJ physio but haven't managed to find a neck physio that we can go forward with. My son finds that doing the neck exercises regularly (particularly the supine ones) so intensifies the pain and tinnitus that he has to stop them and we get stuck. And the neck physio gets frustrated. We haven't managed to find the sweet spot yet, but are persisting!

But my son recently corresponded with someone in the army who had been doing just a few simple standing stretches (the Crane from your attached article) but every hour or so. His tinnitus has gone. So we are trying them atm.

Ironically, I used to use the word 'we' to cover my son's tinnitus. However, about three months ago I seemed to hurt my neck and now I also have tinnitus. But it's manageable. So this means that I am also trying all the exercises we find. So I really do mean 'we' now !!

May I ask if you get a lot of neck pain with your tinnitus Greg?

We have looked into the Atlas method too but the practitioners are very few on the ground. No real evidence but I think we would try it if one was closer. At the moment, my son's neck pain is too bad to travel 3 hours in the car. I would be very interested to hear how you get on if you do try it! Do you have one within easy travelling distance?

Thank you so much for the link to the article. I will share it with my son and see what he says.

And thank you so much for thinking of us. I felt like I just got a virtual hug. Sending one back !!

 

[just1morething]

I will be interested to hear if the latest work helps, @just1morething. I hope it does!

I did go to MN. Cranial on Wednesday. Got impressions done for new appliance. They also did some cold laser on my TMJ both sides with mouth open and closed. I was doing better that day so didn't try electrical stimulation. I will be going back there in about 2 weeks to be fitted. I'm going to try cold laser today on my neck and TMJ area at a local chiropractor. Kind of a high pitched noise today that goes back and forth between ears. I don't like it at all. I had a whiplash from a car accident when I was young so my neck is weak. But no tinnitus back then. Neck muscles may indirectly affect TMJ then causing noise possibly.

 

[Codaz]

I did go to MN. Cranial on Wednesday. Got impressions done for new appliance. They also did some cold laser on my TMJ both sides with mouth open and closed. I was doing better that day so didn't try electrical stimulation. I will be going back there in about 2 weeks to be fitted. I'm going to try cold laser today on my neck and TMJ area at a local chiropractor. Kind of a high pitched noise today that goes back and forth between ears. I don't like it at all. I had a whiplash from a car accident when I was young so my neck is weak. But no tinnitus back then. Neck muscles may indirectly affect TMJ then causing noise possibly.

How does that cold laser for TMJ work, any example images?

 

[just1morething]

How does that cold laser for TMJ work, any example images?

I think it helps with inflammation. I could not find a example image like the one that was used but was told it was made in Canada. I can take pictures next time. I had noise exposure too so may be grasping at straws a bit. They did say that tinnitus is a major complaint with TMD. It is worth a try anyway to try to be proactive.

 

[just1morething]

I think my noise is coming from my upper cervical not TMJ. Probably instability or nerve compression affecting the DCN. Extremely loud hissing in head. I will check out this upper cervical chiro:

http://johnsonspinalcare.com/upper-cervical-overcomes-hearing-loss-tinnitus-vertigo-pt1/

 

[Greg Sacramento]

We know that TMJ - jaw is connected to the C1 and C2 where most of the time both go haywire at the same time and it does effect hearing. If this is the case for you, then you should have had some ASD and TTTS. Sometime whiplash to the neck does not show up for fifteen or more years.

When the C1 / C2 and jaw are affected, a domino effect happens to many other muscles, joints, nerves and the brain stem. Any arthritis will complicate it even more. There's question as to what treatment is best for subluxation instability, but it's joints first, then condition muscles. On many sites the only successful method of many for the joints is prolotherapy. Then it seems no one can agree. Try placing 'how to fix the C1 and C2' in internet search - I did.

 

[just1morething]

I was going to try prolotherapy, but it's hard to tell who is out to empty your wallet and who is legit. I did prolotherapy years ago but not sure if they went high enough. One spine Dr. thought it was dangerous so close to your spinal cord unless done under live x-ray guidance.

