Why Advise Against Headphones?

[Gabriel]

First of all, all tinnitus are not noise related, for instance mine.

Second of all, there is no reason a sound from a headphone is more damaging for the ear than some another external sound.
It's just sound making your ear drum vibrate just like any other sound.

There is more danger when it's in-ear earbuds because the pressure is higher so the dB levels are actually higher.

Doctors and articles I've read also say that headphones are not any more dangerous than a speaker, because the pressure is not higher than an external sound and the sound can propagate just like with external sounds.

Once again in the end it's just sound making your eardrum vibrate, there is no different type of sounds or vibration, it's mechanical. It's all about dB...

The people here claiming headphones are dangerous are just people trying to find an explanation for their problem and experiencing nocebo when they are using headphones because they just convince themselves there was a link.

And it's comforting them and giving them a kind of "safe space" to think they are safe if they are not using headphones.

I have been using in-ear earbuds for the last 12 years before tinnitus, and never had any problems, any drop of hearing, any tinnitus afterward, just plain silence. I did have some hearing tests in the past, all came out perfect.

I also have been using in-ear earbuds after my initial onset to mask my tinnitus and it actually made my tinnitus completely disappear at first (and then I messed up again looking for my tinnitus).

So... yeah, claims against headphones are anecdotal and based on nothing but self-beliefs.

 

[Tybs]

Personally, I don't consider headphones and earplugs themselves as a danger, as long as the volume is low. But I stopped using them anyway.

Why? Because of that addendum "as long as the volume is low". The issue here is that I'm simply human, and making a mistake is easy. What if I forget checking earlier volume settings before putting them on? What if that one youtube video has a ridiculously loud sound level for no reason? What if...

One accident could be one too much already, maybe permanently. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it is wise to overthink about every possible thing that could aggravate tinnitus. But headphones are completely unnecessary (in my case at least). I can use any kind of speaker I want, and with the studio microphone that I bought, I can still use Skype and everything without having my contacts hearing their own echo. Should there be a sound "accident", then at least the sound will spread amongst the environment instead of laser-focusing my eardrums.

So, the main argument for me: easy and logical to avoid, therefore I see no reason to use them

 

[Fifth Business]

hell yes the doctor has logged in


https://onezero.medium.com/why-airp...-especially-bad-for-your-hearing-20f32b6e02e2

 

[bobvann]

I can attest that using WNGs is no different than headphones / ear buds for me at least. I am having to stop my trial due to increased reaction, headaches & ear pain. Like a lot have said, it is different for many of us.

The pink noise levels were set really low by the Audiologist. So obviously volume was not the issue.

 

[mark998]

I hate seeing this. It's so meaningless. Depending on the headphones and the source, that could be really, really loud.

I do use headphones though... IEMs at low volume. They isolate very well and so it's possible to use them at a low/very low volume even in a noisy environment, and perhaps that compensates to some extent or fully for the fact that they are IEMs and any increased pressure/whatever that brings. On the train, when I take them off, the ambient noise is usually much louder than the music.

 

[Fifth Business]

View attachment 35910

I hate seeing this. It's so meaningless. Depending on the headphones and the source, that could be really, really loud.

I do use headphones though... IEMs at low volume.

Same (re IEMs) & almost entirely agree.

Just to say those were snips from the article linked by a guy who also posted this:

Why play with fire if you know you can get burnt?

I mean, I really do think in our profession (I'm a doctor too) that a best practice would be to be to avoid using dumb, bloviating metaphors that you try to substantiate with an article you pulled up with a very perfunctory google search that doesn't speak to your point at all.

 

[Fifth Business]

View attachment 35910
I do use headphones though...

Wait disregard my earlier post. LISTEN UP BUCKO. You're playing with fire and you need to GROW UP and get with reality! You have TINNITUS. One day you'll realize this: you can ignore reality, but you won't be able to ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. And buddy? The reality is this: you got the 'T'. You'll regret this!

 

[HeavyMantra]

Most people i'd say can tell if something is too loud.. most of us were just stupid and didn't know T could happen.

But yeah fair call

I was very aware of tinnitus since my sister got it from a show when I was like 8. She was crying for weeks (fully recovered later) so I was afraid of it from the start. Never went to a show without earplugs, was appalled at how loud my friends were listening to music (speakers and headphones), never played drums or did anything loud at all ever without earplugs.

And I still somehow managed to misjudge what my ears could handle: I thought I was safe with my in-ear headphones. I never felt like I played them loud, and my iPod indicated that I was within safe limits and so on. Yet, here I am with a pretty bad case of tinnitus.

