TMJ Tinnitus — New Sound

[jeas]

Hi everyone! I've had TMJ related tinnitus for going on 5 weeks now. Or I've been told it's TMJ related, who knows if that is true or not.

A little backstory, I've had diagnosed TMJ for going on ten years now. However I haven't had many issues up until I had a surgery about 7 weeks ago. This lead to 'trauma of my jaw,' (I was told this happens a lot during surgeries where breathing tubes are placed) and has caused a lot of inflammation making my bite off. I've been to an ENT and had at hearing exam. I was told my hearing was perfect and my ear drum, etc was all functioning normally. I haven't experienced any noise trauma as far as I am aware of, but I do have two young kids, and that can get loud. Although I am experiencing ear clicking, popping, pain and dizziness. I was told that TMJ can cause all of these symptoms at well. I should also mention my tinnitus seems to by in my right ear only. It was bad for a couple weeks, now it seems to come and go. I try not to pay attention to it or check for it too often anymore, I did this a lot the first few weeks... not a good idea!

Here's the part that is getting to me. I feel like I hear a different tinnitus as well. A low truck idling sound or a furnace in the distance, if that makes sense. When I cover my ears I don't think I hear it. I am not sure if it's a new tinnitus or I am just being super sensitive and picking apart sounds. I don't hear this sound all of the time.

Is there any way to tell whether it's a new tinnitus sound or if it's a real sound?

My right ear tinnitus is clearing, but it changes to my head if I clench my jaw or move my neck to a different position. I'm trying not to overthink this one, but it's bugging me a little.

Any advice and thoughts are appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[Greg Sacramento]

This lead to 'trauma of my jaw,' (I was told this happens a lot during surgeries where breathing tubes are placed) and has caused a lot of inflammation making my bite off.

Yes. Inflammation can cause bite problems. The bite can be thrown off easier if one has bad posture. The jaw may be the center of the tinnitus universe where it can also associate to so many other physicals.

For TMJ, you might want to consider a thin semi soft mouth guard made by a dentist that doesn't cover your wisdom teeth.

I think that your problem is just temporary while having inflammation. Has your dentist suggested treatment for inflammation? Do you have any burning or extra thick salvia within the mouth?

 

[jeas]

@Greg Sacramento

Hi there, thank you for your response!

Yes, I am seeing a dentist that specializes in TMJ/head and neck issues, she had a mouth gaurd made for me along with starting physical therapy. No mouth burning, but thick saliva along with a dry mouth, too. If that makes sense haha.

Does a low rumbling go along with TMJ, or do you think I'm just picking up on a bunch of sounds? This ones getting to me.

Thank you so much!

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@jeas The rumbling can be caused by infection. This is why I asked about thick saliva. At times the thick salvia can also temporary block saliva glands causing the reverse - a dry mouth.

Rumbling can be caused by a twisted nerve in your neck, but I really doubt it. There's 60 ways that rumbling sounds can happen, but for you other than infection or severe TMJ, iron levels can decrease with infection. Iron levels could still be low even after infection disappears. So low iron just on it's own can cause rumbling noise and other sounds.

All of this relates to me as well. A little green tea also may help.

Try to use correct posture as that can relate to TMJ and neck.

Stay in touch.

 

[jeas]

@Greg Sacramento

Funny you say that, I have a blocked salivary gland. Never even thought the two would go together. I've also been anemic in the past, so it could be iron, too. You're right, it could be a whole bunch of different things.

I will most definitely work on my posture as well. This is all so confusing when I supposedly don't have any hearing loss.

Thanks again!

 

[jeas]

@Greg Sacramento

Hey, sorry to keep bugging you, but I had one more question. You mentioned trying green tea.. should I still be avoiding caffeine if I don't think my tinnitus is due to noise exposure with hearing loss?

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@jeas

should I still be avoiding caffeine if I don't think my tinnitus is due to noise exposure with hearing loss?

Not sure. Studies go both ways.

https://psychcentral.com/lib/experts-challenge-caffeine-tinnitus-link/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/drinking-coffee-may-prevent-tinnitus

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25503070

 

[jeas]

@Greg Sacramento

Got it, thanks!

 

[jeas]

The mouth gaurd my dentist made me isn't super soft, and it's a little thicker. It doesn't cover my wisdom teeth, they're removed. Is this okay? I don't want anything to make the tinnitus worse.

Thanks!

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Mine isn't super soft, just not super hard. I'm sure your dentist took into consideration if teeth were being compressed into jaw. Your guard should be fine. There lots of debate as to should a guard cover the wisdom teeth with TMJ. For tinnitus TMJ, one that doesn't cover wisdom teeth may be better.

