University of Minnesota Tinnitus Research with Acoustic and Body Stimulation

[Marko Nakovski]

@kelpiemsp Did they measure your LDL before and after the trials? Or only tinnitus is involved in the research?

 

[hsk]

Can someone post a link to the clinical trial website for this Minnesota study? I can't seem to find it. I just see Susan Shore's.

 

[Watasha]

@kelpiemsp Do you know if Minnesota ever filled the role to replace Dr. Lim for the study?

 

[kelpiemsp]

@kelpiemsp Did they measure your LDL before and after the trials? Or only tinnitus is involved in the research?

They asked if I had hyperacusis but that was it.

 

[kelpiemsp]

@kelpiemsp Do you know if Minnesota ever filled the role to replace Dr. Lim for the study?

Yes they have a research team moving forward with it. Dr. Lim is still involved at some level.

 

[Watasha]

Yes they have a research team moving forward with it. Dr. Lim is still involved at some level.

Thank you, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond and keep us informed.

 

[Manny]

Credit @urgentresearch:
Unfortunately, it looks like this study is over. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02283216?type=Intr states "Withdrawn" (?).
@kelpiemsp

 

[spedgas]

Credit @urgentresearch:
Unfortunately, it looks like this study is over. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02283216?type=Intr states "Withdrawn" (?).
@kelpiemsp

This does not look like the same study. This one looks like it has a magnet component to it. I think this is an older study they did.

 

[Manny]

This does not look like the same study. This one looks like it has a magnet component to it. I think this is an older study they did.

I think you may be right. My sincere apologies everyone - I certainly should have read through the page more closely! Now I see that it mentions transcranial stimulation too.
I will still leave up my original post to facilitate further discussion.

 

[Cal18]

Do anyone have a link to the correct study page?

 

[urgentresearch]

Do anyone have a link to the correct study page?

I could not find any other study on clinicaltrials.gov other than the one that was updated to "withdrawn" a few days ago.

Are we sure this is not the same study?

 

[jmasterj]

I have had some contact with the group responsible for the study and it sounds like it may be on hold while they are actually designing a wearable device. I believe @kelpiemsp posted job openings for this earlier in the thread. I read that Hubert Lim was on leave with Neuromod for a year and a half and his is coming close to that time frame, not that it couldn't be extended.

 

[urgentresearch]

I think you may be right. My sincere apologies everyone - I certainly should have read through the page more closely! Now I see that it mentions transcranial stimulation too.
I will still leave up my original post to facilitate further discussion.

You were right.

 

[Cal18]

I was hoping they might be opening the study up again sometime soon. But the design of a wearable device is definitely a step in the right direction.

 

[kelpiemsp]

I was hoping they might be opening the study up again sometime soon. But the design of a wearable device is definitely a step in the right direction.

Absolutely, if I had to guess, I'd put my money on a partnership with a hearing aid company. I feel like their design really lends itself to being combined with a hearing aid or similarly styled device. I really think they are moving the hardware aspect forward at this point. Hubert Lim will be returning to the UofM, and they have posted neuromodulation jobs. Also, I had the opportunity to peruse his lab, and tinnitus therapy is really the first step. I think he hopes to be able to help chronic pain, depression, improve sight, hearing etc. This was just gleaned from the work of his students and lab. Not sure if it's valid or "pie in the sky". But DARPA is funding it.......

 

[Ivkopivko]

This is my favorite thread and author ... just a good read considering the current situation with Lenire.

 

[Fifth Business]

I was hoping they might be opening the study up again sometime soon.

Minneapolis fella here. I emailed Hubert Lim who relayed that nothing is happening in the near future but eventually they will start the study.

What's a guy gotta do to get his brain zapped over here??

 

[MarkLud]

So I'll be "that guy" ... any news or updates with this? Been off the boards for a few months and this remains the most intriguing/promising option to me. Anything we can do to find out more without bugging them?

 

[thinlay]

Is there any news? Is this machine abandoned or still in research?

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

Is there any news? Is this machine abandoned or still in research?

The main researcher is working for Neuromod right now. I think he might be spending some time with this too but most of it is with Neuromod.

 

[mrbrightside614]

The main researcher is working for Neuromod right now. I think he might be spending some time with this too but most of it is with Neuromod.

Does that mean he's trying to get Neuromod to just buy them out? I'm so confused with this process. I didn't even know this device was so effective. We're in phase 2?? Sorry I've been busy lately so I don't have the time to go through 20 pages of this thread but @kelpiemsp reported significant results like a year ago... how are you doing now?

God damn I don't understand this. RELEASE THESE DEVICES FFS.

 

[Nonomat]

Does that mean he's trying to get Neuromod to just buy them out? I'm so confused with this process. I didn't even know this device was so effective. We're in phase 2??

Idk, in fact nobody knows. The talk is that they're processing the data before starting phase 2 but there's no news or statement about that. They could just as well not have pursued this further. People say that it could be Lenire 2 based on the fact that Hubert Lim (the head of study at the time of the test) joined Neuromod but tbh I think it actually hurt them. Judging by what we have, there is no way to be certain about where they are now.

