Will You Get Vaccinated for Coronavirus (COVID-19)? Can It Make Tinnitus or Hyperacusis Worse?

[UKBloke]

The government messed up big time. They should have been mass testing from day one, or at least from when my wife and I had it in early March. At the time, it was treated as a big joke. When my wife went to her GP with breathing and sinus problems the Dr said, "you haven't been to China have you," whilst laughing. My wife said, "no, but the school had a skiing trip to Italy." To my wife's astonishment, the Dr said, "that doesn't matter, we're only testing people who have been to China." There was no concern about community spread, whatsoever. She was given antibiotics and that was it. Her symptoms became worse and she struggled to breathe every night. At one point, I was close to calling an ambulance. A week later, I came down with the same illness and was coughing constantly.

Not long after that, my mom came down with it and because she was hospitalised, she was tested (she was the only one out of all of us because, at that point-in-time, they couldn't care less). My mom was positive, which meant that the mystery illness my wife and I both had was almost certainly COVID-19. Many at the school she worked at were ill from the skiing trip, so it was quite clear how it had spread. Not long after this, cases exploded, and only then did the government start taking it seriously. The following month the ONS showed that all deaths in the country had doubled. Doubled! This was statistically huge. They went from an average of 20,000 to over 40,000. The lack of testing led to many unnecessary deaths.

Since then, we've been tested twice. They always use the PCR test. The lateral flow test has only been used for health workers in this country, but its inaccuracy makes it a waste of time, in my opinion. You cannot blame the PCR test if people are not following the rules, that's ridiculous logic. Again, what's the alternative? Stop testing altogether? How will that help matters?

Before you have the test you have to complete a questionnaire which clearly states that you should not have it unless you have symptoms. Unfortunately, nothing can be done about people abusing it. That's on the general public and nobody else.


Snap. I'm self-employed and this year I lost a significant amount of my income. Barely enough to live on.

That's true. Money is one of the key driving forces of the world. However, how has the PCR test been misused to drive the pandemic? In this country, it has been underused. They will lose.

But that's what we're doing now: testing those with symptoms. I don't think you've thought this through properly. How do you stop asymptomatic people from getting tested when people can just lie? Your argument makes no sense. You can only test those who turn up at the testing stations and presume they're being honest.

If you decide to stop testing altogether then the situation would get worse and could easily snowball to catastrophic levels. Testing is the first line of defence, and the PCR test is the best we currently have. Those are the facts.

Ok Ed. Have a good evening.

 

[UKBloke]

I don't think you've thought this through properly.

I was that angry having read the above comment last night that I had to step away from the computer.

For some perspective:

I'm self-employed too. This year my business has not suffered, neither has my missus's. She and I have both been in the fortunate, although some would say, unfortunate, position of watching this debacle unravel from a point of relative comfort. One might think we've had it easy, and to a degree we have. But that hasn't gotten in the way of me shaking my head in disbelief every day in 2020 about what the hell just happened to my country. Personally, I've kept away from posting about this topic on the Internet for most of last year, although I do note that very early on you were conducting podcasts and discussing your own experience with COVID-19.

I do watch various people on Twitter, but I would say that Tinnitus Talk is the main place where I interact with people online. One of the reasons I stayed away from positing is actually down to what we've ended up doing here - polemicising. The main reason, however, is that it's taken me practically nine months to seek out those who are qualified to talk through the glaring contradictions in this narrative and try and digest what they have to say. If the mainstream media had done a bit of a better job I might feel differently.

Your argument is not with me. It's with the various people, whose numbers are growing but include the likes of Mike Yeadon, Clare Craig, Kevin McKernan and Malcolm Kendrick, a GP who has been signing death certificates in 2020, and written a brilliant blog post that elucidates the various problems as he sees it.

Early on Mike Yeadon started to discuss the problems he was seeing, and in particular the approach that Sir Patrick Vallance, a man he actually went through university with, was taking regarding the pandemic. Yeadon has been very clear on his opinion: the pandemic was over at the end of spring. Dr. Clare Craig is a Diagnostic Pathologist. She has been combing through the figures, which is her job, and shares the same view as Yeadon.

