2020 US Presidential Election

[TeeOh]

"The world is a mess. The world is as angry as it gets" - Trump

 

[Born To Slay]

He is done. He will take his money and run. The next year will be a propaganda campaign stroking his ego, but ultimately he's toast and so are his kids. Keep an eye out for conservative TV celebrities. Gordon Ramsey... he is angry, but he's British.

I disagree actually, while I'd like to see new polling numbers, the sad fact is that even after this episode, he'd still likely be able to win the Republican primary. I don't think he's done destroying our democracy.

Think I'm wrong? Well just remember this, 138 House Republicans voted to object to the results in PA last night. Even after the riots, they're still enabling lies by Trump.

 

[FGG]

This is so sad:

It's a cult. I'm so glad Trump will be gone soon.

 

[Born To Slay]

45% of Republicans support the Washington riots yesterday and 138 House Republicans voted to throw out the results in PA even after the riots we saw yesterday. Trump still has a lot of enablers in his party. In fact, he almost certainly has enough sycophants still there to win the nomination in 2024.

 

[aot]

Something I thought was interesting.

(Video is subtitled.)

 

[GlennS]

TeeOh, I can't believe Trump loyalists storm the capital and the first thing on your mind is to pull a Newsmax and start slinging Whataboutisms about democrats and attacking Pelosi and Obama. WTF, man? Have a sense of perspective.

 

[Christiaan]

The voting public will never embrace Europe's brand of socialism for a host of reasons, not the least of which is we have been conditioned not to accept the high taxes required to bankroll it, hence we'd get the "spend" and not the "tax" part of Reagan's "tax and spend liberal" that has been ingrained into the public. Even figures like Clinton tried to avoid going down that road in order to distance himself from Carter's policies (or Reagan's characterization of his policies).

I'm not talking about what would be best for the US. I'm only talking about the Overton window of acceptable policy in this country.

The reason Bernie is an exception should be obvious--he comes from one of the few post-hippie enclaves left in the US.

I guess this comes across as sort of fatalistic, but I've learned not to bother advocating for policies I know will never gain traction.

You may be right about most Americans not being receptive to European style Social Democracy. I have never been to America so I try to refrain from making any bold statements concerning this matter.

What do you think of Lee Carter's win on a DSA ticket a few years ago in a deep red district (Virginia)? It could be a one-off but could it also be possible that Republicans and Democrats can be won for a socialist agenda? I think it might be the latter, as we have seen in an earlier Fox News poll that a majority of their viewers are won for a nationalised health care system, as well stricter controls on gun sales, more support for citizenship illegal residents, etc.

Link:
https://www.dailydot.com/debug/fox-exit-polls-shows-americans-liberal/

 

[Jack Straw]

I find it hilarious that before the election Republicans were saying, "You need to learn to lose gracefully" and "Rioting and destruction will solve nothing."

How ironic!

 

[Christiaan]

I try to compartmentalize and say it's just a few bad actors, but it's really not. It's enough to conclude that the Republican party is batshit crazy. Ted Cruz was on the floor objecting to the results in Arizona for no reason other than to usurp democracy.

This is just insanity. And all for what? Because they can't handle Joe Fucking Biden being President?

Earlier today, @Pulsing Ear made the point that according to polls, most Republicans support this nonsense. It's a bad day to be right about that.

The damage that the Republican Party has done to American democracy is beyond words. Even removing the President amendment may not be enough, because you indeed have sycophants like Ted Cruz and dozens of other Republicans who defend Trump's fascist ideology and incited the domestic terror attack on the Capitol. Not to mention the silent ''majority'' who basically enabled these people, like the ''moderates'' Lisa Murkowski & Mitch McConnell. Is there a majority in congress for the expulsion of all these people who played a part in this vicious attack?

 

[Zugzug]

You called him and Cruz an asshole 3 times? You sound as angry as the people that harassed Hawley's wife and child.

You do know that the main point is having control and an objective voice over one's anger, right? People seek out anger management partially because they feel a lot of anger and partially because they don't understand how to channel it. Mouthing off about politics in an anonymous tinnitus forum is a pretty responsible way to channel anger. But oh God, I used a cuss word. Lock me up.

