What Do You Think/Know About the Baltic States (Estonia in Particular)?

[Bill Bauer]

Estonia should be friends with Russia. We must not listen to US, England or the EU, whatever. The more foreign military forces are here, the more tension there is.

I have no idea where Estonia would be better off - in the EU or with Russia. What would you choose if the choice were to be between the Russian troops and the EU troops?

 

[david c]

Visited all three of the Baltic States a couple of years back for a nine day visit mainly focused on the capital cities, but also some countryside and coastal towns. All of them were fascinating, diverse places with so much culture and history to explore. Culturally Estonia seems to have a close affinity with Finland I believe. I don't have any strong views on the political situation, though as a NATO member the UK very much stands with all three states in any external threats to their sovereignty.

 

[Vassili]

My understanding might very well be off. Please explain what is wrong with it.

I have mixed feelings about Putin and the EU. I used to be strongly against Putin, but these days I don't know what to think anymore. Putin has already demonstrated (i.e., Georgia and Ukraine) that he is Interested in getting back the former republics. If he is already subject to sanctions, isn't it a real possibility that his long term plan is to push a little more each year? Also, once Putin is gone (he isn't young and life expectancy for Russian men isn't particularly high), Anything can happen, so why shouldn't your politicians hedge that risk?

I can only speak for myself, how I see it. I think that plans considering USSR restoration are utopian. Because a) people already know that USSR experiment failed and they don't want to do it anymore, and b) modern Russia hasn't got the money and power and will to hold such a great territory under her wing. This is why, I think, Putin does not want to recreate USSR. He wants Russia to be strong and he is very slowly moving towards dealing with Russia's internal problems instead of helping other former USSR members who only took amazing amounts of money and resources back in the day. So it means that they only benefited on USSR's money and gave nothing back, actually, and in the end even betrayed Russia. So it means that Russia does not want to repeat this experience and feed former members. I think Putin's successor will lead Russia to this next level (dealing with internal problems and making life in Russia more stable and better). OK, this is one thing. Another thing is that almost all former USSR members are connected historically, economically, culturally. It means that not all former members, but most of them have warm relationships between each other. It all can lead to a creation of a strong economic and cultural union. But at the same time countries will stay independent and they would be very friendly to each other. This could be a form of a very strong coalition. And the third thing is Russia's traditional political influence zone. Georgia, Baltic states, Ukraine etc. NATO, EU, US invade this zone and irritate Russia. It is so funny when NATO performs military training near Russian boarders in Baltic states and then gets surprised when Russians start to perform their military training over the boarder. Well what should Russia do? Sit and watch?

 

[Vassili]

I have no idea where Estonia would be better off - in the EU or with Russia. What would you choose if the choice were to be between the Russian troops and the EU troops?

I would choose no troops. I would choose friendship based on our historical and cultural connections. Because let's be honest, US does not actually care about lots of countries including Estonia. They care only about money and influence. That's it. And I was born here and I will live here all my life. I need a peaceful and quiet life, I don't care about US. I am not a West worshiper.

 

[Vassili]

@Vassili if you are from Estonia, you will be amazed by it. The premise is that a man gets unfrozen and the young man who discovers him realizes that he is from the Stone Age. The young American introduces that guy (дикаря) as a person from Estonia, and other Americans never question it despite him doing things like catching and eating flies.

I think I'll give it a try. Thanks, Bill!!!

 

[all to gain]

@Vassili we see things very differently. I won't continue discussing it as I see no point.
Just one thing, I do know just a little about Russia, i.e. I live there. And I have nothing against the country in the slightest.

Anyway, one day I will visit Estonia again

By the way, is there anywhere I can listen to your band's music? My daughter got really into Karol i Shut... and then so did I LOL

 

[Vassili]

we see things very differently. I won't continue discussing it as I see no point.

It's OK. This is why discussions are held in the first place, aren't they? I actually hate discussing politics. It never led me to anything good. Every person has to have his own opinion and everyone have the right to be wrong.