 

[jeas]

So my tinnitus for the most part is really low or gone unless I talk/eat too much or irritate my jaw... but now when I turn my head or lay it back I get a strange either head tinnitus (like static) or a loud in ear tinnitus. When I turn my head back to looking forward, it stops. Any idea whether this is jaw related? I'm nervous that one of these times when I look back forward, the ringing won't stop. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@jeas

When I turn my head back to looking forward, it stops. Any idea whether this is jaw related?

TMJ and the neck always has a relationship. This includes nerve bundles originating from the C1 -C3 nerve roots. These nerve bundles are the occipital and suboccipital nerves in the top back of the neck that have influence to forward head posture.

It's great that your situation isn't severe, but you are receiving warning signs from moving head forward - forward posture. Forward head posture needs to be controlled - a number one mention by professionals.

Consider getting a free consultation with a physical therapy doctor. He will do a neck X ray. Almost all PT doctors will advice gently stretching the head straight up with shoulders relaxed as a daily exercise. They will check to see if one shoulder is lower than the other. You can judge this yourself by standing straight and looking into a wall mirror. You can also get a X ray on your own and read about straight upwards neck stretching for self treatment consideration.

Sleeping with a small pillow under neck is important where there's no air space between your neck and the pillow.

 

[jeas]

I am doing PT for my TMJ, they haven't mentioned any X-Rays yet. I am also going to a myofascial release therapist. She said my neck is twisted. Is it a bad idea to continue going to her and do minor stretches instead? I'm not trying to complain about the sound I have now. I know it could be so so much worse. My main concern is doing something that could make it worse, especially when it's fluctuating so much.

Thanks again.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@jeas I also assumed from your mention of head movement that your neck is off balance. This is why I think that you should check to see if one shoulder is lower than the other as being cause. Check shoulder height by looking into a wall mirror. Off balance posture causes an unbalanced neck and that will cause unbalance to the jaw and facial. This in return can also affect muscles and nerve fibers going to the ears.

I would consider asking your primary GP doctor about getting a neck x ray before any neck physical therapy other than gently slowing carefully looking straight up a bit with shoulders relaxed for a few seconds a few times during the day to release tension in your neck which will also release tension in your jaw.

There are simple, safe and easy method videos on U Tube on ways to maintain correct posture that include computer posture behind a computer, walking with head balance and bending.

Have you had an injury, falling down, or do you have a problem with one leg?
Have you had any dental work done just before getting sounds? This could be caused from not having your head relaxed onto the dental chair headrest.

Don't be concerned as I think that you are very low on the trauma scale, but even with the slightest going on, clenching of teeth can develop. If there is a posture problem it's best to address it before you get older, as the c spine - the neck spine and neck muscles can become more unbalance and stressed. This could later in life cause facet arthritis and disc space narrowing in the neck.

 

[jeas]

@Greg Sacramento

Thank you for the information, I'll try the stretches. I will also check my shoulders. I'm guessing you are correct and they aren't in alignment.

No prior injuries or dental work. Just the surgery. I do have less than ideal posture, but nothing has changed recently to make all of this happen. I do already clench my teeth as well. The only thing I know for sure that has changed is my TMJ flared up. Which I didn't even think could be related because I've had it for so many years without all or these other issues. I'm not sure where to start to correct it all.

Thanks!

 

[jeas]

@Greg Sacramento

Is there a link to the stretches I should be following? I've found quite a few and don't wan't to try the wrong one. Also, in your opinion, are these neck/jaw issues actually curable? I'm starting to lose hope as it's now responding to my neck as well.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@jeas What I think that you should consider for both jaw and neck.

Control forward head bending. Use correct posture.

If you lift your children up try to keep the back straight when lifting. Try to lift by bending your knees. I have posted links where chiropractors have said after 30 years of practice that they have never seen TMJ without a neck problem. Even if clenching starts from hypertension - emotional normal day stress, it's will relate to problems in the neck. Neck pressure almost always starts at C1 to C3 and from there's muscles and nerve fibers will also become involved.

Consider a warm towel (not hot) placed on your neck for two minutes once or twice a day and before periods of lots of head moving. A warm shower.

Use a small pillow under neck while sleeping and use your mouth guard.

Walk by not bending your head to look at the floor. Use your eyes instead.

Consider standing straight against a wall with relaxed shoulders, breathe slowing in and out and gently try to raise head for 7 seconds. Read articles on correct posture as incorrect posture affects the shoulders, neck and jaw.

