Why Is There Such a Stigma About Cognitive Behavioural Therapy?

[fishbone]

It's the same with mine. It fluctuates. Strange thing is when it's near silent I can still feel quite an annoying reaction all the same. Other times it's like Dr. Hubbard states in his videos it can feel like you are beating it one day following by getting your head ripped off and/or really intrusive the next. Today is a "better" day. I just got back from a workout and it has not altered it much. Spikes a bit during being at the gym but then settles back down.

If I am having a spazz day then it just remains as such. OT My Les Paul is pretty sweet!

You are blessed as well then, I have intense intrusive level, each second I live. No rest at all, from the aggression of this tinnitus. Enjoy that guitar

 

[JohnAdams]

I'd give anything to have a near silent minute, you are so blessed @JohnAdams

And I feel lucky in that regard considering even a little more exposure could have put me in a non-fluctuating situation.

It's like mentally swimming through a stormy sea and getting to take breaks on floating logs.

 

[PeteJ]

This excerpt you quote is really terrible advice. It is part of the Tinnitus Establishment's many unsubstantiated claims about tinnitus and one of the reasons why we have made so little progress in terms of research. I was able to habituate to tinnitus precisely because I ignored this advice - take great care around events which are likely to have loud noise exposure implications, always have a pair or earplugs to hand and ensure that your exposure to any loud noise event is of as short a duration as possible.

Take great care? It's difficult to control noise that you are exposed to.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

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CBT is a treatment for the mental distress associated with literally anything. It's not a treatment for any disease or life issue as much as it is a way to live your best life in spite of said issues.

So, yeah. It's pretty much this. Why is this an issue?

 

[JohnAdams]

CBT is a treatment for the mental distress associated with literally anything. It's not a treatment for any disease or life issue as much as it is a way to live your best life in spite of said issues.

So, yeah. It's pretty much this. Why is this an issue?

Because people call it a treatment for tinnitus, and some of the researchers that promote it are dangerous.

 

[all to gain]

Then you should be fighting to get medicine that might help you my friend.

How? It's easy to say, but hard to do.

I think it's hard to do anything else but try to cope when tinnitus is severe. I know, mine is. My whole existence revolves around getting through the day. Plus, I think, many of us feel that we can't do much in regards to furthering research etc as we are seen as just another statistic.

 

[JohnAdams]

How? It's easy to say, but hard to do.

I think it's hard to do anything else but try to cope when tinnitus is severe. I know, mine is. My whole existence revolves around getting through the day. Plus, I think, many of us feel that we can't do much in regards to furthering research etc as we are seen as just another statistic.

How did the HIV community get their hands on experimental drugs?

 

[all to gain]

How did the HIV community get their hands on experimental drugs?

Yeah, but there was a very vocal group of people who could play the discrimination card, and the photos of people dying of AIDS were very in your face. Tinnitus doesn't have those 'advantages'.

 

[bobvann]

I do take part in a mindfulness weekly 1/2 hour session they have every Thursday at work every so often. If I am "Tinnitusing" that day it will carry on.. It is a pain in my life as well. Luckily it only deprives me from drumming so far..

 

[Lane]

Because people call it a treatment for tinnitus

As far as I'm aware, not a single person on this forum has ever said such a thing, including @Ed209 who started this thread. And yet you continually cause all kinds of grief for him and literally anybody else who even mentions CBT, no matter the context. -- So why is it that you (incredulously) continue to take your anger at the "people who call it a treatment" out on those forum members who have never said it is? It's really quite bizarre.

 

[JohnAdams]

As far as I'm aware, not a single person on this forum has ever said such a thing, including @Ed209 who started this thread. And yet you continually cause all kinds of grief for him and literally anybody else who even mentions CBT, no matter the context. -- So why is it that you (incredulously) continue to take your anger at the "people who call it a treatment" out on those forum members who have never said it is? It's really quite bizarre.

