2020 US Presidential Election

[Zugzug]

I have an exercise for conservatives:

The NBA went all out BLM/social justice during the past season while playing in the bubble in Orlando. Their ratings plummeted drastically. The NBA Finals saw a 48% viewership drop. I happen to like the NBA so this example fits well.

Next time you are around your pro Trump friends, say "It's unfair that the NBA is losing revenue. Instead of going to the shooting range today (sorry for the stereotype, I have nothing against this hobby), let's force ourselves to sit down and watch this because we don't believe in boycotts. I hate all of the social justice stuff, but we have to do it."

Sounds ridiculous, because it is, and likely one of the reasons these people were attracted to libertarianism in the first place. Making someone spend their money a certain way is the opposite of conservative ideology. Please just be consistent. If you discover, like many on the left have, that free markets are flawed, then you can join us in demanding more anti-discrimination protections.

 

[Contrast]

I hope this thread gets locked after the election.

 

[GlennS]

Sorry, but I saw this earlier and figured I should put it on here
View attachment 41403

Maybe Stormy Daniels can give him pointers on technique.

This video will give you a different perspective for the reasons why people have voted for Trump.

He's not as smart as he thinks he is. He got taken to the cleaners by his wife.

the liberal base understands that Biden is ultimately a useful idiot who's disposable.

In what way is Biden a useful idiot? He's a middle of the road career politician.

I would actually say the reverse, that Trump made the Republican party useful idiots instead of the other way around. He OWNED them. They never wanted Trump to get the nomination. Only AFTER did they sacrifice their integrity and kiss the ring. They've just been play-acting their loyalty for so long that I think many have internalized it ala Stockholm syndrome. I'm not so sure the party will abandon him quite so quickly, not without an heir apparent to take his place.

I do think it's telling that the Democrats were willing to shift to the right with Biden (and Hillary before, who was, let's face it, to the right of Bernie) but the right is never able to filter out its more polarizing figures in the nomination process. I would say the Democrats are far more willing to meet the right half-way than the other way around. So you can say what you want about what the Democratic base wants to do but they are willing to compromise far more than the right. Biden may be boring but he is less polarizing than Bernie. Just the difference in more centrist and independent voters alone probably made the election right there. I just think it's lazy and cynical thinking to merely throw your hands up and equate the strategies of both parties. Do I think there is an extremist problem within the left? ABSOLUTELY!!! But I think there is far more willingness to contain that than on the right. If Biden was equivalent to GOP candidates he would have been openly calling for the abolishment of the police, etc... He didn't do that even though, of course, strawman arguments attempted to paint him in that light. He will surely institute policies that will trigger the right, but he will not go as far as some on the left want, and that's ultimately better for the country than to have so much of a tug of war going on. There is already too much dueling executive orders as it is.

 

[Born To Slay]

I hope this thread gets locked after the election.

The Senate is not going to be called until January, so we're not even close to the end of this election season.

 

[GlennS]

BTW, there will be memes. Oh, there will be lots of memes.

I see Trump's butthurt reaction being akin to this:

 

[Zugzug]

I hope this thread gets locked after the election.

I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, but I find this surprising, as you strike me as a free speech absolutist. Don't get me wrong, I see the downside of this thread, and it may be in the interest of many of us (including me) to improve our mental health by leaving it. But I see no great reason why it should be shut down. Maybe, like the suicidal thread, it should be given the option to "ignore its content" while still existing.

Everyone makes a choice when they participate in this thread. I made the decision that Trump is so against what I stand for that if someone on the forum wants to dislike me for it, I accept it. Anyone who picks empathy for Trump over empathy for a disabled person -- who actually gives a damn about their suffering -- is probably not great friendship material.

If instead, Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio was the incumbent, I probably would have made a different decision, as I have no interest in losing support on here because of a simple disagreement in political philosophy.

 

[PeteJ]

I feel kind of bad for us. If one develops messed up viewpoints, a medical problem is a really bad thing in regards to character change. Say my viewpoints are horrific (I don't think so, but some do). How can I develop the discipline to change? Just crawling onto the computer and pressing keys is a challenge. Being honest about this stuff takes will power, and some of us are spending all of it on not killing ourselves.

Both you and GBB are pathetic.

