2020 US Presidential Election

[Zugzug]

@Zugzug -- I agree with you totally on Bush. However, I have to say I kind of liked the guy (even more so since Trump), and besides not being a divider, my sense was Bush didn't have a racist bone in his body. But that Obama? Oooh my, was he a divider!! But he couldn't help it; I'm pretty certain it had mostly to do with the color of his skin--and the fact he was a Muslim--and the fact he was born in Africa--and, and, and....

I could be wrong (maybe I am conned), but Bush doesn't strike me as a particularly immoral dude. I always thought Cheney was the smart and immoral one and Bush was just kind of an idiot. I have these opinions based on the movie "Vice" that I saw years ago. In that movie, they portray Bush was the dumbest human being to ever exist. Cheney knew what he was doing and had oil and money signs in his eyes.

 

[Luman]

Come on, are you serious?

Why do you think the US got the world in a war against Irak using made up fake claims about the existence of "weapons of mass destruction" that were never found?

Trump's plan to seize Iraq's oil: 'It's not stealing, we're reimbursing ourselves'

This article is more than 4 years old.

Strategy of taking oil in Iraq and from areas controlled by Isis presents huge issues from almost every angle and 'would amount to a war crime', experts say

'

Trump simply suggested that Iraq help reimburse the United States financially for our help in deposing Sadaam, and that oil as payment would be a good way to do it. They have more oil than the Eskimos have ice. I said the same thing, years ago. Our military people gave their lives for the Iraqi's and it was not done for profit or malicious reasons. We should have been paid in oil. It never happened, so there's no point in blaming Trump.

We spend over 81 billion dollars a year, protecting oil rich countries. That's our tax money, and our own military pays top dollar for gas, for use in the countries they are protecting. It's sickening:

US spends $81 billion a year to protect global oil supplies, report estimates

Old story, but still true:

U.S. military pays top dollar for fuel in oil-rich war zone

 

[Juan]

Trump simply suggested that Iraq help reimburse the United States financially for our help in deposing Sadaam, and that oil as payment would be a good way to do it. They have more oil than the Eskimos have ice. I said the same thing, years ago. Our military people gave their lives for the Iraqi's and it was not done for profit or malicious reasons. We should have been paid in oil. It never happened, so there's no point in blaming Trump.

We spend over 81 billion dollars a year, protecting oil rich countries. That's our tax money, and our own military pays top dollar for gas, for use in the countries they are protecting. It's sickening:

US spends $81 billion a year to protect global oil supplies, report estimates

Old story, but still true:

U.S. military pays top dollar for fuel in oil-rich war zone

Hahahha the US invaded and massively bombed a foreing country on false allegations about the existence of weapons of mass destruction that were never found. The US bombed Irak for years, stole their oil, and now wants to be reimbursed about it? Are you joking or what?

Other countries did NOT want to get into the Irak war and were pushed by the US and by corrupt local politicians.

Actually in Spain people demonstrated against Spain's involvement in the Irak war, we did NOT want to be there, but that fool of Aznar, the then president, partnered up with the US and Tony Blair to get us into this mess.

As a result we suffered an islamic terrorist attack in Madrid where 200 people lost their lives, and this happened in retaliation for Spain's involvement in the Irak war.

 

[TeeOh]

And that comes from the country who constantly feels the need of bombing other places...

Where were the weapons of mass destruction in Irak? Nowhere. It was made up by the US government to steal oil in the Middle East.

As a result of the Irak war now the world is threatened by Islamic terrorism.

You forgot this huge list of lies and atrocities:

https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md

This article was last year, but there was no peace time so it actually adds to the current war mongering streak:

The US Has Been at war 225 out of 243 years since 1776

 

[Lane]

You forgot this huge list of lies and atrocities:

https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md

This article was last year, but there was no peace time so it actually adds to the current war mongering streak:

The US Has Been at war 225 out of 243 years since 1776

@TeeOh -- Looking at things from perhaps a bigger picture, what you posted above reminds me of karma. Most people are familiar with personal karma, but few realize there's such a thing a national karma as well. What goes around comes around. Goes for nations as well as individuals.

 

[just1morething]

TRUMP LANE

 

[PeteJ]

I could be wrong (maybe I am conned), but Bush doesn't strike me as a particularly immoral dude. I always thought Cheney was the smart and immoral one and Bush was just kind of an idiot. I have these opinions based on the movie "Vice" that I saw years ago. In that movie, they portray Bush was the dumbest human being to ever exist. Cheney knew what he was doing and had oil and money signs in his eyes.

