2020 US Presidential Election

[Zugzug]

@just1morething -- I'm not sure why you wouldn't think so, just follow the money. Are you aware there's enormous amounts of money to be made by making things up, especially when it comes to spinning wild tales about the demonic and pedophilia Democrats?

Some of those guys over at Fox News and other "conservative" talk show hosts like Rush Limbaugh make tens of millions of dollars per year. Fake news is an extremely profitable business, and they're successful because they know how to manipulate the emotional centers of vulnerable and gullible people.

My understanding is that the term "fake news" came into play during the 2016 election. It was a time when hucksters from all over the world would try to create lucrative clickbait by coming up with outlandish titles to even more outlandish articles, and profit from their fabrications. These people were mostly apolitical--they just wanted to make money.

What they discovered is that when they tried to lure in left-leaning people with outrageous lies about conservative politicians, the "lefties" wouldn't bite. They couldn't make any money. But when they tried to lure right-leaning people with outrageous lies about more liberal politicians, they got huge responses. The discovered right-leaning people seem to love wild conspiracy theories. And they took off, because that's where the money was.

About the time this phenomenon became better known, Trump (deftly) stepped into this arena and started describing anything coming out of any mainstream news organization as fake news, especially if it was critical of him... Before long, tens of millions of people came to believe Trump instead of mainstream news organizations.

They came to believe there's no reason to be concerned about climate change (arguably a much bigger issue than the current temporary COVID-19 pandemic). They also came to believe their coal jobs were coming back. Add a few hundred other things they came to believe, and now they believe Trump was wrongfully cheated out of an electoral win. It's truly a sad situation to see how so many people can be so manipulated to such an extent.

@Lane:

It's so refreshing to see a conservative with real standards. I honestly don't even recognize it anymore.

 

[Zugzug]

Oh great, now I'm on a list tracked by AOC for clicking on that .

Seriously though, who did that website?

The first of the three "Women for Trump" photos (and the prominent one when you open on mobile) features a photo of Trump with a female child.

Exercise:

Take that same photo and replace Trump with Biden and Melania with Kamala.

 

[Daniel Lion]

Call off the election results. I have hard proof that it was illegitimate!

View attachment 42160

Sorry if the hand writing is sloppy. An angry Marxist was breathing down my neck while I was filling it out.

Funny...

I had a funny thought as well.... I hope you like it... I am also surrounded by communists and Buddhists. Double whammy.

I read this in the Boston Globe, dated April 18th 2021 -

Carl LeBel - "Frequency Therapeutics is excited to be the first company to have successfully regenerated hearing with our novel drug FX-322. We have decided after counsel and support with our wise and noble POTUS to rename the drug "Biden322". Harris69 was rejected flat out for obvious reasons and the word in the old age homes is that they just call it the "Joe Shot".

 

[Lucifer]

https://www.unilad.co.uk/life/matth...n-illiberal-left-and-cancel-culture-comments/

I thought this article might be interesting for you to hear. It talks about how the Democratic supporters are being hypocrites about Republicans believing that the 2020 US Presidential election was rigged whereas back in 2016 Democrats and the media were saying the election was rigged and blamed Russia for interfering the 2016 US Presidential election and now since it's the other way round Democrats are saying it can't have been rigged where they themselves were saying it was rigged back in 2016.

They also talked about cancel culture where as a society we can no longer have a difference in opinions anymore. If you don't agree with anything with the left they will force their opinions on you and get you cancelled if you don't agree with them.

 

[FGG]

https://www.unilad.co.uk/life/matth...n-illiberal-left-and-cancel-culture-comments/

I thought this article might be interesting for you to hear. It talks about how the Democratic supporters are being hypocrites about Republicans believing that the 2020 US Presidential election was rigged whereas back in 2016 Democrats and the media were saying the election was rigged and blamed Russia for interfering the 2016 US Presidential election and now since it's the other way round Democrats are saying it can't have been rigged where they themselves were saying it was rigged back in 2016.

They also talked about cancel culture where as a society we can no longer have a difference in opinions anymore. If you don't agree with anything with the left they will force their opinions on you and get you cancelled if you don't agree with them.

What you might not realize is the right has their own "cancel culture."

What about Trump telling people to boycott the NFL? What about Pence's walk out? What about ruining Kaepernick's entire career over his political opinions?

