Universal Sound Therapy (UST)

[Karl]

Karl --- I'll look forward to hearing from you about the neuromonics, or whatever your audiologist prescribes! I've read a little bit about neuromonics, and it does seem to work for some people.

You're right to be wary of the olive oil in the ear. I tried mullein oil in my ear, then began using Ring Stop ear drops. Neither one helped my tinnitus, but I did end up with an ear infection and had to take an antibiotic to get rid of it.

Calin -- Both of you are very encouraging about the UST cd; I've been using it for almost 2 weeks now, and am thinking my tinnitus is a little bit softer. I should be getting the Blood Pressure UST cd in the next couple days, and I'll report on that after I begin using it.

Thanks to both of you for your support; it helps to have others to talk to who are experiencing the same things!

Karen and Calin: We need to be cautious about how we are self-treating ourselves. Yesterday, I got home and my heart was going pretty fast and somewhat irregular. I had stopped the Metoprolol against my doctor's wishes. I think that was a bad move on my part.

Something remarkable happened to me yesterday. I was filling out the questionere the audiologist had sent me and I got to the following question:"Do you grind your teeth or have you had been diagnosed with TMJD (temporomandibular joint disorder)?"

"Yes", I do grind my teeth at night. Years ago, my dentist gave me a mouth guard. I haven't worn it for over 10 years. It's been sitting there in my bathroom drawer for years.

Then my family was eating dinner and one of my daughters asked, "Dad, do you know that your jaw is really loud?". No I didn't know it was loud. Then everyone in my family said that I have the loudest jaw they've ever heard! Even with my mouth closed, they can hear my jaw cracking when I chew! I was not aware that my jaw is loud. I asked my daughter when she noticed that my jaw was overly loud, and she said about 4 weeks ago. That was when my Tinnitus really kicked in.

I then researched TMJD, and I found that 33% of those with TMJD have Tinnitus. Needless to say, I got that old mouth guard out of the drawer and wore it last night when I went to sleep.

I have an call into my dentist to discuss TMJD, what specialist I need to go to check it out.

My point: I think that I was previously on the wrong track for how to treat my own Tinnitus. I will be seeing the audiologist. But also, I need to be careful about taking myself off BP medicines that my doctor has prescribed. The causes of Tinnitus appear to be quite variable.

 

[calin]

Karen and Calin: We need to be cautious about how we are self-treating ourselves. Yesterday, I got home and my heart was going pretty fast and somewhat irregular. I had stopped the Metoprolol against my doctor's wishes. I think that was a bad move on my part.

Something remarkable happened to me yesterday. I was filling out the questionere the audiologist had sent me and I got to the following question:"Do you grind your teeth or have you had been diagnosed with TMJD (temporomandibular joint disorder)?"

"Yes", I do grind my teeth at night. Years ago, my dentist gave me a mouth guard. I haven't worn it for over 10 years. It's been sitting there in my bathroom drawer for years.

Then my family was eating dinner and one of my daughters asked, "Dad, do you know that your jaw is really loud?". No I didn't know it was loud. Then everyone in my family said that I have the loudest jaw they've ever heard! Even with my mouth closed, they can hear my jaw cracking when I chew! I was not aware that my jaw is loud. I asked my daughter when she noticed that my jaw was overly loud, and she said about 4 weeks ago. That was when my Tinnitus really kicked in.

I then researched TMJD, and I found that 33% of those with TMJD have Tinnitus. Needless to say, I got that old mouth guard out of the drawer and wore it last night when I went to sleep.

I have an call into my dentist to discuss TMJD, what specialist I need to go to check it out.

My point: I think that I was previously on the wrong track for how to treat my own Tinnitus. I will be seeing the audiologist. But also, I need to be careful about taking myself off BP medicines that my doctor has prescribed. The causes of Tinnitus appear to be quite variable.

Yea - agree Karl. I did have my doctor's ok... I had gotten my BP low enough that the BP RX was useless and only caused anxiety every morning upon awakening. If I was highly stressed, the BP meds did nothing. Then it was Ativan to the rescue!

TMJ is one of the causes for T. I was considering the UST for TMJ, but then I have never been told I have it. I have a mouth guard, but that is cause I clamp down at night. Used the night guard before the T.

