2020 US Presidential Election

Yes, I believe that's on the longterm agenda of most right-wing parties. Some want more local independence first (Basque, Flemish, Northern Italy...)

This is regulated by the EU, so they would have to leave the EU before being able to decide upon such a thing. It would obviously come with economical drawbacks. And frankly it's not very moral.

I had no idea there was such a thing as leftist pc programmes. Can't comment.

I don't get that impression.

Excess mortality is a good indicator. It's never going to be exact. You don't have to examine each single case via autopsy. It's likely there have been some people counted as COVID-19-casualties, but what does it all matter? We're talking thousands and thousands of deaths in every country, so excess mortality rates are as close an approximation as we can have.
The EU officials are appointed, not elected. It's corrupt. Go watch some Nigel Farage videos. You want to talk about morals?

Many leftist programmes are handouts and theft by corrupt politicians. They don't benefit the native population.

I don't know what your point is about mortality. I used to think healthcare in the European welfare states was better than Canada's. But, all of them have similar flaws and people suffer for it.

As for whatever your point is, how much have you researched covid? Probably not very much. The rate of mortality is low and mostly restricted to older people. There's also been many false positives and governments/health departments were recording covid reasons for deaths even if the actual deaths were something else. This has been documented but the msm mainly glosses over it. Another point, the main covid test, pcr test, was never meant for detecting viruses. In other words, it was never meant to be a diagnostic tool. I could go on but the governments and health agencies have been lying, misleading the public and manufacturing a twisted narrative. If you look at morals and ethics, they don't have any.
 
Why do you think I'd have you on ignore? I don't have anyone on ignore. I like to know what people have to say and what they think and believe. I don't particularly like places that are too one-sided or echo-chamber like.

Our beliefs are shaped by our life's experiences. If we could walk in another person's shoes then I'm sure our view of the world would change, and so would our inner narrative. We are all products of our environment and upbringing, and in this respect, it is often difficult to think objectively about a situation. We are creatures who are largely driven by passion and emotion more than knowledge and reason.

Do you think your view of the world would be the same if you grew up starving everyday in a third world country? Many of us here don't realise how privileged we really are, but we all have the right to an opinion.

I agree that the electoral system needs reforming. I think it's outdated and doesn't help or benefit society as much as it could. There has to be a better way. Also, reducing the influence of powerful lobbyists would be virtually impossible at this point, I think.
I suspect many people have me on ignore. Most don't like my opinion. I think the privilege accusation is old and done to death. It's just virtual signaling so you can feel better and join the trend. People often want to follow and join a group.

This place is very onesided. The group think is very apparent, at least, in the political section aka here. There's some variance but the main topics, COVID-19 and general US politics, is pretty one-sided for the most part.
 
Can you elaborate? Genuine question. Watching it through the prism of European media coverage, it's really hard not to think Donald Trump has been the worst president, bar none. It baffles me to this day how desensitized people have become to the bigotry and perpetual contradiction. I was standing on the barricades against the war in Iraq when I was 18. This guy makes George Bush Jr. look good in comparison.
Donald Trump deserves a second term
 
Hello, Daniel, can you tell me why you clicked 'friendly?'

@Daniel Lion

Am I supposed to know why or what you mean?
Hi PeteJ, hope you are keeping well, I know your tinnitus is oppressive.

If I clicked friendly on your post, I intended to use the app as it was designed... to say friendly!

When I say take care PeteJ, "Take care PeteJ", I am being completely sincere.
Take care brother, political drama and discourse is the least of our problems, but it is engaging for all of us who are vested in these issues on and off of this thread.
 
I'm hoping the thread will keep going, it's really become more of a general American politics discussion then one devoted specifically to the election.
It's been interesting for sure. I'm probably going to hop off this thread after the election for various reasons but it was a learning experience for me and I am glad you started the thread.
 
I suspect many people have me on ignore. Most don't like my opinion. I think the privilege accusation is old and done to death. It's just virtual signaling so you can feel better and join the trend. People often want to follow and join a group.