How can this be? I have no idea. All I can think of is that in-ear headphones must be dangerous in a way that might not seem logical. Perhaps sound pressure levels was the culprit in my case rather than dB-levels. Or was it that the headphones produced a lot of high frequency information that was somehow dangerous?

Who knows. I don't even know if I got tinnitus from noise or not! But I do know that I'll never use headphones again.

 

[HeavyMantra]

I also have been using in-ear earbuds after my initial onset to mask my tinnitus and it actually made my tinnitus completely disappear at first (and then I messed up again looking for my tinnitus).

So... yeah, claims against headphones are anecdotal and based on nothing but self-beliefs.

Or maybe your tinnitus came back because you used headphones?

Almost all claims about tinnitus are anecdotal and based on self-beliefs, including yours.

I see what you mean though. My mild T disappeared the first time. Then during a mushroom trip, I heard it again because I was meditating in silence for hours. It has stayed since then. I still don't know if it came back because of a possible noise trauma one week before (headphones), or if noticing it in such a deep mental state on a drug known for re-wiring neural pathways was what cemented my tinnitus. So little is known both about tinnitus and psychedelics that I guess I'll wonder about this for years to come

 

[Fifth Business]

over-ear monitors cranked up so to hear the rest of the band while drumming is what did me in.

So yeah. Obviously don't do that.

Edit: and a million shows and shooting guns (insert american cowboy emoji) with insufficient protection. This is how I developed a condition that a billion others also have (I really did deal with it very, very poorly at first though).

 

[bobvann]

I was very aware of tinnitus since my sister got it from a show when I was like 8. She was crying for weeks (fully recovered later) so I was afraid of it from the start. Never went to a show without earplugs, was appalled at how loud my friends were listening to music (speakers and headphones), never played drums or did anything loud at all ever without earplugs.

And I still somehow managed to misjudge what my ears could handle: I thought I was safe with my in-ear headphones. I never felt like I played them loud, and my iPod indicated that I was within safe limits and so on. Yet, here I am with a pretty bad case of tinnitus.

How can this be? I have no idea. All I can think of is that in-ear headphones must be dangerous in a way that might not seem logical. Perhaps sound pressure levels was the culprit in my case rather than dB-levels. Or was it that the headphones produced a lot of high frequency information that was somehow dangerous?

Who knows. I don't even know if I got tinnitus from noise or not! But I do know that I'll never use headphones again.

Interestingly enough playing drums caused less of a reaction than using WNGs.

My logic to this is that I was using industrial cans or in-ear custom molds when drumming. With WNGs you have tiny ear buds right inside your ear canal.

I understand the theory is the broad band noise sounds are supposed to desensitize hyperacusis and tinnitus. But don't think it is a given. I am unable to build up tolerance.

Drumming did give me a reaction every time which is why I wound up stopping but drumming never did affect my baseline like the WNGs have after a month. I hope by forgoing them it will settle down again.

This is not meant to bash WNGs in general. Just the experience I have had with them on a few occasions.

I may be able to drum again. The manager at my local music store is really cool and I consider him a friend. I drop in play on an e-kit through a floor monitor that is not directly pointed at me with custom ear molds. I have a really nice vintage Tama Grandstar with Zildjan K's and Paitse 2002's but it's probably time to hang up acoustic drums.

 

[Fifth Business]

who remembers

 

[Jcb]

View attachment 35914

who remembers

Britney does

 

[Michael Leigh]

Some of the people on this thread are trying to convince themselves that using headphones at low volume is safe. Or that their tinnitus wasn't caused by loud noise. If you have oversensitivity to sound or hyperacusis, then your tinnitus was caused by headphone use or exposure to loud noise. Oversensitivity to sound/hyperacusis often accompanies Noise induced tinnitus.

People that acquired tinnitus from an underlying medical problem within the auditory system, are not as likely to suffer from hyperacusis although it is possible. If you have noise induced tinnitus and use headphones even at low volume, do so at your own risk. The facts are: if your tinnitus spikes while using them or you subject your auditory system to overly loud sounds. By this I mean: clubbing and going to concerts where loud music is played even wearing earplugs, your tinnitus may spike and increase to new permanent level.

It is your choice.

Michael

 

[Lane]

If you have oversensitivity to sound or hyperacusis, then your tinnitus was caused by headphone use or exposure to loud noise.

@Michael Leigh -- I've visited ME/CFS forums for years, and many with CFS have some pretty profound sensory processing issues, with extreme sensitivity to sound being one of the most common. I've never gotten the impression this sensitivity primarily occurred from a noise trauma, but more often after some other kind of traumatic event.