I use the word "asshole" appropriately and that puts me in the same territory of people who harass families? Lol, you don't even believe that. Trump is angry 24/7 over spilt milk and you probably love that he tells it like it is.

Besides, what am I going to do with my anger? I haven't left my home in 9 months, can't talk, can't tolerate doors opening and closing, etc. It's not even possible for me to hurt someone, even if I wanted to (which I don't).

 

[Christiaan]

Personally I don't really focus too much on Venezuela so I can't really comment too much on what you said, however I will say there is a lot of things aren't true or are missing some detail (not specifically what you said, but based on some things I learned). Even Wikipedia can be quite questionable when it involves geopolitics, because sometimes they do allow questionable sources from Pro-War NGO's so always go deep into it. I wouldn't put too much faith into Juan Guaido either as I wouldn't put faith into Jeanine Áñez (look up the Gray Zones video on her. They showed support to Juan Guiado too and let's say she's a Pinochet wannabe).

A country not so far from there is Bolivia, which actually has close ties to Venezuela. There was claims of voter fraud after Evo Morales won in a landslide who also happens to be a guy who wanted to nationalise the lithium (never nationalise, because Iran did that to their oil and that led to Operation Ajax which is a proven false flag to justify decades of foreign oppression on Iranians) and he striked a deal to sell it to China. A coup then happened that Washington approved of. Anyways the crazy Pinchochet wannabe woman stepped down after civil unrest. They had another election and Evo Morales party won in a landslide again by over 20% which kinda disproves the point about Evo Morales being a dictator.

'No evidence of fraud' in Morales poll victory, say US researchers

2020 Bolivian General Election

Can't forget about this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor

Bolivia and Venezuala are two different things.

Venezuala voted in 2018 in majority by lawmakers for another president but they were repressed by a government that used different means to obstruct democracy (banning oppositional parties). In 2020, with the recent elections, it was no different. They made political campaigns impossible for oppositional parties. It was for this reason that Guado and his allies asked the Venezuela's public to stay home as a protest against the unfair way how elections are conducted.

Bolivia had a ''bothism'' problem. The former leader Evo Morales had been exiled because he defied term limits & his party has been involved in election fraud. In other terms, he and his party were not really respectful towards the rule of law. On the other hand, Jeanine Anez and her ''pro white'' conservative & neoliberal allies worked with undemocratic institutes like the military to overthrow the government, even though they do not received a mandate from the people to run a government (only 1/3 vote of. parliament after abstention of Morales' MAS party). This far right interim government did not survive the test of time with the recent elections, in which they were fairly defeated (according to several election watchers) by the MAS party of the new leader, Luis Arce, who said that there will be no place for his predecessor.

 

[Christiaan]

From what I remember you referred to the Trump voters as "cuckoo". Senator Cruz from Texas said we need an audit to prove if there was or was not fraud in the elections. I don't see what's wrong with that with the country divided.

I'm not going to repeat what others have said on Tinnitus Talk about Republican efforts in delegitimising the elections. We all have been over that many times before in our previous exchanges.

I'll only say this: if you lend your vote to Donald Trump and the people who agree with him or enable him, you normalise fascism and thus effectively enable people who harm others by using hate, fear and division in their pursuit for power. These are the kind of people who only care about stroking their ego and won't break a sweat to help people out of compassion. Most Republicans don't care about you. You have been duped.

 

[Christiaan]

Change the instrument to a smartphone with Twitter on it.

View attachment 42598

Trump really is Emperor Nero.

 

[Luman]

Dear Trumpers,

When Mr. Trump was elected I had an open mind and liked his inauguration speech. I was hopeful he would rebuild infrastructure and usher in a renaissance of new green and cutting edge technologies. I don't know when I lost faith in him, but I did give him an earnest shot for a long a time.

You should give the new folks a chance if you have it in you.

I do not accept the word "Trumper" as descriptive of my choices, or the way that I vote as I did not support him in 2016. I also don't care very much that he lost, he'll do more outside of the White House, than if he were in.