Both Yeadon and Craig are magnaminous enough to acknowledge that people disagree with their views. But at the same time they have requested a public platform (Yeadon in particular) to argue their points and for the most part been denied it, although radio stations like TalkSport have eventually been a little more accommodating.

Yeadon was the first person of any standing that I heard refer to the pandemic as a "case-demic". In his own words: "PCR mass testing in the UK is a disgrace. No self-respecting scientist should associate themselves with a regime that has NEVER released a value for operational false positive rate. They'll be prosecuted eventually."

Strong words but at the end of the day, this guy is the ex CEO of respiratory illness at Pfizer. As an expert witness in this situation, they don't come much better qualified.

We know that testing of asymptomatic people has been a policy in nursing homes for staff as well as residents. I know for a fact that this has been a policy in the nursery sector. We know the government's own guidelines on symptoms are flimsy: "a high temperature" or "3 or more coughing episodes in 24 hours". My own niece's senior school shut down 4/5ths of the school at various points during 2020 when some kid "tested positive". In other words, they sent the entire year home and into self-isolation for 14 days. We can speculate about how many of those worried parents then sent their own kids for testing or even tested themselves. Again, we know for a fact that in the UK 13.6million people have taken the PCR test.

Kendrick has had this to say:

"If I were to recommend actions. I would recommend that we stop testing – unless someone is admitted to hospital and is seriously ill. Mass testing is simply causing mass panic and achieves absolutely nothing. At great cost. We should also just get on with our lives as before. We should just vaccinate those at greatest risk of dying, the elderly and vulnerable, and put this rather embarrassing episode of mad banner waving behind us."

I believe that people like McKernan are calling for PCR to be standardised at 25 cycles. Even Dr Craig has stated that PCR had it's place early on in the pandemic. What I say here though is, don't shoot the messenger. I get why people are fractious when they read unsubstantiated stuff. And to a degree, I understand why the comparison to online Flat Earth debate is made. But that is not what is happening here. To bring it back to the decision about whether or not to take a vaccine, I would say the choice is individual. But if one would like some balance to the debate, there are experts out there who have important stuff to say. It's just unfortunate that we have to go to Twitter to find them.

 

[Ed209]

I was that angry having read the above comment last night that I had to step away from the computer.

For some perspective:

I'm self-employed too. This year my business has not suffered, neither has my missus's. She and I have both been in the fortunate, although some would say, unfortunate, position of watching this debacle unravel from a point of relative comfort. One might think we've had it easy, and to a degree we have. But that hasn't gotten in the way of me shaking my head in disbelief every day in 2020 about what the hell just happened to my country. Personally, I've kept away from posting about this topic on the Internet for most of last year, although I do note that very early on you were conducting podcasts and discussing your own experience with COVID-19.

I had no intention, whatsoever, to make you angry. This situation is shit enough without the need for friction on here as well, so I apologise if you've felt this was personal in some way.

Last year for me and my family was beyond hell for all kinds of reasons ranging from my health to our finances, my mom and dads health, and various health scares with our kids. I won't go into details, but I can tell you it has been torturous.

I have never grandstanded about any of this on social media like so many on my friends list do; I've remained silent throughout. I've only discussed my personal feelings on here and with my family. I was on the podcast purely because I was invited, and in no way did I push for myself to be on there. Writing about it on here seemed logical as it's a support forum.

I do watch various people on Twitter, but I would say that Tinnitus Talk is the main place where I interact with people online. One of the reasons I stayed away from positing is actually down to what we've ended up doing here - polemicising. The main reason, however, is that it's taken me practically nine months to seek out those who are qualified to talk through the glaring contradictions in this narrative and try and digest what they have to say. If the mainstream media had done a bit of a better job I might feel differently.

Again, it's not my intention to argue just for the sake of it, but when I see so many falsehoods being posted on here as fact, I feel compelled to respond. The MSM are irrelevant to me. I base my opinions on what I'm witnessing in real-life, and by the verifiable information that is being reported in respected journals and by my friends who work in the field. My mom was very nearly killed and now has longterm damage to her heart and kidneys, and when I log in here, we have people laughing and comparing it to the flu, and even worse, saying it's a hoax! The facts are overwhelming at this point, so anyone defending that position is objectively wrong.

