2020 US Presidential Election
- Thread starter Born To Slay
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The cop who was crushed in the doorway called it a "white nationalist insurrection". See the video below:
Longer interview here:
'I Would Have Done That For Free': DC Officer on Being Crushed Against Door During Capitol Riot
Longer interview here:
'I Would Have Done That For Free': DC Officer on Being Crushed Against Door During Capitol Riot
Speaking of hypocrisy though, the same people who are now saying the violent MAGA folks are a "few bad apples" were the ones saying every Black Lives Matter protester should be condemned.
Meanwhile, the posters in this thread on the left were always saying the looting faction of BLM should be arrested as well as the violent MAGA folks and acknowledged that not every Trump supporter is violent.
I doubt it. It's more likely we finally see the US break up into red and blue states than any significant changes to the presidential election process. Even something as simple as streamlining the process between election day and inauguration is a longshot now that Republicans see it as a partisan battleground.
How about two wrongs don't make a right?
At the same time, the fundamental difference between BLM and the rioters is that while rioting and looting are inappropriate responses, BLM was coming at things from a valid perspective of justice not being served, whereas the rioters are merely trying to subvert democracy long after all possible legal avenues were exhausted. So from the get go they simply didn't have a moral justification.
As such, yes, every stop the steal protester SHOULD be condemned. They have a right to march just as neo nazis had a right to march down Skokie, but that doesn't mean their cause was just.
- Aug 5, 2019
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Even if one wanted to say the few bad apples on both sides "offset", there is a massive difference politically. The worst you could say is that Biden doesn't condemn it enough. On the other hand, Trump actively creates it and is the brain child behind it.
It's not that the MAGA people don't know this. They choose to believe what they want to believe. If Hillary did the same thing as Trump, they would have no problem seeing it. In fact, I'm surprised they aren't blaming Hillary for Trump's behavior right now lol.
I take that back. Some are trying by bringing up the Russia investigation, which was totally different.
America seems to be deeply divided right now. I saw this video, yesterday, of Rep Lou Correa being harassed at an airport. Watch the biker guy that comes along and shouts, "who are youuuu!" to which Lou replies, "who are you,"'at this point I was fully expecting him to say "I'm Batman" with that voice of his 
. He let me down big time.
He's definitely not the brightest bulb in the box - whoever he is - judging from this. I think he expected Lou to shrivel up into a ball, and when he didn't, he simply looked like a raging idiot.
There are assholes on both sides. The extreme left and right are as bad as each other, in my opinion.
. He let me down big time.He's definitely not the brightest bulb in the box - whoever he is - judging from this. I think he expected Lou to shrivel up into a ball, and when he didn't, he simply looked like a raging idiot.
There are assholes on both sides. The extreme left and right are as bad as each other, in my opinion.
In case anyone wants to read Amazon's reasoning for shutting down Parlor, it's because they wouldn't remove directly inciting posts like this (Amazon gave them a chance to):
"Be ready to fight. Congress needs to hear glass breaking, doors being kicked in, and blood from their BLM and Pantifa slave soldiers being spilled. Get violent. Stop calling this a march, or rally, or a protest. Go there ready for war. We get our President or we die. NOTHING else will achieve this goal."
Read more here:
Filing: Amazon warned Parler for months about "more than 100" violent threats
"Be ready to fight. Congress needs to hear glass breaking, doors being kicked in, and blood from their BLM and Pantifa slave soldiers being spilled. Get violent. Stop calling this a march, or rally, or a protest. Go there ready for war. We get our President or we die. NOTHING else will achieve this goal."
Read more here:
Filing: Amazon warned Parler for months about "more than 100" violent threats
That's a good point. But people there really were just lied to. And the non-violent ones should not be lumped with the violent ones at least (unless they were among those who didn't storm the Capital but were totally fine with it).
Also, food for thought.
- Apr 30, 2018
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Yes, yes, yes, yes...!!!
And just on cue, a news article today pointing out systemic problems with police officers in the U.S. Those mentioned in the article just happened to be part of the Trump-inspired mob on the Capitol. To me, this is only the tip of the iceberg. And the iceberg is bad cops discriminating against people of color literally everywhere in the U.S, which has been going on forever. It's endemic in our society--thus BLM.