Just a thought and I may be wrong. You seem to be a doer and not a taker. Taking care of young ones can be stressful and with that any improper body movements - child care or family life/concerns may be causing physical structural imbalances. Very caring people often have tightness in their neck that leads to the TMJ area.

I would consider neck x rays. The radiologists will give you notes on good or bad findings. From there it's easy to know what's going on.

You are young, haven't been in an accident, no hearing loss unless it's hidden. You are only a few months in with tinnitus. With body and mind focus on yourself you will be able to see tinnitus disappear.

 

[jeas]

@Greg Sacramento

Thank you so much for your reply. You're right I am a doer, and it may be taking a toll on my body more than I was aware.

I will most definitely take everything you've suggested and give it a try. I go to PT tomorrow, I'll ask about an X-Ray.

Again, thank you. It's so hard to know what's going and it helps to bounce it off someone else.

Now I'm off to read some articles on how to improve my posture.

 

[jeas]

@Greg Sacramento

Hi again,

Just left PT, here's what he recommended...

He wants to do a more aggressive approach on my neck, using massage, dry needling and some type of shock?

Everything I have read says do not go an aggressive route. Thoughts?

He also wants to only work with my neck and leave the TMJ alone, although my mouth opening is locked at 22 mm.

 

[kelpiemsp]

As alluring as it is to believe TMJ/D is a physical condition. All research points it being mental in origin. Don't be overly reliant on what a MRI or X-ray says. Unfortunately, it is not a very good predictor (it actually has almost no statistical significance) of pain. A recent study found near 80% of olympic athletes present with degenerative disc disease...

You are on the right track fixing muscle and tension issues!

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@jeas To continue our discussion. I think that some or most of your problems relate to hypertension and posture where body and mind are not working together. In this article where I made present mention to others it talks about athletes and their problems. I'm not sure if twisting of your jaw is involved, but injury of the neck and jaw will offset dental height and levelness of the teeth plane. You may have unbalance to one side of the body, a lower shoulder where all sorts of interactions can take place.

PT is often just one sided. From your issues a neck X ray is needed to see it the c spine has straighten and to examine the C1 - C3 area. Neck muscle spasms from forward head bending will place added pressure to the jaw and in return pressure to the jaw can increase neck problems including muscles and a decrease c spine curve. In the young, PT can relate to arteriovenous malformation. Arteriovenous malformation, twisted veins and arteries can develop during fatal development or later after giving birth. Often the sinuses are also over active.

I would consider a thin semi soft mouth guard for grinding.
I would discuss with your doctor on getting a X Ray. No one can really advice on intense neck muscle treatment until a X Ray is done. Until then use correct posture, lower forward head bending. Most likely the occipital nerves in upper neck are tense beside neck muscles.
Maybe ask about getting a doppler ultrasound on your neck to check nerves and arteries. We had a sign on our treatment area walls to always ask a patient if Pulsatile T and TMJ is present before physical therapy on the neck.


https://starecta.com/10-first-insight/

 

[jeas]

Thank you!

 

[jeas]

@Greg Sacramento

Would you mind PMing me? I have a question but it's location related.

 

[Mathew Gould]

@jeas I also assumed from your mention of head movement that your neck is off balance. This is why I think that you should check to see if one shoulder is lower than the other as being cause. Check shoulder height by looking into a wall mirror. Off balance posture causes an unbalanced neck and that will cause unbalance to the jaw and facial. This in return can also affect muscles and nerve fibers going to the ears.

I would consider asking your primary GP doctor about getting a neck x ray before any neck physical therapy other than gently slowing carefully looking straight up a bit with shoulders relaxed for a few seconds a few times during the day to release tension in your neck which will also release tension in your jaw.

There are simple, safe and easy method videos on U Tube on ways to maintain correct posture that include computer posture behind a computer, walking with head balance and bending.

Have you had an injury, falling down, or do you have a problem with one leg?
Have you had any dental work done just before getting sounds? This could be caused from not having your head relaxed onto the dental chair headrest.

Don't be concerned as I think that you are very low on the trauma scale, but even with the slightest going on, clenching of teeth can develop. If there is a posture problem it's best to address it before you get older, as the c spine - the neck spine and neck muscles can become more unbalance and stressed. This could later in life cause facet arthritis and disc space narrowing in the neck.

