2020 US Presidential Election

[Jrblovsky]

My family and I live in New York and we're very happy here. We'd never want to move.

I live in the north as well. Been here my whole life. Are you upstate or in the the Big Apple?

 

[Lane]

Raffensperger offered to give to Trump (on the leaked phone call) personally all the evidence he and the state of Georgia had that the election is fair. Trump refused. Why would Trump refuse to even *see* this evidence?

@just1morething -- I thought FGG laid out a very clear and concise case for the lack of veracity of the video you've been promoting. I had actually thought about watching it myself, but since initial indications are that it lacks just about any credibility at all (which I had already strongly suspected), I'll likely save myself the time and effort.

That said, I would very much look forward to any rebuttals you may have, challenging FGG point by point. I pay close attention when things are broken down into details, and generally give very little credence to sweeping generalizations. Like, "the whole election was fraudulent".

Thanks @FGG!

 

[Born To Slay]

I live in the north as well. Been here my whole life. Are you upstate or in the the Big Apple?

Oh shit, that's cool. Long Island actually, I'm in the suburbs. About 60 miles from Manhattan by train.

 

[Born To Slay]

I have no idea. I came to this forum because of my tinnitus.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, it's just that one way I judge politicians and how serious they are is how they use their power to achieve objectives. For instance, Joe Biden can forgive student loan debt thru executive order, if he refuses to do so, then I'm going to think him saying he wants to eliminate student loan debt is just virtue signaling.

It's the same thing here, you're holding hearings for these alleged discrepancies but the state legislature has the authority to get the answers to many of the questions they're asking by having the appropriate committees subpoena what they need. Now the state executive branch might fight them and that'd end up in court but it's unlikely the court would side with the state executive branch. So these questions, don't need to be questions, we could get the answers if the state legislature used its proper authority to get them. So I can only wonder why they won't. Is it because they're only interested in putting on a show? Maybe. I figured since you saw the whole thing they may have brought this up and why they aren't doing so.

 

[Lucifer]

White farmers being killed was always a problem before apartheid ended (it was like a war zone before the end of apartheid), just that certain online communities seem to be more bothered about it all of a sudden when it serves their interests. I used to be part of those right-wing communities actually in my younger days, but I started to leave and rethink my beliefs when I noticed they had a very strange pattern of calling specific groups of people "sub-humans" and they're very subtle about these things. They had an obsession with South Africa's affirmative action too.

Actually when I checked back on that community months after changing my beliefs, it started to turn into a full blown Neo-Nazi group praising Hitler and fully embracing White Supremacy (they were 100% serious as they were just insulting every non-white on the planet). It was r/european from Reddit which was a "free speech" alternative to r/Europe, but it got banned anyways due to them inciting violence if I recall correctly. My beliefs weren't exactly extreme at the time, just that a lot of my dumb views were getting downvoted in r/Europe (I was living in Italy temporarily) and just wanted a place I can post my views. I was pretty right-wing, although I didn't shift too hard to the right.

If you're one of these people, I recommend you do the same as I did and reconsider your views because that's the kind of people you are unknowingly getting your information from.

Corruption existed under the Apartheid state as well, except with the added warmongering such as invading Angola so they can prolong their system of oppression until they couldn't get things control where Namibia broke off and then right after, Apartheid ended. Just that the Post-Apartheid state adopted the same government and structures, including corruption and all the other problems that came with it such as poverty. Nelson Mandela did enact some policies to build unity among the whites and blacks which did work as racial division did improve. Things don't get fixed over night.

I have a lot to criticise about South Africa's current government, and a lot of the problems seemed to be adopted from the Apartheid era like what I mentioned with poverty as South Africa isn't exactly the richest nation in the world.

Most of White South Africans leaving came shortly after Apartheid fully ended in 1994. Think about this, but if you lived in a system that you benefited greatly from which required the exploitation of others, wouldn't you feel like leaving once the benefits are removed? The system was racist and required lots of exploitation which benefited a smaller minority. A lot of them supported apartheid and there's a reason why they kept it for decades. As you can see here, the most noticeable drop in white South Africans leaving came very shortly after apartheid ended where they didn't spend much time experiencing the new system even though it was starting to show results such as homicide rates dropping thus already becoming safer than under Apartheid. Below is the white South African population in 1995 and 1996.

