“Tinnitus Truths”

[Greg Sacramento]

I have severe physical pain and Tolle who does not experience physical pain believes that for those that do, it's just a matter of mind. That one still should be able to experience joy and not feel pain.

I posted about some concerns with Tolle not per self situation, but his main thesis of "living in the now" and a blank mind which is considered a very dangerous practice for the elderly. The mind and memory must be used. (Garcia Molina et al., 2015).

Neuro disease pathologies that include muscle weakness appear as problems of attention, memory and functions that include Alzheimer's, Lou Gehrig's and Huntington's disease. Without using memory and active thought when elderly, these diseases and pre disease cell neutrons can be stressed. Many medical research articles state that memory and thought must be used by the elderly. Stroke and heart disease is more common for those who don't. It's no wonder why doctors think that Tolle with no medical background is dangerous.

https://neurodiscovery.harvard.edu/challenge

"keeping your brain as sharp as possible and your memory and cognitive functions as sharp as possible" could mitigate your risk of contracting Alzheimer's, says Charles J. Fuschillo Jr., president and chief executive officer of the Alzheimer's Foundation of America in New York City. "You have to be proactive about your brain health."

 

[Elmer B Fuddled]

Me thinks if someone took a big hammer and smacked Tolle between the eyes he would surely understand pain.

 

[Lane]

@Greg Sacramento -- To me, your comments touch on a whether a person might be more heart-oriented or more head-oriented. Most of us lean one way or another, but I think the key is balance. It seems most people tend to be head-oriented, and go about their lives thinking a little to much in "logical" terms.

I think heart-oriented people try to rely more on their heart, their intuition (gut feelings), and trying to "flow" with the "rhythm" of life. I think this is what certain authors stress when they talk about being in the "now". I can't say for sure, because that concept never held much traction with me, and I never delved deeply into it. I think when a person is balanced, they're not being oriented in one direction at the expense of the other. -- I hope that makes a bit of sense.

 

[Jazzer]

There may be something in what you say here Lane.
Yes - people - attitudes - are different.
Greg is a medical boffin - a scientist.
I owe my very life to psychotherapy.
I am acutely aware that all of us have different symptomatic severity to deal with.
We cannot know another's noise or pain.
My noise level is hateful - my pain not a patch on Greg's.

I am not here to defend ET on every utterance.
I can see the dilemma.
By the way - ET does not say 'you will not feel the pain.'
He suggests that stillness, love, joy can still be possible, despite the pain.
I am in constant noise, frequent pain, but at times I can feel stillness, love of my adorable family, and something close to pleasure in their company.
It does not mean that I no longer have to wade waist deep in 'fucking' hell ever again.

There is no treatment - no cure - no help.
If some philosopher wishes to encourage me with a suggestion of hope - then in the absence of any other hope whatsoever - I will try to run with it.
I do need something to encourage me, something to grasp hold of, other than total morbidity.

I have lost all semblance of silence, or even quiet.
Would I like to try to believe in 'Stillness?'
Yes please.
Whether either of you gentlemen, friends, can come close to understanding me, will be interesting.
I think the world of you both.
It is not my intention to 'rattle cages.'

 

[Stu1983]

@OnceUponaTime

Hi Mary
I hope you're well. How have you been?

love and respect
Stu

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Lane

To me, your comments touch on a whether a person might be more heart-oriented or more head-oriented.

One can place heart-oriented and head-oriented into an interest search and come up with pages of discussions and trait lists for each.

One heart-oriented trait that I may have is I try to take care of others' needs before my own.
Some people do on to others that they wouldn't do to a family member. For example: I know an ENT that would never clean her children's ears with anything other than hand tools, but she uses loud suction on tinnitus patients.

His pain body theory is one of his cornerstones. He has said to patients in a hospital near me, veterans with serious war injuries, that their egos are causing them pain. What a jack and BS artist. He thinks that he knows everything. He has the biggest ego of anyone that I have ever met. He had a second or third home not far from this hospital. One night, he came in to the ER with someone from his spin team complaining about a toothache. He got mad and wanted our on-call dentist to open his office at 5 in the morning.

