Will You Get Vaccinated for Coronavirus (COVID-19)? Can It Make Tinnitus or Hyperacusis Worse?

[DaveFromChicago]

You have to weigh this decision against catching COVID-19, which will be inevitable. Sooner or later, everyone will get it, and all those without antibodies will be exposed to many potential health problems.

The risks associated with it include damage to the lungs and vascular system, damage to the heart, damage to the kidneys, etc.

Here's a list of common longterm problems taken directly from the NHS website:

• extreme tiredness (fatigue)
• shortness of breath
• chest pain or tightness
• problems with memory and concentration ("brain fog")
• difficulty sleeping (insomnia)
• heart palpitations
• dizziness
• pins and needles
• joint pain
• depression and anxiety
• tinnitus, earaches
• feeling sick, diarrhoea, stomach aches, loss of appetite
• a high temperature, cough, headaches, sore throat, changes to sense of smell or taste
• rashes

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/long-term-effects-of-coronavirus-long-covid/

There's also the possibility that it can affect the nervous system and cause neurological problems. And last but not least, some will die from it, and this is not just old people or those with underlying health problems.

You should try to look at this objectively. The risks from COVID-19 far outweigh those posed by the vaccines based upon what's known.

By the end of the year nearly one out of ten Americans will have gotten COVID-19. I have heard that one quarter so far have reported varying degrees of the above listed depression, anxiety and "brain fog." Although I would certainly never wish tinnitus on anyone, even just 2% (let's say) of the anticipated 30 million plus cases is 600,000. The sad irony may be that this increased number of tinnitus sufferers may finally contribute to the recognition of the necessity for finding an effective treatment.

I received the second shot, and I did experience fatigue, a headache and soreness the next day (but this was also the case with the second shingles shot as well).
A 64 year old man one block north of me died of this. It is developing that everyone will know someone (or know someone who knows someone) who has died of this.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Regulators like the EMA have been incredibly irresponsible to approve vaccines without taking into account side effects. They just say that "benefits outweigh risks". Benefits for whom? For hotels? For airlines?

Certainly not for the ones that had the jab and afterwards died of unknown complications or got blood clots, or other serious side effects.

I agree with you Juan for I was apprehensive about having the vaccine. My opinions began to change, when I heard the experiences that people have gone through after getting COVID-19 which aren't pleasant. Many have long term COVID-19 and their body is not the same and therefore decided to have the vaccine.

AstraZeneca Chief Medical Officer has said fewer than 40 cases of blood clots have been reported in 17 million people that have had the vaccine in Europe. Blood clots have occurred in people that had the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines too. Apparently, these figures are very low and blood clots happen all the time in the general population. Presently there is no evidence of a link between AstraZeneca vaccine and blood clots. The EMA is still investigating and will be making an announcement tomorrow.

Michael

 

[frischky]

Makes me wonder if the polyethylene glycol (PEG) is the culprit for those who got tinnitus as a side effect or a spike for pre-existing tinnitus...

There seems to be some research out there that shows PEG to be ototoxic if applied directly to the inner ear. Whether the same effects occur with systemic application... and the amounts of PEG in the vaccine are sufficient enough to cause these reactions, is unknown.

I have my first shot of Pfizer scheduled for Saturday, but having my doubts right now after reading one article with loads of people reporting new tinnitus or exacerbated tinnitus with the vaccines (including Pfizer).

 

[Ed209]

@Ed209, what's your view if one has already had COVID-19? Is the vaccine still needed in this case or could it be postponed?

The vaccine is still needed, but if you've recently been infected, then you'll most likely have antibodies and/or T cells. These only seem to last around 6 months, though, which is why the vaccine is still necessary at some point.

 

[linearb]

Good point, you are saying some of these people might have developed tinnitus anyway on their own. Still, the article said that tinnitus appeared after the vaccination. Correlation is not causation but the timing is suspect.

Anything immunologic can impact tinnitus, so I wasn't suggesting all these people developed it for other reasons. Some almost certainly did, though: just based on pure math, a group that large would be likely to have some people report tinnitus as a first time symptom over 60 days. Also, this would only worry me if the tinnitus persists for weeks/months after vaxx -- a temporary bump from your immune system getting turned on seems normal. Any kind of infection I have tends to give me an increase.

I'm also confident I got COVID-19 one year ago. Where would that place me with regards to vaccination?

No real difference; I'd try to get one of the better vaxx (Pfizer / modeRNA) with demonstrated efficiency against the SA strain.

