2020 US Presidential Election

[GlennS]

Don't get me wrong. I don't think we should disrespect our alliances --

Here's the thing. I think Trump's failures supersede his politics. What I mean by that is it should be possible to support a lot of his policies but reject him as incompetent and corrupt. I think that's the turning of the corner the right needs to take, to not hitch their agenda wagon on Trump in particular because the cost of having Trump in power is just too high for the republic to withstand.

The problem is the right treats every attack on Trump as an attack against their shared ideology. While some of the objection to Trump orients around his policies, not all of it does. His impeachment had very little to do with his platform, for instance, but having that impeachment on his record should be Germaine to whether he should serve.

It's this all-or-nothing approach on the part of conservatives that have boxed them into a corner. I do have severe problems with much of the conservative platform but this can be revisited AFTER excising the cancer of Trump himself. It really is worth conservatives falling on their sword by having Biden in power for 4 years just to get Trump the hell out of the White House. Then they can find someone new to support, but in the meantime, at least we can hopefully return to some semblance of norms and ethics.

Unfortunately I think the right is just too brainwashed to accept the wisdom of such a course of action. So they need to go all the way down with the ship first before capitulating and regrouping.

 

[GlennS]

There's nothing radical about Medicare for All or the Green New Deal.

You can't really say that. Radicalism is relative. To joe sixpack, such things ARE radical. You can't convince them otherwise.

The fact is we're at the end of the ability of business as usual to function. Change is coming whether we like it or not, and that's scary to a lot of people.

Conservatives cling, magical thinking style, to the idea of restoring an old order that is simply impossible. The world is changing and requires that we adapt accordingly. But the problem with the left is it's much too Pollyanna about the future we're barreling into. That future is going to be one of scarcity. That will not allow us to share equally as it will lower rather than raise all boats. The green new deal clings to this fantasy that there is more than enough for all. There won't be, not with a growing population and an increasingly chaotic and denuded biosphere.

The fork in the road for utopia was really back around the early 80s. Carter said put on a sweater. Reagan said let's bring the 50s back again. The future's now decided. It will be one marked with less and less. No matter how much of a bleeding heart you are, there will have to be haves and have nots.

 

[OnceUponaTime]

That's just not true. I do not know what schools in America promote Marxism

Where have you been? That is all they are teaching in school. But God forbid someone sneezes and a child says, "God bless you," they get suspended from school for 3 days! But they teach about all other religions freely. My nephew had a school assignment, to memorize part of the Koran and come dress in a Muslim robe and bow down and pray to Allah as part of a class assignment. If you are going to teach about one religion, teach about all. IMHO, that is a parent's job, not the school.

https://noqreport.com/2020/09/10/parents-outraged-as-elementary-school-promotes-cultural-marxism/

https://www.theepochtimes.com/schoo...l-marxism-spread-through-america_3152761.html

https://canadafreepress.com/article/how-cultural-marxism-is-grinding-down-americas-public-schools

https://www.gopusa.com/marxism-in-the-classroom-riots-in-the-streets/

Insert from above link:

Chapter 13 of Skousen's book lists 45 goals of communism in America. Number 17 reads:

"Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of the teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks." And so they did. While American parents were busy working to sustain their families and achieve a piece of the American dream, their children were at schools with teachers and textbooks that taught them to hate America, the Judeo-Christian foundations of our national identity, and the remarkable individuals who built this country on the principles of the Declaration of Independence, our Constitution, the Federalist Papers, and more."

Let me know if you need more links or if you wish to provide some for me, I'd be happy to read them. I'm an avid reader.

 

[Luman]

That's just not true. I do not know what schools in America promote Marxism, but I never had the opportunity to go.

They don't just work elsewhere because he says so, there's plenty of evidence that suggests it works elsewhere. Plenty of rankings place countries like Canada and the UK ahead of ours, despite the fact that our system is way more expensive.

And yes obviously it's not free, that's why it's called "tuition free", it's publicly funded. You don't have to agree with it of course tho.

Medicare and Medicaid are pretty popular tho and they're a lot closer to what M4A would be.