This place is very onesided. The group think is very apparent, at least, in the political section aka here. There's some variance but the main topics, COVID-19 and general US politics, is pretty one-sided for the most part.

I understand how you feel. There have been times where it seemed like the vast majority of the site were against opinions I've had, but it is what it is. When I said privilege, in the context of what I said, think about it more deeply. There is no way you'd be the same person if you had grown up starving, having to drink filthy water, whilst militants roamed around in cars killing and raping people around you. Your view of the world would be vastly different. Just like it would if you grew up in a mansion with rich parents and everything you could ever dream for.

I do not like the binary system of left and right in politics. I'm neither left wing or right wing. There are areas of both that fit my beliefs and that's the point I'm trying to make. I feel my views are more balanced. I think far left views are just as bad as far right views, for example. Extremes are never usually a good thing in any aspect.

Try not to get so angry when debating politics as it's just wasted energy and it certainly won't make you feel any better.
 
I dislike people using low-effort gendered insults against women. Especially when we're talking about a woman who cut her teeth as a vicious federal prosecutor who did a substantial number of documented things which directly hurt low income people and minorities. So, there's about fifteen really good, cutting insults I can think of that actually attack the character of Harris; this person opted for the suuuuuper low effort "attack her with a gendered insult that has no basis in reality, because she's a woman and that's easier than thinking critically and attacking her on her record".......
I will, generally, disengage from people who repeatedly fall back on non-factual talking points, or only know how to insult their detractors and political rivals in terms of gendered, nonfactual or other wise "obviously wrong" ideas..........
There is a scene in Roxanne where a low-intelligence person insults Steve Martin by calling him "Big Nose", and Martin's response is "Big Nose? That's the best you can do?!" -- he then proceeds to give off a list of 20 self-effacing insults which are much more cutting, and, well, on the nose than "Big Nose"....................................................................
That's what "Biden and the Whore" makes me think -- this is a tremendously lazy way to squander a perfectly acceptable place to
etc etc. Attack people on their record and actions, fine, even if I don't agree. Attack someone on their gender? Lazy, and implies a lack of a cogent argument. Especially since I know luman hates police unions and crooked cops -- there was a ton of ground here to say something slightly meaningful and not just advertise "Hey, I am someone who calls women I don't like whores for no other reason than it's a male power word". That's something my shitty great grandpa woulda done, thank god he's dead!
;)
I have already brought up everything you mentioned about Harris, in this thread, and more. She was elected "Porker of the Year" in 2018, for policies which, along with her record as a prosecutor would easily justify the term "pig" as a descriptive word for her. If this isn't enough, she had parents arrested because their children played hookey, locked a man up for five dollars worth of marijuana, did not properly handle police brutality cases, and more.

She obtained not one, but two, lucrative government jobs thanks to becoming the mistress of West Coast Democratic Power Broker Willie Brown, a man twice her age who is four years older than her father. If Harris had been a normal prostitute, taking money for sexual favors, I would not refer to her despairingly. He (Brown) bought her a BMW, but that isn't important. The main thing that irks me is that, rather than earn these taxpayer funded positions by merit, she literally prostituted herself. If this is biased against her gender, then so be it. I can't stand Hillary, but I never called her a whore. I have called Elizabeth Warren, "Pocahontas", a moniker which Trump dubbed her as, due to her deliberate lying, for some 30 years, about being an Indian, in order to obtain favoritism. But, I never called Warren a whore because there was no reason for it. She has been dishonest, and way too stupid to be president or even VP, but she has not literally prostituted herself, as Harris did. Due to Biden's age, Harris stands a better-than-average chance of becoming president, if she should become VP. Is she the role model for minority girls, that Biden touted her as, the best the Democratic party can come up with as a potential VP and possibly the first female president of the United States of America? If this is the case, and Harris is the best they can do, then I cannot in good conscience vote Democrat in this election of 2020.
 