What we're seeing from strain divergence makes me think that vaxx'd people will be protected better than people who only had COVID-19 with no vaxx, and people who had COVID-19 and then get the vaxx are probably the safest group in terms of not developing COVID-19 again any time soon.

This is starting to look like it will be just another flu-shot like drug, for people who'd rather get an annual shot than roll the dice on being more likely to get unpleasant and potentially life changing diseases.

 

[Ed209]

I see many are concerned about getting tinnitus and/or other health problems from the vaccines, but I don't think some of you are properly factoring in the risk factor from COVID-19 itself (which is known to cause all kinds of problems, including tinnitus, as I said in my previous post).

I've had COVID-19 twice now and the second time was much worse as it hospitalised me. It really is like Russian roulette as to how you'll respond to it. There are also other issues to consider, such as the various strains that are out there, and the viral load you may initially be exposed to.

If you work somewhere where you're likely to be exposed to more viral particles, then it puts you at a higher risk of becoming more ill with it.

 

[linearb]

There seems to be some research out there that shows PEG to be ototoxic if applied directly to the inner ear. Whether the same effects occur with systemic application... and the amounts of PEG in the vaccine are sufficient enough to cause these reactions, is unknown.

I would not call it "unknown"; millions of people including me have routinely consumed relatively huge amounts of PEG in the form of the constipation drug Miralax, over long periods of time. There are very very very few adverse incident reports and this was reclassified to an OTC drug about 15 years ago.

So, there are no known otological effects of large-dose Miralax dosing over a period of time, even after 10's of millions of people have done this. There's very limited data to suggest that PEG directly in the inner ear is bad. Most of what I've seen come from vaping studies, and vape juices also contain other stuff, so none of it is super clear.

What's clear to me is that the amount of PEG in a mg-dose shot is very very small, and there's no metabolic pathway for an IM shot in your arm to end up inside the inner ear in any meaningful amount.

If there are audiological effects from any of the COVID-19 vaxx, I believe they are immunologic.

Also, for what it's worth, I brought this up in a COVID-19 discussion on a non-health-related board, and within 2 hours 3 different people told me "Hi, I've had severe bilateral multitone tinnitus for years / decades, I had the 1st round of modeRNA and it had absolutely zero impact on my shitty tinnitus". As far as anecdotes go I tend to take stuff like that more seriously from other places just because most of us here are so fucking fixated on our ears.

Final flipside: anecdotes are actually beyond useless for this, and if you want to try to paint a real picture for yourself, you should start mining the actual adverse incident reports from the FDA. Note that if you do this you're also going to want to look at equivalent data for something like a flu or MMR vaccine, just to see the obviousness that "over a period of time, some people will develop tinnitus, no matter what shot they got, or did not get".

Here is the WONDER tool: https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html

Here's an example export someone did, trawling for tinnitus data for me.

Happy hunting.

 

[Chinmoku]

No real difference; I'd try to get one of the better vaxx (Pfizer / modeRNA) with demonstrated efficiency against the SA strain.

What we're seeing from strain divergence makes me think that vaxx'd people will be protected better than people who only had COVID-19 with no vaxx, and people who had COVID-19 and then get the vaxx are probably the safest group in terms of not developing COVID-19 again any time soon.

Thank you linearb and also Ed209. Problem is that in the UK most of the time they want to administer AstraZeneca, and that is what they want to give me too. I have been calling a few places but it seems there is no way to choose the vaccine save paying privately, probably, which I haven't checked yet. I'll try to find out more. I looked for a page explaining the difference among vaccines and the pros/cons of each type, but without much luck.

 

[frischky]

Thanks for the info linearb. I looked at the VAERS website, but even though I am an IT person... could not quite figure out how to pull actual data other than summary numbers. That table is useful.

 

[hans799]

My PCP told me yesterday I am at high risk. He said COVID-19 is not going away anytime soon. He said you have to look at which risk is higher. This is the doctor who would not tell me his opinion either way at the first of the pandemic. He said I need to be prepared to be at home for 1, 2 or 3 years if I choose not to vaccinate. I saw my specialist today and he said I should get the vaccine. I've listened to Dr. Sarah Ballyntine and her podcasts on the vaccines. Tonight, I'm listening to guidance from Dr. Meyers from the Meyer's Way. I have an appointment tomorrow.

Glad to hear. There's a risk either way but in my mind, the risk of COVID-19 increasing tinnitus is vastly greater than the vaccine increasing tinnitus. And the thought of being stuck at home for years is unbearable... prison is considered to be a punishment for a very good reason.