I do know just a little about Russia, i.e. I live there

Oh really, in what city do you live? When I was younger I went to Russia once a year. Usually to Pskov and St. Petersburg. I have lots of relatives there. And they they all have different opinions. Some hate Putin and say that he kills Russia, some love him, adore him so...everything is like everywhere else.

Anyway, one day I will visit Estonia again

Please do. Tourists are always welcome here.

By the way, is there anywhere I can listen to your band's music?

Go to YouTube and search Cryptica (band name) Unity (song name) or You're Nothing (song name). These are two of my favorite songs. They were played on local Estonian Rock radio. If you like heavier stuff, may be you'll like it.

Music was my hobby. We were not a signed band so we barely made any money. But we played at local bars and Rock festivals. Those were really good times. I dedicated to music almost 10 years of my life and now its over, I think. Due to my tinnitus and hyperacusis I can't do it anymore. I mean, even if I recover I don't think that I will continue with this hobby.

My daughter got really into Karol i Shut... and then so did I LOL

Hah, at firs I've read the band name as Carol I Shot ))))) But then I got it Король и Шут or КИШ as fans call them. It's a great band. When I was a kid I went to Pskov to visit my grandmother and they were touring so we went to see them with my older brother. It was my first Rock concert and I had a blast, I really liked them.

May I ask... um are you originally from the UK? (because you've asked about British troops)

P.S.
Actually, it's really nice to talk to you. I wish you all the best.

 

[Juan]

IMO, the only places that have a reasonable chance of having their standard of living not deteriorating too much are China, Russia, and possibly Australia. Czech Republic, Poland and Hungary might outlast many Western countries, but I don't see that lasting into the long run.

The Czech Republic is doing very well, and I think it is not comparable to the other two, specially Hungary, whose currency is losing value by the day.

Also, politically Bulgaria has taken a better and more intelligent stance than Poland and Hungary. While Poland and Hungary systematically oppose decisions taken in Brussels, Bulgaria systematically sides with Brussels, and now Kristalina Giorgieva heads the IMF.

 

[Juan]

What's the difference between the modern-day France and the modern-day Japan? It's a mystery. We might Never get to know the answer.

Big differences. In Paris just 50 people striking, "en greve", may block one of the main Parisian arteries, and even stop traffic.

In Japan people kill themselves working (literally die at work).

 

[Bill Bauer]

I think that plans considering USSR restoration are utopian.

I don't think Putin wants to restore the USSR. But that doesn't mean that he doesn't want to turn some of those former republics into autonomous regions that are part of Russia.

He wants Russia to be strong and he is very slowly moving towards dealing with Russia's internal problems instead of helping other former USSR members who only took amazing amounts of money and resources back in the day.

I hope you are right, and it is certainly possible/likely that you Are right.

Georgia, Baltic states, Ukraine etc. NATO, EU, US invade this zone and irritate Russia.

Makes sense.

people already know that USSR experiment failed and they don't want to do it anymore

Not the people in the United States (who seem to be in the process of restoring the USSR in America)...

 

[Bill Bauer]

US does not actually care about lots of countries including Estonia.

I used to be a strong US supporter. Now I see that they have a poor track record when it comes to letting down their allies...

I would choose no troops.

Makes sense, but it is possible that this isn't one of the options...

 

[all to gain]

It's OK. This is why discussions are held in the first place, aren't they? I actually hate discussing politics. It never led me to anything good. Every person has to have his own opinion and everyone have the right to be wrong.

Yep, you are spot on.

Oh really, in what city do you live?

I'd rather not name the city. I lived in and around Moscow for many years, but for the last couple I have been living in a provincial city far, far away from the capital.

When I was younger I went to Russia once a year. Usually to Pskov and St. Petersburg. I have lots of relatives there. And they they all have different opinions. Some hate Putin and say that he kills Russia, some love him, adore him so...everything is like everywhere else.

