Tinnitus, TMJ, Headaches, Neck Pain, Facial Pain, etc. — Possible Treatment

[applewine]

@Codaz I've been trying to contact him for a long time. He seems to be out of contact. I have no idea what happened to him. I seem to remember your name as well. I rarely come here but about once a year at most I think.

I think I found out what is causing them problem for me. It is a bit premature since it hasn't been confirmed though. I think I have a brain aneurysm. It is actually total negligence on the part of the neurologists that they didn't recognize the symptoms of a brain aneurysm or test me for them. The test needed is called an MRA, not an MRI.

I'm super pissed. I've been suffering and debilitated affecting my personal life and income for almost 15 years. This test should have been run within hours or days of me arriving in the emergency department at the hospital over 10 years ago. Aneurysms can burst. I also did weight lifting which can raise blood pressure and have deteriorated a lot since then.

I'm going to get an MRA scan and I'm pretty sure it is going to show it. I dismissed the idea because I thought an MRI covered any structural problem like that and I didn't look deeper into it. I may also have a condition called Median Arcuate Ligament syndrome (MALS) which I'm being evaluated for by a cardiologist who specializes in dysautonomia.

I found that pain in the face, stiff neck can be caused by aneurysm there is a published article on this https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28686948

I also have vision abnormalities such as sensitivity to light, my vision shakes, I have an unusual smell that smells like something I can't describe, lots of fatigue, brain fog, dry eyes, digestion problems. Oh, and tinnitus of course. Also very sharp stabbing pains around the ears or electric shock type sensation. Sudden temporary loss of hearing up to 95%.

Check out this video on brain aneurysm story:

 

[Fally]

So ive had two doctors diagnose me with TMJ but yet to see the dentist. Its on my list of things to do.

But my question is to anyone or even @Greg Sacramento might know the answer is this my TMJ playing up or hyperacusis

Is it possible to make your TMJ worse by talking? Here me out. On a Monday I have a six hour shift at the library in which im on the desk dealing with customers, then i got home and go to bed as its the late night shift. Then ususally 8 hours later im up and heading to work again for another four hour morning shift on the desk. What I have noticed is I am getting extreme headaches during this time. I was talking to a coworker and right next to my right ear (which is my TMJ ear) It was as if i'd been hit over the head with a baseball bat all of a sudden. It starts to throb and hurt and the pain even went down my jaw and neck at one point. It also seems it can take days for it to subside. Yesterday i i was talking and could feel my jaw just starting to hurt and a headache start to form not long after. Is this normal or no?

 

[Lane]

Is this normal or no?

@Fally -- I don't know whether it's normal, but not difficult for me to understand how this could happen. I feel I'm in a constant "cringe" with my tinnitus, and subject to "acoustic cringes" with my hyperacusis. So the combination leads to all kinds of ways I can feel discombobulated, including having headaches set in if enough stress is concentrated in a short period of time.

 

[Fally]

@Fally -- I don't know whether it's normal, but not difficult for me to understand how this could happen. I feel I'm in a constant "cringe" with my tinnitus, and subject to "acoustic cringes" with my hyperacusis. So the combination leads to all kinds of ways I can feel discombobulated, including having headaches set in if enough stress is concentrated in a short period of time.

Oh I know how you feel. I thought it might be because ive had my earplugs for to long and its my head and ears way of saying TAKE THEM OUT lol.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Fally Your problem may be your jaw as primary or in combination with the C1. Before we get into all the possible biology and reasons do you get lock jaw or ever have a difficult time opening mouth? To expand do you have sinus or oral (teeth) problems. You are probably a clencher, but more so had or still do twist your jaw and the reasons for this I will explain later in another post. It's possible if any of the above is accurate then you could have jaw fluid which can be corrected. This would cause very sensitive ears and to sound - hyperacusis. If your neck is sore, then where?

A little experiment: Consider trying some B12 for a couple of days with no magnesium taken. If your T and reactive just slightly improves then your jaw is probably the problem alone.

Tips: Another experiment: When you get up from sleeping do no mouth movements or head bending for 30 minutes. Keep lips closed and teeth slightly apart. From this tell me if reactive conditions are slower to kick in for the day.

 

[Fally]

@Fally Your problem may be your jaw as primary or in combination with the C1. Before we get into all the possible biology and reasons do you get lock jaw or ever have a difficult time opening mouth? To expand do you have sinus or oral (teeth) problems. You are probably a clencher, but more so had or still do twist your jaw and the reasons for this I will explain later in another post. It's possible if any of the above is accurate then you could have jaw fluid which can be corrected. This would cause very sensitive ears and to sound - hyperacusis. If your neck is sore, then where?

