2020 US Presidential Election

I am not a statistic expert, you'd need Bill Bauer for that. It seems to me, when somebody 92 years old dies, and happens to have coronavirus, it's nearly impossible to say, "He/she died from coronavirus.", meaning that they would not have died if not for coronavirus. This causes all kinds of problems with the data, as to the rates of death from coronavirus.

We now have lower rates in NYC now than almost anywhere, and the numbers are changing.

https://nyulangone.org/news/study-helps-explain-declines-death-rates-covid-19
Just because someone is old doesn't really mean the autopsy didn't do their job right. I imagine during the autopsy they do find other stuff but if these are chronic conditions you've had for a while but you just happen to die when you have the virus and if you showed symptoms especially, it seems likely you had COVID-19.

And the low rates in New York are because we've been careful and following safety protocols. I hope your region or your state is safe enough to reopen soon.
 
Just because someone is old doesn't really mean the autopsy didn't do their job right. I imagine during the autopsy they do find other stuff but if these are chronic conditions you've had for a while but you just happen to die when you have the virus and if you showed symptoms especially, it seems likely you had COVID-19.

And the low rates in New York are because we've been careful and following safety protocols. I hope your region or your state is safe enough to reopen soon.
I am not claiming that the autopsy workers are not doing their job right. I believe that it is not rational to make this big a deal of of "keeping everybody safe", when the overwhelming majority of people, well over 90%, of people are not at risk of death or serious complications from this disease. About a third, are asymptomatic.

There is no reason for any areas of New York City to be closed down, even now. Our worst infeced areas have far lower infection rate numbers than many areas currently experiencing COVID-19, outside New York. Cuomo killed thousands by putting infected people in nursing homes, now he's continuing his insanity by locking down neighborhoods that have infection rates slightly higher than average for New York. This man makes Trump, at his very worst, look like a pillar of sanity.
 
And the low rates in New York are because we've been careful and following safety protocols. I hope your region or your state is safe enough to reopen soon.
In Europe, Germany, France, Italy, etc.. all the countries are implementing new restrictions and taking measures against COVID-19.

In the US, there's Donald Trump, and he did absolutely nothing to protect American citizens. Result: more than 230.000 Americans have already lost their lives to COVID-19.
 
In Europe, Germany, France, Italy, etc.. all the countries are implementing new restrictions and taking measures against COVID-19.

In the US, there's Donald Trump, and he did absolutely nothing to protect American citizens. Result: more than 230.000 Americans have already lost their lives to COVID-19.
The US isn't a full-on police state (yet?) like those European countries.
 
My religious zealot parent is praying that GOD and his angels guide Donald Trump and the Republican party to victory in 2020. She is on her knee's right now in front of a TV screen with Fox News covering the election praying for Trump to win.


This was my upbringing
 
The US isn't a full-on police state (yet?) like those European countries.
I think black people may differ on your opinion of the US not being a "full-on police state", and may have a different opinion on police brutality. What did Donald Trump do against it? Zero. Absolutely nothing, which is what he always does. He just looks away.
 
I think black people may differ on your opinion of the US not being a "full-on police state", and may have a different opinion on police brutality. What did Donald Trump do against it? Zero. Absolutely nothing, which is what he always does. He just looks away.
I agree he had many opportunities to condemn racism. In example people chanting "white power" at his rallies. He never did anything and just applied a no comment statement when asked about it.
 
I think black people may differ on your opinion of the US not being a "full-on police state", and may have a different opinion on police brutality. What did Donald Trump do against it? Zero. Absolutely nothing, which is what he always does. He just looks away.
What wonderful country do you live in, or are you afraid to say?
 
I think black people may differ on your opinion of the US not being a "full-on police state", and may have a different opinion on police brutality. What did Donald Trump do against it? Zero. Absolutely nothing, which is what he always does. He just looks away.
I'm probably more "all cops are bastards, defund the police" than most US posters here but I still think this is a little hyperbolic.