Yeah, I have come across mixed opinions, but I feel his recent change to the constitution may come back to haunt him.

Go to YouTube and search Cryptica (band name) Unity (song name) or You're Nothing (song name). These are two of my favorite songs. They were played on local Estonian Rock radio. If you like heavier stuff, may be you'll like it.

As a youngster I loved heavy stuff, then went more punk, then a jack of all trades. My first loves are still rock and punk though.

I will check your band out, but I may have to listen to it without sound LOL

Hah, at firs I've read the band name as Carol I Shot ))))) But then I got it Король и Шут or КИШ as fans call them. It's a great band. When I was a kid I went to Pskov to visit my grandmother and they were touring so we went to see them with my older brother. It was my first Rock concert and I had a blast, I really liked them.

My daughter was a little heartbroken when I told her that the lead singer died. I would have loved to have seen them live as well.

I really got into a Finnish band called Hanoi Rocks when I was younger, but they had split up, but I got to see them when they reformed.

May I ask... um are you originally from the UK? (because you've asked about British troops)

Yes, I'm originally from the UK, but have spent half my adult life in Russia and some time in the Nordic countries.

Never in my wildest dreams did I think I would live in Russia. I am a child of the Cold War and remember comparing how many tanks NATO and the Warsaw Pact had as a kid.

 

[PeteJ]

I can only speak for myself, how I see it. I think that plans considering USSR restoration are utopian. Because a) people already know that USSR experiment failed and they don't want to do it anymore, and b) modern Russia hasn't got the money and power and will to hold such a great territory under her wing. This is why, I think, Putin does not want to recreate USSR. He wants Russia to be strong and he is very slowly moving towards dealing with Russia's internal problems instead of helping other former USSR members who only took amazing amounts of money and resources back in the day. So it means that they only benefited on USSR's money and gave nothing back, actually, and in the end even betrayed Russia. So it means that Russia does not want to repeat this experience and feed former members. I think Putin's successor will lead Russia to this next level (dealing with internal problems and making life in Russia more stable and better). OK, this is one thing. Another thing is that almost all former USSR members are connected historically, economically, culturally. It means that not all former members, but most of them have warm relationships between each other. It all can lead to a creation of a strong economic and cultural union. But at the same time countries will stay independent and they would be very friendly to each other. This could be a form of a very strong coalition. And the third thing is Russia's traditional political influence zone. Georgia, Baltic states, Ukraine etc. NATO, EU, US invade this zone and irritate Russia. It is so funny when NATO performs military training near Russian boarders in Baltic states and then gets surprised when Russians start to perform their military training over the boarder. Well what should Russia do? Sit and watch?

Neither country wants a conflict though although Russia proved they are willing to engage when they propped up de facto Russian control in Eastern Ukraine. At the very least, they are closer in mentality to NeoSoviet Russia than the rest of Ukraine. Some of the rebels or separatists (call them what you want) are even ethnic Russians! It's a mess over there, corruption, in-fighting and even assassinations.

At least, in the rest of Europe, they just "buy politicians" and keep American soldiers in various (usually EU) countries. The problem in that part of Europe is the citizens sit on their hands and don't care about their country's lack of sovereignty. Instead, they bash the West and the USA online but ironically support their government puppet leaders and politicians.

That's still easier to deal with than an actual occupation and Authoritarian governments that don't give a squat about the citizens. Putin cares about Putin and his clans (pacifying them and his oligarchs). Everyone currently in power right now only cares about themselves and maintaining their power (so they pacify those in their political circles).

 

[PeteJ]

Relevant for this thread, ironically?:

https://www.euronews.com/2020/07/23...istory-to-justify-occupation-of-baltic-states

FWIW, all these countries' leaders are hypocrites talking about 'distorted' history and they all want to be the authority on it. There are strict laws governing what narrative you may use, in Poland, Germany, Russia and probably the other European countries too but those 3 involve punishments for deviations and public questioning of the official narrative. Such "democratic" countries...