I remember Republican groups in Florida calling for a boycott of Disney due to their "gay day".

Is "quiting Twitter for Parlor" not cancel culture?

Is calls for not visiting the entire Pacific NW not cancel culture?

Literally the only difference is that conservatives call it "patriotism" not cancel culture and you are hearing their marketing (which they are good at).

But supporting free speech means you have to allow celebrities to voice their political opinion.

And the worst "cancel culture" is things like when Trump literally threatened not to give NY the COVID-19 vaccine because he doesn't like their governor.

 

[GlennS]

There's something about human nature that has certain mental bottlenecks. Those who get sucked into conspiracy theories are incapable of being reflexive enough to comprehend that those who are selling them on these theories themselves may be trying to exploit them. I think this is because in their minds they classify sources of information based on a top-down power-hierarchy. Those spinning the theories are always cast as David vs. Goliath. So it plays into a cynical narrative of power, coercion, and grass-roots justice movements. They don't extend their thought process to consider that accusations of fraud could be the actual fraud. This is why martyr complexes are so effective. Every tinpot dictator casts himself and by extension the country as a martyr.

People are just, well, they're dumb, and that's why democracy is so fragile. The dumb vote based on false and pre-programmed assumptions. Even if we experience buyer's remorse, the damage is done. (BTW, note that Nixon won in a landslide in 1972 prior to Watergate breaking, despite Vietnam raging on during that time, something I'll never understand, that and the 2004 GW reelection.)

 

[Zugzug]

And the worst "cancel culture" is things like when Trump literally threatened not to give NY the COVID-19 vaccine because he doesn't like their governor.

Better yet: Cancel Democracy because he lost the most clean and fair election imaginable.

 

[Born To Slay]

@Luman what's so funny about FGG's post? She proved that the right are hypocrites on the issue of cancel culture. What happens to be comical about that?

Why is it that the right wing rants against cancel culture yet they themselves try to cancel people and institutions?

@Lucifer I'm also curious for your thoughts. I agree with you that many are hypocrites on the issue of election security. But I'm curious to hear your thoughts on FGG's good list of occasions where the right wing tried to cancel people or individuals.

 

[Zugzug]

I thought this article might be interesting for you to hear. It talks about how the Democratic supporters are being hypocrites about Republicans believing that the 2020 US Presidential election was rigged whereas back in 2016 Democrats and the media were saying the election was rigged and blamed Russia for interfering the 2016 US Presidential election and now since it's the other way round Democrats are saying it can't have been rigged where they themselves were saying it was rigged back in 2016.

But let's be precise. Russia really did interfere in our election. This is not along the same lines of Trump's voter fraud accusations, which are 100% fictional. I've gone through it before, but here is an entire Wikipedia page talking about all of the details. Robert Mueller, a lifelong Republican, concluded that Trump did obstruct justice and that he didn't not collude, in the sense that he warmly welcomed it, but not to the level of a crime.

I've expressed this many times, but I'll say it again. The "hoax" aspect of the Russian interference certainly isn't that they didn't interfere, but that a Trump supporter would have otherwise voted for Hillary Clinton without the Russian interference. I thought the mainstream media was in denial over the fact that so many people could genuinely vote for Trump. I was not in denial over this. I knew it was just excuses all along.

So when 2020 came around and there actually was no Russian interference, the fact that people still voted for Trump didn't surprise me. I knew these same people were just moving the goal posts back in 2016 and making excuses.

These are not the same thing at all. Trump called voter fraud before anyone even voted and any fraud could even occur. He designed the problem so that he was always the victim. It never had anything to do with any real evidence.

 

[Luman]

Regardless of what people are saying, Trump is going to take full credit for Operation Warp Speed, which resulted in an excellent vaccine, several in fact, in record time. He reportedly will focus on this accomplishment in his 2024 Presidential campaign.

 

[Lane]

Those who get sucked into conspiracy theories are incapable of being reflexive enough to comprehend that those who are selling them on these theories themselves may be trying to exploit them.

Which leads right into this article: -- How QAnon's lies are hijacking the national conversation.