 

[calin]

update....

Woke up to O (zero) tinnitus sound. It came back after about 15 minutes and remains at a 1 level (1-10 level scale) or less. Sometimes a .2 or .3.... It may be a 1.5, but not for long periods.

I am very very hopeful!!!

 

[Karen]

I agree with you both about being careful about self-treatment. My doctor worked with me to get me off the Toprol XL (I changed doctors) because he didn't feel that I needed to be on a beta blocker. It took me about 1 1/2 months of tapering off the medication gradually before I finally got totally off it. And after that, it took awhile for my blood pressure to settle down; it was somewhat erratic for a couple months.

Karl, I wish you the best in finding a possible cause for your tinnitus. It is true that TMJ is one of many causes worth exploring. My dentist referred me to a TMJ specialist several months back. I went for an initial exam, but I'm sorry to say that, in my case, he was unable to find any indication of TMJ. So, back to the drawing board....

Calin, that's wonderful that you woke up to silence for 15 minutes; that is very encouraging! Thanks for keeping us posted on your progress.

 

[Markku]

This thread is full of positive comments, the majority of which comes from one person, calin.

First, let me be completely honest here and say upfront that I only today read this discussion from start to end. My reply would have been the same on page 1, but it's better now than never.

Unsurprisingly, the following is my personal opinion. It's targeted mostly at those who are thinking about trying this "treatment".


DO NOT EXPECT ANY RESULTS FROM THIS SO-CALLED UNIVERSAL SOUND THERAPY.



Use your own critical reasoning.

When you look at the UST's website, you'll see that they offer help for about every common diseases and conditions that you can think of. From Glaucoma to Peripheral Artery Disease.

The product descriptions are flattering and give the impression that by listening to a sound CD you can somehow help your body to fix itself.

Direct quote from the site:
"our scientifically designed frequencies remind your body of the correct frequency it should be vibrating at, helping it to make changes and heal itself. Sounds pretty good doesn't it."

It does. It almost sounds too good to be true... almost?

90-Day Money-Back Guarantee. What could you lose?
This kind of guarantee makes it easier to buy things. "If this doesn't work, I'll return it".

Well, you might ask, how does this company make money if a) this product doesn't work and b) they have money back guarantee? They can't make any money if the product is useless?

A couple of reasons:

• Some of these persons with ailments that order these CDs are too tired to actually return the CDs. Thus the company keeps the money.
• Some order a UST CD, and starts playing it. At the same time natural healing (that would have happened nevertheless) happens, but because a $50 CD was bought and played, one might attribute that healing process to that CD.
• What about the group of people who swear by homeopathy? Replace the word homeopathy with UST.

The reviews are funny on the UST site.
Almost all of them are overly positive. Five stars. Some four stars... I couldn't find one completely negative review, either the reviews were 100% positive, magic, or then there was some insignificant reason for a 4-star review.

The reviews alone should put you off. Think about it. Think about Internet. People tend to be loud when something doesn't work. It's simply impossible that there wouldn't be more negative reviews. The reviews don't feel authentic. It's likely that either the company has fabricated the reviews or they have chosen to publish only the happy and positive reviews.

What about studies? What data backs this treatment? Don't you honestly think that if this worked for even half of the things UST claims, it would be front page news all over the world? Now someone comes along and says that this is a big secret. Big pharma companies don't want word to get out. This is too good a treatment and big pharmas would be losing money! There's no financial backing, no money to carry out actual valid scientific studies! But because Dick & Wife have been making money off sick people since 2006 and they have clearly written product descriptions that sell and there are only positive reviews and they tell me that my sick cells are going to be vibrating at the correct frequency and rejuvenated, this works! Right? No way.


I personally am furious that companies like these make money off those hit with real and grave diseases and conditions.

Also, read what Jim has written to this thread. He clearly has points that you cannot invalidate & still buy into this humbug.


Remember, I love people. I love calin & Karen. I in no way am attacking any of you personally who believes UST might help.

It's just that objectively and critically speaking UST is just as much snake oil as Ring Stop or the sorts.

