Why Are Hyperacusis Sufferers Such a Small Minority?

[Juan]

Depends on your environment. One of my neices is deaf from birth and has a disabled father and a mentally handicapped brother. Yet she ended up being highly educated, having a loving (and deaf as well) husband with two wonderful kids (one deaf, one hearing) that can attend school without any problems. They can drive the car in traffic and are fully independent in whatever way. She all owes it to her parents: her mother in practical ways, to the point of attending classes with her so she could translate, and her father in the mental areas, like a wise man she could always go to whenever there was an issue.

I grew up in a wonderful family myself, but this one always set an example for me of what self-sacrifice means once there are children involved. My aunt did pretty much anything in the household, including taking care of her MS-struck husband who soon could not work or help around anymore. Haven't heard her complain even once, she took everything life threw at her and destroyed any barriers they encountered.

But to attend to your point... if given the choice, I'd prefer the situation of my neice above having severe tinnitus, assuming a cure isn't around the corner. Silence is golden.

It is a great example of achievement!

What does your niece do? What's her job?

 

[FGG]

Predictive brain - an undesirable genetic trait. A normal brain should not aquire tinnitus/hyperacusis.

Did you read Bao's Arizona study by any chance? When they injected TNF alpha directly into the auditory cortex then it caused much less neuroinflammation than when there wasn't cochlear damage.

I.e: it was the cochlear damage itself perpetuating the neuroinflammation not damage "unleashing damage upon an abnormal brain."

And what I mean by susceptibility is this: some people are more prone to tinnitus than others because of having certain brain characteristics. Just like some people are more prone to Alzheimer's. That tendency isn't an "abnormal brain" until disease sets it.

And again, even without this tendency if you are exposed to enough insults you would get tinnitus, too it's just less likely in some brains just like anyone can get Alzheimer's even without a family history.

 

[FGG]

You totally misinterpreted the study.
It was once thought tinnitus was purely caused by environmental factors (noise, meds), but now it's clear that genetics play a major role in who acquires tinnitus.

With respect, I think you have. The article (which had a broken link to the actual study) said the study concluded there is a genetic component, not just a genetic cause. Affected people still have to have an environmental insult.

 

[FGG]

@dan, I can actually illustrate my point with a personal anecdote.

This is a photo of me and my identical twin (with Slash and as teenagers--sorry about the quality, I took a photo of my analog photo). Full disclosure, we are among the smaller percentage of "mirror twins" resulting from a particular kind of egg division so we differ in left/right handedness (and as a result, personalities and abilities a lot more than most twins) *but* we have the same set of genes and she works in the music industry--never wears ear plugs, either--and lives in an extremely noisy apartment in a very large city and has zero tinnitus. She is literally constantly exposed to loud noise.

I never had tinnitus either until I took ototoxic meds. If all tinnitus was due to genetic predisposition for a damaged brain, there is no way my sister wouldn't also have it.

 

[all to gain]

@dan, I can actually illustrate my point with a personal anecdote.

This is a photo of me and my identical twin (with Slash and as teenagers--sorry about the quality, I took a photo of my analog photo). Full disclosure, we are among the smaller percentage of "mirror twins" resulting from a particular kind of egg division so we differ in left/right handedness (and as a result, personalities and abilities a lot more than most twins) *but* we have the same set of genes and she works in the music industry--never wears ear plugs, either--and lives in an extremely noisy apartment in a very large city and has zero tinnitus. She is literally constantly exposed to loud noise.

I never had tinnitus either until I took ototoxic meds. If all tinnitus was due to genetic predisposition for a damaged brain, there is no way my sister wouldn't also have it.

Slash almost looks like a cardboard cutout in that photo LOL.

I saw GnR live in 91. First ever concert.

 

[FGG]

Slash almost looks like a cardboard cutout in that photo LOL.

I saw GnR live in 91. First ever concert.

I know, it photographed super weird.

Additional proof below!

 

[all to gain]

I know, it photographed super weird.

Additional proof below!

No additional proof needed, I believe you

 

[Orions Pain]

With severe hyperacusis I could hear perfectly with Peltors and earplugs. It is painful to work but it can be done. I have been working almost consistently, with short periods of medical leave when the pain was just too much to bear.

It is my personal opinion that not being able to hear would be better than being in severe pain from something you can't avoid unless you stay at home. I'm sure everyone differs on this.

To me - hearing is of no use to me if noise causes me distress. I would rather be able to enjoy the world and communicate via sign language than have to worry about sound causing me pain and anxiety and isolating me even more.

It's like having taste buds and having everything you eat taste terrible. Yeah you can still eat, but if it causes you distress it isn't an enjoyable experience.

 

[Orions Pain]

They aren't. Most normies suffering don't even join tinnitus forums. They just follow TRT protocol and suffer.

I wonder how many more people actually have hyperacusis that don't seek help online, especially younger ones who turn to the internet for everything.