The introduction (below) provides insight into just one example of how totally made up, inane wild conspiracies are started, and how they can spread like wildfire. And then the Conspirator in Chief chimes in to lend his support, and off you go to the loonielands. Just like what we're seeing with the whole "election fraud" malfeasance that has reached into the highest echelons of the Republican party.

"It started with a Tweet from a QAnon supporter at 2:09 in the morning: #SubpoenaObama.

Though devoid of context, the cryptic message made sense to anyone in tune with the groundless conspiracy theory that the Obama administration -- prior to leaving office in 2017 -- had taken active measures to undermine the incoming Trump presidency. Within a minute, the same Twitter account sent another tweet encouraging others to push the hashtag, adding that if they do, "good things will happen."

Dozens of QAnon enthusiasts obliged, and before long the hashtag was on fire, at times racking up roughly 4,000 tweets per hour, according to the Network Contagion Research Institute (NCRI), which tracks misinformation across social media channels. Along the way #SubpoenaObama was tweeted by conservative influencers such as Glenn Beck and former Fox Nation personalities Diamond and Silk.

By the next day, May 14, the hashtag had apparently caught the eye of President Trump, who used Twitter to urge Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina -- chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee -- to call Obama to testify. "He knew EVERYTHING," Trump tweeted, referring to Obama. "Just do it."

Later that day, Graham announced a probe into the matter -- although he begged off Trump's request to subpoena Obama himself..."​

 

[Lilah]

People are just, well, they're dumb, and that's why democracy is so fragile. The dumb vote based on false and pre-programmed assumptions.

I assume then that you are one of the "smart" and "informed" people?

On a more serious note, why do liberals believe that the common man is "dumb"?

 

[just1morething]

Civilized human beings would belong to the pro-life party and not have the taxpayers pay for barbaric treatment to the unborn who have no voice. There are exclusions of course. Some of the "nutters" on the left don't even take that into consideration.

 

[aot]

Civilized human beings would belong to the pro-life party and not have the taxpayers pay for barbaric treatment to the unborn who have no voice. There are exclusions of course. Some of the "nutters" on the left don't even take that into consideration.

 

[Lucifer]

@Luman what's so funny about FGG's post? She proved that the right are hypocrites on the issue of cancel culture. What happens to be comical about that?

Why is it that the right wing rants against cancel culture yet they themselves try to cancel people and institutions?

@Lucifer I'm also curious for your thoughts. I agree with you that many are hypocrites on the issue of election security. But I'm curious to hear your thoughts on FGG's good list of occasions where the right wing tried to cancel people or individuals.

I don't agree that Colin Kaepernick should have been fired from the NFL. That was totally wrong for them to do. There is still a chance that he could be back in the NFL but another possibility for him to play again is to play in the XFL which is owned by Dwayne Johnson.

I agree with you that there is a cancel culture with both the left and right but the left have far more things to cancel someone out than the right.

 

[FGG]

Civilized human beings would belong to the pro-life party and not have the taxpayers pay for barbaric treatment to the unborn who have no voice. There are exclusions of course. Some of the "nutters" on the left don't even take that into consideration.

Restriction abortion does not reduce it:

https://www.guttmacher.org/article/...me-region-and-legal-status-abortion-estimates

Any good or service easily traded on the black market cannot be controlled by legal status. See also: the failed war on drugs.

The only proven methods are sex education and cheap contraception access something the right is against. And that blows my mind. Increasing sex ed and providing contraception is the *first* thing you should do if the life of the unborn is paramount to you.

Nevermind affordable access to neonatal care, which the right is also against. It seems like empty lip service to passionately care about the unborn but not to want to provide universal medical coverage to the "just born" with it.

 

[FGG]

I don't agree that Colin Kaepernick should have been fired from the NFL. That was totally wrong for them to do. There is still a chance that he could be back in the NFL but another possibility for him to play again is to play in the XFL which is owned by Dwayne Johnson.

I agree with you that there is a cancel culture with both the left and right but the left have far more things to cancel someone out than the right.

It's not that there are more things for the left to cancel, it's just that specifically Hollywood is left and celebrity culture seems to be more important to you and that's fine of course but it's not the whole picture.

If you take a very right wing area, like Oklahoma, where my good friend is from, he knows of one liberal friend who was "cancelled" from his job because a very rich donor to the organization he worked for didn't like a Democrat working there (he even got emailed directly from the rich donor who saw his pro Biden public Facebook post, so it is not an assumption as to what happened).