 

[PeteJ]

This is where Trump supporters lose me. Why is it like a requirement to either implicitly or explicitly defend Donald Trump's character? What you are basically saying, which by the way is similar to your previous posts about how unfair it is that Democrats choose who to buy from, is that it's unthinkable that loads of people could simply view Trump as a toxic human being. The guy is a racist, con man, cheat, liar. Everyone who leaves his administration says he's batshit crazy. He's self-centered. He comes at people like LeBron James and Kaepernick on twitter. Did you ever consider that maybe they just genuinely don't like him? Like is that possible at all? That he doesn't deserve to be liked because he acts like a petulant child and gets constantly enabled?

Conservatism isn't for me, but I can definitely wrap my head around someone voting Republican (and Trump happens to be on the ticket). For example, if I was a police officer or a diehard 2A supporter or a coal worker, etc.

What you will find, as evident in this thread, is that very few people who cast a vote for him truly understand how corrupt and immoral Trump is. They always defend him.

You also said you would choose racist Trump over creepy Joe. Trump is the king of creepy. He has many credible sexual assault allegations. He was closely acquainted with Epstein. He has rape allegations.

If all that matters is policy and viewpoints, why defend him? Obviously, it's because these people know that deep down, the most powerful person in the world should be at least semi-respectable. They have to reconcile this, so they just exaggerate Biden and minimize Trump.

You hypocrites defend Biden in every post. China, Ukraine etc. doesn't matter... he doesn't touch girls no...

It took decades until you conceded Clinton wasn't a good guy. Lol.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I will let you judge this video.

Your video above is just one of many. Is there any moral differences between Biden and Trump, none - in my opinion.

High tech stocks are going thru the roof again today and most of their investors are rich Democrats who could care less about the herd - you and me. Foreigners want the US dollar to drop and it's doing just that.

 

[PeteJ]

I thought this video might be interesting to you who are against people for voting for Republicans and Trump.

This video will give you a different perspective for the reasons why people have voted for Trump. You have to remember before the Election all the left-wing news companies have stated this was going to be a landslide victory to Biden and look at how it turned out, basically both candidates are 50 50.

Both sides don't have a right to call each other stupid for voting for either Biden or Trump when the vote is practically split 50 50. I've seen a lot of Democrats and the left calling Republican voters dumb and trying to cancel them because they voted for Trump. This is what I call intimidation by the Democratic supporters by trying to force Republicans to vote for Biden and if they don't vote for Biden they end up getting cancelled and losing their jobs because of different political beliefs.

An Ex-Google employee called TechLead has mentioned some valuable points on why he decided to vote for Trump. Feel free to have an open discussion with me after you're done.

I disagree. I will call people stupid for voting for either one thinking it will make a difference.

But, the worst part is the arguments and rationalizations that people make here.

 

[PeteJ]

The accusations of fraud are treated as amusing by liberals and Twitter censors anyone bringing it up even when the President does. That tells a lot about a society.

I hope Biden's administration improves the health support and disability system there. Maybe one positive thing can come from it.

 

[TeeOh]

Trump is an imbecile, but he's actually been the best president for speeding up the collapse of US Imperialism.

This includes his failures in his foreign policy, destroying America's reputation and the way he handled the pandemic and riots while in a recession was one huge disaster movie.

It doesn't even stop there because right now he's stoking more division and his supporters look like they want to start a civil war for him. This is like an accelerationist wet dream

People in China actually have a nickname for him meaning nation builder lol.

 

[Juan]

Trump is an imbecile, but he's actually been the best president for speeding up the collapse of US Imperialism.

His failures in his foreign policy and the way he handled the pandemic and riots while in a recession was one huge disaster movie.

It doesn't even stop there because right now he's stoking more division and his supporters look like they want to start a civil war for him. This is like an accelerationist wet dream

People in China actually have a nickname for him meaning nation builder lol.

I think all the wrong decisions Trump made are going to unravel in the next few years. This happens often in politics: someone creates a bubble and when it bursts the guy who is responsible for it is gone, and someone else is left to deal with the consequences.

 

[linearb]

I think all the wrong decisions Trump made are going to unravel in the next few years. This happens often in politics: someone creates a bubble and when it bursts the guy who is responsible for it is gone, and someone else is left to deal with the consequences.

Eh, we have a 6-3 SCOTUS long term, packed federal courts. There's a lot of stuff that's been ripped up that can't just be taped back together.