1995 - 5,224,000
1996 - 4,434,697

Here's homicide rates dropping right before a huge amount of South Africans left, so they left while the country was statistically getting safer already.

View attachment 42789

The white South African population was on a slow decline after apartheid ended, however now their population has started to grow since 2007 even with a lower fertility rate. Below is the white South African population again:

2007 - 4,352,100
2020 - 4,679,770

The homicide rates are still lower than they were before apartheid ended and whites are still the most well off. Mind you the conditions of South Africa still makes it ready for more civil unrest and who would most likely revolt? The poor of course as they have nothing to lose. Maybe the current government is trying to reduce poverty for groups that got hit the hardest by decades of apartheid, and it just so happens that affirmative action policies might be a quicker fix for it even though it might not be the most idealistic for all. To them it's just more pragmatic to get faster results and to provide some stability in society because it could be a lot more worse. One day when things equalise, maybe they would drop it altogether. As you can see, the poverty rates even went down for whites too, never-mind the non-whites.

View attachment 42790

So I don't see how South Africa adopting a couple of affirmative action policies is the end of the world. If the US adopted South Africa's policies (It's fear mongering. They won't), I don't see how the country would be any worse off than it is now. Things weren't always nice in South Africa and it isn't as simple as they make it out to be where you can put 100% of the blame on a few affirmative action policies where you need to study the history and the current conditions. It's like saying vaccines causes autism when they go based on correlation=causation, which has been known to be completely wrong.

Some countries have more extensive affirmative action and are richer than that country so I don't see how South Africa is the most unique nation in this because it's really not a new thing -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action

Basically don't believe everything you hear from the internet especially questionable communities like the one I experienced, but your choice because I said my piece and this isn't a thread about South Africa.

Thanks for letting me know. I didn't realise that a lot of things that were happening now happened before apartheid as well. I thought it was a recent issue. Didn't the government also seize land from white farmers?

 

[FGG]

I would focus on Fulton County and the statistical evidence of 90-95 % Biden votes. Those are some bright people providing unbiased evidence. Was Sterling ever asked about that? The SOS would not cooperate when repeatably asked about seeing the physical ballots. Strange. I guess we're not going to affect the outcome on this thread, that's for sure.

Do you have a time stamp for this? If not, I will come across it eventually because I plan on watching the whole thing.

 

[FGG]

There are reports on multiple outlets today that Trump is refusing to pay Giuliani. Prediction: this will be spun by some right wing news outlets as Giuliani is deep state and Trump finally woke up (and that's why Giuliani lost all those court cases...).

 

[just1morething]

There is no "outcome" on this thread.

But I will ask this, why didn't the state legislature subpoena this information? The state legislature does have this power, if they really wanted to see it so badly, why not use their authority to subpoena the physical ballots and force officials to testify?

So the guy that said "the steal is real" in the election hearings is totally bogus huh? He sounded reputable to me.

 

[just1morething]

Do you have a time stamp for this? If not, I will come across it eventually because I plan on watching the whole thing.

I thought it was Dec. 30th. Seems like the Trump haters don't even want to watch the election hearings.

 

[Lucifer]

There are reports on multiple outlets today that Trump is refusing to pay Giuliani. Prediction: this will be spun by some right wing news outlets as Giuliani is deep state and Trump finally woke up (and that's why Giuliani lost all those court cases...).

Damn, if that's true then that would be a shit way of doing business. I hope Giuliani gets paid.

 

[Born To Slay]

So the guy that said "the steal is real" in the election hearings is totally bogus huh? He sounded reputable to me.

I guess what I'm putting forward is that if he is reputable and the steal is real and the Georgia state legislature wants to get to the bottom of it, then I'm confused as to why they're acting in such a weak fashion when instead they could subpoena the physical ballots and bring the election officials they're accusing of corruption into the legislature and force them to testify under oath under threat of perjury.

The state legislature is making themselves look a lot weaker then we know they are. If they want this info, they have ways of getting it.