A little experiment: Consider trying some B12 for a couple of days with no magnesium taken. If your T and reactive just slightly improves then your jaw is probably the problem alone.

Tips: Another experiment: When you get up from sleeping do no mouth movements or head bending for 30 minutes. Keep lips closed and teeth slightly apart. From this tell me if reactive conditions are slower to kick in for the day.

Sometimes jaw feels tight to open
I do get sinus issues due to allergies im on nasonex for it. I do clench especially when im anxious so I know that not sure if i twist my jaw. My neck gets sore right near my shoulders sometimes around the back of my head.

Interesting you bring up B12 i get injections every month for it. (Have for ten years) The moment i have it my jaw feels less tight my hearing improves and my re activeness as well in some instances its even calmed my tinnitus down. Except two months ago when it didnt. I am over due for it at the moment but my muscles definitely feel more relaxed I have it.

I'll try that tomorrow

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Fally Arthritis is one cause of TMJ symptoms. It can result from an injury or from grinding the teeth at night. This could cause neck pain where you mention and with several other neck muscles. If you are looking down and then lifting head several times a day such as with computer use or maybe from library duties, then this could cause tension to your jaw.

If TMJ symptoms are due to jaw arthritis, laser therapy may be the only therapeutic way for lasting pain relief. Due to treatment time constraints and penetration capabilities of low-level cold lasers, higher-power class-4 therapy lasers may be the preferred instrument of choice. Also you may find benefit with shoulder massage.

You probably had blood work done, but have you had a neck X Ray or a 3D beam cone study of jaws? A cone beam contains some radiation, but it's much quicker that a MRI. It takes less than 30 seconds and foam ear plugs is all that needed. Headphones can't be worn because the arm of the machine moving around your head would hit. Also a full jacket is needed to protect thyroid. A specialized dental radiological center is better than having an exam at a dental office.

More discussion will be needed, but I been trying to leave out detailed biology with long study link support when posting if possible.

 

[Melike]

@Fally Your problem may be your jaw as primary or in combination with the C1. Before we get into all the possible biology and reasons do you get lock jaw or ever have a difficult time opening mouth? To expand do you have sinus or oral (teeth) problems. You are probably a clencher, but more so had or still do twist your jaw and the reasons for this I will explain later in another post. It's possible if any of the above is accurate then you could have jaw fluid which can be corrected. This would cause very sensitive ears and to sound - hyperacusis. If your neck is sore, then where?

A little experiment: Consider trying some B12 for a couple of days with no magnesium taken. If your T and reactive just slightly improves then your jaw is probably the problem alone.

Tips: Another experiment: When you get up from sleeping do no mouth movements or head bending for 30 minutes. Keep lips closed and teeth slightly apart. From this tell me if reactive conditions are slower to kick in for the day.

What does twisting jaw mean?

And besides strengthening the pterygoids and maybe splint usage, what other options one can do to correct the jaw fluid?

 

[Fally]

@Fally Arthritis is one cause of TMJ symptoms. It can result from an injury or from grinding the teeth at night. This could cause neck pain where you mention and with several other neck muscles. If you are looking down and then lifting head several times a day such as with computer use or maybe from library duties, then this could cause tension to your jaw.

If TMJ symptoms are due to jaw arthritis, laser therapy may be the only therapeutic way for lasting pain relief. Due to treatment time constraints and penetration capabilities of low-level cold lasers, higher-power class-4 therapy lasers may be the preferred instrument of choice. Also you may find benefit with shoulder massage.

You probably had blood work done, but have you had a neck X Ray or a 3D beam cone study of jaws? A cone beam contains some radiation, but it's much quicker that a MRI. It takes less than 30 seconds and foam ear plugs is all that needed. Headphones can't be worn because the arm of the machine moving around your head would hit. Also a full jacket is needed to protect thyroid. A specialized dental radiological center is better than having an exam at a dental office.

More discussion will be needed, but I been trying to leave out detailed biology with long study link support when posting if possible.

Oh wow. I havent had a shoulder or neck massage in six months so im well overdue for one. I use to get them almost weekly to monthly with my physio before he moved. Back then my tinnitus was a lot milder. Might look into getting one done again. Yeah I do, do a lot of bending as a librarian my computer us usage isnt as bad because the computer is normally up so i don't need to look down as much, advantage of being short there. I do find after six hours on the desk my neck and shoulders are screaming at me so clearly im doing something wrong.