 

[Contrast]

I wonder how many more people actually have hyperacusis that don't seek help online, especially younger ones who turn to the internet for everything.

They never did their homework. They never bothered to understand the unspoken meta.

They are just exercising self guilt and wondering why TRT isn't working for them.

 

[Orions Pain]

@dan, I can actually illustrate my point with a personal anecdote.

This is a photo of me and my identical twin (with Slash and as teenagers--sorry about the quality, I took a photo of my analog photo). Full disclosure, we are among the smaller percentage of "mirror twins" resulting from a particular kind of egg division so we differ in left/right handedness (and as a result, personalities and abilities a lot more than most twins) *but* we have the same set of genes and she works in the music industry--never wears ear plugs, either--and lives in an extremely noisy apartment in a very large city and has zero tinnitus. She is literally constantly exposed to loud noise.

I never had tinnitus either until I took ototoxic meds. If all tinnitus was due to genetic predisposition for a damaged brain, there is no way my sister wouldn't also have it.

1.) That is so awesome that you are a twin!!

2.) I LOVE Slash! Wonder what kind of noises he has in his head lol

 

[Christopher805]

There is no history of tinnitus or any hearing problems in my family both paternally and maternally. My hearing was excellent for my age, then took ototoxic med got tinnitus.

 

[Orions Pain]

There is no history of tinnitus or any hearing problems in my family both paternally and maternally. My hearing was excellent for my age, then took ototoxic med got tinnitus.

Same. I've had two surgeries recently, one summer 2018 and another 2019, both which required prescription pain killers for a couple weeks. While my main damage is from concerts I'm sure this added to it.

 

[Juan]

It is my personal opinion that not being able to hear would be better than being in severe pain from something you can't avoid unless you stay at home. I'm sure everyone differs on this.

I just bear the pain...

To me - hearing is of no use to me if noise causes me distress. I would rather be able to enjoy the world and communicate via sign language than have to worry about sound causing me pain and anxiety and isolating me even more.

For that you need to know other people who use sign language, it's not that common.

 

[Christopher805]

Same. I've had two surgeries recently, one summer 2018 and another 2019, both which required prescription pain killers for a couple weeks. While my main damage is from concerts I'm sure this added to it.

It makes me wonder if ingesting ototoxic antibiotics can make folks who are exposed to loud sounds such as concerts more susceptible to tinnitus. I also wonder can a HC be damaged but not to the point of causing tinnitus? If yes, the person is walking around with damaged hair cells, then gets exposed to loud noise and wham tinnitus. Heck I do not know. LOL. This whole tinnitus, brain ear connection thing is baffling. I pray that FX-322 hits the market sooner than expected.

 

[Orions Pain]

I just bear the pain...

For that you need to know other people who use sign language, it's not that common.

Like I said, we all differ on our opinions.
To me, pain is worse, to others, it might not be.

 

[dan]

I never had tinnitus either until I took ototoxic meds. If all tinnitus was due to genetic predisposition for a damaged brain, there is no way my sister wouldn't also have it.

So logic dictates that loud music does not trigger tinnitus in your brains, but ototoxic meds will.
Hence, I will bet your twin sister with exact genetic makeup as yourself, would get tinnitus if exposed to the same med that you took.
Ok, "genetic predisposition" to acquire tinnitus... that is in itself a genetic defect. Kapish?
A perfect human brain should not have ANY predispositions to any disease.

 

[dan]

Affected people still have to have an environmental insult.

I never said they didn't. BTW, ototoxic meds count as an environmental insult.
So I make easy for you to understand what new research has found:

Genetic predisposition + Environmental insult = tinnitus/hyperacusis.

 

[FGG]

I never said they didn't. BTW, ototoxic meds count as an environmental insult.
So I make easy for you to understand what new research has found:

Genetic predisposition + Environmental insult = tinnitus/hyperacusis.

I agree with your equation but not your brain damage ascertain. I think the only thing you can say is tinnitus can (but not always, as your own link even said explicitly) have a genetic predisposition to occur after environmental insult. This is absolutely not because the brain is damaged to start with.

And what's with the tone, dude. Geez.

 

[dan]

I agree with your equation but not your brain damage ascertain.

There are also many studies showing people with tinnitus have less gray matter than normies... is that not brain damage?

Ok let's call it brain fuck-up.

Ah who gives a shit... I'm just a pathetic loser with severe tinnitus hanging on tinnitus forum.

 

[FGG]

There are also many studies showing people with tinnitus have less gray matter than normies... is that not brain damage?

Ok let's call it brain fuck-up.

Ah who gives a shit... I'm just a pathetic loser with severe tinnitus hanging on tinnitus forum.

I'm really not trying to argue semantics but I would say the changes you describe are neuroplastic changes. I guess it would be fair to say "damaged" in that sense at least but this would likely be reversible if an underlying cause was addressed (would love to see a study where the people who resolve their tinnitus after TMJ treatment or CI use in some cases get repeat imaging) and doesn't imply an underlying damaged brain. The last part is where I disagreed with you.