 

[FGG]

So the guy that said "the steal is real" in the election hearings is totally bogus huh? He sounded reputable to me.

There are people who have sworn passionately under oath in testimony to convict people who were later exonerated by DNA evidence. Judging someone based on "sounding reputable" is not enough.

 

[FGG]

I thought it was Dec. 30th. Seems like the Trump haters don't even want to watch the election hearings.

I read most of my news because listening is tiring for me with my hearing issues.

Are you saying it's not on the link you provided?

 

[Lane]

He sounded reputable to me.

A lot of people can sound reputable--until they don't. Sometimes it takes a while to catch onto someone's con, especially if it's infused with an element of charisma (which I usually view as a huge red flag). In Donald Trump's case, I've been aware of him and his con for the past 15-20 years or so, and it didn't take me long to discern that he was a man with a complete lack of morals or ethics. I just couldn't figure out why news outlets would almost breathlessly report on his latest bankruptcy, or extramarital dalliance, or his various Trump businesses, etc.

I think a big part of life is learning to discern who's being honest with you, and those who may actually be trying to do a con job on you. This is no small matter, as our culture is filled with con-people that we're constantly coming in contact with. At this time, I believe the Republican Party along with its right wing news supporters s are doing a hell of a con job on right-leaning Americans. They've done it for years, and now as almost a crowning achievement, have convinced tens of millions of people of the BIG LIE--that the 2020 election was fraudulent, and Trump actually won by a landslide. -- The lust for money and power will often see people do the most craven things. What's happening right now is a real education for anybody willing to look closely at the dark side of human nature.

 

[Jrblovsky]

Oh shit, that's cool. Long Island actually, I'm in the suburbs. About 60 miles from Manhattan by train.

Cool. When I said north I guess I should have been more specific. I live in Detroit. Been to Tonawanda and Buffalo several times. Upstate New York seems nice. I've never been to New York City or the suburbs.

 

[Lane]

Damn, if that's true then that would be a shit way of doing business.

Are you aware Trump has been cheating small business people for most of his adult life? There are so many reasons to hate what Trump does and what he stands for. But I'm surprised more attention isn't given to the multitudes of small business owners (hundreds if I remember correctly) who were stiffed by Trump and his organizations over many years. He truly is the consummate conman.

Even the pro-Trump Wall Street Journal had an article on his shabby treatment of those who contracted out to do work for his companies. Many of those businesses apparently went under from not being able to collect the rather minimal amounts of money by large corporation standards. Tens of thousands of dollars however can be a make or break proposition for small business owners. I just never understood his "populist" appeal when I hear about stuff like this.

Donald Trump's Business Plan Left a Trail of Unpaid Bills - WSJ

 

[PeteJ]

What is going on in the US? Military and National Guard is all over the place.

Trump is telling supporters to stay away, don't go to the inauguration. All real right wingers are saying to not do anything. Stay away and definitely don't bring guns if you decide to protest.

National Guard inauguration deployment: twice as large as troop levels in Afghanistan and Iraq combined

States begin activating National Guard after FBI warns of armed protests at capitols

 

[Lucifer]

I guess what I'm putting forward is that if he is reputable and the steal is real and the Georgia state legislature wants to get to the bottom of it, then I'm confused as to why they're acting in such a weak fashion when instead they could subpoena the physical ballots and bring the election officials they're accusing of corruption into the legislature and force them to testify under oath under threat of perjury.

The state legislature is making themselves look a lot weaker then we know they are. If they want this info, they have ways of getting it.

How do you know about legislation like that? Do you have a law degree?

 

[GlennS]

Lol okay dude. What state do you live in?

Sorry, I'd like to avoid death-threats.

 

[Born To Slay]

How do you know about legislation like that? Do you have a law degree?

No I don't lol, I'm going for education. I will one day have to teach a lot of this shit to kids though lol.

The ability for state legislatures to subpoena is actually very common, the National Congress can do it as well. And defying this subpoena is actually a crime and you'll be held in what's called "contempt of Congress". It's the same thing at the state level. It's also the same regarding perjury, remember how Bill Clinton got impeached it was actually because he lied under oath to congress and perjured himself by doing so.