I've already stated that I don't necessarily agree with the ongoing lockdowns because of the catastrophic effect they are having on everyone's health and livelihoods. But at the same time, I can see how it's a morally difficult decision to make, to allow thousands of people to die when they can potentially be saved. However, by locking down, many will lose their homes and careers they've worked their entire lives to build, and there will be a lot of suicides and other serious ramifications. So, what's the solution? This is a deeply troubling dilemma to be in if you hold any power.

Yeadon was the first person of any standing that I heard refer to the pandemic as a "case-demic". In his own words: "PCR mass testing in the UK is a disgrace. No self-respecting scientist should associate themselves with a regime that has NEVER released a value for operational false positive rate. They'll be prosecuted eventually."

The problem is that the testing wasn't started early enough, and it wasn't done on a large enough scale to limit the spread. The PCR test isn't killing people, the coronavirus is. If you were to stop testing people, the virus wouldn't suddenly stop killing people. This is why this argument makes little sense to me. Scientists know what the approximate false-positive rate is, but regardless of that, if we really were to stop testing, it would solve nothing. Things would actually get worse.

Full fact wrote something on this that I thought was worth sharing; you should read it as it talks about Mike Yeadon's opinions:

https://fullfact.org/health/can-we-believe-lockdown-sceptics/

 

[Ed209]

I was going to edit my previous post to add this small excerpt in, but it wouldn't work, so I'll add it here:

Mr Cummins and Dr Yeadon both claim that this is a result of many "false positive" Covid tests (where people who test positive don't actually have the virus) but, as we have said before, false positives are not common enough to explain this.

We can also now see that at the peak of the second wave in the week to 20 November, the total excess deaths in the UK were 21% (2,155) higher than the five year average. Something, in other words, was undoubtedly causing far more deaths than usual, which cannot be explained by faulty tests. This was Covid.

 

[Pulsing Ear]

I was going to edit my previous post to add this small excerpt in, but it wouldn't work, so I'll add it here:

Mr Cummins and Dr Yeadon both claim that this is a result of many "false positive" Covid tests (where people who test positive don't actually have the virus) but, as we have said before, false positives are not common enough to explain this.

We can also now see that at the peak of the second wave in the week to 20 November, the total excess deaths in the UK were 21% (2,155) higher than the five year average. Something, in other words, was undoubtedly causing far more deaths than usual, which cannot be explained by faulty tests. This was Covid.

I analyzed the CDCs figures for total US deaths in 2018,2019, and 2020. There indeed was an increase of about 300,000 or so this year. So unless there was a different reason for a big increase in total deaths, COVID-19 did indeed kill many. I was skeptical until I found that in the data. Any of us can see it on the CDC website. Just takes awhile to find the data. Total deaths, from all causes.

Comparing 2018 to 2019 you can see a small increase, due to an increase in population size. That's normal. It was very small compared to the 300,000 plus.

I didn't even look at "deaths from COVID-19 ", because those could be wrong. No need to if you look at total deaths.

 

[UKBloke]

I was going to edit my previous post to add this small excerpt in, but it wouldn't work, so I'll add it here:

Mr Cummins and Dr Yeadon both claim that this is a result of many "false positive" Covid tests (where people who test positive don't actually have the virus) but, as we have said before, false positives are not common enough to explain this.

We can also now see that at the peak of the second wave in the week to 20 November, the total excess deaths in the UK were 21% (2,155) higher than the five year average. Something, in other words, was undoubtedly causing far more deaths than usual, which cannot be explained by faulty tests. This was Covid.

This afternoon, Yeadon fact-checked the fact checkers.

That's the Clown World we're living in right now.

I'll leave the following images here for posterity:

@Ed209 I just want to add - me getting angry sometimes happens... No harm done

 

[Ed209]

This afternoon, Yeadon fact-checked the fact checkers.

That's the Clown World we're living in right now.

I'll leave the following images here for posterity:

View attachment 42448

View attachment 42449

View attachment 42450

@Ed209 I just want to add - when I get angry I step away for a bit. No harm done

Don't get angry, UKBloke People are entitled to their opinions, there's nothing wrong with that. My main issue was with PeteJ telling outright porkies.