It figures that most of you get your info from movies. Not supporting Bush but many in this forum on these topics show repeatedly that they do no research at all.

 

[just1morething]

@Born To Slay, @Lane, @Juan

 

[Born To Slay]

@Born To Slay, @Lane, @Juan

View attachment 43621

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here but whatever the message is, I'm pretty sure you are the same way with your press like OAN and Newsmax.

I hope you are doing well today btw.

 

[JimR]

My thoughts. I really like Jimmy Kimmel, but I haven't watched since about 2017, and won't watch till probably next year. The 'noise' has been unbearable, and I am much happier without.

 

[Zugzug]

My thoughts. I really like Jimmy Kimmel, but I haven't watched since about 2017, and won't watch till probably next year. The 'noise' has been unbearable, and I am much happier without.

For whatever reason, I've never found Kimmel to be that funny and it has nothing to do with the topics he chooses, as I hate Trump. I find Colbert, Noah, Seth Meyers, Maher to be funnier. Maher actually says things that make sense sometimes.

Sorry about the tinnitus.

 

[Lurius]

For whatever reason, I've never found Kimmel to be that funny and it has nothing to do with the topics he chooses, as I hate Trump. I find Colbert, Noah, Seth Meyers, Maher to be funnier. Maher actually says things that make sense sometimes.

Sorry about the tinnitus.

I don't particularly like Kimmel either, but that thing he had with "Celebrities read mean tweets" is seriously the funniest thing I've ever found on YouTube. It still cracks me up after all these years.

 

[Born To Slay]

For whatever reason, I've never found Kimmel to be that funny and it has nothing to do with the topics he chooses, as I hate Trump. I find Colbert, Noah, Seth Meyers, Maher to be funnier. Maher actually says things that make sense sometimes.

Sorry about the tinnitus.

What do you think of John Oliver?

 

[FGG]

For whatever reason, I've never found Kimmel to be that funny and it has nothing to do with the topics he chooses, as I hate Trump. I find Colbert, Noah, Seth Meyers, Maher to be funnier. Maher actually says things that make sense sometimes.

Sorry about the tinnitus.

I find him pretty corny myself.

 

[Zugzug]

What do you think of John Oliver?

Oliver is a little like Maher (their personalities aren't that similar) in that he's sort of an insightful comedian, as opposed to Seth Meyers who just sort of makes me laugh. Admittedly, I haven't watched as much comedy because a lot of the comedic value is lost without sound.

I like Maher because he's a no bullshit about religion. His political takes are okay; he leans a little bit on the shill side, but I like that he's anti-woke.

 

[just1morething]

Kimmel always protects the Democrats, even though he has plenty of joking material to use about them, especially Biden.

 

[Lurius]

Oliver is a little like Maher (their personalities aren't that similar) in that he's sort of an insightful comedian, as opposed to Seth Meyers who just sort of makes me laugh. Admittedly, I haven't watched as much comedy because a lot of the comedic value is lost without sound.

I like Maher because he's a no bullshit about religion. His political takes are okay; he leans a little bit on the shill side, but I like that he's anti-woke.

I think it's interesting that you say you like him being anti-woke. I haven't been reading this thread extremely closely, but I've picked up on the fact that you dont like Trump. I don't like Trump, Ben Shapiro or Marjorie Taylor Greene at all, but I also despise the woke movement, cancel culture, identity politics and the debacle around cultural appropriation. I consider myself a bit of a moderate, mostly because the current political spectrum is extremely hard to navigate properly. I'm starting to feel like we might agree on a lot of things.

 

[Zugzug]

I think it's interesting that you say you like him being anti-woke. I haven't been reading this thread extremely closely, but I've picked up on the fact that you dont like Trump. I don't like Trump, Ben Shapiro or Marjorie Taylor Greene at all, but I also despise the woke movement, cancel culture, identity politics and the debacle around cultural appropriation. I consider myself a bit of a moderate, mostly because the current political spectrum is extremely hard to navigate properly. I'm starting to feel like we might agree on a lot of things.

Yeah, I think actually, you are touching on one of the very reasons why I hate the conservative movement so much. Everyone is tired of identity politics and most people agree that the MSM does not best represent the common citizen well.

It's so disturbing to me that they pick characters like Trump, Shapiro, Carlson as like a "pushback" against the white privilege narrative. It drives me nuts; Trump only exists as a white man with a Christian background. Conservatives are making a fool out of themselves by "disproving the myth of white privilege" with Trump. They always roll their eyes at racism, but they basically pray to someone who's actually a racist. Lol.