"Marxism and feminism, Marxism and deconstruction, Marxism and race - this is where the exciting debates are,'' said Jonathan M. Wiener, a professor of history at the University of California at Irvine. Omissions in History

In response to feminists' claims that all the categories of Marxism are organized around male concerns and experience, Professor Wiener said, ''To understand women's history you need a completely different set of analytic categories.'' A new group of Marxist feminist historians is now trying to reconcile the differences, he added."
The above is from a 1989 NYT article, about Marxism in colleges. They have shuffled it around a bit, so that the label isn't used, but it's still Marxism. Another quote:
"Some scholars try to incorporate the cacophonous pluralism of radical theories into their work.

Asserting that ''relieving anxiety is not the object of academic work,'' Gayatri Spivak, a literary critic who is the Andrew W. Mellon Professor of English at the University of Pittsburgh, uses elements of deconstructionist theory, Marxist theory and feminist theory in her work.

''The three are not married in my use of them,'' she said. ''They are always bringing each other to crisis.'' A Matter for Analysis

Whatever anxiety may spring from the theoretical wars, Marxist scholars greet the apparently robust vitality of capitalism with equanimity. For Mr. Wiener, this is a matter for analysis, not anxiety."
https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/25/us/education-the-mainstreaming-of-marxism-in-us-colleges.html

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Canada and the UK pay less for healthcare, because their taxes are very high. I do think that our healthcare may be a bit over the top. We have doctor visits much more frequently, colonoscopies are routine which includes sedation for the procedure. Many countries do not have routine colonoscopies,. Sedation for colonoscopies is not routine in Great Britain. In Finland only 6% of colonoscopies are performed with sedation. This is unheard of in the United States. So basically, you want to downgrade, by American standards, our healthcare to a level that is equal to what they have in Europe. Good luck with that.

Free tuition is free for the students, yet people who are struggling, and possibly didn't have the opportunity to go to college, must pay for other people's children to go to expensive Ivy League colleges. Not something that I support, but Bernie is a far leftist who makes promises that he can't keep, to get support. Biden has promised Black voters that he is interested in the idea of reparations for them, all the time knowing full well that this is not going to happen - and Biden isn't even left wing. Lately, perhaps because he wants to win, he (Biden) seems to have shifted back a bit, to his original identity as a moderate Democrat.

 

[GlennS]

Every government leader is responsible. Every single one of them.

A little false-equivalence there. You have to strain to tar the left by looking at the earliest stages. Meanwhile Trump has continued to this day to downplay the risks and flount mask usage. Simply not equivalent.

 

[Lane]

Prestigious medical journal calls for US leadership to be voted out over Covid-19 failure

(CNN)In an unprecedented move, the New England Journal of Medicine on Wednesday published an editorial written by its editors condemning the Trump administration for its response to the Covid-19 pandemic -- and calling for the current leadership in the United States to be voted out of office. -- "We rarely publish editorials signed by all the editors," said Dr. Eric Rubin, editor-in-chief of the medical journal and an author of the new editorial.

The editorial, which Rubin said was drafted in August, details how the United States leads the world in Covid-19 cases and deaths. So far, more than 7.5 million people in the United States have been diagnosed with Covid-19 and more than 200,000 people have died of the disease.

"This crisis has produced a test of leadership. With no good options to combat a novel pathogen, countries were forced to make hard choices about how to respond. Here in the United States, our leaders have failed that test. They have taken a crisis and turned it into a tragedy," the editorial says...​

 

[Born To Slay]

https://backcountrycanadatravel.com/why-moving-to-canada-is-a-bad-idea/

Every country has its own set of problems. No country is exempt.
The grass is not always greener on the other side. Sigh.

Insert from above link:

Canada:
Make sure you bring lots of money to live your Canadian dream, so you don't have to depend on Canadian wages.

Our job market sucks big time. Expect very low pay. If you need to work when you get here, have a job lined up. Jobs here are not easy to get. Many Canadians work at two to three different jobs to have a large enough income to survive.

Do you know about Hunger in Canada? According to Food Banks Canada, thirteen percent of Canadians live in a state of food insecurity, mainly caused by low income, which consistently affects more than four million of us at any given time.