 

[Nobody19]

I don't think people who are concerned with side effects are concerned with short term side effects as much as potential long term unknown side effects, months to years down the road.

But did you read what I wrote?

Adverse events from vaccines appear 2 months after injection at the latest. By the time we'll be able to get vaccinated, we'll know if these side effects are rampant (spoiler: data made available so far is not showing this).

It's always possible that a new vaccine causes a new problem, but the odds of that are pretty insignificant. Much, much lower than getting long Covid in any case.

 

[worriedd]

I'm a nurse and I'm getting my COVID-19 vaccine next week. IMO it's the risk of getting COVID-19 outweighs the risk of having the vaccine. Talked to about 50 staff members who have had it and only one had bad side effects.

Any other nurses getting it?

 

[Pulsing Ear]

I'm a nurse and I'm getting my COVID-19 vaccine next week. IMO it's the risk of getting COVID-19 outweighs the risk of having the vaccine. Talked to about 50 staff members who have had it and only one had bad side effects.

Any other nurses getting it?

What were the bad side effects? So that's 1 out of 50, or 2%.

 

[worriedd]

What were the bad side effects? So that's 1 out of 50, or 2%.

He had a bad fever, had to have a few days off work, but he's fine now. Of course most of these people don't have tinnitus, but I think it's still important to point out.

 

[alexberger]

@worriedd I'm also getting it next week. Super nervous about the effects on T, but it shouldn't actually affect it. The mRNA wont leave the myocytes and neither will the generated protein (unlike the other vaccines that increase T). Anyway, will you post here and let me know how it goes? I'll also post in the thread for it! I keep reasoning with myself that Covid itself is worse for ears, but the fear is intense.

 

[Lane]

For research, I go straight to scientific journals and I talk to my friends who are in the field.

@Ed209 -- If I had a friend or family member who was potentially exposed to the coronavirus, and asked me where to go to find the best available information that would be especially helpful? I would send them to 2-time winning Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling's organization called Orthomolecular Medicine. I think its website adds substantially to what mainstream medicine has to offer.

Not at all trying to say your approach doesn't have significant merit. But my own personal view is that it may be unnecessarily restrictive, and perhaps not all that practical when dealing with a crisis situation that requires immediate intervention. -- Below is a link to many articles they've published on COVID-19, which contain many practical ways to address both prevention and treatment.

Orthomolecular Medicine News Service

All the Best!

 

[Juan]

To me it seems shocking that several vaccines were created in just 6 months to treat a new virus... it seems a bit rushed, so I am skeptical about the efficacy of the vaccines.

It is very strange that the media has not reported on the period of immunity the vaccine provides.

On top of that recently a nurse in Portugal died suddenly just the day after being administered the vaccine, and she was young. There have been serious side effects reported too, probably this is just a very small minority of cases, but still something to consider.

 

[Juan]

@Ed209, if COVID-19 isn't very deadly why is it considered a pandemic? How is a 99% survival rate being called a pandemic?

That's a very good question. That's why young people are mostly skeptical about the vaccine. When one sees workmates catching COVID-19 and being ok afterwards, it is normal to wonder why taking the risk of getting vaccinated when there is a lot of information lacking about the vaccine and its side effects.

 

[Ed209]

That's a very good question.

I've answered this a few times. A pandemic is defined as an epidemic occurring worldwide. The severity of the disease is irrelevant to the term. Even so, the estimated mortality rate is still something that has to be considered and taken seriously, as it's significantly worse than the flu's, and it's also a novel virus. This means that nobody knows what it will do next as each mutation occurs. It could gradually become less deadly over time, but it could also become more deadly. It is smart to take it seriously.

If I presented people on this forum with a bowl of 100 jelly beans, and I told you all that 2 of them contained a lethal poison, how many of you would grab and eat one? What if there were 100 people in the room and 20 had already been eaten? Would you eat one then?

After all, 1/2 in a hundred are good odds, so you should be fine.

 

[Ed209]

@Ed209 -- If I had a friend or family member who was potentially exposed to the coronavirus, and asked me where to go to find the best available information that would be especially helpful? I would send them to 2-time winning Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling's organization called Orthomolecular Medicine. I think its website adds substantially to what mainstream medicine has to offer.

