Very Severe Tinnitus

[Tinker Bell]

Ask yourself why it never Decreased.

In large part that's likely due to the fact that hair cells do not regrow. The OP has 35dB loss. No matter how many loud environments he avoids, those hair cells are incapable of regrowing and restoring hearing.

However, I will add that continuing to regularly go to indoor nightclubs is not doing his remaining cochlear hair cells any favors.

 

[Gman]

I've read that damaged hair cells can repair themselves if they aren't too badly damaged, but it takes a long time. If the noise damage continues then they will eventually die and that's it for them. As the damage accumulates T is likely going to get worse and worse. That's why avoiding loud venues is a good idea.

I find it difficult to understand why people would rather keep doing things that are going to make it worse, especially when it seems to affect them. If it didn't they would not be on a T support forum.

It's also really bizarre how a lot of musicians and DJs with massive hearing loss and severe T just keep on going. It's like a form of self mutilation, in my opinion.

@Idk1234 I live in a country that's hot all year round and it does make my T worse. So I doubt the tiny heatwave you're having in Europe has anything to do with it.

 

[Bill Bauer]

In large part that's likely due to the fact that hair cells do not regrow.

Then how do you explain the fact that for the majority of people who get T, it fades (and for at least 20% it disappears)?

The OP has 35dB loss.

People can have hearing loss and be free of tinnitus.

 

[dpdx]

Then how do you explain the fact that for the majority of people who get T, it fades (and for at least 20% it disappears)?

People can have hearing loss and be free of tinnitus.

My dad has mild/moderate hearing loss and no T.

 

[dpdx]

My dad has mild/moderate hearing loss and no T.

@Bill Bauer you been really showering me with the hugs. I will be in September (1 year) with T. I am like living the onset every day, so no improvement here. I kind of wish I can go back to October 2017 when my life was somewhat normal.

 

[Gman]

People can have hearing loss and be free of tinnitus.

Unfortunately we aren't those lucky people.
They aren't even certain yet about what triggers T for some people and not for others. There are so many possible causes and while hearing loss is almost always connected, I don't think it is enough of a reason. We're all losing hearing as we get older, but not everyone develops this affliction. Maybe it's when there's a sudden drop or if we lose too many haircells/nerves at one time. Maybe certain brain 'wiring' predisposes us to develop T.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Maybe it's when there's a sudden drop or if we lose too many haircells/nerves at one time.

I believe it is possible to experience a sudden hearing loss and not get T...

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@dpdx You mentioned that you had TMJ for a long time. You also mention that you had a history noise exposure. Displacement of the TMJ disc can cause inflammation along the route from the joint to the ears and make muscles and nerves in the ear sensitive. I only mention this because you mention T either being stronger or lighter in the morning. Just wondering if some hearing loss is due to TMJ - primary.

http://www.simple-tmj-treatment.com/tmj-and-hearing-loss.html

 

[Tinker Bell]

Then how do you explain the fact that for the majority of people who get T, it fades (and for at least 20% it disappears)?

Did they have mild, moderate or severe hearing loss? Did their hearing improve with steroids, resolution of ETD, etc.? How long did they have T? For example, some individuals have muted hearing and T when they have a cold. Once the cold and lingering symptoms pass, their T resolves too. By any chance are they included in T improvement stats?

I believe it is possible to experience a sudden hearing loss and not get T...

Of course it could happen, but sudden loss without T seems to be a rare occurrence according to the ear specialists and neurologists who I consulted. This seems especially true for cases of significant loss. None of the medical professionals I saw were surprised I have severe T. A few even commented they suspected it simply by looking at my audiogram.

 

[dpdx]

@dpdx You mentioned that you had TMJ for a long time. You also mention that you had a history noise exposure. Displacement of the TMJ disc can cause inflammation along the route from the joint to the ears and making muscles and nerves in the ear sensitive. I only mention this because you mention T either being stronger or lighter in the morning. Just wondering if some hearing loss is due to TMJ - primary.

http://www.simple-tmj-treatment.com/tmj-and-hearing-loss.html

I had TMJ since 2016 and I had no Tinnitus. My T was caused by Ipod/Concert, my hearing was normal back in October and I had no measurable hearing loss, it was a perfect audiogram. After Caloric/VEMP test I lost 25db of my hearing and got Severe T which hasn't gotten better since. Right now I am dealing with a swollen preacurial lymph node near my right ear ( in front of right ear). I am going to see a doc son and we might do another CT scan or MRI to see what this is. I didn't have this until March of this year.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Did they have mild, moderate or severe hearing loss? Did their hearing improve with steroids, resolution of ETD, etc.? How long did they have T?

