Why You Shouldn't Be Afraid of Suicide Stories

[glynis]

I'm sorry but choosing happiness is really great advice. You certainly do not have to take it. Tinnitus sucks but so do a lot of other things. I have a quadriplegic neighbor who I see waking his dog everyday. I've talked to him several times and he's just a ray of sunshine. I'm sure he suffers but he still gets out with his dog. Pain is relative. We all have pain and suffering in our lives but you must try and find the good in life and do our best not to suffer from our pain.

Tinnitus can be so severe it is mental torture 24/7 blasting and fully controls every minute of your day.

I have high pitch tinnitus like your head in a gas oven and at the same time a Hoover going off in my ears...

I'm a strong person believe me and that's not mentioning other issue's but I always put other's first and fight hard to stay afloat.

You can not turn it all off for positivity but we have no choice ...believe me .

love glynis x

My tinnitus is due to Meniere's Disease that completely damaged both of my inner ears .

 

[Twinkle18]

I am not at all saying that tinnitus cannot be severe and dibilitating. I understand that. I understand some people are house bound. This isn't and argument of the severity of tinnitus. The argument is about choices of happiness or not. My grandfather who died of cancer was house bound for the last 2 years of his life. Smiled until his last breath. He was in a lot of pain. He couldn't breathe he couldn't walk he couldn't eat. Sure he suffered, I'm sure he preferred not to suffer but he still smiled.

 

[Wolfears]

I'm sorry but your analogy doesn't really make much sense. You have choices in life. You can choose to be miserable or not. You can choose to be either positive or negative. We may not be able to choose our pain by we most certainly can choose how we deal with our pain. I never said it was easy.

I'm assuming that you have tinnitus, since you are on this board.
Now this may come as a surprise, but everyone here has a different genetic make-up and different levels of tolerance...some people run faster than others, some tolerate heat or cold better than others..etc
To make matters more complicated, everyone's Tinnitus is also different as well and it is being processed differently.

Now....I'm not sure what your Tinnitus is at right now, but imagine if someone cranked it up 5x...still ok?
Lets crank it up 10x then...and throw in couple of really unpleasant sounds, which you absolutely cannot stand.


If you don't think that is possible, think again...there is NO LIMIT to how loud or intrusiveTinnitus can get.
At that point you (and everyone else in that situation with the exception of Fishbone maybe) would be running towards the nearest cliff (not walking).


Why?
Because every one of us has their upper limit, past which we simply cannot survive...
Lot of the severe sufferers on this board are pretty much hovering around that point every single say and they would LOVE to be happy if it really was a choice for them..but at that level it just isn't possible or realistic.

This kind of talk is simply insulting to them, or at least annoying in the better case scenario.

Yes positive mindset is a good thing, but what you and people like yourself FAIL to realize is the fact, that it can only get you so far...

When you are faced with severe or catastrophic Tinnitus, that goes out the window.
At that point your choices are rather limited and none of them involves happiness.

 

[Autumnly]

For me the argument was about the severity of tinnitus because none of your posts made it clear that you believed tinnitus could be debilitating. Good to know we agree on that.

 

[Twinkle18]

But severe sufferers are repeatedly being told that it can't be that bad, that it can't be debilitating, that we wouldn't suffer as much if we just changed our attitude and that's simply not true.

I understand why that would be upsetting. That is not what I was trying to convey. Changing your mindset just helps deal with your suffering. To help you cope. It doesn't mean you won't suffer, but it could help you suffer less. If that makes sense? (Not meant to be condisending) I know it's nearly impossible to be happy 24/7.

 

[Jazzer]

..........spare me.......

 

[Starthrower]

I used to be one of those privileged people. One of those who live in a bubble unaware of the pain and suffering of people. One of those who never heard of the word tinnitus. One of those who at the very word suicide would turn away like something was wrong with the person saying the word. One of those people who hearing of someone losing a loved one to suicide would not want to listen and turn away.

I understand that "world" of ignorance.

My friend Dave. In 2002 took a gun and shot himself in the head while we were talking on the phone. The story is a long one. We had been talking for over seven hours. I did everything by the book to save him including calling the police who surrounded his hotel room and evacuated the dingy hotel when I told them he had a gun.

We were on the phone the entire time...his desperation reached a limit. His last words to me were I cannot think because of the T.

My life of privilege ended that night and I entered into this strange underground world I never never knew existed. Survivors of Suicide. It was dark and lonely and filled with people from all types of life. Rich. Poor. Happy family. And all of us were now faced with living.

Many of them had questions because all they got was the phone call the next day. They could hold on to the thought that maybe just maybe if they could have talked it would have changed the outcome.

I knew the answers but thought it would be better if they had something to believe in. If they thought they could have changed the outcome. But they were also overcome with grief and guilt and blame.

Understanding the depth of suicide loss is simply not possible unless it has touched your life. People will judge you. People will shame you and shun you into silence. And once you are so broken by this you have no power to stand up.

I do now. But it has been years and years of self examination and healing. My life changed that night and it didn't help that I was fairly new to tinnitus.

People who make statements without having experienced this first hand are ignorant. I used to be one of them.