But since this is a discussion forum, I would love to hear others' opinions on UST. It's been almost only calin & Karen & Karl who has written in here.

What do you think about UST?

 

[Markku]

PS.

Food for thought.

Direct quote from calin:
"I do teas (green teas - with hibiscus as well) and Super Greens (for keeping my ph level balanced) and every so often food grade diatomaceous earth..... Multi Vitamins/minerals and amino acids, Omegas DHA and EPA and melatonin for full night sleep. Other: hawthorn, L-theanine, cacao, taurine, probiotics, grape seed, elderberry, garlic, CoQ10, curcumin, resveratrol, calcium and magnesium, inositol, gingko biloba and vit D3"


That's a whole long list of vitamins and herbs. Most of them have been at least moderately researched and have some studies behind them. Yes: unlike UST.

If I was a betting man, I would bet my other kidney and say that any and all of those supplements can have more effect on an assortment of diseases and conditions than UST. Actually I wouldn't need to bet, that's a fact one can look up on PubMed etc.


I wish everyone a great weekend!

--
Markku

 

[calin]

Ok - I will not post any updates then Mark.

 

[Markku]

Ok - I will not post any updates then Mark.

Why would you do that? I didn't mean to offend you!

I only wanted to share my opinion and what I came to think about UST as an treatment option.

My aunt believes very much in homeopathy and yet we can discuss about it. And she's a great person, I love her!

I don't want to dismiss you as a person. This was not my goal.

If you asked me, I would love if you kept everybody updated on your journey!

Just because I have a different point of view about UST, doesn't mean that I'm not interested in your recovery and how you are doing. I really hope you know that!


--
Markku

 

[Markku]

I also want to make noted that I'm from Finland, I'm a Finn, and English is my second language.

It is completely possible that I inadvertently wrote down my opinion as such that calin was insulted.

I would hate to live knowing that I drove calin away and hurt his her feelings, so I really hope, calin, that you didn't take my messages in the wrong way.

--
Markku

 

[calin]

If you care to do some research on the UST technology....
http://www.elizabethbauerconsults.com/pdfs/EHE'07.pdf - This paper was forwarded (email) to me from UST when I asked to see it. It was mentioned on the UST site.
www.elizabethbauerconsults.com/pdfs/Frac1.pdf. This link came from the UST site - http://www.universalsoundtherapy.com/FAQ.html

The above papers and study is quite impressive.

I researched this technology before purchasing my first cd, and was satisfied enough to try it. I am not sorry I did. The papers submitted for peer review backed up the other research I did on cymatics and the development of the therapy associated with it.

I am not suggesting that anyone try it. As I said, I wanted to document my progress - good or bad - somewhere. I thought this would be a site that was interested in finding allopathic (conventional medicine) treatments as well as alternate treatment and research.

I am not interested in people telling me I am using snake oil. I changed my attitude about homeopathy when I saw the BBC documentary on it. I do not use the treatments.

I am well aware that any one or even five of the things I am doing could very well be the reason I am getting my good results. But, nothing worked before the UST either. I have used other cds from this company and have had success for something that could have been treated in a short period of time. Tinnitus is not that something however.

I am not a he.

Calin is a French word for hug. Hug is good for both sexes.

As for the "different point of view" - I am still doing my progress and reporting or journaling as I go. If it doesn't work, then that is me perhaps and will work for someone else - or not.

I do not intend to have this condition for the rest of my life. I am choosing however to try non-invasive treatments first.

Mark, you have been gracious on this site. You seem to be open and willing to sincerely to be a resource for tinnitus sufferers. There isn't many forums out there for us. I was grateful that you spend your time and money to keep this forum available. You deserve kudos!

I have asked UST to start a forum for the people using the technology. That may come in time. I would be happy to chart my progress there if there was one. It seems that there is so much resistance out there for alternative treatments. that most don't want to hear about something other than surgery or masking. Acupuncture got the same treatment (resistance and snake oil attitudes), but is now generally accepted in the west. I, however, don't use that form of treatment as I have an aversion to getting poked by sharp things!!