We don't have Free Healthcare like everyone tells you. The Canadian health care system is dysfunctional and sucks. What does Free Health Insurance in Canada mean? In some provinces, you pay Health Insurance premium, unless you're on a minimum income. The Canada Health Act does not cover prescription drugs, home care or long-term care, prescription glasses or dental care. Costs for prescription drugs come out of your own pocket unless you have extended Health Insurance. Lots of people can only afford extended insurance when it's paid by their employer. And, learn to be patient; it's not unusual to be on a two-year waiting list until you get surgery. People who have the money often go to the US to have surgery done. The Canadian health system sucks big time, but that's material for another blog.

Young people have limited opportunities. Going to College or University doesn't guarantee a job. According to The Globe and Mail dealing with 'job churn' is a reality. Some graduates are forced to work for no pay to gain experience. Many end up with low-paid jobs and struggle for years to pay back their student loan. No wonder not many young Canadians are travelling to broaden their horizon, how could they afford it. If you have children, I suggest doing some research on this topic.

The Canadian education system has big flaws and needs a major overhaul. Maybe that's why homeschooling is so popular in Canada, even in large cities. As long as the government saves money to put into the education system, there is not much hope of any improvements.

It is no secret that Canada has a drinking problem. Some say it's caused by boredom and a lack of anything better to do. The strict drinking laws are old-fashioned and cause the opposite of what they're supposed to do. Many high school kids are already addicted to alcohol. The legal drinking age in Canada is 19, in Alberta, Manitoba and Quebec 18. According to a Government website, the average age when teens start to drink in Canada is 13.

And the list goes on...

UK:
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5962/economics/main-problems-of-uk-economy/

Insert from above link:
"...in Britain we only really have relative poverty, which is a function of inequality."

I didn't say Canada is great and America sucks but less biased sources seem to suggest good things about Canada's healthcare system. It routinely ranks above America's. Here's one from this year:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world

Here's another with the UK and Canada ahead of us:

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...most-well-developed-public-health-care-system

Yeah, all countries have their problems but it's a stretch to say our system is better.

Where have you been? That is all they are teaching in school. But God forbid someone sneezes and a child says, "God bless you," they get suspended from school for 3 days! But they teach about all other religions freely. My nephew had a school assignment, to memorize part of the Koran and come dress in a Muslim robe and bow down and pray to Allah as part of a class assignment. If you are going to teach about one religion, teach about all. IMHO, that is a parent's job, not the school.

https://noqreport.com/2020/09/10/parents-outraged-as-elementary-school-promotes-cultural-marxism/

https://www.theepochtimes.com/schoo...l-marxism-spread-through-america_3152761.html

https://canadafreepress.com/article/how-cultural-marxism-is-grinding-down-americas-public-schools

https://www.gopusa.com/marxism-in-the-classroom-riots-in-the-streets/

Insert from above link:

Chapter 13 of Skousen's book lists 45 goals of communism in America. Number 17 reads:

"Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of the teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks." And so they did. While American parents were busy working to sustain their families and achieve a piece of the American dream, their children were at schools with teachers and textbooks that taught them to hate America, the Judeo-Christian foundations of our national identity, and the remarkable individuals who built this country on the principles of the Declaration of Independence, our Constitution, the Federalist Papers, and more."

Let me know if you need more links or if you wish to provide some for me, I'd be happy to read them. I'm an avid reader.

So you found some isolated incidents from across the United States that suggest that. Can you show an example where a school curriculum is promarxist?

Furthermore, we do learn about all religions in school. I learned about all the major religions in 9th grade social studies. I still remember it. It did include Christianity.

And that's great that it's their goal but it's everyone's goal. President Trump vows to make education patriotic. So isn't he doing the same thing? History isn't supposed to encourage or dissuade patriotism. So it seems everyone with an agenda wants education to do what they want.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/17/9141...education-commission-a-largely-political-move

"Marxism and feminism, Marxism and deconstruction, Marxism and race - this is where the exciting debates are,'' said Jonathan M. Wiener, a professor of history at the University of California at Irvine. Omissions in History

In response to feminists' claims that all the categories of Marxism are organized around male concerns and experience, Professor Wiener said, ''To understand women's history you need a completely different set of analytic categories.'' A new group of Marxist feminist historians is now trying to reconcile the differences, he added."
The above is from a 1989 NYT article, about Marxism in colleges. They have shuffled it around a bit, so that the label isn't used, but it's still Marxism. Another quote:
"Some scholars try to incorporate the cacophonous pluralism of radical theories into their work.