Pretty much everything you just wrote is a lie.

 

[bobvann]

Actually it was offered and mentioned a "treatment" possibility at the tinnitus info sessions from my local authority. An audiologist who more or less refused to work with me after I told him I had a prior failure attempting TRT (prolly cause I referred the them as "Snake Oilists") with another clinic stated "Perhaps you should try CBT." John is not completely wrong. I wish I would have found this forum prior to attempting it. I would have saved me some $$

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Pretty much everything you just wrote is a lie.

I haven't seen anyone claim that it is a tinnitus treatment that reduces actual ringing, ever. Not once. Not by either of the two CBTs that I saw.

I think you're taking things too literally.

Literally every doctor or therapist out there starts the conversation with "there is no cure for tinnitus currently". I'm amazed you are so against this but also still so active on the "sound that cured my tinnitus" thread that's full of obviously fake testimonials.

 

[Tybs]

Literally every doctor or therapist out there starts the conversation with "there is no cure for tinnitus currently".

If true, then this is another problem in itself, since that statement is not true for most subtypes of tinnitus causes. Valid for hearing loss of course, but patients without hearing loss should be properly diagnosed for their own type, as quite a bit of them are treatable.

 

[just1morething]

there is no cure for tinnitus currently

This website has 8 people that had total tinnitus remission. It is also on Tinnitus Talk home page under videos.



I went to sleep quiet and woke up with static hissing that I don't think any amount of CBT can help. It might be a sleep apnea problem, possibly TMJ/neck, or some brain thing? I might get a new CPAP machine and see if that helps. I've been using an oral appliance with bands on it. Noise really makes me irritable and ruins the start of a day. I had 2 days of virtual quiet so today is a big disappointment.

 

[bobvann]

I used a CPAP (prior to tinnitus) only to find out I did not have sleep apnea. I just use a custom made dental appliance to reduce snoring. I am having a few bad days following a good one too.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

This website has 8 people that had total tinnitus remission. It is also on Tinnitus Talk home page under videos.



I went to sleep quiet and woke up with static hissing that I don't think any amount of CBT can help. It might be a sleep apnea problem, possibly TMJ/neck, or some brain thing? I might get a new CPAP machine and see if that helps. I've been using an oral appliance with bands on it. Noise really makes me irritable and ruins the start of a day. I had 2 days of virtual quiet so today is a big disappointment.

My tinnitus has faded tremendously. Some days I really can't hear it at all, and sometimes that lasts weeks.

That doesn't translate to a cure.

Best of luck to you though!

 

[Backpacker]

Literally every doctor or therapist out there starts the conversation with "there is no cure for tinnitus currently"

Not really.

 

[bobvann]

My tinnitus has faded tremendously. Some days I really can't hear it at all, and sometimes that lasts weeks.

That doesn't translate to a cure.

Best of luck to you though!

Awesome! I know lot of folks habituate, some of us just don't. This is the fallout I had with the previous forum I was on.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Awesome! I know lot of folks habituate, some of us just don't. This is the fallout I had with the previous forum I was on.

I'm totally habituated but I also had to redefine what habituation is. By my original definition, nobody ever habituates.

For example - I thought habituation meant I basically forgot I had tinnitus. That's anything but true. Reality is more - I think about it multiple times a day. When I first wake up. When I lay down at night. When I enter a bathroom.

One that really irks me - When we get in the totally quiet car and my wife fiddles with her phone for 3 mins to get GPS rather than just starting the damn car and providing that sweet background noise (lol) and then gets mad at me when I lose my patience and ask her to just push the button.

Reasonably my tinnitus isn't intrusive anymore. It really only is audible in dead silence. While I'd rather not hear it - when I do its just a minor inconvenience. I consider myself habituated b/c I go on with my life and while this is a part of it - it's not ruining my life.