As far as Shapiro, he also makes a mockery out of "facts over feelings" by basing all of his opinions on feelings like being "oppressed" and losing the culture war because a transgender person kindly asked him to use the pronoun they prefer. Shapiro turns around and is like "OMG they are MAKING me call them something I don't want to. WhAt AbOuT LiBeRtY?" It's a joke. We do this every day when we call people by their names or the pronouns of cisgender people. But he frames it as oppression.

Or the fact that they pick a professional liar with a cult following to push back against dishonesty lmao.

For me, the PC stuff goes a little too far, but all of the exactly wrong people are calling it out.

 

[Zugzug]

I almost fell for right wing propaganda so I am posting this to help others.

The "Dr. Seuss scandal," which right wingers are portraying as an attack on liberty is really a company deciding on their own volition to stop circulation of 6 books out of many because of insensitive portrayals of certain minorities.

Right wing media is dishonestly portraying this as Biden's presidency. In reality, they don't want us to see that they oppose relief for COVID-19 and want to increase voter suppression by blocking H.R. 1.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy tried to tie together the "Dr. Seuss scandal" and "Democrats want dead people and illegal immigrants to vote" in a speech on the House floor.

We've gone over this a number of times in this thread, but it's a reminder:

• People receiving multiple ballots is uncommon, but happens, for reasons such as changing addressees.
• There are tons of safeguards against voting twice. In other words, even if someone does receive multiple ballots, there is still nothing to worry about.

Don't fall for it. Sometimes I want to because I can't believe a group can be so dishonest, but I'm routinely proven wrong.

 

[FGG]

I almost fell for right wing propaganda so I am posting this to help others.

The "Dr. Seuss scandal," which right wingers are portraying as an attack on liberty is really a company deciding on their own volition to stop circulation of 6 books out of many because of insensitive portrayals of certain minorities.

Right wing media is dishonestly portraying this as Biden's presidency. In reality, they don't want us to see that they oppose relief for COVID-19 and want to increase voter suppression by blocking H.R. 1.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy tried to tie together the "Dr. Seuss scandal" and "Democrats want dead people and illegal immigrants to vote" in a speech on the House floor.

We've gone over this a number of times in this thread, but it's a reminder:

• People receiving multiple ballots is uncommon, but happens, for reasons such as changing addressees.
• There are tons of safeguards against voting twice. In other words, even if someone does receive multiple ballots, there is still nothing to worry about.

Don't fall for it. Sometimes I want to because I can't believe a group can be so dishonest, but I'm routinely proven wrong.

The books the publisher (on their own) decided to scrap were also underperforming books and felt the depictions didn't match their values as a company.

No one made them do that, though. There was no "anti Dr. Seuss" movement before this. The GOP is just using people's feelings about the idea of "cancel culture" to manipulate them and as you have mentioned, it's a diversion tactic so people talk about that instead of the fact that every single Republican voted against the COVID-19 relief bill.

Trying to dominate the news cycle with b.s. like this is just part of the GOP playbook now. No matter how tenuous the connection is.

Would be like when my (very Baptist aunt) wouldn't let me watch the movie we had rented when I was a kid, The Black Cauldron, because "witches use cauldrons and witches are against the Bible..." Obviously, the Disney movie didn't jive with my Aunt's values but as this was during Reagan's presidency, I guess I can blame Republicans for the canceling of my movie watching.

 

[Born To Slay]

I almost fell for right wing propaganda so I am posting this to help others.

The "Dr. Seuss scandal," which right wingers are portraying as an attack on liberty is really a company deciding on their own volition to stop circulation of 6 books out of many because of insensitive portrayals of certain minorities.

Right wing media is dishonestly portraying this as Biden's presidency. In reality, they don't want us to see that they oppose relief for COVID-19 and want to increase voter suppression by blocking H.R. 1.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy tried to tie together the "Dr. Seuss scandal" and "Democrats want dead people and illegal immigrants to vote" in a speech on the House floor.

We've gone over this a number of times in this thread, but it's a reminder:

• People receiving multiple ballots is uncommon, but happens, for reasons such as changing addressees.
• There are tons of safeguards against voting twice. In other words, even if someone does receive multiple ballots, there is still nothing to worry about.

Don't fall for it. Sometimes I want to because I can't believe a group can be so dishonest, but I'm routinely proven wrong.

Yeah Democrats really need to work on messaging, the Republicans are really great at this. They have America thinking Dr. Seuss is cancelled.

 

[Zugzug]

Would be like when my (very Baptist aunt) wouldn't let me watch the movie we had rented when I was a kid, The Black Cauldron, because "witches use cauldrons and witches are against the Bible..." Obviously, the Disney movie didn't jive with my Aunt's values but as this was during Reagan's presidency, I guess I can blame Republicans for the canceling of my movie watching.