 

[Jazzer]

In dire situations where there is no help, there is nothing much to even hope for.
Chronic noise - chronic pain are like that.
Is it any wonder that sufferers clutch at straws?

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Chronic noise

Warm compresses under ears.

Then your form of breathing mediation.
Try soft mediation music with that while lying on side of bed - have your wife rub oils gently into your sacrum. She will need a proper chair.

Place mediation music into an internet search.

 

[Jazzer]

Warm compresses under ears.

Then your form of breathing mediation.
Try soft mediation music with that while lying on side of bed - have your wife rub oils gently into your sacrum. She will need a proper chair.

Place mediation music into an internet search.

Thank you Greg.

Yes I do some meditation every day as you know.
My noise never leaves me alone.
Always the same consistent volume.
Some days I seem to cope without too much distress - other days it's really bad.
I know I just have to cope.
There is no choice.
Sylvie made a hypnotherapy tape for me which I often use if I wake too early.
It runs for 22 minutes.
Her loving voice is so good for me - I rarely hear more than five minutes.
When I wake I can usually feel the difference.

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[Jazzer]

I have just raised this point on Eckhart Tolle's study group.
———————————————————————
"Suffering is necessary until you realise it is unnecessary"
Tell that to a man who has just been bayoneted in the stomach,
or to a lady riddled with cancerous Tumours,
or to a kiddy who has just been hit by a car.......???

 

[Autumnly]

"Suffering is necessary until you realise it is unnecessary"

Spoiler

This reminds me of Jon Kabat-Zinn. Many CBT and mindfulness approaches for tinnitus are based on him.

• "Kabat-Zinn et al. believed the process of pain reduction occurred by "uncoupling" the physical sensation, from the emotional and cognitive experience of pain, the patient is able to reduce the pain."
• Jon Kabat-Zinn: "There is a way to work with all this, based on Buddhist meditative practices, that can liberate you, to a very large extent, from the experience of pain. Whether or not you can reduce the level of sensory pain, the affective and cognitive contributions to the pain—which make it much worse—usually can be lessened. And then, very often, the sensory component of the pain changes as well." - source
• Jon Kabat-Zinn: "If you distinguish between pain and suffering, change is possible. As the saying goes, "Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." source
• The British Tinnitus Association bases much of their mindfulness approaches on Jon Kabat-Zinn, even going as far as saying: "It is possible to learn to live with tinnitus without being distressed by it" source

CBT and mindfulness obviously have their place in managing chronic pain and tinnitus but these methods can be used in ways that shame and blame severe sufferers. Nonetheless, I'm not here to tell anyone whether or not they're "allowed" to take something positive from Tolle, Kabat-Zinn or McKenna. If you can find support and encouragement in their words, don't let others take that from you. As long as this doesn't turn into unquestioned loyalty and an undermining of someone's suffering, there's not much harm being done (if at all). While I'm personally very critical of the people mentioned above and see them on the same level as Julian Cowan Hill, I'm not denying that they have helped others.

 

[Jazzer]

I have just raised this point on Eckhart Tolle's study group.
———————————————————————
"Suffering is necessary until you realise it is unnecessary"
Tell that to a man who has just been bayoneted in the stomach,
or to a lady riddled with cancerous Tumours,
or to a kiddy who has just been hit by a car.......???

I will be amazed if I get any recognition or reply.
Most people get polarised - partisan.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

A complicated discussion for sure. Jazzer - Dave and myself have communicated for a few years and sometimes several times a day. I care about Dave and I know that he feels the same toward me. We are both old.

My mom developed dementia and then Parkinson's. She passed a few weeks before my whiplash. I started to post here a few months afterward. She was a reader of Tolle's books and practiced his living in the now. She started not to use her memory. When I would call or visit her, she would ask the same questions or mention the same things over and over. This is part of aging, but her private doctor blames living in the now as her cause of dementia. I have heard the same from families of patients as well as seeing written comments about the dangers of only living in the now from those that manage neurological associations.