I tend to agree with them that given enough time - the vast majority of people will get to the point I'm at. About half my friends have tinnitus. We all played in loud rock bands as teenagers and went to hundreds of concerts and never wore earplugs. All of them are habituated, and I probably had the hardest time of them all.

Don't get discouraged by how long it takes, and perhaps be encouraged by the fact that as bad as mine was (read some of my old posts - I had very bad issues) even I got there.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Not really.

Nah. really. Even the ones with experiemental treatments have a "your mileage may vary" clause.

That one Israeli huckster may be the outlier here. I've seen a dozen doctors and therapists and audiologists for this. Not a single one said there is a cure.

None.

 

[bobvann]

I'm totally habituated but I also had to redefine what habituation is. By my original definition, nobody ever habituates.

For example - I thought habituation meant I basically forgot I had tinnitus. That's anything but true. Reality is more - I think about it multiple times a day. When I first wake up. When I lay down at night. When I enter a bathroom.

One that really irks me - When we get in the totally quiet car and my wife fiddles with her phone for 3 mins to get GPS rather than just starting the damn car and providing that sweet background noise (lol) and then gets mad at me when I lose my patience and ask her to just push the button.

Reasonably my tinnitus isn't intrusive anymore. It really only is audible in dead silence. While I'd rather not hear it - when I do its just a minor inconvenience. I consider myself habituated b/c I go on with my life and while this is a part of it - it's not ruining my life.

I tend to agree with them that given enough time - the vast majority of people will get to the point I'm at. About half my friends have tinnitus. We all played in loud rock bands as teenagers and went to hundreds of concerts and never wore earplugs. All of them are habituated, and I probably had the hardest time of them all.

Don't get discouraged by how long it takes, and perhaps be encouraged by the fact that as bad as mine was (read some of my old posts - I had very bad issues) even I got there.

Thanks man. Just over 2.5 years and still quite intrusive. The only grace I have is it fluctuates and at times can back off for a bit. It's a mixed bag, you have folks like you, then there are those it can be screaming and it does nothing to them at all. The research expo is local this year. I think I'm going to check out some of the gadgets. Distractions can be a good strategy. When I was strumming my guitar last night it faded a bit.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Thanks man. Just over 2.5 years and still quite intrusive. The only grace I have is it fluctuates and at times can back off for a bit. It's a mixed bag, you have folks like you, then there are those it can be screaming and it does nothing to them at all. The research expo is local this year. I think I'm going to check out some of the gadgets. Distractions can be a good strategy. When I was strumming my guitar last night it faded a bit.

it's great that you're still playing.

As to timing - I had my first real improvement around 14 months. I'd say I was really feeling OK at around the 2 year mark, but even comparing then to now is wildly different. I have setbacks here n there where I get obsessive or it spikes for a few weeks though.

Keep hope, man.

 

[Lane]

I'd say I was really feeling OK at around the 2 year mark, but even comparing then to now is wildly different.

@Tom Cnyc -- I'm approaching my 2-year mark on Feb. 3 (a day that will live in infamy for me). I'm much better than I was at onset, but I'm encouraged by the experience of your tinnitus apparently improving much more after the 2-year mark. Thanks for that encouragement!

 

[cullenbohannon]

@Tom Cnyc @Ed209

I was active on this forum some time ago, and from what I have read (I haven't read every post in this thread - I think when I started there may have been 2,000 members here)

I agree with much of what you two have wrote. I think they're are many reasons which explain the sort of denial that can occur on here. These can be explained in evolution, psychology, and philosophy. Unfortunately the cognitive dissonance that occurs in these situations seem to me an unscalable obstacle. I have never been able to change the mind of anyone with who I've had similar conversations. I totally acknowledge that not all cases are the same, and there are people who absolutely have it worse than others. But generally speaking those who don't habituate are a minority of people. (I am not saying we need not worry about them). But statistically speaking and I don't remember the number off hand but if I remember correctly over 90% habituate (someone feel free to correct me if that is wrong). So I think if you come on to a site like this initially you SHOULD take the perspective that you WILL habituate.