Oxford's definition of "police state":
A totalitarian state controlled by a political police force that secretly supervises the citizens' activities.

I think you can make a strong argument that the US has demonstrated a problematic slide towards totalitarianism, but the idea that we're all the way there is way off. We've had a a disturbing number of protestors shot, arrested or beaten by cops -- unprecedented perhaps since 1968. However, vastly more protestors are... still out there protesting. In a totalitarian regime, this would all have been crushed much more quickly.

Our cops, on the whole, are racist and brutal as fuck, but they are still well short of being an actual gestapo. There's a bunch of cops in jail for murder and other serious charges because of the last few months, that doesn't happen in a police state. Some police departments in major metro areas have had their budgets slashed astoundingly as a result of protest activity.

If direct action and protest is having any impact other than "all the protestors were rounded up and shot, and their families too" -- then you're not in a full on police state. And, since we don't want to end up there, I think it's good to keep that in mind.

Good to keep in mind, because we are still at a point where direct action matters. So people need to take more direct action while that's still true.

I am not a statistic expert, you'd need Bill Bauer for that. It seems to me, when somebody 92 years old dies, and happens to have coronavirus, it's nearly impossible to say, "He/she died from coronavirus."

If someone dies with their lungs full of glue as a result of the specific complications that COVID causes which causes lungs to fill with glue, I'd say they "died of COVID". Like, if I shoot someone in the face and they happen to be 92 years old, did they die of old age or because I shot them in the face?

This is very similar to climate change: there is vast scientific consensus, and the overall scientific consensus is that deaths are being undercounted. There is disagreement from financial sectors which are muddying the waters with economic policy documents masquerading as "science". In some cases faking large numbers of signatures, and often backed by Koch Bros money (see: AEIR COVID 'research').

The inability of the American public to accept the basic science behind this, wear masks, and accept that some kinds of businesses need to stay closed for longer term is why we have an administration talking about a "herd immunity" plan that can never work (because many of us will continue to wear n95s), and why we are completely torching the economy.

Basically, I think we killed the cow to get a little milk: if this had been handled differently with a comprehensive top down response, sacrificing some economic sectors in the interests of prohibiting totally unsafe behavior, then probably lots of the economy, including most schools, could be back to some kind of normal. As is, everything is just going to get completely fucked, because as of now: we're doing worse than we ever have been, we're adding 80,000 new covid cases a day, and rural hospitals are increasingly overwhelmed and have no beds. Fucked up.

I have no faith in the Trump administration to do much to help, and not too much more faith that an incoming Biden admin could or would implement actually useful changes fast enough. I think that until we have a vaccine, communities are mostly on their own -- for us, that means staying in the mountains, doing our own little halloween in the woods with one other family.
 
I'm probably more "all cops are bastards, defund the police" than most US posters here but I still think this is a little hyperbolic.

Oxford's definition of "police state":


I think you can make a strong argument that the US has demonstrated a problematic slide towards totalitarianism, but the idea that we're all the way there is way off. We've had a a disturbing number of protestors shot, arrested or beaten by cops -- unprecedented perhaps since 1968. However, vastly more protestors are... still out there protesting. In a totalitarian regime, this would all have been crushed much more quickly.

Our cops, on the whole, are racist and brutal as fuck, but they are still well short of being an actual gestapo. There's a bunch of cops in jail for murder and other serious charges because of the last few months, that doesn't happen in a police state. Some police departments in major metro areas have had their budgets slashed astoundingly as a result of protest activity.

If direct action and protest is having any impact other than "all the protestors were rounded up and shot, and their families too" -- then you're not in a full on police state. And, since we don't want to end up there, I think it's good to keep that in mind.