See the studies in the Stats thread
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/spontaneous-recovery-stats-many-recover-3-studies.21441/

By any chance are they included in the "T improves" stats?

No.

sudden loss without T seems to be a rare occurrence according to the ear specialists and neurologists who I consulted.

I didn't know that.

 

[dpdx]

See the studies in the Stats thread
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/spontaneous-recovery-stats-many-recover-3-studies.21441/

No.

I didn't know that.

 

[fishbone]

I have severe tinnitus and I am having a hard time coping with this.

I know you are struggling. I was there too my friend. It's not easy to live like this, it does take time and sometime LOTS of it. I would suggest that you seek some therapy (not talking about meds/drugs). Talk it out with someone gain some vocal support and feedback. I can handle TONS of pain, because I have seen more pain and obstacles in my life than anything else. I got tinnitus as a teen and i had the classic/low level hum/static noise. I use to go crazy and I was so scared. This was when my tinnitus was not even noticeable, unless i was in complete silence (room/atmosphere with no noise). Now I have tinnitus that is 10 times worst and I show no emotions or hardships towards it(95% of the time).

I remember as a high school student (someone that use to have a 2.4 gpa btw) we were introduced to a program called "where there is a will...there is an A". They use to force us to watch it. I never did and my grades were horrible and I almost never graduated. I was in junior college and got motivated to change my life and I went from a 2.4 gpa in my past to a 3.3gpa and I was accepted into school of psychology(EVERYONE said i'd be a failure. EVERYONE always doubted me.) I was so proud to prove people wrong (done this MANY times in my life and I LOVE IT!)

I did all of that and my father didn't pay (he promised he would if I got better grades) for my college and it broke my heart. BTW, I have had poor hearing since i was in my teens as well. In school I could never fully take notes because my tinnitus and hearing were horrible. I could not understand what the teachers would say, so i'd pay people to take notes for me (I was a clever cookie)

My point is this, IF there is a WILL in YOU (which IM SURE IT IS), then you will make it and adjust and live a good life. It's not an overnight thing, it takes GUTS, GLORY, EFFORT, TEARS and most important of them all PATIENCE to get it going. You CAN do this, I know you can.

Give it some time buddy, you will be ok

 

[dpdx]

I know you are struggling. I was there too my friend. It's not easy to live like this, it does take time and sometime LOTS of it. I would suggest that you seek some therapy (not talking about meds/drugs). Talk it out with someone gain some vocal support and feedback. I can handle TONS of pain, because I have seen more pain and obstacles in my life than anything else. I got tinnitus as a teen and i had the classic/low level hum/static noise. I use to go crazy and I was so scared. This was when my tinnitus was not even noticeable, unless i was in complete silence (room/atmosphere with no noise). Now I have tinnitus that is 10 times worst and I show no emotions or hardships towards it(95% of the time).

I remember as a high school student (someone that use to have a 2.4 gpa btw) we were introduced to a program called "where there is a will...there is an A". They use to force us to watch it. I never did and my grades were horrible and I almost never graduated. I was in junior college and got motivated to change my life and I went from a 2.4 gpa in my past to a 3.3gpa and I was accepted into school of psychology(EVERYONE said i'd be a failure. EVERYONE always doubted me.) I was so proud to prove people wrong (done this MANY times in my life and I LOVE IT!)

I did all of that and my father didn't pay (he promised he would if I got better grades) for my college and it broke my heart. BTW, I have had poor hearing since i was in my teens as well. In school I could never fully take notes because my tinnitus and hearing were horrible. I could not understand what the teachers would say, so i'd pay people to take notes for me (I was a clever cookie)

My point is this, IF there is a WILL in YOU (which IM SURE IT IS), then you will make it and adjust and live a good life. It's not an overnight thing, it takes GUTS, GLORY, EFFORT, TEARS and most important of them all PATIENCE to get it going. You CAN do this, I know you can.

Give it some time buddy, you will be ok

You need to be upgraded to a moderator or something

 

[Tinker Bell]

See the studies in the Stats thread
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/spontaneous-recovery-stats-many-recover-3-studies.21441/

No.

I didn't know that.