So the reason I brought this up is because the state legislature has this power and yet they don't use it. Maybe they have a reason, I'd love to know what it is. I suspect it's because they know this is all a charade but I can't prove that.

I find the timing of the hearing to be suspicious as well, as in other states the hearing was only held after the electoral college voted on December 14th. Why is that? You'd think they'd have done this as soon as possible and come in guns ablazing and yet they really didn't.

 

[Born To Slay]

Cool. When I said north I guess I should have been more specific. I live in Detroit. Been to Tonawanda and Buffalo several times. Upstate New York seems nice. I've never been to New York City or the suburbs.

Well I don't know what your ear situation is but once one of the drugs comes out and spares us this awful existence, I do recommend coming to NYC and Long Island if you ever have the time. We have some of the most beautiful beaches and scenery on the East Coast. And the city is quite a place to visit.

I thought you meant northern NY lol, I've never been Detroit, although I do want to go. After my hyperacusis is defeated I plan to go on a serious of trips across the country and Detroit would definitely be a must.

 

[Jrblovsky]

Well I don't know what your ear situation is but once one of the drugs comes out and spares us this awful existence, I do recommend coming to NYC and Long Island if you ever have the time. We have some of the most beautiful beaches and scenery on the East Coast. And the city is quite a place to visit.

I thought you meant northern NY lol, I've never been Detroit, although I do want to go. After my hyperacusis is defeated I plan to go on a serious of trips across the country and Detroit would definitely be a must.

Northern Michigan is nice. Detroit is alright. DeToilet is unfortunately a lot of it. Downtown is cool. It's like Niagara Falls. Nice by the falls but get a few blocks away and it gets sketchy in some areas.

 

[just1morething]

There are people who have sworn passionately under oath in testimony to convict people who were later exonerated by DNA evidence. Judging someone based on "sounding reputable" is not enough.

I'm just saying that is his expertise. He said he was non-partisan and didn't have a dog in the hunt. It should be a court case with Sterling and the SOS involved. I see Sterling did have a little longer press conference with some questions being asked. He sounded kind of murky on the recorded call with Trump. I thought he said he didn't know who recorded it.

 

[Jrblovsky]

Sorry, I'd like to avoid death-threats.

You know Tim Taylor?

 

[FGG]

I'm just saying that is his expertise. He said he was non-partisan and didn't have a dog in the hunt. It should be a court case with Sterling and the SOS involved. I see Sterling did have a little longer press conference with some questions being asked. He sounded kind of murky on the recorded call with Trump. I thought he said he didn't know who recorded it.

The call wasn't with Sterling. It was with Raffensperger and his lawyer.

 

[just1morething]

The call wasn't with Sterling. It was with Raffensperger and his lawyer.

I meant Sterling's latest press conference, not the one one you sent me. It was a little longer with him taking some questions. I meant to say someone asked him about the call. I know he did not participate in it.

 

[Daniel Lion]

Kyle Rittenhouse accused of flashing white power sign at bar; prosecutors want him to stay away from Proud Boys

Kenosha shooting suspect Kyle Rittenhouse is seen in Pudgy's Pub in Mount Pleasant on Jan. 5 posing for a photo while flashing a white power sign.

 

[Born To Slay]

View attachment 42807
Kyle Rittenhouse accused of flashing white power sign at bar; prosecutors want him to stay away from Proud Boys
View attachment 42808
Kenosha shooting suspect Kyle Rittenhouse is seen in Pudgy's Pub in Mount Pleasant on Jan. 5 posing for a photo while flashing a white power sign.

What a fucking shock. Seriously, I'm just so surprised that I went into cardiac arrest and died.

 

[Lilah]

Breaking: FBI arrests Antifa member for inciting riot. Antifa was involved.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/page/file/1354781/download

 

[FGG]

Macaulay Culkin joins calls to get Donald Trump cameo removed from Home Alone 2

This is dumb and thankfully just Twitter banter but if they actually did this, I would agree that there is a problem with "cancel culture." Trump being in Home Alone 2 isn't a national security threat.