I am assuming i need to go to a dentist for all of this since the doctors have been clueless about it.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Melike

And besides strengthening the pterygoids and maybe splint usage, what other options one can do to correct the jaw fluid?

This would be a starter article that includes arthritis, but treatment by cold laser may help as I mention in a new post above.
http://tmj.org/site/content/surgical-management-temporomandibular-disorders-fact-or-fallacy

What does twisting jaw means?

Twisting lower jaw, moving tongue, lip involvement is very complicated. Dystonia is a neurological condition.
Cranial dystonia affects the head, face, and neck muscles. Oromandibular dystonia causes spasms of the jaw, lips, and tongue muscles. If one carries a gene or not, then sometimes dystonia after tinnitus development starts. There's also the possibilities of other biology and conditions for involvement where I would need to post about 60 links for a complete tie in.
Cranial dystonia affects the head, face, and neck muscles. Oromandibular dystonia causes spasms of the jaw, lips, and tongue muscles.

Tinnitus of myofascial origin mostly ipsilateral can also be caused by TRiPs in the masseter and SCM muscles. This can have an unbelievable connection to muscles of jaw.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Melike We have talked several times before. If you could list completely everything that you know about your T, then we might be able to narrow cause(s).

For one person to know all the biology that may be associated to physical T is almost impossible. I have known of only one person that maybe came close. He also knew lots of biological physical pattern crossovers. He had a photo memory and could read a medical book in short time and remember everything a year later. He admitted to me that he probably only knew half of the physical crossovers with facial/oral to other areas. I have condition to condition crossover flow charts that I developed and it's already 500 pages and it's still very incomplete. I have enough so I can use added condition(s) research, but with cradle neck, jaw, facial and possible middle body and lower body input, I need to do precise research. This is all very hard to communicate by message board.

 

[Melike]

@Melike We have talked several times before. If you could list completely everything that you know about your T, then we might be able to narrow cause(s).

For one person to know all the biology that may be associated to physical T is almost impossible. I have known of only one person that maybe came close. He also knew lots of biological physical pattern crossovers. He had a photo memory and could read a medical book in short time and remember everything a year later. He admitted to me that he probably only knew half of the physical crossovers with facial/oral to other areas. I have condition to condition crossover flow charts that I developed and it's already 500 pages and it's still very incomplete. I have enough so I can use added condition(s) research, but with cradle neck, jaw, facial and possible middle body and lower body input, I need to do precise research. This is all very hard to communicate by message board.

Sorry for asking too many questions. I really apologize if it felt like I am abusing you as a source of knowledge.

It is really hard to keep track of everything you read about T, especially when it comes to somatic T, while you have been examined by a series of doctors who have various theories (most of the time conflicting) on what might cause what not.

I have a post which pretty much sums up everything that I know about my T. But I think we already discussed there.

 

[applewine]

Actually, I think a Cerebrospinal Fluid Leak is more likely the cause than an aneurysm. I kind of forgot about the CSF leak, which I learned about earlier.

However, they probably should have tested me for aneurysm years ago too given there is some similarity.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

For patients with cranial CSF leaks that don't heal, the most common indicators are: Drainage from the nose (rhinorrhea) almost always. Salty or metallic taste in the mouth. Sense of drainage down back of throat - often. Drainage from the ear (otorrhea. Cutaneous sinus tract drainage (CSF leaks into the sinus tract, which then creates a pathway to drain through the skin) - often.

 

[just1morething]

Methyprednislone 4mg tapered dose pack seems to help my noise quite a bit. If it is related to TMJ inflammation you would think a steroid injection to your jaw would maybe help? I have been reading that Methlyprednislone can be injected so it must come in liquid form. My clicking TMJ is on my left side where my loudest noise is.

Says it can be injected here:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323545.php

 

[Greg Sacramento]

If it is related to TMJ inflammation you would think a steroid injection to your jaw would maybe help?

A steroid injection often does helps for infection and a tight or clicking jaw, but tinnitus can come back later. Any salvia gland problems need to be address and with tinnitus such as oral trauma, cranial nerves, thyroid, sinuses, radiation, acid reflex.