It looks like those who recovered hearing did so within the first year. That is not unusual. It also looks like in one of the studies, all but one patient had a ruptured tympanic membrane. It's late and my brain is muddled, am I actually reading that correctly?

It's not surprising that hearing would improve or even fully recover once the membrane healed. Unless one has a ruptured membrane, I'm unsure those examples of recovery would be applicable.

 

[Bill Bauer]

It looks like those who recovered hearing did so within the first year.

Are you talking about the studies in the Stats thread?

 

[Tinker Bell]

Are you talking about the studies in the Stats thread?

Yes. From the link you provided, the study referenced from page 15. It looks like the referenced study after also had multiple patients with a damaged tympanic membrane who unsurprisingly saw an improvement in their hearing and T once the membrane healed.

 

[Bobby B]

when I used to go to clubs I tried to stay in the open area of some of the larger venues where music is a lot quieter
i would avoid dance floors if you really have to go

 

[TuneOut]

No matter how many loud environments he avoids, those hair cells are incapable of regrowing and restoring hearing.

Yes, but is the tinnitus capable of decreasing?

 

[JohnAdams]

People! Avoid MSG at all costs. Im learning to waltz with this demon and it really has alot to do with diet. FYI.

 

[Tinker Bell]

Yes, but is the tinnitus capable of decreasing?

This would likely depend on what is contributing to our tinnitus.

From speaking with specialists and reading this forum, it is obvious that hearing loss, limbic system reaction, brain plasticity, and multiple other physical factors (such as wax, neck alignment and ETD) contribute to tinnitus volume.

We can control or influence some contributing factors, such as our anxiety levels, allergies, or wax in our ear. But improving our hearing* is one factor we cannot control — after the typical potential recovery period of about a year.

As a result, tinnitus can decrease but only to the extent of the factors we can control. For individuals with measurable hearing loss, there is going to be a limit to how much their tinnitus can improve.

Avoiding all loud environments (such as restaurants, stores and other social venues) does not regenerate hair cells but it can impact our limbic system. If you are anxious about noise levels, then avoidance allows you to remain calm and keeps your limbic system from entering a flight or fight response. On the flip side, if avoiding social situations causes you distress and depression, then your limbic system will be negatively influenced. Those dead hair cells? They do not care what you do or where you go. But your brain and nervous system very much care.

That said, your living hair cells do care so obviously exercise caution and do not exceed their limits. Regularly attending nightclubs is likely pushing those limits.


*Sidenote: A hearing aid can potentially improve hearing and there are individuals whose tinnitus decreases as a result. Anyone with moderate or greater hearing loss might consider trying a hearing aid and see if they can further reduce their tinnitus.

 

[jjflyman]

That would mean stopping my life. Going to clubs, parties and festivals is all me and my friends do.

It dose not mean stopping your life, it means adjusting your life. We all must decide if doing things we know is causing damage is worth the risk. To me, it is not. I will gladly give up loud concerts and clubs to regain my silence.
If you feel it is worth the risk of further damage to your ears and perhaps permanent T, then thats on you.

 

[Bill Bauer]

It's not surprising that hearing would improve or even fully recover once the membrane healed. Unless one has a ruptured membrane, I'm unsure those examples of recovery would be applicable.

When I first read about that study of survivors of a terrorist explosion, I was not sure what to make of the extremely high percentage of the patients who had achieved a complete recovery. Thank you for suggesting an explanation for this outcome. It has got to be the right explanation.

That stats thread contains links to a number of other studies. In addition, that dissertation also describes other studies. Specifically, on page 35 there is a description of the findings of a study of soldiers who got an acoustic trauma as a result of a gun shot and another study of soldiers who were the victims of an explosion. In those studies, "TM perforations were found in one case after AAT and in 27.6% after blast exposure." For those studies: "Of conscripts exposed to a single shot, tinnitus was initially present in 96% and hearing loss in 52% (I). At discharge, 23% had tinnitus, 23% had hearing loss, and 39% had either symptom still at discharge from the military service, indicating a long-lasting effect after exposure to only a single shot. Although tinnitus was present in 97% of conscripts after AAT, the majority had resolved by the end of the military service, at which time tinnitus was still present in 32%, and 68% had resolved."
So the fact that a significant fraction of the people get better can't be explained away by their eardrum healing.