This same friend (my friend in this case, not my friend's friend) was part of a smear campaign to get him out of his giant pumpkin growing club because he posted an anti Trump meme but since he is actually the founder and moderator it didn't work.

 

[Zugzug]

On a more serious note, why do liberals believe that the common man is "dumb"?

First of all, a lot of this is just not true. I used to work in the most liberal environment imaginable and honestly, I generally felt like the people I was around respected the working class more than themselves.

But why do liberals get mad and start calling Trump supporters stupid? Here's why:

Love him or hate him (I'm personally lukewarm), there is no way one could argue that Bernie Sanders hates the common man. You may disagree with his policies, but no one thinks that deep in Bernie's heart, he looks down upon struggling Americans. But whenever the guy talks, conservatives freak out over a fear of socialism. You have expressed a fear of "freebies". Meanwhile, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk have seen their wealth skyrocket during a pandemic and recession. My friend (who's an actual genius and used to be very highly productive) was rejected disability out of a paranoia of helping the disabled too much.

So yeah, when a group claims to be struggling, but then scoffs at the idea of doing something about it, the only reasonable conclusion is that they are either transparently overly prideful or very stupid.

The "liberal elite" weapon is a double edged sword. You're either saying screw the liberals that have the most respect for the common man (progressives), or you're saying screw the well-off, pompous liberal who holds the exact same views of socialism as you do. It doesn't check out, to be honest.

 

[just1morething]

but not to want to provide universal medical coverage to the "just born" with it.

I never said that. I agree we should have more affordable healthcare and universal medical coverage. Obamacare is too expensive for most people. My premiums are very high. You can't just generalize that if someone is against one thing that you can't be for another.

Some posters on the left calling others dumb all the time is not right. It's just plain rude. If they have some superiority complex, that's their problem.

 

[Lucifer]

It's not that there are more things for the left to cancel, it's just that specifically Hollywood is left and celebrity culture seems to be more important to you and that's fine of course but it's not the whole picture.

If you take a very right wing area, like Oklahoma, where my good friend is from, he knows of one liberal friend who was "cancelled" from his job because a very rich donor to the organization he worked for didn't like a Democrat working there (he even got emailed directly from the rich donor who saw his pro Biden public Facebook post, so it is not an assumption as to what happened).

This same friend (my friend in this case, not my friend's friend) was part of a smear campaign to get him out of his giant pumpkin growing club because he posted an anti Trump meme but since he is actually the founder and moderator it didn't work.

I agree with you on that but when the celebrities and the media have basically controlled the outcome of the 2020 US Presidential election by telling everyone to vote Democratic then we have a big problem. No one should be telling anyone who to vote for and if someone votes for Republican then they shouldn't be cancelled for it.

I was mainly agreeing with the article that there was hypocrisy on both sides. The only problem is that Democrats are continuing to view themselves as a higher standard compared to the Republicans. I find that the Democrats can get away from that hypocrisy easily compared to Republicans.

That's a shame. I'm glad your friend didn't get fired from his job. No one should be fired because of their different political beliefs.

 

[Born To Slay]

Screw the NFL, they're not important in any sense and I cannot understand why anybody gives a damn about them. Screw Disney, and the limosine liberals that run Hollywood. Screw 'em all.

It was Cuomo and some other Governors who stupidly decided, for political reasons, to announce that they would not release the vaccine until they had it checked out by their own medical panels. They made the public paranoid about this vaccine, simply because Trump is the President, so many will now refuse to take it. And yes, I understand that many Republicans are also not taking it, for different reasons. The anti-Trump CNN has the story about New York in this article. Trump did not say that he was not going to give it to New York, he has to get it out to the states that need it and aren't plyaing games. We got it anyway. Cuomo recently said that the press has gone too far in attacking Trump. Imagine that, perhaps Cuomo is beginning to realize that Trump took care of NYS all along, very well, since the state needed help. Cuomo screwed up by putting COVID-19 patients in nursing homes, perhaps he'll learn to stop acting as high and mighty as he always has.

I don't give a damn about them either but it's the height of hypocrisy that we have to hear from Trump how the left is out canceling people when the right wing issues boycott after boycott to cancel anyone that disagrees with them.