Haha, that reminds me of a story in my own life. As kids, we used to play Magic The Gathering. One of our friend's stepdad was super religious and he offered our friend some large amount of money to burn the cards.

More on right wing cultural war hypocrisy: Didn't a number of religious parents have problems with their kids reading Harry Potter because of the magic?

The culture war stuff is so overblown. Even the "Mr. Potato Head" changing to "Potato Head" is mostly because the company sold lots of potato heads so it was smart from a marketing perspective to brand it that way.

What I really can't stand about all of this is that they pray to markets and this concept that corporations deserve more freedom than human beings. Then when one exercises that freedom and it works against them, they hate it. It's extremely pathetic.

 

[Zugzug]

Arkansas Passes Near-Total Abortion Ban - And A Possible 'Roe V. Wade' Test

Several things to note from the article:

• This law, which is essentially saying the only time abortion is valid is if the mother's health is in danger, is an extreme protest against Roe V. Wade. Governor Hutchinson even says that the goal is to take the (anticipated) rejection to the Supreme Court.
• In the bill, called Senate Bill 6, the very first line says the following:
  • a) The General Assembly finds that: 2 (1) It is time for the United States Supreme Court to redress 3 and correct the grave injustice and the crime against humanity which is being 4 perpetuated by its decisions in Roe v. Wade, Doe v. Bolton, and Planned 5 Parenthood v. Casey;
  • To fluff up the bill, they throw in grave injustices against African Americans like the Dred Scott decision.
• The bill does not allow exceptions for rape or incest. Governor Hutchinson says this is a "mistake," but passes it anyways.
• Similar attempts at the local level have been tried in Ohio, Georgia, and Alabama over the past two years, all failing at the federal courts.
• Abortion activist groups like the American Civil Liberties Union in Arkansas are gearing up to fight it in court.

My opinion: What the fuck? So a woman who was raped and gets an abortion can face a felony and up to a $100,000 fine and up to 10 years in prison? Or even worse, if she got pregnant because she was raped by a family member? Wow.

It will probably go no where, but it's still scary to think that this issue is treated this way anywhere in America. My god, I thought everyone at least agreed that rape and incest are game changers. Apparently not.

 

[Born To Slay]

Arkansas Passes Near-Total Abortion Ban - And A Possible 'Roe V. Wade' Test

Several things to note from the article:

• This law, which is essentially saying the only time abortion is valid is if the mother's health is in danger, is an extreme protest against Roe V. Wade. Governor Hutchinson even says that the goal is to take the (anticipated) rejection to the Supreme Court.
• In the bill, called Senate Bill 6, the very first line says the following:
  • a) The General Assembly finds that: 2 (1) It is time for the United States Supreme Court to redress 3 and correct the grave injustice and the crime against humanity which is being 4 perpetuated by its decisions in Roe v. Wade, Doe v. Bolton, and Planned 5 Parenthood v. Casey;
  • To fluff up the bill, they throw in grave injustices against African Americans like the Dred Scott decision.
• The bill does not allow exceptions for rape or incest. Governor Hutchinson says this is a "mistake," but passes it anyways.
• Similar attempts at the local level have been tried in Ohio, Georgia, and Alabama over the past two years, all failing at the federal courts.
• Abortion activist groups like the American Civil Liberties Union in Arkansas are gearing up to fight it in court.

My opinion: What the fuck? So a woman who was raped and gets an abortion can face a felony and up to a $100,000 fine and up to 10 years in prison? Or even worse, if she got pregnant because she was raped by a family member? Wow.

It will probably go no where, but it's still scary to think that this issue is treated this way anywhere in America. My god, I thought everyone at least agreed that rape and incest are game changers. Apparently not.

I wouldn't be so sure about going no where. Trump stacked the judiciary at all levels, most notably the Supreme Court.

It'll likely be struck down but if they appeal it to a higher court and they over turn the strike down political grounds (they'd obviously look for a judge sympathetic to them), the Supreme Court could very well hear the case and they'd have two ways of ending Roe. They could either take the case or they could not take the case and leave the lower court ruling intact, effectively ending Roe even if it's technically still the law of the land.

Now if they can't find a higher court to over rule the lower court strike down, then the Supreme Court will have to accept it if they want to end Roe. But if a lower court does break precedent and the Supreme Court refuses to hear the case then abortion rights are screwed. Remember it takes 4 justices to hear a case, the liberals only have 3, so the liberals alone can't take the case if a lower court decides "fuck Roe v Wade" and rules with the state of Arkansas.