 

[summitplum]

I'm curious to hear if anyone on here had originally antibiotic induced tinnitus? I wonder if cause of tinnitus impacts how you'll respond to the vaccine.

 

[Ed209]

Thank you linearb and also Ed209. Problem is that in the UK most of the time they want to administer AstraZeneca, and that is what they want to give me too. I have been calling a few places but it seems there is no way to choose the vaccine save paying privately, probably, which I haven't checked yet. I'll try to find out more. I looked for a page explaining the difference among vaccines and the pros/cons of each type, but without much luck.

I've heard there's a shortage of Pfizer vaccines in this country (the UK). They were also trialling a mix and match scheme so that you could have one dose of one and another dose of something else. I'm not sure what's happening with that as I haven't followed up on it.

It is pot luck what you get unless you go private.

 

[Ed209]

After the recent AstraZeneca debacle, I found this quite amusing.

 

[TheDanishGirl]

Glad to hear. There's a risk either way but in my mind, the risk of COVID-19 increasing tinnitus is vastly greater than the vaccine increasing tinnitus. And the thought of being stuck at home for years is unbearable... prison is considered to be a punishment for a very good reason.

Some of us are already more or less homebound due to severe hyperacusis

With that said I am more inclined to take the vaccine than not, but if it's the AstraZeneca (which it most likely will be for me, if its approved again, which I definetely think it will be) then that won't give me much peace of mind, in terms of fearing COVID-19, because it only has about 60% effect. Not unless there is a greater effect on protecting against adverse long term effects of COVID-19 will it give me some peace of mind.

I'm not scared of dying from the virus (tinnitus and hyperacusis has made me indifferent to death). I'm scared of catching it, surviving and having to live with even more damage to my body, than what I am living with today.

I would gladly pay to have any of the better vaccines, but that's not possible. You get a specific vaccine chosen for you and you can take it or leave it. That's the protocol... at least in my country.

 

[Juan]

I agree with you Juan for I was apprehensive about having the vaccine. My opinions began to change, when I heard the experiences that people have gone through after getting COVID-19 which aren't pleasant. Many have long term COVID-19 and their body is not the same and therefore decided to have the vaccine.

AstraZeneca Chief Medical Officer has said fewer than 40 cases of blood clots have been reported in 17 million people that have had the vaccine in Europe. Blood clots have occurred in people that had the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines too. Apparently, these figures are very low and blood clots happen all the time in the general population. Presently there is no evidence of a link between AstraZeneca vaccine and blood clots. The EMA is still investigating and will be making an announcement tomorrow.

Michael

I read an expert's report in Spanish and he said blood clots that appeared after getting the AstraZeneca vaccine are not like the usual blood clots. It was technical reading, but the expert's opinion is that there is something weird about them.

I am no expert but feel there is insufficient information about the vaccines and their secondary effects.

People have the right to make informed choices about whether to get vaccinated or not.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I read an expert's report in Spanish and he said blood clots that appeared after getting the AstraZeneca vaccine are not like the usual blood clots. It was technical reading, but the expert's opinion is that there is something weird about them.

I am no expert but feel there is insufficient information about the vaccines and their secondary effects.

People have the right to make informed choices about whether to get vaccinated or not.

Thank you for this information and the expert you refer to is probably right, as I'm a believer in no smoke without fire. All medicines have side effects even the humble paracetamol. If one cares to look there are well over ten side effects listed, some quite severe. However, I made the decision and had the vaccine for reasons mentioned and waiting to be called for second dose in May. My hope is not to experience any adverse effects and if all goes well, according to the data, it's 60, 70 and 90 percent effective against COVID-19. Whatever happens now will be left to time.

I wish you well.
Michael

 

[Dear]

Hello,

I just read tinnitus has been made worse after taking the Moderna or Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine. I am scared to get it now.

What have people's experience been with it?

 

[Michael Leigh]

Hello,

I just read tinnitus has been made worse after taking the Moderna or Pfizer covid 19 vaccine. I am scared to get it now.

What have people's experience been with it?

I had AstraZeneca vaccine and it didn't affect my tinnitus. Every medicine has side effects, even Aspirin, but that doesn't mean you will be affected. My blood pressure medicine is listed as being able to cause ringing in the ears but hasn't made my tinnitus worse.

 

[frischky]

With an appointment for next week, I am sitting on the fence... seriously. Even in the Adverse Effects database, it's rather scary to read... mind you millions and millions of shots have been given, but I don't want to be the 0.5% or whatever that has these adverse affects like vertigo, hearing loss or (increased) tinnitus.