As for the "New folks", who are you referring to, Biden and that woman? Biden is going to have a lot of problems, but he wanted the job. He has to deal with BLM and others from the far left, who feel that he was elected due to their efforts, but most of what they want is not within his power to grant them.

The Democrats fought Trump tooth and nail for four years, and I do not expect Biden to be welcomed with open arms. Trump single handedly decimated the power structure of the Republican Party. which is something that the Democrats could not do, and they hatred for him for doing this. They're going to have a very difficult time of it, for the next four years, and it's their own fault.

 

[Lane]

Then Rudy is as guilty as Trump.

Listen to Rep. Matt Gaetz of Florida.

Two more worst of the worst.

 

[FGG]

The followers of Donald Trump look like really educated, thoughtful, considerate, intellectual people... surely beings capable of thinking before acting or jumping to conclusions:

View attachment 42614

View attachment 42615

View attachment 42616

So what's going to happen to those who assaulted US Capitol yesterday? Are they already on their way to jail?

Heard this morning that the FBI is offering rewards leading to the arrest of each of these people.

 

[Pulsing Ear]

BTW, those of you that use the name "Trumpers" are using a derogatory term that is both insulting and rude. A bit like someone calling a Latino a " wet back".

 

[Christiaan]

I don't disagree with you about the positive role of philosophy. However, I disagree with you that the core problem (in American politics, anyways) is an inability to do enough critical thinking. The real problem is deliberately seeing things the way we want to see them. Though I think a lot of Trump supporters act stupid, I think tons of them are reasonably intelligent -- some are actually brilliant. For example, the Trump supporters in this thread don't come off as particularly dumb, just emotionally invested.

In my opinion, the American people need education on emotional reactions and why, for example, we get more upset when our co-worker makes slightly more money than us, while our company's CEO makes 1000x what we make. We get mad at the co-worker and not the system that enriched the CEO more than they deserve.

As for falling for fake news on the internet, this is driven by emotion. Notice that everyone has a clear head and can debunk face news when it works against them, but we eat it up when it benefits us.

There are all sorts of complicated emotions built into our political beliefs. For example, it feels wrong to question the political beliefs we were taught. The #1 thing we need to do is stop viewing our fellow Americans as enemies. I hope that getting rid of Trump is a start in this direction. It shouldn't be this big dramatic thing to change parties. I'm currently a Democrat, but if the Republican party reforms a lot, I could switch. It's not a big deal. We need to get there.

I don't disagree with you there about fostering emotional intelligence in making well informed decisions. I believe I had a discussion with @Tanni (right? ) and she corrected me that empathy is just as important as philosophical thinking in getting to know other people, their line of thinking and especially the emotional motives behind their decisions. But how do we want to teach it in schools for instance? Could it be via means of literature (identifying with characters? Their hopes, dreams, & struggles?). So how do we want to create a sort of ''empathy revolution''? That's a tough nut to crack but maybe you have a clear vision on that.

I personally am fond of the philosopher Roman Krznaric, who wrote the book ''Empathy: why it matters and how to get it'', in which he details the importance of empathy, its many functions and how it can be fostered. It is pretty interesting to watch Dr. Krznaric's Ted Talk. Maybe it's worth your time

 

[Christiaan]

The bearded guy in @Lilah's photo has an SS tattoo on his hand but they blurred it out in her photo. Totally BLM or antifa. It's always "false flag" with conservatives. Their side never does anything wrong...

Here is the unblurred photo:

View attachment 42597

Some Republicans are just making such ridiculous claims about ''evidence'' of antifa that it's really starting to get sad.

 

[Christiaan]

 

[Christiaan]

I disagree actually, while I'd like to see new polling numbers, the sad fact is that even after this episode, he'd still likely be able to win the Republican primary. I don't think he's done destroying our democracy.

Think I'm wrong? Well just remember this, 138 House Republicans voted to object to the results in PA last night. Even after the riots, they're still enabling lies by Trump.