Asserting that ''relieving anxiety is not the object of academic work,'' Gayatri Spivak, a literary critic who is the Andrew W. Mellon Professor of English at the University of Pittsburgh, uses elements of deconstructionist theory, Marxist theory and feminist theory in her work.

''The three are not married in my use of them,'' she said. ''They are always bringing each other to crisis.'' A Matter for Analysis

Whatever anxiety may spring from the theoretical wars, Marxist scholars greet the apparently robust vitality of capitalism with equanimity. For Mr. Wiener, this is a matter for analysis, not anxiety."
https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/25/us/education-the-mainstreaming-of-marxism-in-us-colleges.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Canada and the UK pay less for healthcare, because their taxes are very high. I do think that our healthcare may be a bit over the top. We have doctor visits much more frequently, colonoscopies are routine which includes sedation for the procedure. Many countries do not have routine colonoscopies,. Sedation for colonoscopies is not routine in Great Britain. In Finland only 6% of colonoscopies are performed with sedation. This is unheard of in the United States. So basically, you want to downgrade, by American standards, our healthcare to a level that is equal to what they have in Europe. Good luck with that.

Free tuition is free for the students, yet people who are struggling, and possibly didn't have the opportunity to go to college, must pay for other people's children to go to expensive Ivy League colleges. Not something that I support, but Bernie is a far leftist who makes promises that he can't keep, to get support. Biden has promised Black voters that he is interested in the idea of reparations for them, all the time knowing full well that this is not going to happen - and Biden isn't even left wing. Lately, perhaps because he wants to win, he (Biden) seems to have shifted back a bit, to his original identity as a moderate Democrat.

So because some professors are Marxist that means the profession as a whole has been overtaken? It'd be weird if there were none of them at all. The numbers don't suggest the bias is that large. A majority of professors actually identified as moderates in one study:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...n-left-questions-assumptions-about-what-means

This link in general backs up that while in general professors lean left, it's not because of discrimination and it varies widely depending in location and field of study.

European standards often outperform American ones and I linked some analysis above in this post on that. While America may have a win here and there, it should be winning everything by a long shot. America spends 17% of GDP, that's 2 to 3 times as much as our competitors. Is our healthcare really twice as good? It can't be if many routinely outrank us overall. The fact we can realistically debate this is kind of stunning considering the money spent.

On college, Bernie is clear that only going public colleges would free. Your post shows you don't really know what he proposed.

 

[OnceUponaTime]

Prestigious medical journal calls for US leadership to be voted out over Covid-19 failure

(CNN)In an unprecedented move, the New England Journal of Medicine on Wednesday published an editorial written by its editors condemning the Trump administration for its response to the Covid-19 pandemic -- and calling for the current leadership in the United States to be voted out of office. -- "We rarely publish editorials signed by all the editors," said Dr. Eric Rubin, editor-in-chief of the medical journal and an author of the new editorial.

The editorial, which Rubin said was drafted in August, details how the United States leads the world in Covid-19 cases and deaths. So far, more than 7.5 million people in the United States have been diagnosed with Covid-19 and more than 200,000 people have died of the disease.

"This crisis has produced a test of leadership. With no good options to combat a novel pathogen, countries were forced to make hard choices about how to respond. Here in the United States, our leaders have failed that test. They have taken a crisis and turned it into a tragedy," the editorial says...

Seems like everyone has a different opinion. The Great Barrington Declaration signed by all these prestigious Epidemiologists and public health scientists. Go figure.

And in contrast...

https://gbdeclaration.org/

The Great Barrington Declaration​

As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection. ​

Coming from both the left and right, and around the world, we have devoted our careers to protecting people. Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health. The results (to name a few) include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health – leading to greater excess mortality in years to come, with the working class and younger members of society carrying the heaviest burden. Keeping students out of school is a grave injustice.

Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed.

Fortunately, our understanding of the virus is growing. We know that vulnerability to death from COVID-19 is more than a thousand-fold higher in the old and infirm than the young. Indeed, for children, COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms, including influenza.

As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all – including the vulnerable – falls. We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity – i.e. the point at which the rate of new infections is stable – and that this can be assisted by (but is not dependent upon) a vaccine. Our goal should therefore be to minimize mortality and social harm until we reach herd immunity.

The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk. We call this Focused Protection.

Adopting measures to protect the vulnerable should be the central aim of public health responses to COVID-19. By way of example, nursing homes should use staff with acquired immunity and perform frequent PCR testing of other staff and all visitors. Staff rotation should be minimized. Retired people living at home should have groceries and other essentials delivered to their home. When possible, they should meet family members outside rather than inside. A comprehensive and detailed list of measures, including approaches to multi-generational households, can be implemented, and is well within the scope and capability of public health professionals.

Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity.

On October 4, 2020, this declaration was authored and signed in Great Barrington, United States, by:

Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, a biostatistician, and epidemiologist with expertise in detecting and monitoring of infectious disease outbreaks and vaccine safety evaluations.

Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modeling of infectious diseases.

Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician, epidemiologist, health economist, and public health policy expert focusing on infectious diseases and vulnerable population.


Are they all saying that Trump was right all this time?

 

[FGG]

Not to bring up abortion again but the Regeneron drug Trump was given was partially developed using embryonic cells.

The drug that Trump is now touting as a cure (honestly, this drug holds promise unlike Hydroxychloroquine).

How do pro-life conservatives feel about this:

Regeneron Position on Stem Cell Research

 

[OnceUponaTime]

So you found some isolated incidents from across the United States that suggest that. Can you show an example where a school curriculum is promarxist?

They are not isolated. It is happening all over our schools.

Sure, here's a good read.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/zieve/130509

Furthermore, we do learn about all religions in school. I learned about all the major religions in 9th grade social studies. I still remember it. It did include Christianity.

Well, my nephew did not learn about Christ and did not had to learn the Lord's Prayer and pray to God. (This was in a California public school.) Let's not forget that all schools do not teach the same. It is impossible.

I do agree with you that everyone has an agenda.

Yeah, all countries have their problems but it's a stretch to say our system is better.

I did not say our system was better.
For everything that I say or you say, there's always another opinion.

 

[OnceUponaTime]

Several of the liberals/leftists here put me on ignore for telling the truth. A few whined to the mods to get me reprimanded.

No way! Why?

I enjoy an open discussion as long as everyone is respectful and kind but the minute anyone crosses that line with me the conversation is over. I offer respect and want nothing but the same in return. Anyone that gets angry at politics needs a reality check. Both sides have said and done things that are simply wrong.

I have many friends that are from both sides and I love and respect them equally.

We are a diverse group of people here on Tinnitus Talk, with different ideas, moral values, opinions, religions, beliefs and this makes for different opinions about everything.

What I am sure of is that if any of the 2 candidates "promises" to put a hefty sum of money for tinnitus research, that candidate will get many votes from Tinnitus Talk. Hahaha...

 

[PeteJ]

Other countries took measures, including lockdowns, travel restrictions etc. Total lockdowns, and it contained the virus from spreading when cases were peaking in March and April.

But Trump did nothing. Said "bleach" could cure coronavirus. And Trump also said literally that "coronavirus will be gone just like a miracle!"

The guy is just a fool.

Sweden didn't. Belarus didn't. A few others too.

By your flawed and irrational logic, those countries' populations should be all dead by now.

You liberals are sad.

 

[Luman]

I didn't say Canada is great and America sucks but less biased sources seem to suggest good things about Canada's healthcare system. It routinely ranks above America's. Here's one from this year:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world

That study was done by WHO, who hates the U.S. I used to believe as you do, that other countries had better healthcare than we do. I voted for Obama twice and got stuck with the worst, most expensive healthcare in the world for the middle class: OBAMACARE.