Technology is advancing rapidly. We are constantly finding surprises about what works. I would prefer to be on the cutting edge and keep an open mind. In the future, we will be so advanced that we will not be taking medicine that gives us side effects that cause more illness and bodily deterioration. The paradigm shift cannot not come soon enough for me!

 

[calin]

I have updated the main post. I didn't realize that my first post was a warning message until just now. It was in caps and bold. Unbelievable!

My progress is wonderful. I am now always below a 1 on the 1-10 scale. Just a matter of time now.

 

[calin]

I don't have any affiliation with UST. You may call Dick Rhoades at the number on the website if you wish. (218) 833-2325

I have tried other cds. One example - I had a yeast overgrowth for months. I decided to try the candida one (I could always get a refund) as I had nothing to loose. Without medication, the candida symptoms cleared completely in just days and has not returned. Ask a woman how hard it is to get rid of a yeast infection without medication!!!!

Then I got the weight loss one thinking that surely would not be as effective. I played it 3 times in one day and lost almost a whole pound the next. I really pushed the limits on that day, eating 4 Oreos, 3 oatmeal reason cookies, turkey chili with pasta and cheese, 2 hots dogs with buns and almost a whole bag of snap pea chips. I was shocked when I got the scale the next morning. Oh, I forgot... a Bordeaux See's candy and a chocolate See's sucker while watching a movie on TV.

I really like it here. I hope not to get booted, but if you must... give me a heads up please.

Bless you all.....

 

[Markku]

Even though somebody might think that your posts give at least the appearance of a connection to UST, you won't get booted. Of course if somebody delivers me proof that you are Dick's wife or something, then it's a different case. Or if you were to start aggressively marketing UST here by different means.

Because at least I'm really starting to think that this whole thread would need to be the best undercover marketing project of the century if you really were affiliated with UST.

It just is quite unlikely that a marketer would pick one of the newest tinnitus forums that have the least traffic. Makes no sense.

The appendix I added to the first post was trying to make sure that people read those two great posts Jim wrote and that people wouldn't hand out their money for a treatment that only one person here has truly praised.

With the information now available in the first post & in this thread, I'm confident people interested in UST can decide for themselves if they want to try it.

I also dislike censorship.

It's important we don't start bickering or having pointless debate, if possible I'd like to keep the mood as positive as possible here.

As I said before, I'm also really happy that your tinnitus seems to be diminishing. Under 1 on a scale of 1 to 10 sounds wonderful.


I'm hoping for a quiet and nice night for myself too. Going to watch a movie, maybe Drive (2011).

Keep us posted. Karl & Karen could also chime in and give the latest updates.

 

[Karen]

I've been using the UST cd for tinnitus for over two weeks now (17 days, to be exact). I began using it the first day I received it, and have been using it every day since, at least twice per day. At first, I wasn't sure it was working, but I noticed even then that, at least, it seemed to calm me down.

Now, I am noticing a reduction in the intensity of my tinnitus, such that I can actually relax a little bit in the evenings. My ear used to ring so intensely that I could not watch TV or do much else to distract myself; television would actually aggravate the ringing and make it even worse! It was a high-pitched ringing that felt as if a drill was being applied to the side of my head. The sound now is more of an electrical hissing sound, which is far preferable to what it was.

On a scale of 1 to 10, my tinnitus was at least a 9 in the evenings. Now, during the day, it's a 4 or 5, and probably a 7 in the evenings.

For this type of therapy to work, being consistent is really important. I use the CD every day; the "Alignment" portion once a day; and the "Tinnitus" portion at least twice a day, sometimes more. I use a headset, with the speakers not quite on my ears, but just in front of them. This seems to work best, and is most comfortable.

I'm going to continue using the CD, and will report again as to my progress. Just taking some of the "edge" off my tinnitus has improved my anxiety level, and given me some hope!

 

[calin]

I've been using the UST cd for tinnitus for over two weeks now (17 days, to be exact). I began using it the first day I received it, and have been using it every day since, at least twice per day. At first, I wasn't sure it was working, but I noticed even then that, at least, it seemed to calm me down.