@Greg Sacramento it's funny you say the neck and shoulders being off balance. I just started my 2nd upper cervical chiropractor and she said I look like the leaning tower of pisa basically, my ears are even off. After x-rays she said my atlas was 4.5 degrees off. I guess the ringing really can't go away until my atlas gets corrected and the inflammation of my neck/TMJ goes down. How long does it usually take for inflammation to go down if everything was corrected?

Also I'm still trying to figure out why my tinnitus is loud 55% of the time and then very low 45% of the time?

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Mathew Gould - Your inflammation without fracture, but with a tower of pica is probably from:

Former neck injury

At some point after injury - days, months or years, hyperextension with rotation movement to the altanto axial joint, altanto occipital joint and foramen magnum probably happened. This needs to be fixed, but tinnitus and inflammation is from the vertebral artery or the ganglion cervical superior. Fixing the joints may take pressure off these arteries, but if not discuss injections with a doctor.

Control forward head heading and keep no space of neck under a medium size pillow for sleeping.

 

[Mathew Gould]

@Mathew Gould - Your inflammation without fracture, but with a tower of pica is probably from:

Former neck injury

At some point after injury - days, months or years, hyperextension with rotation movement to the altanto axial joint, altanto occipital joint and foramen magnum probably happened. This needs to be fixed, but tinnitus and inflammation is from the vertebral artery or the ganglion cervical superior. Fixing the joints may take pressure off these arteries, but if not discuss injections with a doctor.

Control forward head heading and keep no space of neck under a medium size pillow for sleeping.

What type of injections and where?? Yeah I'm looking to get my neck right again so inflammation will go down.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

What type of injections and where?? Yeah I'm looking to get my neck right again so inflammation will go down.

Only in the last year, have researchers concluded what causes most somatic, physical tinnitus and brings on most cases of PT. They are saying we have now nailed this beyond the C1 axial, cervical and lumbar spinea and it's arteries. Some of the muscles stressed are the splenius, trapezius and levator scapulae in the back.

It's arteries that relate to the C1 - atlanto and occipital joints, C4 thru C6 and the thoracic spine. Problems can extend to the jaw, mouth and facial.

Problems start when arteries are stressed by neck hyperextension with also moving head to side caused by muscle spasms and changing blood flow.

In relationship to this - researchers have found that blood flow changes is 100% in these arteries by use of an extreme amount of dye with MRA. Arteries are the Vertebral, Superior, Middle and Inferior of the Ganglion.

There are different treatments beyond fixing the C1 and spine.

Read my links in post #64 under the thread - Had Treatment to Kill my Pulsatile Tinnitus Once and for All...
At least read links #3, #7 and #9.

We should learn more in the months to come from researchers.

If one have high cholesterol, enlarged thyroid nodules, Meniere's or any one of thousands of other conditions, disease or syndromes of neck, jaw and facial then what is mentioned above may apply as cause.

 

[Mathew Gould]

Only in the last year, have researchers concluded what causes most somatic, physical tinnitus and brings on most cases of PT. They are saying we have now nailed this beyond the C1 axial, cervical and lumbar spinea and it's arteries. Some of the muscles stressed are the splenius, trapezius and levator scapulae in the back.

It's arteries that relate to the C1 - atlanto and occipital joints, C4 thru C6 and the thoracic spine. Problems can extend to the jaw, mouth and facial.

Problems start when arteries are stressed by neck hyperextension with also moving head to side caused by muscle spasms and changing blood flow.

In relationship to this - researchers have found that blood flow changes is 100% in these arteries by use of an extreme amount of dye with MRA. Arteries are the Vertebral, Superior, Middle and Inferior of the Ganglion.

There are different treatments beyond fixing the C1 and spine.

Read my links in post #64 under the thread - Had Treatment to Kill my Pulsatile Tinnitus Once and for All...
At least read links #3, #7 and #9.

We should learn more in the months to come from researchers.

If one have high cholesterol, enlarged thyroid nodules, Meniere's or any one of thousands of other conditions, disease or syndromes of neck, jaw and facial then what is mentioned above may apply as cause.

Who would I go to for this type of injection and what is this procedure called?

 

[Mathew Gould]

@Greg Sacramento Any reasoning why I have louder tinnitus usually for a block of 5-6 days then very low tinnitus for 4-5 days? It literally rotates like that.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Any reasoning why I have louder tinnitus usually for a block of 5-6 days then very low tinnitus for 4-5 days? It literally rotates like that.

Many possible reasons, but good old fashion posture - head not balanced to shoulders may be enough reason.
With both your C1 - problem and jaw problems it important to brush teeth not looking down at the sink. Also to eat not looking down/or side to side.