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Trump falsely tells Michigan rally: "Our doctors make more money if someone dies from COVID"

Donald Trump has attacked the doctors who have been treating coronavirus patients on the frontline of the pandemic.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...get-more-money-if-someone-dies-of-covid-video

---------------------------

That's a good portrait of Trump: such a disgusting LIAR.
Not entirely untrue and it doesn't mean he's lying, necessarily. From his p.o.v. and what he has read or has been told, it can appear that they get paid more or receive more funding.

Fact check: Hospitals get paid more if patients listed as COVID-19, on ventilators

COVID-19: Some Hospitals Are Making Money With Deaths

UPDATED Coronavirus tracker: HHS watchdog plans to investigate CARES Act funding to providers
 
Not only does Trump divide the country, he is dividing us as well. I was proud to be an American until Trump. I so desparately want to be proud again.
 
Trump falsely tells Michigan rally: "Our doctors make more money if someone dies from COVID"

Donald Trump has attacked the doctors who have been treating coronavirus patients on the frontline of the pandemic.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...get-more-money-if-someone-dies-of-covid-video

---------------------------

That's a good portrait of Trump: such a disgusting LIAR.
I am going to explain why I selected "funny" so there's no misunderstanding. Like there was with another poster. I picked it not based on the author's tinnitus or health condition but because of my personal reaction to the political perspective. My reasoning is that I don't think that the author and posters agreeing researched at all. They reacted emotionally with their bias.

I don't like Trump and I think both candidates are puppets so I am not objecting because I am a "Trumpster." I know politicians lie but I wondered why he might come up with this claim, if there's anything to it. So I researched.

But, a few posters who just click "agree" on anything because of their bias apparently DID NOT.
 
Not only does Trump divide the country, he is dividing us as well. I was proud to be an American until Trump. I so desparately want to be proud again.
Gotta feel sorry for the Republicans. Nowadays the people on the left seem to get mad when people decide to vote for Donald Trump or Republicans.

I don't think the Democrats and left wing have the right to judge people on the right wing or those who vote for Republican or Donald Trump vice versa. That's the whole point of democracy where we may have different political beliefs. No one deserves to be judged or get cancelled due to cancel culture because of a different political belief.
 
That's the whole point of democracy where we may have different political beliefs.
Donald Trump doesn't believe in democracy. That is the exact reason why everyone is mad. Why else do Republicans hate high voter turn out? Wouldn't a party who loves democracy love more votes?

The truth about the left is that most people have given Republicans the benefit of the doubt for years and years. There reaches a point where you have to be unconfident to have someone who wants to "own you" and feel sorry for the abuser.
 
Donald Trump doesn't believe in democracy. That is the exact reason why everyone is mad. Why else do Republicans hate high voter turn out? Wouldn't a party who loves democracy love more votes?

The truth about the left is that most people have given Republicans the benefit of the doubt for years and years. There reaches a point where you have to be unconfident to have someone who wants to "own you" and feel sorry for the abuser.
I understand your point of view. Republicans are viewed as mainly conservative, especially socially conservative. They cop a lot of shit due to their negative views in abortion and LGBTQ rights and that's why Democrats and left wing get mad when people vote Republicans.

I do hope in the distant future Republicans can continue to be fiscally conservative but become more liberal in social issues. I think most people nowadays who are Republican are leaning more liberal in social issues but still fiscally conservative. But anyone that decides to vote for Republican or Donald Trump should not be judged and get cancelled due to cancel culture for having different political beliefs.
 
But anyone that decides to vote for Republican or Donald Trump should not be judged
People get judged all the time. Liberals get judged to the point of being a avocado-toast-eating snowflakes. It's not reasonable to expect to vote for someone and not be judged -- especially for Donald Trump. He's too polarizing.

To be honest, I may have said this before, but my theoretical viewpoints are not that liberal. Certainly I lean left, but only in the presence of hardcore Republicans do I look like the quintessential liberal. The reason why I vote Democrat is because, in my view, there are more kind-of loony Trump supporters than kind-of loony Biden voters. The very extremes are unacceptable on both sides, but Trump has brought in an era of enabling ordinary Republicans to become conspiracy theorists.