That's not going to be easy to unwind; what's going to happen is that we're going to have a regressive federal judiciary that is increasingly at odds with a growingly diverse and progressive electorate. There's a lot of ways that could play out, from actual balkanization of some kind as the sun slowly sets on American hegemony, to an extended period of civil unrest of one kind or another, to, I suppose, some truly uniting figure emerging and finding a way to bridge the divide.

I think the results of this election make it pretty clear that there's basically a cold civil war happening, between the largely blue economic engines of the country, and the big red spaces in between which are increasingly depressed and economically irrelevant as the US fully becomes a knowledge economy.

I'm glad to live someplace that's not particularly polarized; the most polarized parts of the country seem legitimately frightening to me now.

 

[PeteJ]

I have an exercise for conservatives:

The NBA went all out BLM/social justice during the past season while playing in the bubble in Orlando. Their ratings plummeted drastically. The NBA Finals saw a 48% viewership drop. I happen to like the NBA so this example fits well.

Next time you are around your pro Trump friends, say "It's unfair that the NBA is losing revenue. Instead of going to the shooting range today (sorry for the stereotype, I have nothing against this hobby), let's force ourselves to sit down and watch this because we don't believe in boycotts. I hate all of the social justice stuff, but we have to do it."

Sounds ridiculous, because it is, and likely one of the reasons these people were attracted to libertarianism in the first place. Making someone spend their money a certain way is the opposite of conservative ideology. Please just be consistent. If you discover, like many on the left have, that free markets are flawed, then you can join us in demanding more anti-discrimination protections.

Your lame lecturing and virtue signaling is tiresome. Maybe not for anyone else. I don't think I am conservative by your definition but you are assuming you know how others (who you disagree with) think and reason.

I could care less about the NBA but I am glad they are losing money. That's nice to hear.

A multi-billion dollar business that has made money hand over foot enriching blacks who have no other skills other than slamming a ball through a hoop and then lecturing an entire country while vilifying ordinary whites seems like a big joke to me.

They also intimidate people to follow like sheep lest they are white supremacists. What if an athlete doesn't want to conform in their politics? It's a follow us or else proposition. The corporations that rely on whites who make up the most of their customer base are vilifying that same base. When are all these groups going to address the criminals, the gangs and crime/conflict that leads to confrontations with police? That's a rhetorical question. The answer is never. This status quo message and utilitisation of radical left organizations and individuals because corporations are too cowardy (to upset potential liberal customers) plus too afraid of boycotts, boycott threats and whiney liberals protesting will continue with a Democrat administration.

 

[GlennS]

I think the results of this election make it pretty clear that there's basically a cold civil war happening, between the largely blue economic engines of the country, and the big red spaces in between which are increasingly depressed and economically irrelevant as the US fully becomes a knowledge economy.

I would agree with the broad strokes of that. A large part of the US population is effectively unskilled dead-weight in an increasingly IT-driven and automated economy. The problem is... there's no turning back. You can't bring back the 1950s. It's already well into the 21st century. One way or another society has to remake itself to cope with these changes. The funny thing here is that red staters should probably be the first to accept socialism (i.e. basic income) rather than to keep thinking that trade wars and strict immigration policy can bring back the good old days.

 

[Zugzug]

I would agree with the broad strokes of that. A large part of the US population is effectively unskilled dead-weight in an increasingly IT-driven and automated economy. The problem is... there's no turning back. You can't bring back the 1950s. It's already well into the 21st century. One way or another society has to remake itself to cope with these changes. The funny thing here is that red staters should probably be the first to accept socialism (i.e. basic income) rather than to keep thinking that trade wars and strict immigration policy can bring back the good old days.

I agree. I have no desire to ditch red states. People from these states are part of the United States; they consist of smart and hard working people like anywhere else. There are plenty of geniuses from red states and morons from blue states.

I don't say this to sound enable elitism, but it's a fact that coastal areas generate more GDP. This doesn't mean they're better, smarter, or more deserving. It's just a fact. And what's heartbreaking is that the liberals from this area see this reality and feel bad about it. They want a more fair economy that includes everyone.

Sadly, the Trump supporters, who are otherwise good people, let pride turn this reality into this weird jealousy. There's nothing to be jealous about. Times are just changing. For the sake of the country, I really hope Biden and congress put in serious effort to transition people who have outdated jobs and are stuck. They may have families to feed and cannot just change careers. This reality is quite sad, but they need proper training to transition.