Good to keep in mind, because we are still at a point where direct action matters. So people need to take more direct action while that's still true.
As I have previously pointed out on this thread, there is nothing anybody can do about bad cops unless the police departments are able to fire them before they kill somebody unjustly. Slashing the budget only makes things worse. This is the fault of the unions, all of them except perhaps the few that have asked the AFL-CIO to kick the police unions out, which they, the AFL-CIO, refused to do.

The problem with brutal cops, some of whom kill, will never go away until the police unions are disbanded, and no politicians dares say this. Demonstrations are a waste of time, unless this issue is addressed correctly, and even BLM has shown itself to be unwilling to place the blame where it belongs, much less go against the unions. I am 100% certain that Malcolm X, were he alive today, would call BLM, "Chumps".
 
I think black people may differ on your opinion of the US not being a "full-on police state", and may have a different opinion on police brutality. What did Donald Trump do against it? Zero. Absolutely nothing, which is what he always does. He just looks away.
The blacks rioting and killing others including other blacks, you mean? Yeah, neither BLM nor the government, either Republicans nor Democrats, do anything about that?

Why not tell the truth? Why do you lie all the time?
 
I agree he had many opportunities to condemn racism. In example people chanting "white power" at his rallies. He never did anything and just applied a no comment statement when asked about it.
And BLM rioting? Blacks killing other blacks and also whites? Governments and other politicians do nothing and say nothing. Instead, you pathetic Americans whine about white supremacist boogeyman. You brainwashed ones should feel ashamed.
 
The US allows Antifa and BLM people to commit violence and the police do nothing. Why? Because most of the cops don't want to be the next vilified (probably white) cop on the news. If it's a black hoodlum or rioter, even worse.

Most of the mainstream media lies and their spin, angle or narrative is intended to illicit an emotional reaction especially from liberals. They easily fall for it. Of course, there's a lot of alpha, power tripper cops. The Type A personality etc., this isn't a mystery or surprise. Many have that but the problem is the lies and fabricating in which a part of the actual narrative is excluded or buried. Thus, you have division and friction because you have a portion of the population who sees through the lies and brainwashing.

Now, you have a lot of tension, anger and animosity. The division is a result of one group being duped and the other being vilified because of the conditioning/brainwashing the media and political groups are doing. I don't see anything changing or improving any time soon.
 
Wrong. He did a lot of things. You just don't like him.
Can you elaborate? Genuine question. Watching it through the prism of European media coverage, it's really hard not to think Donald Trump has been the worst president, bar none. It baffles me to this day how desensitized people have become to the bigotry and perpetual contradiction. I was standing on the barricades against the war in Iraq when I was 18. This guy makes George Bush Jr. look good in comparison.
 
The blacks rioting and killing others including other blacks, you mean? Yeah, neither BLM nor the government, either Republicans nor Democrats, do anything about that?

Why not tell the truth? Why do you lie all the time?
I am talking about police brutality, that Donald Trump has not addressed... he prefers to spend his time figuring out how to evade taxes.
 
I'm probably more "all cops are bastards, defund the police" than most US posters here but I still think this is a little hyperbolic.

Oxford's definition of "police state":


I think you can make a strong argument that the US has demonstrated a problematic slide towards totalitarianism, but the idea that we're all the way there is way off. We've had a a disturbing number of protestors shot, arrested or beaten by cops -- unprecedented perhaps since 1968. However, vastly more protestors are... still out there protesting. In a totalitarian regime, this would all have been crushed much more quickly.

Our cops, on the whole, are racist and brutal as fuck, but they are still well short of being an actual gestapo. There's a bunch of cops in jail for murder and other serious charges because of the last few months, that doesn't happen in a police state. Some police departments in major metro areas have had their budgets slashed astoundingly as a result of protest activity.

If direct action and protest is having any impact other than "all the protestors were rounded up and shot, and their families too" -- then you're not in a full on police state. And, since we don't want to end up there, I think it's good to keep that in mind.

Good to keep in mind, because we are still at a point where direct action matters. So people need to take more direct action while that's still true.