The Trump-iteration of the Republican party is simply irredeemable, calloused, irresponsible, greedy, hypocritical.

The Republican party is not fiscally conservative at all. They love spending. Trump has ballooned the deficit, all so his rich friends make out big.

In short, conservatives aren't even fiscally conservative, and they hold social viewpoints that are deeply outdated. They just want power, not to help anyone.
 
People get judged all the time. Liberals get judged to the point of being a avocado-toast-eating snowflakes. It's not reasonable to expect to vote for someone and not be judged -- especially for Donald Trump. He's too polarizing.

To be honest, I may have said this before, but my theoretical viewpoints are not that liberal. Certainly I lean left, but only in the presence of hardcore Republicans do I look like the quintessential liberal. The reason why I vote Democrat is because, in my view, there are more kind-of loony Trump supporters than kind-of loony Biden voters. The very extremes are unacceptable on both sides, but Trump has brought in an era of enabling ordinary Republicans to become conspiracy theorists.

The Trump-iteration of the Republican party is simply irredeemable, calloused, irresponsible, greedy, hypocritical.

The Republican party is not fiscally conservative at all. They love spending. Trump has ballooned the deficit, all so his rich friends make out big.

In short, conservatives aren't even fiscally conservative, and they hold social viewpoints that are deeply outdated. They just want power, not to help anyone.
I do agree with your point of view that having extremes on both left and right is bad.

I'm just saying that those who voted for Donald Trump may not be voting for him because of his character but rather voting for him because of the policies he has implemented that seem beneficial to certain people.

This is why I don't agree with the left judging people for voting Donald Trump as he may have implemented policies to benefit certain people and people that vote for him don't really care about his behavour as long as he has implemented policies that are beneficial to people.
 
anyone that decides to vote for Republican or Donald Trump should not be judged
Agreed except for the "Donald Trump" part. For me, and I'm sure for pretty many as well, this election is not about Democrats vs Republicans. All I see in Trump is someone who did, and will continue to do, many hurtful things to mankind, to which there is nothing else he could have done right to outweigh. It's hard to not judge people who doesn't want this tragedy to stop in favor of his/her own personal interest.
 
I do agree with your point of view that having extremes on both left and right is bad.

I'm just saying that those who voted for Donald Trump may not be voting for him because of his character but rather voting for him because of the policies he has implemented that seem beneficial to certain people.

This is why I don't agree with the left judging people for voting Donald Trump as he may have implemented policies to benefit certain people and people that vote for him don't really care about his behavour as long as he has implemented policies that are beneficial to people.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on Trump's policies and direction being positive for the average American.

But to respond to your very general idea that someone can vote for someone and not like them personally, I agree. However, there is a line. The president doesn't have to be my idol (Joe Biden is certainly not mine), but they can't be like, the most repugnant human being in the country, who gets off on dividing people in a democracy.

It's nice to believe that "focus on the policy" only. But in reality, rhetoric -- when nasty and divisive enough -- can destroy democracies. It is a fact that Americans hate each other more after Trump got involved in politics. This isn't all his doing, but he hasn't tried to de-escalate it.
 
There may be quite a few Trump supporters who don't want to admit it because of the backlash they get. Look at some of his rallies and the big crowds he attracts, even in very cold temperatures. Lot of backlash even on this thread as most posters are anti-Trump. It would be a bit boring if we all thought the same though.
 
There may be quite a few Trump supporters who don't want to admit it because of the backlash they get. Look at some of his rallies and the big crowds he attracts, even in very cold temperatures. Lot of backlash even on this thread as most posters are anti-Trump. It would be a bit boring if we all thought the same though.
Agree. If people don't want to vote for Trump then why are there so many people at his rallies compared to Biden. It's a shame the left want to judge and cancel people for voting for Republicans and Trump. I know for a fact many people don't want to vote for Trump due to his character but if many people are turning up to his rallies then he must have done something right to make people turn up and vote for him.
 