 

[Luman]

What you might not realize is the right has their own "cancel culture."

What about Trump telling people to boycott the NFL? What about Pence's walk out? What about ruining Kaepernick's entire career over his political opinions?

I remember Republican groups in Florida calling for a boycott of Disney due to their "gay day".

Is "quiting Twitter for Parlor" not cancel culture?

Is calls for not visiting the entire Pacific NW not cancel culture?

Literally the only difference is that conservatives call it "patriotism" not cancel culture and you are hearing their marketing (which they are good at).

But supporting free speech means you have to allow celebrities to voice their political opinion.

And the worst "cancel culture" is things like when Trump literally threatened not to give NY the COVID-19 vaccine because he doesn't like their governor.

@Luman what's so funny about FGG's post? She proved that the right are hypocrites on the issue of cancel culture. What happens to be comical about that?

Screw the NFL, they're not important in any sense and I cannot understand why anybody gives a damn about them. Screw Disney, and the limousine liberals that run Hollywood. Screw 'em all.

It was Cuomo and some other Governors who stupidly decided, for political reasons, to announce that they would not release the vaccine until they had it checked out by their own medical panels. They made the public paranoid about this vaccine, simply because Trump is the President, so many will now refuse to take it. And yes, I understand that many Republicans are also not taking it, for different reasons. The anti-Trump CNN has the story about New York in this article. Trump did not say that he was not going to give it to New York, he has to get it out to the states that need it and aren't playing games. We got it anyway. Cuomo recently said that the press has gone too far in attacking Trump. Imagine that, perhaps Cuomo is beginning to realize that Trump took care of NYS all along, very well, since the state needed help. Cuomo messed up big time, by putting COVID-19 patients in nursing homes, perhaps he'll learn to stop acting as high and mighty as he always has.

 

[Born To Slay]

I don't agree that Colin Kaepernick should have been fired from the NFL. That was totally wrong for them to do. There is still a chance that he could be back in the NFL but another possibility for him to play again is to play in the XFL which is owned by Dwayne Johnson.

I agree with you that there is a cancel culture with both the left and right but the left have far more things to cancel someone out than the right.

Are there though? There's been plenty of occasions where the right was doing this, it's not just FGG's example either. The right wing tried to cancel Target for allowing trans people to use the rest rooms of their choice. They threw a National tantrum and #BoycottTarget trended for that reason for weeks.

 

[FGG]

I never said that. I agree we should have more affordable healthcare and universal medical coverage. Obamacare is too expensive for most people. My premiums are very high. You can't just generalize that if someone is against one thing that you can't be for another.

I'm glad to hear you support that! Politicians on the right have been opposing that for years. That makes you personally at least consistent and i can respect that.

 

[TeeOh]

First of all, a lot of this is just not true. I used to work in the most liberal environment imaginable and honestly, I generally felt like the people I was around respected the working class more than themselves.

But why do liberals get mad and start calling Trump supporters stupid? Here's why:

Love him or hate him (I'm personally lukewarm), there is no way one could argue that Bernie Sanders hates the common man. You may disagree with his policies, but no one thinks that deep in Bernie's heart, he looks down upon struggling Americans. But whenever the guy talks, conservatives freak out over a fear of socialism. You have expressed a fear of "freebies". Meanwhile, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk have seen their wealth skyrocket during a pandemic and recession. My friend (who's an actual genius and used to be very highly productive) was rejected disability out of a paranoia of helping the disabled too much.

So yeah, when a group claims to be struggling, but then scoffs at the idea of doing something about it, the only reasonable conclusion is that they are either transparently overly prideful or very stupid.

The "liberal elite" weapon is a double edged sword. You're either saying screw the liberals that have the most respect for the common man (progressives), or you're saying screw the well-off, pompous liberal who holds the exact same views of socialism as you do. It doesn't check out, to be honest.

If I recall correctly, but a conversative in Germany helped create the foundations of their "socialised" healthcare system. Shouldn't Trump fan boys be all for this because this just proves it isn't communism if conservatives supported it over 100 years ago?

Seriously the only way they will change their mind is if Trump said he was a socialist ready to nationalise industry and businesses to share the wealth (especially if he says the reason is to overthrow the "liberal elites" lol).

