University of Minnesota Tinnitus Research with Acoustic and Body Stimulation

[kelpiemsp]

I found this while researching trials in my area. I emailed them and got a prompt response with a follow up email. Seems to be similar to what Michigan has going on I think.

https://mndrive.umn.edu/sites/mndri...nts/msync_study_ad_tracked_3_19_2017clean.pdf

I am planning on participating. What do you all think? Is this an attempt to catch up with Shore?

 

[kelpiemsp]

@just1morething if you are in the area...

 

[threefirefour]

I found this while researching trials in my area. I emailed them and got a prompt response with a follow up email. Seems to be similar to what Michigan has going on I think.

https://mndrive.umn.edu/sites/mndri...nts/msync_study_ad_tracked_3_19_2017clean.pdf

I am planning on participating. What do you all think? Is this an attempt to catch up with Shore?

Hey that's really cool. I assume this research is being spurred on by the success of Umich, but the more the merrier. Thanks for posting.

 

[kelpiemsp]

@threefirefour I have a call setup on Friday, most likely with a grad student, will hopefully know more then. The trial takes place over 16 weeks with 8 treatments.

While not traditionally a hub of tinnitus research the lab seems to be getting some big awards i.e. several DARPA contracts as well as partnerships with medtronic. That is encouraging because you know medtronic could bring a device to market quickly.

More study shows their research is neural beamforming: http://soniclab.umn.edu/research/neural-beamforming-tinnitus

I don't think I have come across this methodology before. But it seems similar to Shore's.

 

[swc5150]

I live an hour away from U of M. I may try to get in on this one. Thanks for posting!

 

[kelpiemsp]

I just got off the phone with the grad student conducting the interview. They told me in the first phase of the trial all 5 (very small and early in) had either a reduction in perceived sound, or reduction in perceived intrusiveness of tone. Phase 2 will have twenty people, and they believed they are learning how to target tone vs volume. It will be 16 trials. Sham vs non. Each person will receive sham and the real treatment. She admitted the results fade at this point.

 

[jay777]

@kelpiemsp how long did it take to fade?

 

[jer]

Still, that's a treatment. If you can keep the treatment up, so should the benefits.

 

[kelpiemsp]

@kelpiemsp how long did it take to fade?

Apparently in phase 1 the results faded after a day. They said that was intentional. Apparently it's very personalized, once you find the right sound and electrical timing to reduce the T they will increase it's potency. I'm not sure if that means more stimuli or more time. The goal they said ultimately is that it would be something that you take home, and use daily, then weekly, monthly etc. until it's gone.

 

[Stakovic]

Apparently in phase 1 the results faded after a day. They said that was intentional. Apparently it's very personalized, once you find the right sound and electrical timing to reduce the T they will increase it's potency. I'm not sure if that means more stimuli or more time. The goal they said ultimately is that it would be something that you take home, and use daily, then weekly, monthly etc. until it's gone.

Are they targeting somatic tinnitus or all types of tinnitus?

 

[kelpiemsp]

Are they targeting somatic tinnitus or all types of tinnitus?

I am not certain about that. I should know with in a week or two if I am selected for the study. They encouraged me to ask questions. If I am selected, I will certainly update this thread and ask any questions people here would like me to. They did ask me if I can modulate it, and I can. So I am not sure if that was a screener question or not.

 

[kelpiemsp]

Hi all. I found out I was selected for the study and will begin either this Friday or next!

 

[jay777]

@kelpiemsp Great news. Can I ask what tinnitus sounds do you hear and how loud? One ear, both ears?

 

[kelpiemsp]

Sure. Very high frequency around 12khz. I have a normal audiogram (0DB at most places with a dip down to 5-10 at 4khz) It takes about 85 db in the right and 75 db in the left to mask it with headphones. I can't mask it otherwise. Mine is extremely somatic in nature, I can hear it in the shower if I move my jaw or neck. I have had it my whole life. I have habituated and then get a spike, then habituate. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Hope that helps!

 

[Adriel93]

@kelpiemsp can you please keep us updated?

 

[kelpiemsp]

@kelpiemsp can you please keep us updated?

Absolutely! As long as the study allows it. I will let you know if I have to sign a confidentiality agreement. Also, keep in mind, as far as I know it will be a blind study. So I may have the sham at first also.

 

[Adriel93]

@kelpiemsp of course man I understand. We appreciate you, and good luck !!!

 

[kelpiemsp]

@kelpiemsp of course man I understand. We appreciate you, and good luck !!!

Thanks!

They sent me a link to show a little more about they are doing and how it is different from shore's device: http://soniclab.umn.edu/research/en...tus-treatment-and-other-auditory-applications

They are combining it with a hearing aid as well. This looks super great! Knock out T and hearing problems in one swoop.

 

[alex01]

Hello kelpiemsp
When the trial will begin? And there will be how much participants?
Thank you for your response.