And I only speak of this rarely when I am moved. When I don't stare at the blank space for reply with no words.

 

[Jazzer]

Dear Star
- that was so moving and so brave of you.

When well-meaning 'hobbycraft' Tinnitus dabblers make such statements as 'just choose happiness' I actually feel revulsion.
I suffer this thing, very loud, permenant and bad.
I know there must be people even worse off than me.
Whatever are people like this doing on a site that caters for serious sufferers, if they cannot learn the realities of severe Tinnitus?

 

[Jazzer]

 

[Jazzer]

but he still smiled.

....perhaps he had wind....

 

[glynis]

@Starthrower ,
I'm so sorry to hear about your friend whom shot himself while on the phone to you. You truly went through hell and understand about taking your own life and the impact from it.
Sending you lot's of love .
love glynis xxx

 

[Twinkle18]

Look I really meant no offense. This is by no means a "walk in the park" my tinnitus is loud as well. I can hear it everywhere and I do not get a break for the sounds and sensations. However, for me, the times I am smiling and laughing with my husband or my family I get a break. The sounds almost don't exist, if that makes sense. What works for me is that i treat the sounds as meaningless noises that don't define who I am. It hasn't been an easy road but I don't know what else to do except try and find happiness everyday.

 

[Jazzer]

@Autumnly
- thank you very much for your kind support,
Dave x
Jazzer

 

[JohnAdams]

Tinnitus can be so severe it is mental torture 24/7 blasting and fully controls every minute of your day.

I have high pitch tinnitus like your head in a gas oven and at the same time a Hoover going off in my ears...

I'm a strong person believe me and that's not mentioning other issue's but I always put other's first and fight hard to stay afloat.

You can not turn it all off for positivity but we have no choice ...believe me .

love glynis x

My tinnitus is due to Meniere's Disease that completely damaged both of my inner ears .

I dont have it nearly as bad as you. I admire and respect you for your kind words and positivity.

 

[BreachOfEuphoria]

I've had this quote by Gabrielle Roth in my signature on another board for many years before i had my neck injury or vascular injury.

"In many shamanic societies, if you came to a medicine person complaining of being disheartened, dispirited, or depressed, they would ask one of four questions: When did you stop dancing? When did you stop singing? When did you stop being enchanted by stories? When did you stop finding comfort in the sweet territory of silence?"
-Gabrielle Roth

When did you stop finding comfort in the sweet territory of silence?"

I used to love having a joint, after being plagued by OCD and clinical depression for most of the day in 2013, 2014, 2015 and so on. I still thought life was worth living.

I was happy, smoking some good cold-pressed Moroccan hashish with some home grown danish pot in the same joint.
I became even more happy when i heard the sweet voice of Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix and Lou reed in my speakers.

I loved life. I was humble and i was very happy with a roof over my head, food in my fridge, clean water in the tap.
I liked the strangers i walked past in the street, i liked humanity.

Having something happen to me that resembles a stroke and then experiencing how little a fuck people give.

As much love and passion i have in my heart, i have an equal amount of anger and destruction.

 

[coffee_girl]

My only problem with suicide is when people glorify it.

 

[BreachOfEuphoria]

My only problem with suicide is when people glorify it.

Why do you think people will glorify it ?
Maybe they do it because it's a subconscious cry for help.

 

[coffee_girl]

Why do you think people will glorify it ?
Maybe they do it because it's a subconscious cry for help.

You clearly misunderstood my point but that's OK

 

[BreachOfEuphoria]

You clearly misunderstood my point but that's OK

Tell me, what was your point?

 

[BreachOfEuphoria]

Tinnitus can be so severe it is mental torture 24/7 blasting and fully controls every minute of your day.

You can not turn it all off for positivity but we have no choice ...believe me .

True, we have no choice.

 

[Starthrower]

My only problem with suicide is when people glorify it.

@coffee_girl
These types of remarks are like taking a knife and stabbing the heart of a person who is dealing with this type of loss.
There is no glorification of suicide. You see, when we talk about the good of the one we lost to suicide it is always the usual response from the "other" world.

When we try to do something positive to stop it from happening the story is part of the process.

I used to live in the same world of ignorance as you do now. I wish I still did. I have to remember it is not your fault.

And you never answered the question:

Tell me, what was your point?

 

[Jazzer]

It hasn't been an easy road but I don't know what else to do except try and find happiness everyday.

Hi Twinkle.
You deserve a decent reasoned answer, and I do understand where you are coming from.
We all have an inner self, deep inner feelings, and we are oftentimes hurt and under stress.
We also have a less sincere face, a facade with with which to face the world, sometimes referred to by psychologists, rather unkindly I think, as a false self.
We all have one, and we all need one at times.

We all put on a happy face at times, because we have to; the world at large is not going to be interested in a face full of misery.
My lovely grown up children don't want to see a miserable dad, when they call in to see me.
My adorable grandchildren, full of highjinks want me to go to the park with them, and play 'hide and seek.'
I may have a head full of noise, and be feeling pretty ropey, but I try not to dwell on it, or show it.