These traumatic events usually involved some kind of chronic infection, but it could also be from other traumas as well, like vaccinations, chemical exposures, mold exposures, etc. -- I've always been quite protective of my ears, never went to concerts, never used headphones or earbuds, but I still ended up with a severe case of hyperacusis, which preceded my tinnitus onset two years ago.

With the onset of tinnitus, my hyperacusis became about 2-3x worse, but has now retreated back to a baseline of what it's been for the past 20+ years, and which I consider to be severe. -- I believe my own ME/CFS and hyperacusis had its genesis in a serious head injury/whiplash I had at age 15. I think the main factor from that accident was its impact on my cranial nerves--especially the vagus nerve--which is connected so directly with the ears via the auricular branches of the vagus nerve.

 

[bobvann]

What happens in Vagus stays in Vagus

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Lane

Thank you for your post.
I do not know what ME/CFS refer to so but believe everything that you have said. A lot of the people in this forum (but not all) acquired tinnitus from using headphones at too high a volume and for long durations. Others got their tinnitus from attending venues where loud music was played: clubbing, concerts or playing a musical instrument in a band. There are other forms of exposure to loud noise, but the three I have mentioned are quite common causes of noise induced tinnitus.

My tinnitus resulted from using headphones at too high a volume without realizing it. Therefore, noise induced tinnitus is what I am familiar with.

Thank you once again for your post.
All the best

Michael

 

[Tybs]

@Lane

Thank you for your post.
I do not know what ME/CFS refer to so but believe everything that you have said. A lot of the people in this forum (but not all) acquired tinnitus from using headphones at too high a volume and for long durations. Others got their tinnitus from attending venues where loud music was played: clubbing, concerts or playing a musical instrument in a band. There are other forms of exposure to loud noise, but the three I have mentioned are quite common causes of noise induced tinnitus.

My tinnitus resulted from using headphones at too high a volume without realizing it. Therefore, noise induced tinnitus is what I am familiar.

Thank you once again for your post.
All the best

Michael

In some articles I have read, it was mentioned that T works cumulatively: like it is the "sum" of signals from all kinds of sources (ear, muscles, neck, etc.). I wouldn't be surprised if these signals all play a role in hyperacusis as well. For a long time since onset, my T was competing with external frequencies, despite it not being sound-induced.

Luckily, this is no longer an issue: my hyperacusis went down with pretty much the same speed as my T once I started my treatments. It used to respond to almost every frequency with high effect, but now only a few frequencies are left (I'd say 4 or 5), and with very minor effect. Quite curious as to how this phenomena works exactly, though I do have some theories of my own. Wish I wrote down some of the sources I read about this, it has been a while...

That said, I still agree that headphones carry a risk that is not worth it to take.

 

[PeteJ]

The need for scientific validation frustrates at times. Just because there hasn't been a paper published, it doesn't invalidate the testimonies of many who have experienced something.

It seems common sense to not stick something into your ears to play sound that close to your eardrum when you have a noise-induced condition.

I know your post is a year old but this topic is always brought up.

Everyone's ears and threshold is different. One could use headphones at low volume but then how do you know what volume and duration is acceptable? I don't profess to know and I don't advocate do or don't. I just think it's a bit risky and I want to avoid my tinnitus getting worse and I don't know what would do that.

I would only use them if they are needed for a research treatment.

 

[Michael Leigh]

That said, I still agree that headphones carry a risk that is not worth it to take.

I am pleased to hear that your tinnitus and hyperacusis has improved and I hope it continues to do so. Most of my posts are for people that have Noise induced tinnitus. As I have already mentioned there are three typical things that cause it for a lot of people that attended tinnitus forum. I know this because I visit other tinnitus forums the majority of people got their tinnitus due to headphone use, clubbing, concerts or playing a musical instrument in a band.

I have noticed people with noise induced tinnitus who have successfully habituated, often notice their tinnitus becoming worse if they return to using headphones. This may not happen immediately but over time. Some people get a sudden spike and usually the tinnitus will increase to a new permanent level. I believe it's just not worth the risk using them. I know some people with noise induced tinnitus, use headphones and don't have a problem. However, the risk is always there and I think it's playing Russian roulette with your health. Knowing how debilitating tinnitus can be, why anyone with noise induced tinnitus want to use headphones is beyond me.

I have talked to people on the telephone that have noise induced tinnitus and successfully habituated. They returned to using headphones after following advice from people at tinnitus forums, their ENT doctor or Audiologist, who all say: using headphones at low volume is safe. These people are in turmoil and an emotional wreck, often in tears because of the distress the tinnitus is causing them.