Pain crisis centers also don't approve of Tolle's non medical attitude for those with very severe physical pain. They do like meditation practice and such treatments as rubbing oils gently into your sacrum. Often heavy pain meds are used, but with tinnitus that may be a concern.

Most regulars here have taken strong stands on different issues, some medical and some off-topic. I often don't get that involved or form opinions towards others when there's disagreeing thoughts. I do believe that certain things need addressing such as better provider and safe medical care, dehydration and hypertension.

I've shared enough about this - I will continue talking to Dave by email.

 

[Jazzer]

I will continue talking to Dave

I hoped you would Greg.
Thank you my friend.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I hoped you would Greg.
Thank you my friend.

I will. My first of five operations on my jaws, mouth and mouth nerves was cancelled tomorrow because my B12 levels are too high. I will need to wait a month or two, but I don't know if I take this mouth pain any longer. I also need a stent placed in my adnominal aortic, as I have an aneurysm. I need a stent placed in carotid. I also need heart valve repair. All my pulsatile sounds and severe tinnitus from hearing loss - (80 decibels now in both ears) and whiplash is like listening to the Boston Pops.

Stay clam my friend.

 

[Sevv]

I read somewhere about buddhism:

"Life is the small bird."

I like that one. Seeing life as a series of small daily pleasantries. For me it's like, when I see a nice picture: What a nice picture (and not: I want to be there while tuning out what a nice picture it is).

 

[Jazzer]

 

[Jazzer]

 

[Star64]

 

[Star64]

 

[Elmer B Fuddled]

I will be amazed if I get any recognition or reply.
Most people get polarised - partisan.

I think first off that suffering comes in different forms. If a parent looses a child they suffer emotionally, if a person steps on a nail they suffer from the pain of stepping on the nail. We tinnitus people suffer from a complete different type, our suffering isn't so much as pain or stress but from the ability to cope with the constant noise, which isn't pain or emotion, it's the knowing this isn't going to stop or a cure.

 

[Jazzer]

To @Star64 & @Elmer B Fuddled
& @Greg Sacramento
- thank goodness us folks who are in pain have the understanding of each other,
Dave xxx

 

[aot]

 

[Jazzer]

 

[Elmer B Fuddled]

I remember the childhood days of being in the wild of North Idaho, where most days the only noise would be that damn donkey braying next to the back door, or maybe the rooster crowing. As children noise was a daily thing. Now, noise is a constant burden, the pollution from the constant movement of people, cars, men building no matter where you turn there's noise. Some days it gets to the point I wish I were an ostrich so I can bury my head in the sand.
Even ear protection is bothersome.

 

[Daniel Lion]

Yesterday I had a wonderful morning. I took my kids to the pool and we were the only ones there, that's good for my audiological condition and subsequent stresses.

I came home and put on a pod cast of Russel Brand and Eckhart Toel.
It was pretty darn interesting and I slowly relaxed and fell into a deep sleep, a proper nap in the afternoon.
Thought that was funny, hope you guys do too.

@Greg Sacramento, I can only send you hugs, respect, admiration, and prayers that you can have some well deserved peace and less pain.
Same for you @Jazzer and anybody here in pain. Me, hug to self.

 

[Jazzer]

Yesterday I had a wonderful morning. I took my kids to the pool and we were the only ones there, that's good for my audiological condition and subsequent stresses.

I came home and put on a pod cast of Russel Brand and Eckhart Toel.
It was pretty darn interesting and I slowly relaxed and fell into a deep sleep, a proper nap in the afternoon.
Thought that was funny, hope you guys do too.

@Greg Sacramento, I can only send you hugs, respect, admiration, and prayers that you can have some well deserved peace and less pain.
Same for you @Jazzer and anybody here in pain. Me, hug to self.

Like you Daniel - I take whatever comfort I can from whatever source I can find.
We are all very different - though we share a similar predicament.
Best wishes to you brother,
Dave xx

 

[Jazzer]

 

[Star64]

 

[Jazzer]