WHO is a lying, communistic, organization that took many millions from the U.S. in aid. They consistently emphasized negative, totally prejudicial viewpoints about the United States healthcare system through reports that sounded legitimate. The have been doing this for many years. WHO eventually screwed us royally by trying to cover up the fact that their favorite country, China, who contributes a small fraction of what we did to WHO, did not disclose the truth about the spread of coronavirus and set us up for an infection rate that has taken the world by storm and broken the backs of every Western economy, and many non-Western ones as well. This is what they do.

Never will I ever support WHO, or vote for a Democrat, again in my life. If you have had good experiences with Obamacare, and actually believe the lies that they spread about the U.S. having the worst healthcare in the industrialized world, fine - I bought their BS hook, line and sinker, and regretted it after liar-in-chief Obama took away our private, state sponsored insurance and forced us to go on Obamacare, which was substandard to every health care plan I have ever had.

I will never vote Democrat again, under any circumstances. Obamacare was not the first thing the Democrats did that was hideous, but it was the final straw for me.

 

[Jack Straw]

This thread is about to get spicy in the coming months! Stay civil everyone! lol

 

[OnceUponaTime]

Not to bring up abortion again but the Regeneron drug Trump was given was partially developed using embryonic cells.

The drug that Trump is now touting as a cure (honestly, this drug holds promise unlike Hydroxychloroquine).

How do pro-life conservatives feel about this:

Regeneron Position on Stem Cell Research

https://medium.com/@EclecticScience...nt-doesn-t-use-human-fetal-cells-21bc13ae4f1d

Insert from the above link:

Just to be clear, Regeneron has stated that no human stem cells, embryonic or otherwise, are used to make this product.

"This particular discovery program (REGN-COV2) did not involve human stem cells or ESCs."

Now to the science. I will admit some of the details are a little out of my grasp, but the work is fascinating.

Regeneron came up with the cocktail by using genetically engineered mice:

"To develop REGN-COV2, Regeneron scientists evaluated thousands of fully-human antibodies produced by the company's VelocImmune® mice, which have been genetically modified to have a human immune system, as well as antibodies identified from humans who have recovered from COVID-19."

You can click on the link for more information on this.

 

[FGG]

I'm sure I wasn't alone:

 

[Tanni]

I don't think learning about another religion should be seen as threatening -- a religious conviction should be freely held, and it can only be freely held if the child is allowed to learn about other religions as well.

The point is not to convert -- that is not the job of a school -- but to educate, so we can respect and live alongside each other.

I learnt about all the 'main' religions at school, including Islam, and I was taught them by a Christian teacher. None of it stopped me from being an Atheist, but it did teach me respect for all the religions, which is the point.

 

[FGG]

https://medium.com/@EclecticScience...nt-doesn-t-use-human-fetal-cells-21bc13ae4f1d

Insert from the above link:

Just to be clear, Regeneron has stated that no human stem cells, embryonic or otherwise, are used to make this product.

"This particular discovery program (REGN-COV2) did not involve human stem cells or ESCs."

Now to the science. I will admit some of the details are a little out of my grasp, but the work is fascinating.

Regeneron came up with the cocktail by using genetically engineered mice:

"To develop REGN-COV2, Regeneron scientists evaluated thousands of fully-human antibodies produced by the company's VelocImmune® mice, which have been genetically modified to have a human immune system, as well as antibodies identified from humans who have recovered from COVID-19."

You can click on the link for more information on this.

Technically correct for the COVID-19 monoclonals and polyclonals however the the research platform upon which it was built upon did. Which means it would not have ultimately been produced without that research foundation (which Regeneron themselves alluded to if you read my link).

But no, you are not directly injecting fetal cells or their products and I wasn't implying that. But the drug wouldn't exist without the preliminary research.

Your link tries to dance around this by saying they aren't used now in the final product.

 

[Born To Slay]

That study was done by WHO, who hates the U.S. I used to believe as you do, that other countries had better healthcare than we do. I voted for Obama twice and got stuck with the worst, most expensive healthcare in the world for the middle class: OBAMACARE.