Not at all trying to say your approach doesn't have significant merit. But my own personal view is that it may be unnecessarily restrictive, and perhaps not all that practical when dealing with a crisis situation that requires immediate intervention. -- Below is a link to many articles they've published on COVID-19, which contain many practical ways to address both prevention and treatment.

Orthomolecular Medicine News Service

All the Best!

Linus Pauling was a scientific legend. I know that he also experimented with vitamin C and was the first person (I may be wrong here) to say that it would help with a cold.

I've done a lot of reading on this, and although it does have an effect, it's pretty negligible and doesn't stop you catching a cold. The best you can expect is for it shorten the duration you have it by a day or so.

I know you believe that vitamin C would help tackle the coronavirus, but I still don't think it would make much of a difference in whether someone would contract it or not. I respect your opinion, however. Mine is just different.

 

[Ed209]

My mom and dad had the second Pfizer vaccine injection on Saturday, and by the nighttime they both felt really ill and had a horrendous headache. This is considered normal, but it still panicked my mom.

They seem ok now, though.

As a side note, I received a text today from my GP saying they will be in touch in the coming weeks to book my vaccination. I'm not sure if this is a generic message they are sending to everyone or if I'm actually on the list.

 

[Sevv]

To me it seems shocking that several vaccines were created in just 6 months to treat a new virus... it seems a bit rushed, so I am skeptical about the efficacy of the vaccines.

It is very strange that the media has not reported on the period of immunity the vaccine provides.

On top of that recently a nurse in Portugal died suddenly just the day after being administered the vaccine, and she was young. There have been serious side effects reported too, probably this is just a very small minority of cases, but still something to consider.

Well, if so many companies redirect all their resources at finding a solution for COVID-19, I guess it can go that fast. Now it would be nice if that ever happened with tinnitus, but we can keep dreaming.

 

[TheDanishGirl]

I am so split about this vaccine. It seems that whether we choose to have it or not, there is a risk of worsening tinnitus and hyperacusis. I just don't know what to do. I know some months will pass before it will be offered to me, so I have some time to make my decision, but as of right now the only options I can see are a bad choice and another bad choice.

 

[PeteJ]

That's a very good question. That's why young people are mostly skeptical about the vaccine. When one sees workmates catching COVID-19 and being ok afterwards, it is normal to wonder why taking the risk of getting vaccinated when there is a lot of information lacking about the vaccine and its side effects.

Absolutely, most young people have a healthy immune system and can fight off a cold, flu or even this "COVID-19" thing.

Vaccines are not needed and may be harmful. There's been other treatments for COVID-19 introduced but they have been resisted, ignored and disregarded.

Look up Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin. But, nope, those options have been abandoned.

 

[Juan]

Well, if so many companies redirect all their resources at finding a solution for COVID-19, I guess it can go that fast. Now it would be nice if that ever happened with tinnitus, but we can keep dreaming.

I think the hearing system is so complicated because of its tiny structures and how delicate and intertwined they are. Even the endolymph, the liquid, is already complicated... the cause of endolymphatic hydrops.

On top of that pharma companies and hearing aid manufacturers already make so much money selling these devices and selling their "snake oil" products for tinnitus, that they lack incentives to address the real issue and get it solved.

 

[Juan]

I've answered this a few times. A pandemic is defined as an epidemic occurring worldwide. The severity of the disease is irrelevant to the term. Even so, the estimated mortality rate is still something that has to be considered and taken seriously, as it's significantly worse than the flu's, and it's also a novel virus. This means that nobody knows what it will do next as each mutation occurs. It could gradually become less deadly over time, but it could also become more deadly. It is smart to take it seriously.

If I presented people on this forum with a bowl of 100 jelly beans, and I told you all that 2 of them contained a lethal poison, how many of you would grab and eat one? What if there were 100 people in the room and 20 had already been eaten? Would you eat one then?

After all, 1/2 in a hundred are good odds, so you should be fine.

I see your point, and in general agree with you. However, regarding the vaccine, I can see how young people may have less incentives to get vaccinated than old people. Young people are seeing peers, colleagues and workmates get COVID-19 and be absolutely fine after a few weeks, so they have to balance the potential risk and benefits from the vaccine more carefully.