Off-duty police were part of the Capitol mob. Now police are turning in their own.
"During the chaos at the Capitol, overwhelmed police officers confronted and combated a frenzied sea of rioters who transformed the seat of democracy into a battlefield. Now police chiefs across the country are confronting the uncomfortable reality that members in their own ranks were among the mob that faced off against other law enforcement officers.
At least 13 off-duty law enforcement officials are suspected of taking part in the riot, a tally that could grow as investigators continue to pore over footage and records to identify participants. Police leaders are turning in their own to the FBI and taking the striking step of reminding officers in their departments that criminal misconduct could push them off the force and behind bars.
The reckoning within police departments comes as plans for new demonstrations this weekend and on Inauguration Day are solidifying, with authorities warning of the potential for violence in state capitals. Participants are expected to protest election results that made Joe Biden president-elect..."
At least 13 off-duty law enforcement officials are suspected of taking part in the riot, a tally that could grow as investigators continue to pore over footage and records to identify participants. Police leaders are turning in their own to the FBI and taking the striking step of reminding officers in their departments that criminal misconduct could push them off the force and behind bars.
The reckoning within police departments comes as plans for new demonstrations this weekend and on Inauguration Day are solidifying, with authorities warning of the potential for violence in state capitals. Participants are expected to protest election results that made Joe Biden president-elect..."
No, no, no, no...!!! At least not in the context of what's currently happening in this country. It's the right that's tearing this country apart, and Republican politicians and their fervent supporters are primarily to blame. Saying they're equally to blame for the current violence, threats, and chaos is simply not the case. -- The threats of violence being made against all 50 state Capitols are not coming from BLM or Antifa. They're coming from the ranks of Trump's henchmen.
@Ed209 & anybody else who may not understand the racial culture in the U.S: -- The whole election fraud drama unfolding in the U.S. is infused with racism, through and through. The votes that are being most vociferously objected to come predominantly from cities and areas that voted overwhelming for Biden. Widespread voter suppression efforts by Republicans of all stripes have been primarily aimed at people of color for decades. -- It's just one more ugly face of pervasive racism in the U.S.
Lankford Apologizes to Black Voters for Backing Trump's Election Deceit
The Oklahoma senator, who is up for re-election in 2022, said he had not realized his objection to the election results would be seen as a direct attack on the voting rights of people of color.
BLM burned districts, businesses and attacked people. They threatened diners and white people. They committed crimes while politicians paid a little lip service. Even Trump did squat.
Some clowns somehow easily took over the Capitol building in post 911 America, the most security crazy era ever. Lol. Then, it's a militarized zone. You guys should have a comedy show.
I disagree. You cannot defend anyone's atrocities, no matter how they are politically affiliated.
All I'm saying is that there are bad components to both sides. If you want unity, both sides need to work at it. I'm talking about extremes here, not your average left or right-leaning person.
Are you saying all left wing people are angels?
- Apr 30, 2018
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You missed the point of my post.
All I was trying to say is that both sides have fucked up. However, the US has always had a racism problem, so it's clear that this situation has been brewing up, like a volcano, ready to explode. And that's what's happened. The extreme-left went too far, burning down their own neighbourhoods and stuff, and the extreme-right are just brain-dead hooligans and always have been. Between all that nonsense are normal, civil people, who can work this stuff out.
The violent outbreaks are not helping anyone. They are causing further divisions. That's all I was getting at when I said there are assholes on both sides.
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And you missed the point of my post--which I tried to avoid by emphasizing and underlining "not in the context". Looks like we're even. lol
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Trump is a pro-life President buddy so it makes sense he would condemn violence. None of his other rallies had any major violence. The Proud Boys are not part of the normal civilized Trump supporters. I don't actually know what they stand for. I can see the advantages and disadvantages of both the Republican and Democratic parties. I just hope the country becomes more united. We are the United States.
Lane, all I said is that there are assholes on both sides; surely you must agree with that?
I just want to point out here that I specifically referenced the extreme-left and right. Not normal people who are centre-left or centre-right. The atrocities are caused by the extremists on both sides. This is what fuels division.
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I think we all have an asshole, whether we like it or not. That's how our creator made us.