WHO is a lying, communistic, organization that took many millions from the U.S. in aid. They consistently emphasized negative, totally prejudicial viewpoints about the United States healthcare system through reports that sounded legitimate. The have been doing this for many years. WHO eventually screwed us royally by trying to cover up the fact that their favorite country, China, who contributes a small fraction of what we did to WHO, did not disclose the truth about the spread of coronavirus and set us up for an infection rate that has taken the world by storm and broken the backs of every Western economy, and many non-Western ones as well. This is what they do.

Never will I ever support WHO, or vote for a Democrat, again in my life. If you have had good experiences with Obamacare, and actually believe the lies that they spread about the U.S. having the worst healthcare in the industrialized world, fine - I bought their BS hook, line and sinker, and regretted it after liar-in-chief Obama took away our private, state sponsored insurance and forced us to go on Obamacare, which was substandard to every health care plan I have ever had.

I will never vote Democrat again, under any circumstances. Obamacare was not the first thing the Democrats did that was hideous, but it was the final straw for me.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Obamacare. That said, I know plenty of people who have good insurance now because of the ACA and the polls suggest that the ACA is now supported by a majority of Americans. Meanwhile Trump has no plan at all on healthcare.

The ACA doesn't really have anything to do with single payer anyway. They're totally different concepts.

 

[Luman]

Pence treated Harris like a Lady. This was a very effective strategy, and there's an old saying about this which if you don't know already, I'd rather not say, lol.

 

[Luman]

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Obamacare. That said, I know plenty of people who have good insurance now because of the ACA and the polls suggest that the ACA is now supported by a majority of Americans. Meanwhile Trump has no plan at all on healthcare.

The ACA doesn't really have anything to do with single payer anyway. They're totally different concepts.

Do the "plenty of people" that you know on Obamacare, pay the full price themselves out of pocket, with no subsidy? If they do, and they're satisfied, I'm amazed. I've had a half dozen health care plans, one or two of them were private plans not through an employer. Obamacare was worse than any of them, and it was the most expensive. They were able to give it away to others by overcharging those, like myself, who were forced to pay the inflated price out of their own pockets. Democrats deserve another four years of Trump. He understands that people are getting screwed over by the Democrats, and I like that. The Dems have no conscience at all about what they do to others, to achieve what they want.

 

[all to gain]

I don't really see where is the freedom in the United States, where people are routinely spied on by governmental agencies, where landlords cannot choose their tenants and cannot collect rent due to eviction moratoriums...

In the US a person is pretty much free to bare arms, to marry whomever regardless of sexual orientation, is allowed to riot and protest about everything and anything, is allowed to criticize and make fun of the president to their heart's content without risk of reprisal, is allowed to sue someone else for doing next to nothing, is allowed to vote for a candidate of their choice and the long list continues. These are all real freedoms.

Much of the rest of the rest of the world doesn't have some or all of such freedoms...

 

[Juan]

Trump may be a fool, sometimes. Is anybody else much better? Would Billary have been better? I highly doubt it.

You don't even mention your own country, if it's so great why don't you tell us how wonderful they've done with COVID-19? They probably didn't have much to begin with, thanks to us being the ones that were given it first.

You cannot have an immediate "total lockdown" for a country the size of the United States. Plus our disease had already been introduced in Feb., or earlier, from European travelers who landed in NYC with the coronavirus, which they picked up from China. As NYC is one of the top cities in the world, the disease spread like wildfire here. Thanks China. We'll remember you for this.

The coronavirus spread without control in the US because Trump did not take the right measures to contain the pandemic.

 

[Juan]

In the US a person is pretty much free to bare arms, to marry whomever regardless of sexual orientation, is allowed to riot and protest about everything and anything, is allowed to criticize and make fun of the president to their heart's content without risk of reprisal, is allowed to sue someone else for doing next to nothing, is allowed to vote for a candidate of their choice and the long list continues. These are all real freedoms.

Much of the rest of the rest of the world doesn't have some or all of such freedoms...