 

[GregCA]

I just read tinnitus has been made worse after taking the Moderna or Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine.

Where did you read that?

 

[frischky]

Where did you read that?

Share Your Coronavirus (COVID-19) Vaccine Experience: Any Impact on Your Tinnitus or Hyperacusis?

 

[Matchbox]

Keep in mind that COVID-19 targets ACE2 receptors, directly potentially affecting blood pressure and blood flow. The vaccine is far safer in theory for your ears than an active COVID-19 infection.

 

[Juan]

Hello,

I just read tinnitus has been made worse after taking the Moderna or Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine. I am scared to get it now.

What have people's experience been with it?

Some people have reported tinnitus getting worse, and I have read a few scary reports of loss of hearing after getting vaccinated. That's why I have decided not to get vaccinated. I am not risking my ears.

 

[Ed209]

Some people have reported tinnitus getting worse, and I have read a few scary reports of loss of hearing after getting vaccinated. That's why I have decided not to get vaccinated. I am not risking my ears.

But if you're concerned by this risk, then why doesn't the virus itself concern you? Hearing issues and tinnitus are becoming a very common complaint with COVID-19, but it's unclear what effect the vaccines have on the ears. There has been a tiny number of reports of SSHL following vaccinations, but there's no clear link to the vaccines causing it. There should be a noticeable spike in the amount of SSHL cases (following vaccinations) then you'd expect to see in an average year. If the number of cases of SSHL hasn't risen, and there's no clear evidence linking the vaccinations to it, then it's much more likely that those people would have acquired SSHL regardless of having the vaccine. There has already been a study done in Manchester, I believe, that linked hearing problems to COVID-19.

This is a similar scenario to the claim that the AstraZeneca vaccine is causing blood clots. The number of cases reported are no different to what you'd expect to find in the natural population.

On a purely anecdotal level, I actually know someone who got SSHL after having the Pfizer vaccine. I posted it on this forum.

 

[linearb]

Thank you linearb and also Ed209. Problem is that in the UK most of the time they want to administer AstraZeneca, and that is what they want to give me too. I have been calling a few places but it seems there is no way to choose the vaccine save paying privately, probably, which I haven't checked yet. I'll try to find out more. I looked for a page explaining the difference among vaccines and the pros/cons of each type, but without much luck.

FWIW I'd personally take AstraZeneca if offered at this point, I think. That initial SA study was pretty terrible and newer numbers look more in line with the other vaxx's.

I've heard that one of the reasons people around me report getting modeRNA instead of Pfizer is the cold storage reqs -- Pfizer is now saying maybe -40C is okay, but they had said -80C for a long time which needs gear that a lot of smaller medical providers may not have, and I think modeRNA is stable at up to 40F or something crazy, so it's just a lot easier for facilities to store and work with safely. I think this might have caught Pfizer a little off guard, too? As a huge multibillion dollar pharma corp, of course they have facilities that can formulate and work with stuff in that temp range, but some little mom and pop pharmacy in the middle of West Virginia probably doesn't.

Some people have reported tinnitus getting worse, and I have read a few scary reports of loss of hearing after getting vaccinated. That's why I have decided not to get vaccinated. I am not risking my ears.

This seems like a cognitive trap -- people avoid getting vaccinated because it feels like a willful action, whereas getting infected is something that's just an ongoing risk as long as the disease is endemic (meaning, forever, since the cat is out of the bag on real containment). It feels like making a choice to "keep my ears safer" but actually it's putting you at a greater risk .

COVID-19 is demonstrably linked to hearing loss and damage, much moreso than any vaccine has been.

Have you considered the huge number of things that people report making their tinnitus worse, not because there's any possible mechanism, but because humans are really bad at understanding correlation vs causality?

If there were some audiological epidemic happening as a result of the vaccines, we'd know it. If these vaccines were causing hearing issues in even 0.5% of people, we'd know it. I don't trust anecdotes; I do, generally, trust continually revised opinions based on large longitudinal datasets. We now have that dataset for COVID-19 vaxx side effects, it grows every day.

 

[Juan]

On a purely anecdotal level, I actually know someone who got SSHL after having the Pfizer vaccine. I posted it on this forum.

I don't want to risk SSHL no matter if there are slim chances of it happening.

Some workmates got COVID-19 and they were fine after like a month. It was like a bad flu in most cases, and there were some people that did not have any symptoms whatsoever, but had the virus.