 

[Born To Slay]

I would agree with the broad strokes of that. A large part of the US population is effectively unskilled dead-weight in an increasingly IT-driven and automated economy. The problem is... there's no turning back. You can't bring back the 1950s. It's already well into the 21st century. One way or another society has to remake itself to cope with these changes. The funny thing here is that red staters should probably be the first to accept socialism (i.e. basic income) rather than to keep thinking that trade wars and strict immigration policy can bring back the good old days.

I agree with this to a large extent but there are trade policies we could implement to get some jobs back to the US. And if we could finally get serious about green energy we could patent that stuff and have it almost exclusively made in the US.

 

[GlennS]

Made in the US--by robots. Think of Tesla. The only reason robots don't make everything end-to-end is they weren't able to perfect it yet--but they aren't done trying.

 

[GlennS]

Sadly, the Trump supporters, who are otherwise good people, let pride turn this reality into this weird jealousy.

My feeling is that anti-intellectualism is a maladaptive dead-end. Think Idiocracy. It's a demographic fact that Trump supporters are a bell-curve very firmly centered around non-college-educated white males. As far as shaping public policy goes, democracy works best with a smarter voting demographic. A little elitism might be a good thing than to, let's say, try in vein to "bring back coal" with the polar ice caps melting or sticking Fauci's head on a pike and rushing headlong into a million plus dead in the interests of herd immunity. You see what I mean? I'm all for representative government but dumb people are apt to vote for policies that actually make their lot in life WORSE. And that's not even factoring in the fact that dumb people are so easily manipulated (hence my NPC image from before). Give them a few cheap one-liners like "sleepy joe" and "lock'er up" and they just march down the street like freakin' wind-up dolls repeating them ad nauseum. NO CAPACITY for independent thought. Just unrestrained Dunning-Kruger.

or worse

The problems we're facing in the 21st century are vastly different from those of the 18th when this country was formed. They are macro-level existential crises that demand that people think beyond blue laws and cow paths. The average person seems to be incapable of grasping the data well enough to be able to formulate a workable policy. Instead they fall back on the brain-stem. Tribal affiliation and short-term self-interest.

So yeah, count every vote because that's how this country was formed but frankly I would prefer that we institute some sort of minimum SAT style test before people were allowed to vote.

 

[Zugzug]

My feeling is that anti-intellectualism is a maladaptive dead-end. Think Idiocracy. It's a demographic fact that Trump supporters are a bell-curve very firmly centered around non-college-educated white males. As far as shaping public policy goes, democracy works best with a smarter voting demographic. A little elitism might be a good thing than to, let's say, try in vein to "bring back coal" with the polar ice caps melting or sticking Fauci's head on a pike and rushing headlong into a million plus dead in the interests of herd immunity. You see what I mean? I'm all for representative government but dumb people are apt to vote for policies that actually make their lot in life WORSE. And that's not even factoring in the fact that dumb people are so easily manipulated (hence my NPC image from before). Give them a few cheap one-liners like "sleepy joe" and "lock'er up" and they just march down the street like freakin' wind-up dolls repeating them ad nauseum. NO CAPACITY for independent thought. Just unrestrained Dunning-Kruger.

View attachment 41432

or worse

View attachment 41433

The problems we're facing in the 21st century are vastly different from those of the 18th when this country was formed. They are macro-level existential crises that demand that people think beyond blue laws and cow paths. The average person seems to be incapable of grasping the data well enough to be able to formulate a workable policy. Instead they fall back on the brain-stem. Tribal affiliation and short-term self-interest.

So yeah, count every vote because that's how this country was formed but frankly I would prefer that we institute some sort of minimum SAT style test before people were allowed to vote.

I disagree in that I think the much larger problem is misinformation and social media rabbit holes. Probably the biggest problem we have right now is that when a below average intelligence person (which by the way, absolutely can be a Democrat) goes on the internet, the Dunning-Kruger effect, as you say, can eat them alive.

Both parties are capable of this kind of thinking (though I think the right does it at a more widespread rate). While I support the general theme of Black Lives Matter (of course, I support black lives), there are a lot of people who go along with this like a religion on the left. I actually think that Trump, in part, got a lot of votes because of left-wing echo chambers as well. It's simply not racist to look at a police shooting and sometimes take the side of the cop. I've seen people who are so indoctrinated with the police brutality stuff that a man (of any race, really) could be charging at a cop with a weapon and they would blame the cop for shooting this person. This is nonsense, and sadly, why Trump partly got more "hold your nose" votes than he deserved.