If someone dies with their lungs full of glue as a result of the specific complications that COVID causes which causes lungs to fill with glue, I'd say they "died of COVID". Like, if I shoot someone in the face and they happen to be 92 years old, did they die of old age or because I shot them in the face?

This is very similar to climate change: there is vast scientific consensus, and the overall scientific consensus is that deaths are being undercounted. There is disagreement from financial sectors which are muddying the waters with economic policy documents masquerading as "science". In some cases faking large numbers of signatures, and often backed by Koch Bros money (see: AEIR COVID 'research').

The inability of the American public to accept the basic science behind this, wear masks, and accept that some kinds of businesses need to stay closed for longer term is why we have an administration talking about a "herd immunity" plan that can never work (because many of us will continue to wear n95s), and why we are completely torching the economy.

Basically, I think we killed the cow to get a little milk: if this had been handled differently with a comprehensive top down response, sacrificing some economic sectors in the interests of prohibiting totally unsafe behavior, then probably lots of the economy, including most schools, could be back to some kind of normal. As is, everything is just going to get completely fucked, because as of now: we're doing worse than we ever have been, we're adding 80,000 new covid cases a day, and rural hospitals are increasingly overwhelmed and have no beds. Fucked up.

I have no faith in the Trump administration to do much to help, and not too much more faith that an incoming Biden admin could or would implement actually useful changes fast enough. I think that until we have a vaccine, communities are mostly on their own -- for us, that means staying in the mountains, doing our own little halloween in the woods with one other family.
Well, the discourse in the US is that it is the country of freedom. However, when one looks at police brutality, racism, generalised use of weapons etc... it's hard to believe there is much freedom.

In order to be free everyone should be treated equally, at least by the police, by the government, and the use of force by the government, implemented by the police.

When I consider Donald Trump, what I see is a person who divides, who attacks others, who is racist, who does not contribute... I cannot really say anything good about Donald Trump.
 
Can you elaborate? Genuine question. Watching it through the prism of European media coverage, it's really hard not to think Donald Trump has been the worst president, bar none. It baffles me to this day how desensitized people have become to the bigotry and perpetual contradiction. I was standing on the barricades against the war in Iraq when I was 18. This guy makes George Bush Jr. look good in comparison.
The problem is, you're only getting the anti-Trump leftist side of the news. If Trump was as bad as they tell you, why would he have so many supporters?

The charges of racism are ramped up and amplified due to a few bad cops who have been kept on the force, until they killed people unjustly. This is because the liberals will not put an end to the police unions that foster such behavior - and until they do, it will keep on happening. No politician, Democrat or Republican, would dare say this, because the unions will unite against them.

By continually telling Blacks that they cannot survive without programs meant to advance them, in order to win votes and create useless bureaucracies, the lying Democrat liberals are setting them up for failure. We have many generations of people living in poverty simply because they believe that no matter what they do or how hard they work, they're doomed to failure. Trump did more to reduce Black unemployment than any president in history, but CNN won't tell you that - they'd prefer to talk about a tiny group of suburban kids numbering less than 200, called the Proud Boys, as a threat to the country. It's a disgrace and I sincerely hope that Trump wins this election. But, with the stupidity and lies that are swallowed by the chumps that many have become, the winners will probably be Biden and the whore.
 
Biden and the whore.
I'm willing to entertain and tolerate opinions I find distasteful or factually wrong, but when someone resorts to simple, dated misogyny of a style that my grandfather would have used, it makes me think they're completely out to lunch and that I need to put them on ignore for my own sanity.
 
I'm willing to entertain and tolerate opinions I find distasteful or factually wrong, but when someone resorts to simple, dated misogyny of a style that my grandfather would have used, it makes me think they're completely out to lunch and that I need to put them on ignore for my own sanity.
If the shoe fits, it's ageless. She got to where she is, by selling her body for political appointments. If you prefer to ignore the truth, that's fine with me. She's accused Trump of being a racist, and her own running mate, Joe Biden, as well. She has locked people up for small amounts of weed, and laughed about it. I have no problem with calling her a whore and a pig. and if anybody would like to explain to me why she isn't a whore, for selling her body to a man twice her age, in exchange for political government jobs, I'd like to hear their opinions.
 