 

[just1morething]

A steroid injection often does helps for infection and a tight or clicking jaw, but tinnitus can come back later. Any salvia gland problems need to be address and with tinnitus such as oral trauma, cranial nerves, thyroid, sinuses, radiation, acid reflex.

My noise changed to my head so an injection probably wouldn't work.

This person talks about diet and certain things to take that are anti-inflammatory.

https://drjockers.com/tinnitus/

 

[just1morething]

A steroid injection often does helps for infection and a tight or clicking jaw

I wonder who would do a steroid injection to my jaw? My jaw doesn't really hurt but the static noise is driving me nuts.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

My jaw doesn't really hurt but the static noise is driving me nuts.

You don't have a locking jaw. Besides temporary hyperacusis and TTTS can develop with having tinnitus. You will have to take my word on that as it's not provided in any article that I can link or a quote from another talk forum.

Recently I placed some conditions into board search that those with tinnitus can get. Some were briefly mentioned by a small few such as thyroid and lower tract problems. Other searches for conditions that one can develop after receiving tinnitus had no mention at all such as oral or lower tract mucositis often caused from too many exams with radiation. Either our health systems are under tinnitus waters or some with certain conditions are not able to post. The moral of this, don't go looking for trouble.

 

[Striveon]

A steroid injection often does helps for infection and a tight or clicking jaw, but tinnitus can come back later. Any salvia gland problems need to be address and with tinnitus such as oral trauma, cranial nerves, thyroid, sinuses, radiation, acid reflex.

Would you recommend steroids? Could it worsen tinnitus? I want to do it, but am still afraid of worsening tinnitus. What do you think?

 

[just1morething]

Would you recommend steroids? Could it worsen tinnitus? I want to do it, but am still afraid of worsening tinnitus. What do you think?

I don't know what @Greg Sacramento thinks, but it seems the first couple days of a tapered dose pack almost makes my noise go away. I have another one to pick up today and try. Can be hard on adrenal glands I've heard. If inflammation in TMJ or head/neck area it could help, but not a long term solution.

Some people with Lupus, RA, or other auto-immune diseases have to take steroids more regularly.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@just1morething @Striveon It's hard to know what one should take my mouth and by injections without discussions with doctors. Tinnitus and effect has no boundaries as it can have associations to any system or process. It's difficult to narrow any cause of a condition down with self research. Pain, soreness, sores, blockage of fluids or increased fluid travel always needs investigation. Infections and toxins is always a health concern.

After getting tinnitus, hydration, balance diet and needed vitamins as being seen on blood work as being low is needed. Blood work is a place to start for health matters. Trying to live healthy - prevention matters. Most with tinnitus live normal and healthy lives, but some need medical assistance relating to system problems and healthcare involvement is needed. Should I have this test or place this into my mouth is sometimes a safety unknown even by health professional when tinnitus has involvement.

 

[just1morething]

I may see this TMJ specialist in Atlanta. I called them today and he has openings in mid-June. Sounds like he is a high end TMJ Doctor (maybe they all say that?) You never know unless you keep trying.methods for tinnitus relief.

https://www.atlantacenterfortmj.com/

 

[Candy]

Hi all,

Did anyone get relief with TMJ therapy? Which kind?
What was your TMJ diagnosis?

I thought my TMJ has stabilised and the maxillofacial didn't think there was much they could do so I dropped it when this all started...

Thank you.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Candy Hi Candy. If you were to list 10 or so events that happed by approximate date including thoughts below it may be helpful to clue in on area of cause.

You had mentioned that you hurt your neck at the gym over three years ago. You also mentioned the jaw - TMJ and how long any discomfort from that needs time association to any neck problem. It's may be possible that a neck problem from injury with maybe development of bad head posture as either a cause or complication. You have also mentioned a noise exposure, but hearing loss is not detected. It appears that your sound started off mild or moderate and then increased. You mention a daytime sound.

I didn't read your entire posting history, but it may be your neck as initial cause. Several areas within the neck can contribute to not only TMJ, but muscle and vein input to the auditory system. Neck problems that happened as long as fifteen years ago or started degenerative change can lead to tinnitus.

It would be very difficult to know exactly what may be going on with neck without X Ray of neck and then possible consideration to a CTA and ultrasounds. It appears that you have somatic tinnitus and any level of sound changes may have to due with posture position where brain activity and auditory always has involvement. This leads to broad subject matter. Radiological notation of C spine including C1 C2 - the jaw hinge and down to C7 may be helpful. Any C spine problem may also point to muscles such as the SCMs.