Now, I am noticing a reduction in the intensity of my tinnitus, such that I can actually relax a little bit in the evenings. My ear used to ring so intensely that I could not watch TV or do much else to distract myself; television would actually aggravate the ringing and make it even worse! It was a high-pitched ringing that felt as if a drill was being applied to the side of my head. The sound now is more of an electrical hissing sound, which is far preferable to what it was.

On a scale of 1 to 10, my tinnitus was at least a 9 in the evenings. Now, during the day, it's a 4 or 5, and probably a 7 in the evenings.

For this type of therapy to work, being consistent is really important. I use the CD every day; the "Alignment" portion once a day; and the "Tinnitus" portion at least twice a day, sometimes more. I use a headset, with the speakers not quite on my ears, but just in front of them. This seems to work best, and is most comfortable.

I'm going to continue using the CD, and will report again as to my progress. Just taking some of the "edge" off my tinnitus has improved my anxiety level, and given me some hope!

Gosh, good news Karen! Your progress is similar to mine! Mine turned from a bizzion crickets to high pitch less cricket sounding. The anxiety surrounding the T was the first to go. It will only get better for you I am sure! Hang in there!!!

I will have been using it for 2 months and 2 weeks tomorrow. Today - all day - it was 1 or less. I liken it to music fading out on a song or movie. The fade out. I am giving it another month (or less) for complete end.

Each day when I "tune" in to the T, I try to think to myself... Every day this fades more and more, and I am getting better and better.

I'm routing for ya Karen! And you too Karl!

 

[calin]

First thing I heard this morning was the coffee pot perking in the kitchen. Normally I would hear the T and maybe, just maybe, the perking sounds as well. When I then listened for the T cause I noticed the absence of T, it was maybe an .8 or .9... hard to pick a number for this darn T.

It is still there this morning... faded even more though.

 

[calin]

Dear Markku, I have been thinking about your comment at the beginning of this thread- "....likely nothing more than a scam." I ask that you reconsider that. First, the definition of the word scam.....

scam (sk

m) Slang
n.
A fraudulent business scheme; a swindle.
tr.v. scammed, scam·ming, scams To defraud; swindle


How can this be a scam when there is a money back guarantee? This from the UST site:

90 Day Complete Satisfaction Guarantee!
Some people say we're crazy for offering a full 90 day unconditional satisfaction guarantee.
We think it's just how we would want to be treated ourselves if we were in your position.
We assume that you probably aren't familiar with Sound Therapy yet. We know that for some of you, the only way you'll try it is if we take away all the risk. So we did!
We give you a full 90 days to really try it out, which is more than enough time to know with absolute confidence that it works. And if for whatever reason it doesn't, we don't want your money.
If you're not completely 100% satisfied we will refund you 100% with no questions, hassles or hard feelings.
We just want you to be healthy, happy and whole.


Secondly, you suggest this - "UST is not based on actual tested science." I offered you just two papers on this. There are more, but that would get into researching cymatics and I don't have the time to post that information.

You said this - ....do remember to think long and hard before you hand out your money." We do this regularly for supplements and other treatments. I have done that for allopathic medicine as well. This company gives you your money back. That is evidenced by a poster here that immediately returned it after receiving it in the mail.... without even giving it a reasonable trial. Did you see anything posted from him regarding not getting his money back?

If you intend to leave that warning on the thread first page, may I suggest that you place that warning on all suggested treatments - including supplements. Most of them have not " meet any of the usual guidelines for bringing a new treatment to market."

Do you see my perspective?

 

[Markku]

Those "papers" are, honestly, unconvincing.

Case studies, and carried out by questionable parties.

Biophotonics Research Institute, huh?

www.biophotonicsresearchinstitute.com
The hosting account for www.biophotonicsresearchinstitute.com expired. If you are the owner of this account, you can log in to your Control Panel to reactivate

They are not double-blind, placebo controlled trials.