Kinda like how before Trump won the 2016 election said that Assad in Syria should stay in power because he doesn't want another Iraq (even though he did support that war before he ran for president). Then he came into power and admitted to wanting to assassinate Assad and he did the opposite of leaving Syria alone. You know what happened? Some of his supporters went from anti-regime change to full blown neo-cons!

EDIT: found something relating to the first part -
https://voxeu.org/article/bismarck-s-health-insurance-and-its-impact-mortality.

In December 1884, Otto von Bismarck, Chancellor of the German Empire, introduced the first large-scale compulsory insurance to establish universal healthcare... Even today, many health insurance systems are based on Bismarck's health insurance.

 

[Born To Slay]

I agree with you on that but when the celebrities and the media have basically controlled the outcome of the 2020 US Presidential election by telling everyone to vote Democratic then we have a big problem. No one should be telling anyone who to vote for and if someone votes for Republican then they shouldn't be cancelled for it.

I was mainly agreeing with the article that there was hypocrisy on both sides. The only problem is that Democrats are continuing to view themselves as a higher standard compared to the Republicans. I find that the Democrats can get away from that hypocrisy easily compared to Republicans.

That's a shame. I'm glad your friend didn't get fired from his job. No one should be fired because of their different political beliefs.

How did the celebrities and media control the results of the election? The conservatives have their own media, Tucker Carlson is the most popular commentator after all and Fox News is the most popular media outlet. So the right is not doing a bad job getting their message out. What they lack in quantity, they've managed to make up for.

The election was pretty damn close. The Democrats barely won the house, the Senate is so close it's still contested now and the Presidency was somewhat close also. If the "liberal media" is in control, they suck at their jobs.

 

[Lucifer]

Are there though? There's been plenty of occasions where the right was doing this, it's not just FGG's example either. The right wing tried to cancel Target for allowing trans people to use the rest rooms of their choice. They threw a National tantrum and #BoycottTarget trended for that reason for weeks.

No one is going to get cancelled for having pro life and pro LGBTQIA+ views but when it's the opposite the left generally want to cancel those that don't agree with them. Imagine those celebrities in the Hollywood industry mention they were pro-life. I wouldn't be surprised that the people on the left want to get them fired for having those views.

I just hope when the next election comes around there won't be this controversy on who you vote for compared to the 2016 and 2020 US Presidential election.

 

[FGG]

Are there though? There's been plenty of occasions where the right was doing this, it's not just FGG's example either. The right wing tried to cancel Target for allowing trans people to use the rest rooms of their choice. They threw a National tantrum and #BoycottTarget trended for that reason for weeks.

I think he mostly just means Hollywood and the rest has less weight to him personally because it's not a cultural export to NZ where he lives. Is that fair assessment of it, @Lucifer.

 

[FGG]

It was Cuomo and some other Governors who stupidly decided, for political reasons, to announce that they would not release the vaccine until they had it checked out by their own medical panels. They made the public paranoid about this vaccine, simply because Trump is the President, so many will now refuse to take it.

What's wrong with state medical advisors advising a politician (Cuomo in this case, who is not a medical professional) on a vaccine?

I'm curious to see anyone cite Cuomo as a reason not to take the vaccine (if you have a video in mind, I would like to see it). Millions of people have cited Trump, though because who would want to get vaccinated for a "hoax"?

 

[FGG]

No one is going to get cancelled for having pro life and pro LGBTQIA+ views but when it's the opposite the left generally want to cancel those that don't agree with them. Imagine those celebrities in the Hollywood industry mention they were pro-life. I wouldn't be surprised that the people on the left want to get them fired for having those views.

I just hope when the next election comes around there won't be this controversy on who you vote for compared to the 2016 and 2020 US Presidential election.

Be specific. Who got "cancelled" or is being fired for having pro life views? Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by cancelled. Justin Bieber is very pro life. How is he not "cancelled"?

Is criticism being "cancelled" to you? Because google will show you there are plenty of pro life Hollywood celebrities with zero boycott movements. But no one should be above criticism or the right of the consumer to watch what they want to.

@Zugzug had a great example earlier in the thread. Should the right be forced to watch the NFL as not to participate in "cancel culture" or should people be free to allow moral judgement to play into their entertainment decisions?