I have massive hearing loss caused from noise, degenerative problems and injury, but for you testing and then proper treatment may help. Physical somatic tinnitus like all tinnitus input including a host of combined issues can have no boundaries. If there's any physical weaknesses, then X Rays, ultrasounds and blood work is a good place to start investigation. A 3D cone beam study of facial, airways, entire oral cavity, jaw structure, teeth and neck may also be helpful. This test is only 30 seconds and it's not loud.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@justonemorething I guess there's different neurons that deduct sound at a very high threshold that are not tested in an audiogram. So it may be that everyone with tinnitus has some hearing loss even if it's not deductible. Most medical journals list 62 possible reasons for tinnitus without recorded hearing loss and jaw with neck input tops the list by far.

Actually it;s fairly easy to identify specific jaw and neck connection cause when there's hissing or level changes during a 24 hour period. With this specialized medical teams have a 50% success rate with either partial patient recovery or total resolve. With neck and jaw and no recorded hearing loss discussion involvement with others, a fair amount had complete recovery after getting specific testing and then treatment.

 

[just1morething]

@justonemorething I guess there's different neurons that deduct sound at a very high threshold that are not tested in an audiogram. So it may be that everyone with tinnitus has some hearing loss even if it's not deductible. Most medical journals list 62 possible reasons for tinnitus without recorded hearing loss and jaw with neck input tops the list by far.

Actually it;s fairly easy to identify specific jaw and neck connection cause when there's hissing or level changes during a 24 hour period. With this specialized medical teams have a 50% success rate with either partial patient recovery or total resolve. With neck and jaw and no recorded hearing loss discussion involvement with others, a fair amount had complete recovery after getting specific testing and then treatment.

@Greg Sacramento

Where do you get such tests done at? I have annoying hissing atm. I seemed good earlier but fell asleep during the day again. It seems more sleep cycle/brain reset for me.

My latest psychologist said I can call Dr. Shulman direct. He apparently doesn't mind. I will email him my audiogram.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@just1morething - Without noted hearing loss, but with limited detail that I discussed in my post above.

Jaw tinnitus or hissing often has input from the neck to some degree. Actual physical somatic tinnitus can have a million variation/combination factors from one sufferer to another. This is why a 3D cone study is important which will note oral dentition including periodontal, occlusion airway, opacities, sinuses, nose, TMJs, maxilla and mandible.

Some possibilities that need to be known in which a 3D cone beam will undercover.
Anterior open bite.
Dimensions of airway, posterior to soft palate and tongue base.
Paranasal sinuses to note if they are aerated and without mucosal thickening or soft tissue densities.
To see if the sinus walls are intact.
To see if the ostiomeatal units are patent.
To see if the condyles have normal size and shape.
To see if the osseous components of the TMJs are smooth, rounded and without evidence of subchondral defects. To see if cortical thickening is noted along the superior surface of the condyles.
To see spatial relationships that include if the closed position of the right condyle is anterior to the center of the fossa and if the left condyle is centered within the fossa.
To see if the resultant posterior joint space is wide to the right or left TMJs.
To see if the palatal vault is relatively deep and narrow ( a transverse dimension).
To see if hyperostosis are noted extending from the lingual side of the alveolar ridge to the molar regions.
To see if the mandibular plane is steep and the gonial angles are obtuse.
To see if there's infection.

After the almost completely silent 3D scanner scans all the above and 3000 possible other association to TMJ in less than 20 seconds, the scanner will move around to the neck noting any neck connections. It will note within 10
seconds if there is space narrowing, sclerosis, flattening and osteophyte formation of the medium atlantojoint. If this or other problems are found within the neck, then simple X Rays of neck are advised. If there's loss of normal lordosis and other potential more serious problems are suspected in neck, then a CT or MRI is ordered.

With these two quick, non loud tests -3D cone beam and X Rays all TMJ and most neck problems can be found.

Treatments from discovery of these tests can lower T most of the time if not resolve.

 

[kelpiemsp]

An MRI is required for TMJ/D. Cone beam cannot show the disc status.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

The TMJs can be evaluated for signs of degenerative joint disease by cone beam, and when coupled with a clinical exam, can provide an indication of the state of the articular disc and all that I posted above.

So TMJ diseases such as degenerative joint disease can be identified by cone beam CT. However, the articular discs of the joints cannot be visualized directly with CBCT. Disc position must be inferred by the position of the condylar head and by clinical findings. Only an MRI can visualize the discs directly.