 

[Sevv]

I think the hearing system is so complicated because of its tiny structures and how delicate and intertwined they are. Even the endolymph, the liquid, is already complicated... the cause of endolymphatic hydrops.

On top of that pharma companies and hearing aid manufacturers already make so much money selling these devices and selling their "snake oil" products for tinnitus, that they lack incentives to address the real issue and get it solved.

And yet there are companies now to create treatments/cures. I mean yeah it's complicated but it doesn't seem to be too complicated to develop treatments. So speed it up. Hearing loss and tinnitus has societal costs of hundreds of billions per year according to the WHO (treatments, lost opportunities, associated mental health problems, etc., google "Global costs of unaddressed hearing loss and cost-effectiveness of interventions").

For COVID-19 (ok COVID-19 has probably costs of trillions) we have a solution within a year or two but for hearing loss with also staggering societal costs the world can't afford a couple billions to fix the problem? It's absurd.

 

[Juan]

For COVID-19 (ok COVID-19 has probably costs of trillions) we have a solution within a year or two but for hearing loss with also staggering societal costs the world can't afford a couple billions to fix the problem? It's absurd.

Maybe it is not only the cost but also the technical complexity of human hearing.

 

[Moss]

I have great concerns since my tinnitus and hyperacusis went through the roof as a result of surgeries and heavy antibiotics. The condition was manageable before this happened (multiple surgeries and multiple courses of IV antibiotics including Gentamicin), now I have no sound tolerance at all. I have a chronic illness with chronic pain all over already to begin with (but am not in the official vulnerable group) and have reasons to believe my immune system went out of whack. To me the reaction feels like a neuro inflammation and connected to the immune system. The last surgery was the nail in the coffin.

I'm isolated alone at home because of COVID-19 as well as the ear pain so I'm currently at no risk of catching COVID-19. I intend to keep it that way for as long as it takes. I'm therefore leaning towards not taking the risk of aggravating the ear condition, but I'm not sure. I don't know who to discuss this with since no one seems to know anything whatsoever about anything that I want to know about.

 

[GlennS]

If I'm a conspiracy theorist for having enough of a concern that I've ended up digging around online for further information then so be it.

You're a conspiracy theorist, a sweeping case of brain rot just as epidemic as COVID-19 these day.

BTW, if you have a policy of seeking out "independent" sources of information to determine the real threats before us, not just the ones "they" want us to fear, be sure to visit this site. Your life will never be the same after.

https://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

 

[Sevv]

You're a conspiracy theorist, a sweeping case of brain rot just as epidemic as COVID-19 these day.

BTW, if you have a policy of seeking out "independent" sources of information to determine the real threats before us, not just the ones "they" want us to fear, be sure to visit this site. Your life will never be the same after.

https://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

It actually took me two minutes until I got skeptical and Googled for some background about this. If I believed more quickly I might have fallen for it.

 

[UKBloke]

You're a conspiracy theorist, a sweeping case of brain rot just as epidemic as COVID-19 these day.

BTW, if you have a policy of seeking out "independent" sources of information to determine the real threats before us, not just the ones "they" want us to fear, be sure to visit this site. Your life will never be the same after.

https://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

And for the tone of that post Glenn, you can have my stock response: go fuck yourself.

 

[Ed209]

You're a conspiracy theorist, a sweeping case of brain rot just as epidemic as COVID-19 these day.

BTW, if you have a policy of seeking out "independent" sources of information to determine the real threats before us, not just the ones "they" want us to fear, be sure to visit this site. Your life will never be the same after.

https://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

Unfortunately, this really is all it takes to convince a lot of people. PeteJ, in particular, seems highly susceptible, as he appears to believe anything he reads online, as long as it fits his beliefs. We are all like this to a degree as it is hardwired into us, but some take it to another level. This is why it's important that we know the source of the information we are reading, and what the context or motive behind it is. Social media can act as an amplifier, making it easier for misinformation to spread, and lies tend to spread faster than the truth.

When I see someone fervently calling another person a sheep, and saying things like, "bah, bah," I know that whatever that person is saying is almost certainly nonsense, as that phrase seems to be the calling card of those who are the least informed in a given situation. The irony always makes me smile.