This is a personal challenge to me, which I knowingly embark on, in the full knowledge that it is the best way to interact with my world, and my people, and to maintain comfortable relationships, without causing undue anxiety in my loved ones.

But this is something that develops over time.

We really must not tell those sufferers perhaps new to this wretched scenario, and in fear and pain already to, glibly, 'choose happiness and play in the sunshine.'
The passage of time usually helps.

For whatever reason - some can, and some can't.
The difference may depend largely on severity; and on other psychological damage, accrued over the years, from childhood up.

I didn't like the feeling that I may have given you a short shrift answer, when I know better.
Dave x

 

[coffee_girl]

@coffee_girl
These types of remarks are like taking a knife and stabbing the heart of a person who is dealing with this type of loss.
There is no glorification of suicide. You see, when we talk about the good of the one we lost to suicide it is always the usual response from the "other" world.

When we try to do something positive to stop it from happening the story is part of the process.

I used to live in the same world of ignorance as you do now. I wish I still did. I have to remember it is not your fault.

And you never answered the question:

I don't bother responding to it because people get emotionally defensive about it, there is no rationality where emotions are concerned so any chance of having a discussion is pointless. People are allowed to have their opinion so they can say what they want about it. Doesn't bother me.

I never said discussions of suicide are bad, I never said we shouldn't attempt to dissect the problems. I just said that we shouldn't glorify it as the only alternative to T.

Edit : I do feel remembrance threads are important as they tend to remind us of what we are fighting against. Or threads that people post about how depressed and suicidal they are. These are not what I considered glorification. There's A difference between discussing and promoting suicide as a solution for those suffering with T. Let the individual make their own choice as to what works for them.

 

[Jazzer]

Doesn't bother me.

'.........just about says it all......'

 

[coffee_girl]

'.........just about says it all......'

Peoples opinions don't bother me, you must not have read the whole post.

 

[Jazzer]

These types of remarks are like taking a knife and stabbing the heart of a person who is dealing with this type of loss.

{{{{{{ Great Big Hugs Star }}}}}}

Dave xx

 

[threefirefour]

the best reason to not be afraid of any given thing is to ask yourself "is this fear in any way productive / preventing me from taking some detrimental course of action". In general, the things which we ruminate about and suffer from fearfully, are not things which it is to our advantage to be fearful of. Compared to, say, the fear of suddenly accelerating to 120mph on the highway with our eyes closed, which is probably a useful fear.

So, from this we can conclude that pretty much any constant anxiety is counterproductive - therefore we have a good reason to not be afraid of that thing, and we should be aware rationally that this thinking is amplifying our own distress.

Actually stopping oneself from feeling that fear, is, of course, a much harder and less straightforward matter. Generally people who have success with this, do it through a long, hard and painful personal process. They are then prone to (if they still post on boards like this at all anymore) making threads about how they are "doing better", and their "daily routine" of x,y,z (fill in the blanks from this helpful superset: { yoga, meditation, exercise, diet, CBT, psychotherapy, spiritual practices, etc }). These threads are generally then dismissed as "willful blindness", "mumbo-jumbo" or, less nicely, "bullshit" by people who are still in a distress state.

The degree to which people in the "high distress" camp are able over time to eventually move to the "doing better" camp, and the degree to which that transition relates to voluntary, conscious behavior vs involuntary factors such as genetics, disease severity, etc -- is not known or well understood at this time. I am explicitly calling this out, lest anyone accuse me of victim blaming. I am not suggesting that these things are necessarily under much conscious control; some people have a lot more to come to grips with than other luckier souls do. That said, one thing I have anecdotally witnessed is that people who are convinced that optimism is the best course of action sometimes seem to improve, whereas people who seem convinced that pessimism is the only reasonable mindstate seldom or never seem to improve, at least until there is a shift in that belief. Certainly, beliefs are a lot more plastic than physical realities like tinnitus. Once suffering is our default behavior, it is much easier and less challenging to simply continue to suffer, than to be willing to examine and let go of our most deeply held beliefs about ourselves and our lives.

The really interesting thing to me is how little any of this has to do with tinnitus per se: you can observe this basic pattern in any number of threads here, but also on any number of other health boards dedicated to things like chronic pain, anxiety disorders, fibromyalgia, etc.

 

[Starthrower]

I do feel remembrance threads are important as they tend to remind us of what we are fighting against. Or threads that people post about how depressed and suicidal they are. These are not what I considered glorification. There's A difference between discussing and promoting suicide as a solution for those suffering with T.

@coffee_girl okay. I understand. Thank you for explaining your point.

there is no rationality where emotions are concerned so any chance of having a discussion is pointless.

I disagree with that statement. You and I just had this type of discussion and it was not pointless.

Working with survivors of suicide where tinnitus was a factor is a very, very tricky path. So much so I disappeared for a few years. Each wife or daughter or friend was vilified when they said their loved one had suffered from tinnitus. The so called experts were (are) quick to judge and insist the person suffered other issues. So there is this hidden group of us who say nothing because we are dismissed when we speak out.

I was glad to read that you have empathy for the remembrance threads.