I will try upper cervical before prolotherapy. There is a local upper cervical Dr. but he is not a NUCCA member and I wasn't impressed with his methods. So I will have to drive a hour or so to nearest other one. Loud noise is wearing on my nerves.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@just1morething My occipital neuralgia is getting worse. Severe headaches, nausea, starting to vomit again, balance and coordination problems and pain behind my eyes. TTTS and ASD has picked up again. Hyperacusis coming back, but so far not as bad as it was months ago. Advanced whiplash is hard. Take care

 

[just1morething]

@just1morething My occipital neuralgia is getting worse. Severe headaches, nausea, starting to vomit again, balance and coordination problems and pain behind my eyes. TTTS and ASD has picked up again. Hyperacusis coming back, but so far not as bad as it was months ago. Advanced whiplash is hard. Take care

So sorry to hear that my friend. Other people just don't understand the misery we have. I hope you can find some relief from your torment on earth. Life is not fair for humans or animals. Our cats have it nice inside while a wild stray outside is fighting to stay alive.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@just1morething The nature of thing is not to scare those new to this condition and I can understand that. For those that have it bad like us, we need a tinnitus medical board where conditions related to tinnitus can be discussed with acceptance.

 

[just1morething]

@Greg Sacramento, Got my noise knocked down a bit by taking Lyrica and using a heating pad under my neck with a neck roll. You have a lot more conditions to deal with than me. I mainly just have tinnitus with some spinal conditions. My noise sounded like a powerline in my head.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@just1morething Over the last several months I put together this physical T list together from research with input from others. From what I studied, up to 80% of those with any tinnitus may have partial contribution in reference to this list .

1. The space between the C1 and C2 vertebrae with a cause relation to TMJ/D or without. No doubt this is #1.
2. Lesser or greater occipital nerve damage
3. The cranial nerves, ETD, virus, infection, inner ear damage, dental and 230 more, most to a lessor degree
4. Functional nerves of jaw, neck and scalp from trauma and head bending, posture that can reflect to the DCN and hearing - sometimes this history can give added reason why some adopt damage from noise exposure
5. The atlanto axial ligament as the dorsal ramus emerges
6. The deep to superficial turn around the interiolateral border of the obliquus capitis inferior muscle and fascia
7. The deep side of the semispinalis capitus and fascia
8. The super side of the semispinalis capitas and it's fascia again
9. The deep end of the trapezius as the nerve enters the muscle
10. The tendinous side of the trapezius and the superior nuchal line
11. The neurovascular interwining of the greater occipital nerve and the occipital artery.
12. Just about anything is possible, but to lesser degrees

 

[just1morething]

@Greg Sacramento, That's quite the detailed list you have and well above my paygrade. Are you related to @Mr. Cartman? jk. I will be working on #1. Something is definitely haywire in my body. I think it's spinal so will try upper cervical this week if I can get a appt. Will bring imaging reports as well as TMJ report.

Your #5 thru #11 seems a bit Greek to me.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@just1morething

I been told this from a couple of good doctors, unfortunately they not my doctors, just a couple of researchers that I emailed. First, don't perform forward head bending and maintain good posture - because if not, then it's worthless to conduct treatment. Easier said then done as I'm bending my neck forward typing this. Second start with joint treatment before muscles extended muscle therapy. Some gentle muscle therapy is fine.

Often there's a space between the C1 and C2 either with an over curved neck or a straight one. I started using the towel method and after the first time I got some great temporary relief. From then on, nothing. The C1 and C2 connects with the jaw bone and the jaw bone connects with fascia. Exercises may help with that if the C1 and C2 receives treatment as well. This will take maybe several months. Appliances/mouth guards may be needed.

By doing the above, many other problems may clean up. Other muscle therapy treatment may be needed. Just focus on soreness to tell what area. This can be done by slightly moving neck forward, backwards and to the side.

All the above may be 60% to 80% of somatic tinnitus. If arthritis is present and some often is over 40, then it needs to be known at one vertebrae (s). Treatments will be needed for that. Exercises or needles.

Will the above help with pain or discomfort!! Studies average - 50% deduction.
Will the above lower tinnitus!!!!!! Some 0 - some 99%. The average - I don't know who to believe. I think the true average is 35% to 50%.

 

[just1morething]

@Greg Sacramento, It's hard to know when tinnitus goes to the brain and it is "remembered" and then goes into a loop. That's what some people say but if somatic I guess it should go away. When Shulman treated central tinnitus with Gabapentin plus Klonopin it must have been for both inner ear damage and somatic I suppose?

 

[kelpiemsp]

@just1morething

I did go to MN. Cranial on Wednesday.

Is this MN Cranial on University Ave? Would you recommend them? I am looking at getting a referral on Friday.

 

[just1morething]

@just1morething

Is this MN Cranial on University Ave? Would you recommend them? I am looking at getting a referral on Friday.

Yes, they are good for TMJ disorders and sleep apnea.