There is also that evidence that 18% of seniors report recovering from tinnitus five years after onset:

https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q...lue+Mountains+Hearing+Study&hl=en&as_sdt=0,48

Don't let the 18% spontaneous recovery rate (during the 5 years under study) depress you. It is not that low, and also the average age of the participants in the study must have been around 65 (see Figure 2). Recall that other studies had demonstrated that the older the person, the lower is the chance of a spontaneous recovery (or the longer it takes to recover).

 

[john paul]

I am fine not going to concerts, clubs, festivals ,etc as long as my t reduces to mild. But I really want to go to restaurants, cafes, malls, etc. My T is Severe and it wont permit to do anything really.

I feel for you man i really do, i can tell that your having a really rough time with it. I dont blame you for feeling kinda angry and i can tell that your in disbelief that your being punished like you are. Its ok to feel like this but i sense that its hindering your progress. Im not having a go at you here i'm really not but if your going to get better you need to switch your outlook, every time you say something about how bad your Tinnitus is your re enforcing its hold over you and as a result your Tinnitus is beating you. You need to beat your Tinnitus to improve, i know this all seems like garbage because your Tinnitus volume is no joke and not some fairy tale you dream upon yourself. This is true but you need to stop the negative trail of thoughts towards your Tinnitus. I don't know how i would be in your position so i'm not judging you, im only trying to help.

 

[dpdx]

I feel for you man i really do, i can tell that your having a really rough time with it. I dont blame you for feeling kinda angry and i can tell that your in disbelief that your being punished like you are. Its ok to feel like this but i sense that its hindering your progress. Im not having a go at you here i'm really not but if your going to get better you need to switch your outlook, every time you say something about how bad your Tinnitus is your re enforcing its hold over you and as a result your Tinnitus is beating you. You need to beat your Tinnitus to improve, i know this all seems like garbage because your Tinnitus volume is no joke and not some fairy tale you dream upon yourself. This is true but you need to stop the negative trail of thoughts towards your Tinnitus. I don't know how i would be in your position so i'm not judging you, im only trying to help.

Mine is just way too loud.

 

[Bobby B]

People! Avoid MSG at all costs. Im learning to waltz with this demon and it really has alot to do with diet. FYI.

Tinnitus or hearing loss isn't more common in Asian countries consuming a lot more MSG

 

[JohnAdams]

Tinnitus or hearing loss isn't more common in Asian countries consuming a lot more MSG

Just because crappy American Chinese restaurants use monosodium glutinate to make their old food taste better doesnt mean asians eat more of it than we do.

 

[Tinker Bell]

Just because crappy American Chinese restaurants use monosodium glutinate to make their old food taste better doesnt mean asians eat more of it than we do.

But Asians actually do consume more MSG than Americans: https://ihsmarkit.com/products/monosodium-glutamate-chemical-economics-handbook.html

 

[Tinker Bell]

When I first read about that study of survivors of a terrorist explosion, I was not sure what to make of the extremely high percentage of the patients who had achieved a complete recovery. Thank you for suggesting an explanation for this outcome. It has got to be the right explanation.

That stats thread contains links to a number of other studies. In addition, that dissertation also describes other studies. Specifically, on page 35 there is a description of the findings of a study of soldiers who got an acoustic trauma as a result of a gun shot and another study of soldiers who were the victims of an explosion. In those studies, "TM perforations were found in one case after AAT and in 27.6% after blast exposure." For those studies: "Of conscripts exposed to a single shot, tinnitus was initially present in 96% and hearing loss in 52% (I). At discharge, 23% had tinnitus, 23% had hearing loss, and 39% had either symptom still at discharge from the military service, indicating a long-lasting effect after exposure to only a single shot. Although tinnitus was present in 97% of conscripts after AAT, the majority had resolved by the end of the military service, at which time tinnitus was still present in 32%, and 68% had resolved."
So the fact that a significant fraction of the people get better can't be explained away by their eardrum healing.

There is also that evidence that 18% of seniors report recovering from tinnitus five years after onset:

I am unsure how I initially missed it too. Some of the soldiers's also had TM perforations. Unfortunately, we find less likelihood of tinnitus going away past the first year when we focus on the more comparable examples.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Unfortunately, we find less likelihood of tinnitus going away past the first year when we focus on the more comparable examples.

Are you talking about any of the studies in that thread? I was going to look through all of the studies to get my hands on the actual numbers, but I thought that perhaps it is a good idea to just ask you to point me to a study. Thank you...