If this occurs, Biden will be put in a very awkward position because Roe v Wade would still technically be the law of the land but the courts said it was okay to break the law. Would Biden have the authority to send in The National Guard and enforce the federal law even if a federal judge said breaking it is okay? It opens a lot of legal questions for sure. And of course the Supreme Court could just kill Roe, they have the votes if they want to.

 

[Zugzug]

I wouldn't be so sure about going no where. Trump stacked the judiciary at all levels, most notably the Supreme Court.

It'll likely be struck down but if they appeal it to a higher court and they over turn the strike down political grounds (they'd obviously look for a judge sympathetic to them), the Supreme Court could very well hear the case and they'd have two ways of ending Roe. They could either take the case or they could not take the case and leave the lower court ruling intact, effectively ending Roe even if it's technically still the law of the land.

Now if they can't find a higher court to over rule the lower court strike down, then the Supreme Court will have to accept it if they want to end Roe. But if a lower court does break precedent and the Supreme Court refuses to hear the case then abortion rights are screwed. Remember it takes 4 justices to hear a case, the liberals only have 3, so the liberals alone can't take the case if a lower court decides "fuck Roe v Wade" and rules with the state of Arkansas.

If this occurs, Biden will be put in a very awkward position because Roe v Wade would still technically be the law of the land but the courts said it was okay to break the law. Would Biden have the authority to send in The National Guard and enforce the federal law even if a federal judge said breaking it is okay? It opens a lot of legal questions for sure. And of course the Supreme Court could just kill Roe, they have the votes if they want to.

I think Kavanaugh and ACB may be less of conservative shills than we originally thought. I'm sort of confused why, even just from a strategy standpoint, they didn't include rape and incest exceptions if they were really trying to overturn Roe V. Wade. Is it really realistic that this will slide all the way the Supreme Court and be deemed constitutional?

 

[Born To Slay]

I think Kavanaugh and ACB may be less of conservative shills than we originally thought. I'm sort of confused why, even just from a strategy standpoint, they didn't include rape and incest exceptions if they were really trying to overturn Roe V. Wade. Is it really realistic that this will slide all the way the Supreme Court and be deemed constitutional?

It wouldn't be the first case to be over turned. The federal judiciary is very heavily stacked against us because Mitch McConnell blocked Obama from appointing judges, meaning that every vacancy open since 2014 was filled by Trump. That's massive. And that's not counting the old judges appointed by Bush.

All you have to do see how easy it is to get a major case to the Supreme Court is to look at Texas' case on the ACA that's pending. That case is a fucking joke. One of the worst crafted legal arguments in modern history and yet partisan judges got it to the Supreme Court.

This isn't to say Roe is doomed. But I'd give it a 66-70% chance of survival, the Republicans are in there strongest position ever to kill Roe.

 

[Zugzug]

It wouldn't be the first case to be over turned. The federal judiciary is very heavily stacked against us because Mitch McConnell blocked Obama from appointing judges, meaning that every vacancy open since 2014 was filled by Trump. That's massive. And that's not counting the old judges appointed by Bush.

All you have to do see how easy it is to get a major case to the Supreme Court is to look at Texas' case on the ACA that's pending. That case is a fucking joke. One of the worst crafted legal arguments in modern history and yet partisan judges got it to the Supreme Court.

This isn't to say Roe is doomed. But I'd give it a 66-70% chance of survival, the Republicans are in there strongest position ever to kill Roe.

I see what you're saying. When I saw that they didn't bother to make exceptions for rape or incest, my thought was that either they are just dismissive of how much that affects the chances of passing it through or that, like you say, the courts are so primed for it that they think the extreme version has a chance. Pass or fail, it's not a good thing.

 

[Born To Slay]

I see what you're saying. When I saw that they didn't bother to make exceptions for rape or incest, my thought was that either they are just dismissive of how much that affects the chances of passing it through or that, like you say, the courts are so primed for it that they think the extreme version has a chance. Pass or fail, it's not a good thing.

The extreme portion is just pandering to the base, it's long been a conservative goal to get rid of rape and incest protections.

 

[FGG]

The extreme portion is just pandering to the base, it's long been a conservative goal to get rid of rape and incest protections.

I can see this. They don't want to live in a world where selective abortion access could implicate men (sometimes falsely and sometimes not).

 

[FGG]

Just curious, but do the pro-lifers agree with the punishments laid out in the Arkansas bill?

Up to 10 years and jail and $100,000 fine for women who have an illegal abortion if outlawed.