- Aug 5, 2019
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Normally, I would agree with you, but the Trump movement is different. It's extremely imprecise to "both sides" the Trump movement.
This isn't about people just disagreeing on some policy issues. This is a party that is now run by conspiracy theories. Just 8 percent of Republicans support impeachment after he incited domestic terrorism.
"While a few Republican elected officials have broken with Trump, Republican voters are sticking with him for now," said Democratic pollster Jeff Horwitt of Hart Research Associates, who conducted this survey with Republican pollster Bill McInturff of Public Opinion Strategies.
"As we've seen over the course of his term, major event after major event does little to shake Trump's standing with Republicans," Horwitt added.
The same article points out that the numbers for impeachment over the Ukraine scandal were similar. In my opinion, the Capitol Insurrection was a million times worse."As we've seen over the course of his term, major event after major event does little to shake Trump's standing with Republicans," Horwitt added.
Even run-of-the-mill conservatives (non-extremists) are very open-minded to the election fraud conspiracies. They usually accept Biden enough to not want to commit acts of violence, but they believe the steal is real.
I feel I've been taken completely out of context. I despise the Trump movement, and can see how he's led a lot of people down the garden path. The man is a baffoon, there's no doubting that. The way he told people to rise up and fight for their country, or they wouldn't have one, clearly incited riots. If I lived in the US, I'd have voted Democrat. I'm also aware of the long-standing racial tensions that have always been there.
All I was saying is that the extreme left are no angels. They have also caused a significant amount of damage. They burned down businesses and other essential places in the some of the poorest neighbourhoods, and this affected the people they should have been protecting the most. It's like they were cutting off their nose to spite their face. I saw business owners in tears begging people not to loot and/or burn down their their stores. I fail to see how these actions helped anyone.
This is what I meant when I said the extreme-left are as bad as the extreme-right. Both are deplorable in my eyes. These extremist views will never help the common man, they just breed more contempt, and fuel further division.
This is why I don't really talk about politics all that much. The partisan nature of it all often means that nobody ever agrees to anything. I'll leave it for everyone else to discuss. There was no offence intended.
Please stay. It's great to have more opinions. But some of us might ask you to clarify if that's ok.
- Aug 5, 2019
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I agree with most of what you said. The context behind this thread is that there are a number of people who are really open-minded to the conspiracies and looking to pin every Trump problem on the left. If this thread was an even balance between liberals and hardcore anti-Trump conservatives, I believe my views would be more balanced.
Not that they need to be. I don't believe that being a "centrist" makes one the most objective. I just happen to hold centrist viewpoints on a number of topics.
However, I'm being pushed significantly to the left after being denied disability. To put a long story short, I am very, very disabled and have been for a long time. In my disability denial, they said that I'm not that disabled and that I could hold a job. It's so inhumane, and all because we are frightened of "incorrectly" giving disabled people too much money, while not giving a rip about overpaying a rich person. This kind of stuff pushes me to the left. I have a friend in a similar circumstance. Knowing how common this is pushes me left.
Otherwise, I'm center left on most topics -- pretty much dead center on the police stuff. I think I have a softer spot for police officers than most people on the left. But I also understand the history of the country with regards to racism and oppression.
I hear you, Zug. I had a student who became a good friend of mine who had Friedrichs Ataxia. It was so sad to see her decline, and yet her spirit was unbelievable. She was always so full of life. It killed me to see our government make her jump through hoops just to get her benefits. She had to go for regular checks so they could see what she was physically capable of. It was appallingly bad. The moment they knew she had Friedrichs Ataxia, they should have given her unconditional benefits for life. I mean she was slowly losing control of her body and was becoming more and more paralysed, what more do they want? Her heart weakened to a point that she died a couple of years ago. It was really tragic.
What I'll never forget is that she messaged me when I was at my lowest, asking if I was ok and offered support. About an hour later, her mom messaged me to ask if she had been in touch, and I said "yea" thinking nothing of it. She then told me that she was critically ill in hospital and they didn't know if she'd make it through the week. The floor could have just fallen away from me, it hit me that hard. In that moment, I realised that whilst she was offering me help, she was literally on death's-door and never mentioned it once.
So, yea, I understand how inhumane and cold the benefits system can be.