So I don't see the point of getting vaccinated when the effects of the vaccine are the same effects of the virus. Most people I have talked to have experienced fever, extreme fatigue, or have vomited for a day or two after getting vaccinated.

 

[Juan]

COVID-19 is demonstrably linked to hearing loss and damage, much moreso than any vaccine has been.

The people I know who have had COVID-19 recovered quite well after a month, and none of them reported any hearing issues.

 

[linearb]

As far as cognitive trap, I should make something clear so I don't seem holier than thou or a hypocrite, because I thought in the same circles for years.

From the ages of 25-36 I never got a flu shot, for three reasons:

1. I was afraid of any impact on my tinnitus.
2. The idea that an influenza could destroy my hearing never occurred to me.
3. The idea that me being unvaccinated could unwittingly spread fatal infections to at-risk populations never occurred to me.

When we had our first child, my wife, who knows me well enough to know I resist any efforts at being told what to do, simply suggested that I do my own research into flu vaccines as it relates to new parents. I did a days long deep dive of whitepapers, and came to three conclusions:

1. The risk profile for flu vaccines is extremely low and doesn't carry any particular audiological risk.
2. The risk of my newborn child dying of influenza because I didn't get a vaxx, is something which is significantly nonzero, is easy to measure, and has been demonstrated very reliably in multiple studies.
3. If I am going to get flu vaxx, I am going to make sure that I get single-dose vial preparations, because some inexpensive multidose formulations still use trace mercury as an antiseptic, and I don't want to be injected with heavy metals for any reason.

Since then I've had annual flu shots. Sometimes I feel a little crappy for a day, and once I had a tinnitus spike that lasted 2-3 days but which I have no real reason to think had anything to do with the vaxx.

I hate to bring up influenza in the COVID-19 thread because there are so many bad takes there, but in terms of the vaccines I think some of the comparisons get a lot more reasonable, especially if COVID-19 really does turn into an annual shot.

Also, side effect here -- ~12-15% of routine upper respiratory infections people get, are coronaviruses at least suspected to get at least partial immunity inferred by the COVID-19 vaxx's. So, in addition to limiting your COVID-19 risk, you're probably cutting your overall annual illness risk by some considerable amount.

@Lane, I think you might think my point #3 there is interesting, even if we overall see this issue differently. Here in Vermont, when I called my provider to ask about this, they told me, point blank, "we give everyone the "pediatric" formulations. We do not inject thimerosal here". This was said matter of factly and in a way that made me think this was a common and reasonable question they were used to getting.

The CDC has never admitted that thimerosal is a problem, and yet, they have also somewhat quietly completely banned it... in pediatric vaccines only. There's an element of logic to that, damage from heavy metals is net cumulative over time, but if something is unsafe for a 3 year old to get once, it's quite possibly unsafe for an adult to get repeat doses over a long time frame?

Fortunately, none of the adjuvants or encapsulating agents in any of the COVID-19 vaxx's are sketchy in this way, as far as I can tell.

 

[MBH]

I know NY started with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. My husband went down to NYC for it at 0300 and afterwards had a little cold. He does not have tinnitus. The Johnson & Johnson is a one shot deal.

I'm still waiting for mine.

 

[Ed209]

I don't want to risk SSHL no matter if there are slim chances of it happening.

But there's a substantially larger risk of a COVID-19 infection causing worse tinnitus and/or hearing damage.

Some workmates got COVID-19 and they were fine after like a month. It was like a bad flu in most cases, and there were some people that did not have any symptoms whatsoever, but had the virus.

So I don't see the point of getting vaccinated when the effects of the vaccine are the same effects of the virus. Most people I have talked to have experienced fever, extreme fatigue, or have vomited for a day or two after getting vaccinated.

I've had it twice and both experiences were different. The first time I was ill with a fever and had a lasting cough. The second time I was horribly ill for 12 days and was then hospitalized for a week as I had developed type 1 respiratory failure. I wasn't eating and I felt terrible. At one point, my oxygen levels dropped just below 80. I still can't breathe properly, I'm still very fatigued, and I've been left with pins and needles in my hands that I'm hoping will go away.

So I don't see the point of getting vaccinated when the effects of the vaccine are the same effects of the virus. Most people I have talked to have experienced fever, extreme fatigue, or have vomited for a day or two after getting vaccinated.

This isn't true, though. The vaccines stop the virus from advancing and making you really ill, and they stop you from potentially dying. The virus itself can wreak havoc on your body, so you are actually putting yourself more at risk by not having it rather than the other way around.