Michael

 

[astaff14]

The new iPhones have a feature in the health app where it tells you exactly how many dB your music is at. I'm listening right now at about 30% volume and it says it's at 64 dB.

 

[Lilah]

My fear with headphones is that they will accidentally blast in my ears one day, so I've avoided them altogether.

 

[aot]

The new iPhones have a feature in the health app where it tells you exactly how many dB your music is at. I'm listening right now at about 30% volume and it says it's at 64 dB.

Are you listening with earbuds?

64 dB sounds safe on paper. (And from most phone speakers, I'm sure it is.) But there's difference between someone speaking from a foot or two away, and someone speaking literally straight into your ear. At least that's how I see it.

 

[Jack Straw]

The new iPhones have a feature in the health app where it tells you exactly how many dB your music is at. I'm listening right now at about 30% volume and it says it's at 64 dB.

Is this with the AirPods only or any Apple headphones? This is in the Health app? I am very interested, please explain more.

 

[astaff14]

Is this with the AirPods only or any Apple headphones? This is in the Health app? I am very interested, please explain more.

The app says that it's best with any Apple earphones or Beats headphones, other ones can still be estimated but not as accurately I guess.

 

[Jack Straw]

View attachment 36749
The app says that it's best with any Apple earphones or Beats headphones, other ones can still be estimated but not as accurately I guess.

This is very useful thanks!!!!!!!

 

[Jack V]

I've been flip flopping on this, reading the vehement arguments for and against.

I'm currently in the "headphones are OK if used correctly" camp.

First, the idea of pumping sound in your ear from a hearing aid can also be achieved through headphones or earbuds. Really, what's the difference?

Second, noise-canceling headphones provide additional, valuable protection for your ears.

Third, there are headphones which offer additional layers of protection (e.g. separate volume and equalization controls for each side; limiters preventing spikes above a certain threshold; etc.)

Finally, there's no fundamental difference between external speakers or headphones as long as you're careful about volume levels with both.

I recently had to fly and used Bose noise cancelling headphones to block out most of the aircraft sound, and also used them to watch movies. I had the volume very soft, and turned on captions so I could follow the film without needing to turn up the volume above a whisper.

 

[Orions Pain]

I don't think headphones themselves are a huge risk if you're a responsible user, so you monitor not only your volume but your time exposure as well.

Even at safe volumes, I can't imagine our ears enjoy having sound waves pounding in there at hours on the end. I'm a strong believer in that things that don't exist in nature can all pose threats to our bodies in some way or another (technology I mean)

Also another issue is that many headphone users happen to love music, meaning that we're more likely to go to concerts, festivals, clubs, etc to catch our favorite people live.

Plus the points that others brought up with them accidentally blasting in your ear which might not cause immediate tinnitus but it will certainly be added to your list of offenders.

Again, I think that someone who uses headphones for their 20 min commute at safeness volumes a couple times a week isn't likely to see adverse effects, but then you have people who wear them for 8 hours at work, keep them on in their commute, wear them to the gym, etc etc and the damage simply adds up. Not to mention the fact that it's so easy to turn up music in loud environments and not even notice

For example, I have a train system that runs through my city which can reach up to 90-100 dB's when it peaks. I can only imagine how loud people have to turn up standard headphones to drown out that noise (unless you're wearing a pair of ANC headphones).

 

[Lane]

you monitor not only your volume but your time exposure as well.

@Orions Pain -- There's a third factor you may not have considered; vibrations. It's appeared to me that vibrations are likely a reason why some people get or exacerbate tinnitus from headphone use, even when volume is low and exposure time is limited. There are reports of people getting tinnitus from noise cancelling headphones, where there's no sound produced, and outside sounds seems to be much quieter. It's a mystery why some people are so sensitive to whatever headphones does to our hearing apparatus, even at low volume.

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Orions Pain -- There's a third factor you may not have considered; vibrations. It's appeared to me that vibrations are likely a reason why some people get or exacerbate tinnitus from headphone use, even when volume is low and exposure time is limited. There are reports of people getting tinnitus from noise cancelling headphones, where there's no sound produced, and outside sounds seems to be much quieter. It's a mystery why some people are so sensitive to whatever headphones does to our hearing apparatus, even at low volume.

Well said @Lane

Some of the comments on this thread by members who are supposedly in distress with noise induced tinnitus or have experienced it when severe, leave me utterly bewildered. Wanting to use or risk using headphones when so many people in this forum, report bad experiences using these dangerous devices.

They will learn but the hard way and the experience painful.

Michael