I think maybe an effective way to deal with this type of cognitive dissonance might be to explain in though an evolutionary basis why we cling so desperately to certain ideas which are purely subjective and can only be arrived at through perception were have literally evolved not to see reality as it is , but to a degree that is sufficient for us to survive as a species. --Then you get added complexity of human psychology that grows from consciousness, as an added layer of complexity, and this too arise from our senses.

Anyway this is my first post in some time, apologies for the length for anyone who actually reads it.

Hoping for better days ahead for all!

 

[sirhand]

When tinnitus strikes it's easy to let it consume you. Your thought pattern gets distorted. It's a downward spiral. Some people need and outside perspective and help to climb back out. There's plenty of stories like that in the success stories thread. Regaining some control over your life and addressing distorted thinking can make a big difference. The people for whom it has worked would probably still prefer a cure, but I think once you've been down because of tinnitus, to bounce back from it can seem damn near a miracle and it makes all the difference.
To say you don't understand why people would need help from a professional to address their emotional state and thought patterns really just ignores the need for any sort of psychological help for any sort of mental illness.

That makes sense. I guess I was just bragging about how much control I have over my emotions.

 

[bobvann]

it's great that you're still playing.

As to timing - I had my first real improvement around 14 months. I'd say I was really feeling OK at around the 2 year mark, but even comparing then to now is wildly different. I have setbacks here n there where I get obsessive or it spikes for a few weeks though.

Keep hope, man.

I am actually a drummer for over 40 years. As mentioned a few times I was part of another community until recently.

One of the recommendation that was made by people who had habituated was to do things that take your mind away. One of my other hobbies is rendering graphics and Photoshop. Learning a second instrument is good because it's something new to the brain. I just strum some open chords. If Stewart Copeland can play basic guitar why not. There is so much online and apps no need to take lessons. Drumming is still on the back burner cause even with protection it creates fierce reactions for the time being. Again I was told that when truly habituated this also comes to pass.

 

[bobvann]

That makes sense. I guess I was just bragging about how much control I have over my emotions.

And as I stated before what does "distorted thinking" mean or have to do with it since this is a physical injury of sorts.

I have heard this on several occasions over the years but never made much sense and I did do MCBT group session with a therapist.

 

[threefirefour]

Is this the MPP for boffers?

 

[Autumnly]

But statistically speaking and I don't remember the number off hand but if I remember correctly over 90% habituate (someone feel free to correct me if that is wrong)

I'd like to see that statistic as well. Also, how do we define habituation? You could call yourself habituated and still struggle. Anyway, if anyone has some good statistics on those percentages, I'd very much appreciate it!

If we look at the U.S., over 50 million have some form of tinnitus, 20 million struggle with burdensome chronic tinnitus and 2 million have extreme and debilitating cases (source). That doesn't sound like 90% are blissfully habituated (not implying @cullenbohannon said this, I just feel like this idea that 90% are totally fine is often being propagated in articles, etc.).

Also, as far as I'm aware, the fact that "only 1-2% of people with tinnitus have severe cases" is not based on chronic tinnitus patients, which would be a much more interesting number. One source I saw was based on asking people if they had had tinnitus that lasted for more than five minutes at a time during the last year and if so, how much it bothered them. Please, someone, correct me if I'm totally wrong here.

According to this study (not based on chronic tinnitus patients alone but 36.0% had near constant symptoms), it also doesn't seem like 90% are totally fine:

Methods: The 2007 National Health Interview Survey (raw N=75,764) was analyzed, identifying adults reporting tinnitus in the preceding 12 months.

Regarding subjective severity:

• 7.2% believed it to be a big or a very big problem
• 20.2% thought it was a moderate problem
• 41.6% noted it to be a small problem
• with 31% not bothered by it at all