I'm willing to entertain and tolerate opinions I find distasteful or factually wrong, but when someone resorts to simple, dated misogyny of a style that my grandfather would have used, it makes me think they're completely out to lunch and that I need to put them on ignore for my own sanity.
Online misogyny gets really old. I always appreciate it when I see men also speak up against it.
 
I had to Google that word as I never hear it in everyday language. I doubt he is a "hater of women" but dislikes that particular one. Some may not like your frequent use of the f word. Sorry my noise is screaming in my left ear atm and makes me irritable. I think it's TMD but cannot be certain.
 
What exactly do you mean by "evading taxes and transferring the tax burden...."?

@Luman -- My understanding is that corporate taxes made up 50+% of all government revenues in the 1950's. Today, that number is apparently closer to 10%. I'm guessing that's just one (of many things) @Jaun might have been referring to. Not trying to say 50% is better than 10%. But it seems undeniable that the tax burden has been transferred from corporations to individuals in the past 60-70 years.
 
@Luman -- My understanding is that corporate taxes made up 50+% of all government revenues in the 1950's. Today, that number is apparently closer to 10%. I'm guessing that's just one (of many things) @Jaun might have been referring to. Not trying to say 50% is better than 10%. But it seems undeniable that the tax burden has been transferred from corporations to individuals in the past 60-70 years.
How much does Juan pay in taxes, percentage-wise? We do not know because he wisely chooses not to reveal where he lives. I strongly suspect that it's a much higher percentage than we in the USA pay. Of course, he's probably living in a country with Socialized medicine, so it's understandable. In America, we do not care if there's a small sector of extremely wealthy individuals who have control over some of the most successful corporations and investments, as long as we're able to work and live our dreams. Like many people who watch CNN overseas, Juan seems to be believe that there's a class system at work in America that should be eliminated. He probably would prefer a large government to take care of it's citizens, for a substantial price, of course, in taxes. In America, we have 50 governments, one for each state and as America is the birthplace of democracy, we are very self sufficient and independent minded, which seems to irk much of the rest of the world. The typical European is used to being coddled by a nanny state, and for some reason highly resents those who do not prefer it for themselves. I'd like to make a deal with them: We won't take away your socialized governments, but don't expect us to follow your system - we're not about socialism in America.
 
Watching it through the prism of European media coverage, it's really hard not to think Donald Trump has been the worst president, bar none.
The European media is probably like any left-wing outlet in the U.S. (i.e., CNN, MSBNC, NPR, NYT, etc.) or perhaps even worse, so it is understandable why people with only these options believe Trump is the worst president. These people have become brainwashed. Maybe there are no prominent "mainstream" conservative outlets in Europe? European "fringe" right-wing media (comprising of NeoNazi views, for example) is not comparable to mainstream outlets relied upon by most conservatives here such as Fox News and BreitBart. Maybe "fringe" right-wing media is the only conservative option in Europe? Or, the better question would be, is there an equivalent of Fox News or BreitBart in Europe?

Trump has said some bad things about Europe (calling Brussels a hellhole, for example), and he wants European nations to contribute more to international organizations. Europeans want the U.S. to fund these organizations but want to have ultimate say, and this does not sit well with Trump. I can understand why Europeans may be annoyed at his tweets, since his tweets draw a sharp contrast between cultures. So, I can see why Europeans feel bitterness towards him, and this spills out through the media.
 
I wonder what will happen to this thread after the election. Will we all still shit post our whacky ideas?
 

Log in or register to get the full forum benefits!

Register

Register on Tinnitus Talk for free!

Register Now