There may be quite a few Trump supporters who don't want to admit it because of the backlash they get. Look at some of his rallies and the big crowds he attracts, even in very cold temperatures. Lot of backlash even on this thread as most posters are anti-Trump. It would be a bit boring if we all thought the same though.
Well, it's really hard to be a die-hard Biden supporter. Most people voting for Biden are just tired of the divisiveness and total lack of taking the job seriously.

Trump definitely is better at bringing in die-hard supporters. His personality is so polarizing. It's kind of hard to hate or love Biden.
 
Agree. If people don't want to vote for Trump then why are there so many people at his rallies compared to Biden. It's a shame the left want to judge and cancel people for voting for Republicans and Trump. I know for a fact many people don't want to vote for Trump due to his character but if many people are turning up to his rallies then he must have done something right to make people turn up and vote for him.
Biden doesn't inspire rallies because let's face it, few people are voting *for* Biden but rather voting against Trump. A named anti Trump rally would have an absolutely enormous attendance in the US.

The fact that half the country is voting for a mediocre candidate just because he isn't Trump is more telling imo than the fact that Trump has big rallies.
 
His personality is so polarizing.
I can see his polarizing effect when he mentions Barack Hussein Obama. Some are cringing and others are laughing. I believe Obama lashed out back at him but I haven't viewed it yet. The fake news are so hard on Trump.
 
More African-Americans and Hispanics are expected to vote for Trump now than in 2016. This is a problem for Democrats because Biden is meanwhile facing challenges with minority turnout. I also believe many people aged 18-22 will vote for Trump because they want to go back to school, party, etc. (I heard this on the radio). Trump is against socialism/anti-Americanism, in that sense he is divisive if you have those views. However, many people agree with Trump so he is uniting people who share his views. There is no way to unite/reconcile extreme liberal with conservative views, unless one surrenders to the other, so there will always be some divisiveness.

Shifting alliances and new coalitions: Why Trump's path to victory runs through Miami

Nolte: Poll Shows Black Support for Trump at 31 Percent

Iowa Poll: Donald Trump takes over lead in Iowa as Joe Biden fades

I do think the country is more divided, to the point where pro-Trump and anti-Trump people cannot be friends. I do not think this has happened before, and I can see why people are afraid of potential war. However, I do not hold Trump responsible for this really. He has made some controversial statements but there is an element of truth in what he says. Conservatives recognize his statements as elements of truth, whereas liberals exaggerate his statements (Trump did not say that ALL Mexicans are rapists, or that ALL Muslims are part of ISIS, but these are the rumors that the liberals spread). Basically, the only thing Trump has done is to proudly say what conservatives generally already believe, which is different from other conservative politicians who are basically RINOs. People are essentially more upset with their neighbors who vote the other way, than with Trump (but the violence is almost always done by the left with BLM and Antifa, on the right).
 
Thoughts on Trump leaving his supporters behind after rallies? (Aplogies if it's been previously discussed.)
 
Biden doesn't inspire rallies because let's face it, few people are voting *for* Biden but rather voting against Trump. A named anti Trump rally would have an absolutely enormous attendance in the US.

The fact that half the country is voting for a mediocre candidate just because he isn't Trump is more telling imo than the fact that Trump has big rallies.
The media hates Trump, and he feels the same way about them but unlike 99% of politicians, he'll say it.
 
I am going to explain why I selected "funny" so there's no misunderstanding. Like there was with another poster. I picked it not based on the author's tinnitus or health condition but because of my personal reaction to the political perspective. My reasoning is that I don't think that the author and posters agreeing researched at all. They reacted emotionally with their bias.

I don't like Trump and I think both candidates are puppets so I am not objecting because I am a "Trumpster." I know politicians lie but I wondered why he might come up with this claim, if there's anything to it. So I researched.

But, a few posters who just click "agree" on anything because of their bias apparently DID NOT.
I just find appalling and disgusting that Trump is knowingly lying about doctors who have risked their lives to help and treat COVID-19 patients.
 

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