I digress. In general, I don't view it so much as the left is smart and the right as dumb as much as the left's ignorance tends to be more in the spirit of lifting people up, while the rights is more in the spirit of "misery loves company." The racist dog whistles and "go back where you came from" all while being triggered over really small things -- well it's a horrific stain on mankind.

 

[Daniel Lion]

A friend of my kid came by last night, his mom is Laotian and Dad is from Sweden.
We were chilling and started talking about food from Sweden and Laos... blahblah... and he asked me "what's your favorite American Food?"

I answered..." burritos"... He said "that's not American"... I said sure it is. I grew up eating bagels and lox from the bakery around the corner every weekend... and that was "just as American as Mexican food"...

After some time... a light bulb went off... My Swedish friend wanted something quintessentially American like hamburgers... he wouldn't give me pizza... he said that was Italian.

The lightbulb was... "Thanksgiving"... what an awesome meal and usually falls on mom's birthday which is the 27th.

Happy Thanksgiving fellow US folks here. Have a good one.

 

[Luman]

My feeling is that anti-intellectualism is a maladaptive dead-end. Think Idiocracy.......................So yeah, count every vote because that's how this country was formed but frankly I would prefer that we institute some sort of minimum SAT style test before people were allowed to vote.

You are aware of course, that if you did this, it would eliminate a major segment of minority votes, and they have a tendency to believe that the Democrats are actually going to help them, which is exactly what Malcom X insisted was a lie. That SAT type of test for voters, sounds very Nazi-like.

The progressives are already saying that Biden owes them. This is going to be very amusing. The country is going to long for 2017-2019, when a man was in charge when there was the lowest unemployment rates, highest financial markets, and a happiness factor in the country that the polls showed as very high. Biden and that woman cannot do it, unless they move to the center, and even then it will be very difficult to duplicate Trump's first three years. The progressives caused this, with their far left agenda, and with the riots and mayhem, they killed the Democrats' chances of a landslide.

Get ready for Trump 2024, lol.

 

[Zugzug]

Philadelphia: Evacuations underway after bomb threats near vote counting centre

And so it begins. Breaks my heart.

 

[PeteJ]

New Judicial Watch Study Finds 353 U.S. Counties in 29 States with Voter Registration Rates Exceeding 100%

28 Million Mail-In Ballots Went Missing in Last Four Elections!

Hmmmm... so it's rare and all the accusations are false... tv networks decide to shut down Trump's address...

Censorship, collaboration of MSM and other sites to censor...

 

[Zugzug]

To lighten the mood:

Why does Jake Tapper always look like he's crying? I wonder if he had that look when he lost his virginity. Also, Tucker Carlson always looks like a puppy dog. It feels patronizing, like he's trying to talk down to his viewers.

 

[Lilah]

Devastating! Why is it affecting me so much, the thought of Trump not having a second term makes me depressed. I feel sad for him.

I HATE the combination of Biden and Harris! Presidency should have an age limit.

I hope you feel a bit better after reading this:

Ten Reasons Why It Could Be Awesome for Conservatives if Biden Wins

 

[Juan]

I think the results of this election make it pretty clear that there's basically a cold civil war happening, between the largely blue economic engines of the country, and the big red spaces in between which are increasingly depressed and economically irrelevant as the US fully becomes a knowledge economy.

I think this is already reflected on real estate prices, that are booming generally, but specially in blue states, although now with the work from home possibility there are tech workers moving out of California.

By the way, I am very curious to see how the real estate bubble is going to unfold, since many people in the US own several properties (buy to rent) each with their own mortgage. Many of them requested forbearance but next year it will be over, so... will prices go down as foreclosures increase? Will the market cool down, with a drop in prices? Will prices continue to go up?

It's quite interesting...

 

[Juan]

trade wars and strict immigration policy can bring back the good old days.

Do you think the farmers agree with Donald Trump rising tariffs to foreign imports, a policy that backfired and made other countries to impose tariffs on farming products?

 

[Born To Slay]

I hope you feel a bit better after reading this:

Ten Reasons Why It Could Be Awesome for Conservatives if Biden Wins

As a progressive I enjoyed reading that article, whoever wrote it has a good sense of humor. That said, we don't know who won the Senate yet, so the first one is a little presumptive.