And about DCA, from Wikipedia, DCA is actually being researched, and by researchers in an actual university and not some Biophotonics Research Institute:

Results of phase II clinical trials

In in vitro studies, Evangelos Michelakis of University of Alberta found that in tissue samples from 49 patients, DCA caused depolarization of mitochondria in GBM tissue but not in normal brain tissue.[4]
Five palliative patients with primary GBM were entered into a phase II trial. Three had not responded to several chemotherapies; two were newly diagnosed. After surgical removal of tumor mass, they were treated with DCA and chemotherapy.[4]
Of the five patients tested, one died after three months. The surviving four were followed for 15 months. Their Karnofsky scores were unchanged in two cases, and decreased by 10 points in two patients.[4]
DCA was associated with tumor regression and had a good safety profile. DCA side effects were minimal.[4]
Michelakis is proceeding with phase three human studies with private funding from philanthropic groups and individuals. DCA's legal status as a discovery is public domain because it was made or discovered as far back as 1864[17] and has been used in the treatment of canine and human lactic acidosis, some who presented at the beginning of treatment with cancer.

Planned and ongoing clinical trials

DCA is non-patentable as a compound, though a patent has been filed for its use in cancer treatment.[25] Research by Evangelos Michelakis has received no support from the pharmaceutical industry. Concerns have been raised that without strong intellectual property protection, the financial incentive for drug development is reduced, and therefore clinical trials of DCA may not be funded.[14][15][16][26] However, other sources of funding exist; previous studies of DCA have been funded by government organizations such as the National Institutes of Health, the Food and Drug Administration, the Canadian Institutes of Health Research and by private charities (e.g. the Muscular Dystrophy Association). Recognizing anticipated funding challenges, Michelakis's lab took the unorthodox step of directly soliciting online donations to fund the research.[27] After 6 months, his lab had raised over $800,000, enough to fund a small Clinical Phase 2 study. Michelakis and Archer have applied for a patent on the use of DCA in the treatment of cancer.[25][28]
On 24 September 2007, the Department of Medicine of Alberta University reported that after the trial funding was secured, both the Alberta local ethics committee and Health Canada approved the first DCA clinical trial for cancer.[29] This initial trial was relatively small with enrollment of up to 50 patients. The trial was completed in August 2009.[30] In May 2010 the team published a press release[31] stating no conclusions could be drawn as a result of the trial. A paper describing the results was published[32] but not linked from the press release. Only five patients had been treated with the drug during the trial.
In May 2011, online reports[33] suggested that the Alberta group had released new data which the media "had not reported". However, this appeared to be caused by confusion between dates (the previous update was May 2010[34]) and cancer charities moved quickly to counter these rumours,[35][36] which were subsequently covered in New Scientist magazine.[37]
The use of this compound as an anti-cancer agent has been patented.[38]

calin, I'm surprised you didn't know that many quack medicine / snake oil products and treatments have money back guarantees. I already have answered why that works and why it's still profitable for a company to sell snake oil products even with money back guarantees. I know you did read my reply here.

But to recap:

90-Day Money-Back Guarantee. What could you lose?
This kind of guarantee makes it easier to buy things. "If this doesn't work, I'll return it".

Well, you might ask, how does this company make money if a) this product doesn't work and b) they have money back guarantee? They can't make any money if the product is useless?

A couple of reasons:

• Some of these persons with ailments that order these CDs are too tired to actually return the CDs. Thus the company keeps the money.
• Some order a UST CD, and starts playing it. At the same time natural healing (that would have happened nevertheless) happens, but because a $50 CD was bought and played, one might attribute that healing process to that CD.
• What about the group of people who swear by homeopathy? Replace the word homeopathy with UST.

Making money off a scam product like UST is a superb business strategy. Making these CDs costs probably $1 (I could do them with GarageBand) and even if 6 out of 10 returned the CDs they ordered and got their money back, the company would still make a nice profit.


In my perspective the possibilities (pick one) here regarding calin's praise of UST are:

• Natural healing (either physical or psychological) that have occurred, and which would have happened without UST too
• Calin is affiliated with UST
• Calin believes in UST for some weird reason like some people believe in homeopathy or other quack medicine

The idea of UST being an effective treatment for any or all of the conditions it claims it helps, is ridiculous.

That is my perspective and from the private messages I've been getting here on the forums the general consensus clearly is that UST is another potion of snake oil aimed for the desperate.