 

[Sironketchup]

@kelpiemsp or someone else:
Can you confirm the Minnesota device works with 2-way-electrical stimulation (trigeminal and vagus) + sound stimulation?

If not I could guess that Lenire is actually pretty close to the Minnesota device.

 

[ThomasC]

I read somewhere they don't intend to release their device before 2024.

 

[Mathew Gould]

It's great that this Minnesota device has worked for a Tinnitus Talk member and the University isn't even moving forward.

How can Hubert Lim work for two different companies? That would be like someone working for McDonald's and Burger King.

 

[danielbp85]

Hi All!

I was curious about how the development of the Minnesota device is going, so I decided to drop an email to Dr. Hubert Lim, who is the head of the Sonic Lab at UoM and also works for Neuromod. I got an answer within a day and I decided to share it here to start some discussion about the prospects of the device.

"Hi Daniel,

Thank you for your interest in my lab's research on tinnitus. Based on past animal research from my lab, we discovered that sound combined with electrical stimulation of the ear or of the tongue drives strong plasticity/changes in the auditory brain relevant for tinnitus treatment. As a result, we pursued a human study in my lab with electrical stimulation of the ear combined with sound stimulation. My part-time PhD student who oversaw that study is still analyzing those data and will prepare a manuscript for journal submission. In the meantime. I also began working with Neuromod Devices in Dublin, Ireland to help them develop their approach with electrical stimulation of the tongue combined with sound stimulation, mainly because of the positive results we found in my lab's previous animal research. Although the original intention was to build a multi-modal device through my lab, Neuromod Devices already had made considerable progress towards a medical device ready for human use. So, I felt that the quickest and most effective route to getting a treatment option to the tinnitus community would be to work together with Neuromod Devices rather than build a completely new medical-grade device in my lab, which as you can imagine takes many years to get to clinical use. Therefore, I started to work with them to ensure we can share and combine our ideas towards creating the best treatment option possible between our teams.

Hope that answers your question.

Wishing you continued health during these unique covid times,

Hubert"

 

[Kam75]

Hi All!

I was curious about how the development of the Minnesota device is going, so I decided to drop an email to Dr. Hubert Lim, who is the head of the Sonic Lab at UoM and also works for Neuromod. I got an answer within a day and I decided to share it here to start some discussion about the prospects of the device.

"Hi Daniel,

Thank you for your interest in my lab's research on tinnitus. Based on past animal research from my lab, we discovered that sound combined with electrical stimulation of the ear or of the tongue drives strong plasticity/changes in the auditory brain relevant for tinnitus treatment. As a result, we pursued a human study in my lab with electrical stimulation of the ear combined with sound stimulation. My part-time PhD student who oversaw that study is still analyzing those data and will prepare a manuscript for journal submission. In the meantime. I also began working with Neuromod Devices in Dublin, Ireland to help them develop their approach with electrical stimulation of the tongue combined with sound stimulation, mainly because of the positive results we found in my lab's previous animal research. Although the original intention was to build a multi-modal device through my lab, Neuromod Devices already had made considerable progress towards a medical device ready for human use. So, I felt that the quickest and most effective route to getting a treatment option to the tinnitus community would be to work together with Neuromod Devices rather than build a completely new medical-grade device in my lab, which as you can imagine takes many years to get to clinical use. Therefore, I started to work with them to ensure we can share and combine our ideas towards creating the best treatment option possible between our teams.

Hope that answers your question.

Wishing you continued health during these unique covid times,

Hubert"

Does this mean that the University of Minnesota is not going to release any device?
Does this mean that Hubert Lim is still working with Neuromod? According to his LinkedIn page, he's working for another company.

 

[UKBloke]

Interestingly worded reply he sent you. I wonder whether this section of his statement below implies that Lenire is a combination of Neuromod's findings and the best bits out of Minnesota?

Therefore, I started to work with them to ensure we can share and combine our ideas towards creating the best treatment option possible between our teams.

Reading between the lines it doesn't look to me like a novel device out of Lim's own lab is going to come to market any time soon - if ever quite frankly. If that is the case I wouldn't view it as a problem as long as the best bits from his ongoing research keep filtering across to Neuromod.

 

[Kam75]

I also understand from Dr. Lim's explanation that the University of Minnesota will not be offering a device.

I'm so disappointed... I don't plan to test Lenire at all since one of the people on this forum developed trigeminal neuralgia because of this device.

As for the Shore device, it's only been tested on somatic tinnitus.

I am really desperate, my tinnitus has only been getting worse since my noise trauma a little over a year ago and it seems that there will be nothing to alleviate it for quite some time to come

 

[danielbp85]

I also understand from Dr. Lim's explanation that the University of Minnesota will not be offering a device.

I'm so disappointed... I don't plan to test Lenire at all since one of the people on this forum developed trigeminal neuralgia because of this device.

As for the Shore device, it's only been tested on somatic tinnitus.

I am really desperate, my tinnitus has only been getting worse since my noise trauma a little over a year ago and it seems that there will be nothing to alleviate it for quite some time to come

My reading of the email is the same, I don't think we will ever see any device coming from the Sonic Lab (UoM). I think Dr. Lim transferred what was left from that research to Neuromod.