 

[Samantha R]

@kelpiemsp
Thanks for sharing and sounds very exciting.
It's great to hear new devices and ideas are being trialled all the time.
I wish you luck and look forward to hearing your progress. Fingers crossed for some postivie results.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@kelpiemsp Did they request results from a X Ray of the cervical spine before acceptance?

 

[kelpiemsp]

@kelpiemsp Did they request results from a X Ray of the cervical spine before acceptance?

Nope. If it can be modulated it is most likely running through the DCN which anything from the cervical spine would run through as well. However they will be doing a pre and post EEG! They may be doing fMRIs as well. My first session is on May 11th. It's 2.5 hours every other week for 12 weeks and then 4 sessions once a month.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@kelpiemsp True, but not if there's loss of normal lordosis of the cervical spine and the alignment is atomic.

That could include disc narrowing, syondylosis, joint hypertrophy. With these conditions any facet arthritis / osteoarthritis would become worse. Under these conditions any modulation target theory such as with the sternocleidomastoids would be needed on a regular basis. This has a lot to do with medium altanto-axial space being reduced.

This is well noted in Charter 4 Trauma of the Cervical Spine not just pertaining to C1 -C3, but even more so C4 - C6. There also may be bearing on any narrowed external auditory canals, deep vertebral arteries and deep cervical veins and C1 -C2 interaction with TMD.

Then condition may need to be given to unbalanced muscles from posture changes and or trauma.

For some target muscle therapy may be needed frequent if related due to stretching or anything stated above. This may make T higher at first, then improvement, but not lasting. It all come down to the individual, but treatment may be needed to range from daily to bi-weekly for life.

 

[kelpiemsp]

@kelpiemsp True, but not if there's loss of normal lordosis of the cervical spine and the alignment is atomic.

That could include disc narrowing, syondylosis, joint hypertrophy. With these conditions any facet arthritis / osteoarthritis would become worse. Under these conditions any modulation target theory such as with the sternocleidomastoids would be needed on a regular basis. This has a lot to do with medium altanto-axial space being reduced.

This is well noted in Charter 4 Trauma of the Cervical Spine not just pertaining to C1 -C3, but even more so C4 - C6. There also may be bearing on any narrowed external auditory canals, deep vertebral arteries and deep cervical veins and C1 -C2 interaction with TMD.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but these all lead to the DCN in the brain, and then tinnitus occurs. It is the only path into the brain. And thus "closing this door" stops tinnitus.

If you want to write up a question, I will surely ask the researchers on the 11th when I go in for my initial scans and tests

 

[alex01]

Hi @kelpiemsp,
I hope you are doing well. Can you ask the researchers if the treatment works how much time will it take to be FDA approved.
Thank you.

 

[kelpiemsp]

Hi @kelpiemsp,
I hope you are doing well. Can you ask the researchers if the treatment works how much time will it take to be FDA approved.
Thank you.

I can. But I wouldn't expect much a response, so don't get your hopes up. The person running the grants (the PI) usually isn't involved in the day to day of the study. I will most likely be working with post docs and grad students. But I can ask!

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but these all lead to the DCN in the brain, and then tinnitus occurs. It is the only path into the brain. And thus "closing this door" stops tinnitus.

This can depend on cooperation of spinal nerves and the numbered cranial nerves for the amount of time of less T when the physical neck is involved. When one hears cracking within the neck, it's related to the discs, the hard structure. So when this happens, correction to the spine itself must be made first and any disease must also be addressed. Then severe muscle spasms that has relation to lordosis would be much less if not eliminated. Then there need for discussion on damaged or twisted nerves. I'm not talking about what Susan Shore has said per the DCN which I have quoted here, I'm referring to disease that can be increased from trauma (physical structure) of the c spine or from aging. Forty percent of the time in these situations there's no hearing loss, but there is T.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@kelpiemsp You probably don't have any of the problems that I discussed in my second post to you in this thread unless within your occupation you have been bending over a microscope all day every day that happened to cause disease or lordosis to your c spine or from having a child on your shoulders around your neck way too often.

 

[kelpiemsp]

This can depend on cooperation of spinal nerves and the numbered cranial nerves for the amount of time of less T. When one hears cracking within the neck, it's related to the discs, the hard structure. So when this happens, correction to the spine itself must be made first and any disease must also be addressed. Then severe muscle spasms that has relation to lordosis would be much less if not eliminated.

@kelpiemsp You probably don't have any of the problems that I discussed in my second post to you in this thread unless within your occupation you have been bending over a microscope all day every day that happened to cause disease or lordosis to your c spine or from having a child on your shoulders around your neck way too often.

Well I do have a child around my neck a lot and did fracture several vertebrae but they were lumbar! I do know that they were excluding people with hearing loss above 50 dB at any frequency. And are focusing on somatic T. Mine is modulated at c1 as well as the jaw. Thanks for the info!

 

[TinA#7oct]

Good luck with the trial, from what wrote, very promising!! TinA#7oct