A couple of members have even messaged me and requested me to ban calin and delete this thread, but thus far I've let it be, because:
a) I don't believe in censorship
b) There are honest and nice people there who truly believe in different kinds of quack medicine, so it definitely would be wrong to ban people just because of that
c) I could only take action on calin with good conscience if she's, for example, being paid in money, services or other means to advertise UST here, and that would require proof.


Two times I've now described why UST is nothing more but a scam, plus you need to account for Jim's replies in the first page.

Continuing debating this will not be fruitful to anybody. Lack of evidence, peer reviewed studies and controlled trials make it very clear that UST is not what it claims to be/offer.

The "warning" in the first post will be kept in place until the improbable day that UST would be acknowledged as a working therapy. People are free to make up their own minds about a panacea* quack therapy such as UST and if someone decides to try UST just for the sake of it, do remember to exercise your right to get your money back.


Thanks for reading.

*pan·a·ce·a [pan-uh-see-uh]
1. a remedy for all disease or ills; cure-all.

 

[Markku]

It's also funny and sad at the same time if you read this thread of Jim's (How to Spot Pseudoscience) and apply UST to those questions.

It just doesn't pass. It doesn't.

 

[Jim]

How can this be a scam when there is a money back guarantee?

calin, are you serious? Have you thought through that statement AT ALL!
Moneyback guarantees are THE HALLMARK of scammers. The fact that there is money back guarantee actually makes it more suspicious. Wow are you gullible or what. I'm probably waisting my time here explaining the obvious but here goes anyway. A guarantee does not in anyway make a product better, more efficient, cheaper, improved, faster etc. etc. etc. A guarantee is a marketing tool. It is there to break down the buyers restance. It has nothing to do with the product and everything to do with the buyer. GET IT??? A guarantee is added to a product for one reason only, to helps sell product, especially ones that are a hard sell because of their dubious quality. I'm not saying guarantees are inherently bad, they are not. A guarantee from a reputable company for a quality product is a very nice thing to have. But they are very frequently used by liars and crooks to sell you worthless garbage. A guarantee is one of the most potent tools in the snake oil salesmen's bag of tricks. But I'm pretty sure you know more about moneyback guarantees than you let on, don't you.

 

[Karl]

Hello again, everyone.

Finally, after a month of waiting, I went to my audiologist! I am now wearing a masking device on my right ear. This gives a faint wispy white noise that essentially makes the 4 kHZ Tinnitus that I've been experiencing not quite noticable. The masking device is a "General Hearing Tranquil Simplicity OTE". Cost $900.

I was also offered a Neuronomics. That consists of a device that has 4 hours of music, with faint wispy white noice incorporating a heartbeat type rhythm. Someone using this device uses it 2-4 hours a day. The objective is to relax and get your mind off the Tinnitus. It is supposed to be very effective with 90% of the people who use it. Cost of Neuronomics is $5000.

Back to the UST debate: In my opinion, if it relaxes someone, if it gets a person's mind off the Tinnitus, then that's what matters. The problem with Tinnitus is the "fear component". When we go into a "fear mode" - when we are feeling like a trapped animal that can't escape - then we create a viscous cycle that will build on itself. I have been told that we can break this cycle by avoiding the fear connection, utilizing masking devices. I believe also that the UST may have benefit as a soothing device that can help break the cycle. I don't believe in the pseudo-scientific jargon about bio-rhythms, or whatever the maker of UST claims. This person may have gotten lucky with something that works for some people.

William Shatner's book, "Up Till Now" talks about how he uses a masking device to cancel-out his own T. I decided to opt for the "William Shatner" model, rather than the Neuronomics.

 

[Karen]

Hi,Karl,

It's good to hear from you again! I'm glad you are finding some relief with the masking device; it does sound like a good way to break the fear cycle, which most of us with severe tinnitus experience. So far, for me, the UST has helped me to stay calmer at the worst times of my day, so it has been helpful in that way. (I've been using it almost 3 weeks now).

A question about the masking device: Can you use it all day and all night? For sleeping?

Thanks for the update!

 

[Karl]

Hi Karen.

I recall that you said you had a similar "in ear" device that you didn't like. The one I have fits over the ear, and is barely noticable.