All the developed world has those freedoms and many more. In Spain for instance we can choose our tenants, we don't have rent or eviction moratoriums. We are not subject to a ton of senseless regulations like in the US. When we buy property we are protected by a public system where notaries and land registrars verify the sale and purchase process. We have universal public healthcare.

Now the only danger we have to defend ourselves from is the American FAANG companies, who are preying on the world as a whole, not paying their taxes and are spying on us (like on US citizens by the way...)

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Obamacare was worse than any of them, and it was the most expensive. They were able to give it away to others by overcharging those, like myself, who were forced to pay the inflated price out of their own pockets.

I agree with you about Obamacare, as the middle can not afford it.

There has never been a President, Senator or Governor that cared about the middle class. Get severe tinnitus and hyperacusis (being middle class) where you can't leave your home. Try to get federal social security disability. Most likely it won't be easy and it may take years of replying. The poor can get welfare, food stamps, rent payments and government subsidized medical. Good for them, but the middle class with a home gets nothing.

Social Security only pays for the first 100+ days for nursing home care. If one spouse enters a nursing home and the other spouse stills live in their home, how long can this spouse afford to own the residence when payments are needed for the other spouse's nursing home costs. The poor are covered and good for them again.

 

[Juan]

The US, the country of freedom:

What happened to the rights of George Floyd?

 

[Luman]

The US, the country of freedom:

View attachment 40991

What happened to the rights of George Floyd?

The unions kept a bad cop on the force, that's what happened to the rights of George Floyd. Do you support taking the unions away from the police departments who have them, which comprises about 50% of the cops in America? That's the only way you're going to stop police violence of the magnitude of a George Floyd case. This will be very difficult, because all of the unions all stick together and consider themselves to be brothers and sisters of each other - and this includes the worst cops, who have a history of commuting acts of police brutality and getting away with it, thanks to their ironclad union contracts. Or, do you deny this and blame "society", in general, for these acts of brutality and sometimes murder?

 

[Born To Slay]

Do the "plenty of people" that you know on Obamacare, pay the full price themselves out of pocket, with no subsidy? If they do, and they're satisfied, I'm amazed. I've had a half dozen health care plans, one or two of them were private plans not through an employer. Obamacare was worse than any of them, and it was the most expensive. They were able to give it away to others by overcharging those, like myself, who were forced to pay the inflated price out of their own pockets. Democrats deserve another four years of Trump. He understands that people are getting screwed over by the Democrats, and I like that. The Dems have no conscience at all about what they do to others, to achieve what they want.

This is, with all due respect, a fundamental misunderstanding of how Obamacare works. The subsidies aren't paid for by charging you higher premiums. They're paid for with tax revenue like most other government expenditures.

That said, I'm sorry to hear you didn't qualify for a subsidy. I'm sure that's very frustrating. Under Joe Biden's plan, you would be eligible for a subsidy since, believe it or not, the Democrats understand that there some problems with the ACA the first go around that need to be fixed and one of those issues is the subsidies were skimpy or non existent for people like yourself.

Donald Trump meanwhile, has no replacement plan for Obamacare.

 

[Born To Slay]

I agree with you about Obamacare, as the middle can not afford it.

There has never been a President, Senator or Governor that cared about the middle class. Get severe tinnitus and hyperacusis (being middle class) where you can't leave your home. Try to get federal social security disability. Most likely it won't be easy and it may take years of replying. The poor can get welfare, food stamps, rent payments and government subsidized medical. Good for them, but the middle class with a home gets nothing.

Social Security only pays for the first 100+ days for nursing home care. If one spouse enters a nursing home and the other spouse stills live in their home, how long can this spouse afford to own the residence when payments are needed for the other spouse's nursing home costs. The poor are covered and good for them again.

I don't think getting on SSDI is hard for them because they're middle class, proving you are disabled for hard for anyone unfortunately.

Also, it should be noted that Joe Biden's healthcare plan is mainly aimed at the middle class. He's going to expand subsidies to them so they can get afford ACA plans.

 

[Born To Slay]

Pence treated Harris like a Lady. This was a very effective strategy, and there's an old saying about this which if you don't know already, I'd rather not say, lol.

I don't know but really want to. Can you say it anyway pls lol?