To be clearer about my point, I think of it type 2 diabetes, some people get it at 250lbs, some people 500lbs. Some people never get it no matter how obese they get. There was nothing inherently functionally wrong with the insulin receptors in any of these group until the body couldn't handle the physiologic changes.

I believe though fixing the underlying damage would reverse the neuroplasticity otherwise no one would ever get rid of their tinnitus and people do.

 

[Orions Pain]

There are also many studies showing people with tinnitus have less gray matter than normies... is that not brain damage?

Ok let's call it brain fuck-up.

Ah who gives a shit... I'm just a pathetic loser with severe tinnitus hanging on tinnitus forum.

So essentially we were doomed anyways, is what I'm getting.

 

[dan]

I'm really not trying to argue semantics but I would say the changes you describe are neuroplastic changes. I guess it would be fair to say "damaged" in that sense at least but this would likely be reversible if an underlying cause was addressed (would love to see a study where the people who resolve their tinnitus after TMJ treatment or CI use in some cases get repeat imaging) and doesn't imply an underlying damaged brain. The last part is where I disagreed with you.

To be clearer about my point, I think of it type 2 diabetes, some people get it at 250lbs, some people 500lbs. Some people never get it no matter how obese they get. There was nothing inherently functionally wrong with the insulin receptors in any of these group until the body couldn't handle the physiologic changes.

I believe though fixing the underlying damage would reverse the neuroplasticity otherwise no one would ever get rid of their tinnitus and people do.

I agree it most likely is reversible if hearing is regenerated.

 

[dan]

So essentially we were doomed anyways, is what I'm getting.

Until they can regenerate hearing....

 

[Orions Pain]

Until they can regenerate hearing....

Can that fix the "brain damage" part of it though, is the real question.

Each day I wonder if me getting electrocuted slightly as a kid, or accidentally banging my head on cement did more damage that I thought.

Or perhaps that night when I got water in my it ear and did all this crazy head maneuvers to get it out, I damaged something in the process as well.

 

[RishRamsey]

It is my personal opinion that not being able to hear would be better than being in severe pain from something you can't avoid unless you stay at home. I'm sure everyone differs on this.

To me - hearing is of no use to me if noise causes me distress. I would rather be able to enjoy the world and communicate via sign language than have to worry about sound causing me pain and anxiety and isolating me even more.

It's like having taste buds and having everything you eat taste terrible. Yeah you can still eat, but if it causes you distress it isn't an enjoyable experience.

Just wondering, why don't you use earplugs? I think you can do all the normal humane things with good earplugs. Like you would use sign language to accommodate for your hearing loss, why not use earplugs to accommodate for your hyperacusis?

 

[Orions Pain]

Just wondering, why don't you use earplugs? I think you can do all the normal humane things with good earplugs. Like you would use sign language to accommodate for your hearing loss, why not use earplugs to accommodate for your hyperacusis?

What makes you think I don't use ear plugs?

 

[Autumnly]

I think you can do all the normal humane things with good earplugs.

Depending on the severity of pain-hyperacusis, even earplugs and earmuffs won't offer enough hearing protection to prevent setbacks.

With severe hyperacusis I could hear perfectly with Peltors and earplugs. It is painful to work but it can be done.

Many people with pain-hyperacusis can't work or do other normal everyday activities even with hearing protection because they'd experience (severe) setbacks. Also, depending on how loud someone's tinnitus is or how severe their hearing loss is, they aren't able to understand other people while wearing earplugs and/or earmuffs.

 

[MrCrybaby]

So logic dictates that loud music does not trigger tinnitus in your brains, but ototoxic meds will.
Hence, I will bet your twin sister with exact genetic makeup as yourself, would get tinnitus if exposed to the same med that you took.
Ok, "genetic predisposition" to acquire tinnitus... that is in itself a genetic defect. Kapish?
A perfect human brain should not have ANY predispositions to any disease.

I understand your argument, but look at any repetitive motion injury to see that when the body is used not a intended (for example working an assembly line or listening to very loud sounds) it will degrade in an abnormal way. The ear was not designed to be damaged, and the brain was not meant to receive incomplete signals.

 

[FGG]

Can that fix the "brain damage" part of it though, is the real question.

Each day I wonder if me getting electrocuted slightly as a kid, or accidentally banging my head on cement did more damage that I thought.

Or perhaps that night when I got water in my it ear and did all this crazy head maneuvers to get it out, I damaged something in the process as well.

Neuroplasticity isn't "stuck" in one direction. Personally, I wouldn't look at it like classical brain damage. If the ear damage can be reversed, maladaptive neuroplasticity should reverse.

An example of maladaptive neuroplasticity reversing: phantom limb pain being treated with "mirror therapy".