Yes, the audiologist said that some people wear these things all day and all night. I've been wearing it the past two days, but not during my sleep. The anti-depressant that I've been taking, Remeron, allows me to sleep very well. It is also my understanding that most people wear these masking devices in each ear. We're giving the one ear a try for now.

Can't say that I'm an expert about this masking device, yet, but it appears to be quite helpful. Anything William Shatner recommends I will believe, since he's somewhat of a hero to me.

When I was trying the Neuronmonics, I was thinking:"This is basically music and white noise. $5000? Am I missing something?" Perhaps I am missing something about that device.

 

[Markku]

Jim might chime in, he's gone through Neuromonics, but as far as I know part of the cost of Neuromonics are the sessions with the counselor. The overall price includes those I think.

Still, it's such an unbelievably expensive option when you could do TRT way more cheaper.


Hmm, Karl's masking device looks nice and extremely small. Should be nice to wear.

 

[Karl]

Hi Marku.

Yes, the General Hearing device is so small people don't even see it. (And, no, I don't work for General Hearing)

"TRT"? Is that the IPod track advertised in the ATA Tinnitus Magazine?

 

[Markku]

Hi Marku.

Yes, the General Hearing device is so small people don't even see it. (And, no, I don't work for General Hearing)

"TRT"? Is that the IPod track advertised in the ATA Tinnitus Magazine?

Jastreboff's Tinnitus Retraining Therapy.

Basically what Neuromonics does is sort of a TRT.

And so is you wearing that masking device

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus_retraining_therapy

Important thing to remember is that, according to Jastreboff's TRT, tinnitus shouldn't be masked so much that it can't be heard, otherwise habituation doesn't happen (at least not so easily).

This is a good site about TRT: http://www.tinnitus.org/home/frame/THC1.htm

What's great is that everyone can do TRT, it's free (well except for sound enriching methods you decide to use, but many already have speakers/headphones etc.). And counseling can be combined...

For some persons counseling is important especially in the beginning, to understand the fight-or-flight response and coming into grips with own emotions. Counseling combined with sound enrichment can be a winner.


----------------------
EDIT: http://www.tinnitus.org/home/frame/counselling1.htm
So yeah, giving the patient key information is important too;

Every TRT trained professional uses a different, and personal counselling technique, but many elements are shared by all of us. It is different from classical counselling, where there is a lot of listening. TRT directive counselling is a teaching or training session, where information and knowledge about tinnitus and sound sensitivity is given to the patient. This is a key part of TRT.
If you are being treated with TRT and without this teaching approach on an ongoing basis, then it is NOT TRT!

So it's not completely correct to say that sound enrichment solely = TRT. But sound enrichment is an integral part of it.

 

[Jim]

"This is basically music and white noise. $5000? Am I missing something?"

Karl, No I don't think you are missing anything. I think you have it pretty much right.

Jim might chime in, he's gone through Neuromonics, but as far as I know part of the cost of Neuromonics are the sessions with the counselor. The overall price includes those I think.

This is correct also. But I think it's possible to get better counseling from a "counselor" not an audiologist. Depends on the ENT/audiologist skill level I guess. The audiologist I had was not very good. I do think neuromonics helped me at the time. I don't think I would do it again having the knowledge that I now have.

 

[Markku]

So Neuromonics is basically a super expensive version of TRT.

From what I've gathered, the TRT counselor is also more of an adviser than a typical psychologist/psychiatrist.

Some people might benefit more from common therapy combined with sound enrichment, or maybe it would be best to combine the three:

• a session where information and knowledge about tinnitus and the model of retraining therapy (incl. sound enrichment) is given
• after which a couple of sessions (or as many as needed) with a therapist

Personally I wasn't offered any of that, I was told there was nothing that could be done and that many people have it and that I should just try and learn to live with it.

That mentality unfortunately is quite common, which makes me sad.

 

[Markku]

By the way, I remembered that Jim wrote a detailed account of his Neuromonics experience.

For those interested, here's a direct link: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/hello-everyone.15/#post-792

 

[Karl]

Important thing to remember is that, according to Jastreboff's TRT, tinnitus shouldn't be masked so much that it can't be heard, otherwise habituation doesn't happen (at least not so easily).

Markku -
Thank you for pointing this out. I've just turned my masker down.