If Trump really goes down that road, I'll bet he will split the ticket with a new Conservative party, because I ain't buying it that all Republicans want to get on board the Trump train again. Good news for Democrats I suppose.

 

[TeeOh]

Looks like the mask is peeling off slowly over time.

 

[FGG]

 

[Tanni]

You do know that the main point is having control and an objective voice over one's anger, right? People seek out anger management partially because they feel a lot of anger and partially because they don't understand how to channel it. Mouthing off about politics in an anonymous tinnitus forum is a pretty responsible way to channel anger. But oh God, I used a cuss word. Lock me up.

I use the word "asshole" appropriately and that puts me in the same territory of people who harass families? Lol, you don't even believe that. Trump is angry 24/7 over spilt milk and you probably love that he tells it like it is.

Besides, what am I going to do with my anger? I haven't left my home in 9 months, can't talk, can't tolerate doors opening and closing, etc. It's not even possible for me to hurt someone, even if I wanted to (which I don't).

I did originally respond to the comment you are now responding to, but I deleted it because I didn't want to speak for you.

You don't need to justify your post. The comparison made between your use of a mild, non discriminatory swear word and the harassment of small children was incredibly unfair.

 

[Born To Slay]

If Trump really goes down that road, I'll bet he will split the ticket with a new Conservative party, because I ain't buying it that all Republicans want to get on board the Trump train again. Good news for Democrats I suppose.

He doesn't need them all, just more than half. If he can get 51% of primary support, then he'll be the nominee unless the party refuses to let him run, which we've seen no indication that they'll stand up to him in that way.

 

[just1morething]

Some Republicans are just making such ridiculous claims about ''evidence'' of antifa that it's really starting to get sad.

View attachment 42619

It could be Antifa. Trump supporters are usually not violent. Antifa masquerade as Trump supporters. What's to stop them? With the videos and arrests they should be able to figure out who broke in and was the looters.

Pro-life people would be less apt to loot because of their nature.

 

[FGG]

Some Republicans are just making such ridiculous claims about ''evidence'' of antifa that it's really starting to get sad.

View attachment 42619

The facial recognition company that was cited by people like Gaetz said the Trump loyalists' claims that members of antifa were identified at the rally is false:

A Facial Recognition Company Says That Viral Washington Times "Antifa" Story Is False

 

[Born To Slay]

I do not accept the word "Trumper" as descriptive of my choices, or the way that I vote as I did not support him in 2016. I also don't care very much that he lost, he'll do more outside of the White House, than if he were in.

As for the "New folks", who are you referring to, Biden and that woman? Biden is going to have a lot of problems, but he wanted the job. He has to deal with BLM and others from the far left, who feel that he was elected due to their efforts, but most of what they want is not within his power to grant them.

The Democrats fought Trump tooth and nail for four years, and I do not expect Biden to be welcomed with open arms. Trump single handedly decimated the power structure of the Republican Party. which is something that the Democrats could not do, and they hatred for him for doing this. They're going to have a very difficult time of it, for the next four years, and it's their own fault.

Actually now that we have the Senate, Biden can in fact give us left wing policy. Not the most extreme stuff, sure, but he can definitely make college free, give more people healthcare and stuff like that. Now that Georgia gave us two Senators, the Republicans have no say whatsoever over what happens in Congress.

 

[Zugzug]

BTW, those of you that use the name "Trumpers" are using a derogatory term that is both insulting and rude. A bit like someone calling a Latino a " wet back".

Hahahahahaha are you a real person? That actually made me burst up laughing. It can't be real.

Trump just incited domestic terrorism and my concern is supposed to be that one his supporters was oppressed by the word Trumper. Man, laughing is good for the soul, even if it trigger my hyperacusis.

 

[FGG]

It could be Antifa. Trump supporters are usually not violent. Antifa masquerade as Trump supporters. What's to stop them? With the videos and arrests they should be able to figure out who broke in and was the looters.

Pro-life people would be less apt to loot because of their nature.

People are already starting to be identified by the police. So far, none have been antifa:

Longtime Arizona QAnon supporter in horned helmet joins storming of U.S. Capitol