Member- Aug 14, 2013
- 2,455
- Tinnitus Since
- Resolved since 2016
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknown (medication, head injury)
Not a problem for me. I like controversial subjects. And I have been known, myself, for adding "fuel to the fire" in the past...
All Things Are Possible to Him Who Believes.
- Thread starter Joe P. Tamborra
- Start date
- Mar 27, 2015
- 277
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- No clue - too many causes.
Edge: I can't read the table of the various slaughters and I don't need to. All religions appeared in an attempt to control the masses. ISIS, Catholism, all the sects, extremists groups reach out for tithing (in a time when there are endless poor) for conversion and I'm sure this is a list that continues. With Catholism came many wars and, to be fair, in WWII under Mussolini's reign, the church protected many Jews running from Hitler. But overall, their massacres likely beat the number of those saved.
Teri: You can't beat Mother Teresa (not even with Doris Day ). She was a good person to her bones, I believe. But I also think she could've done it even without being religious but that's really not relevant. She really deserves to be honored based on what we all know about her.
Teri: You can't beat Mother Teresa (not even with Doris Day
). She was a good person to her bones, I believe. But I also think she could've done it even without being religious but that's really not relevant. She really deserves to be honored based on what we all know about her.astronomer
Member
- Nov 2, 2013
- 118
- Tinnitus Since
- april 12/2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- noise induced ( factory/rock band )
I agree, @Brianna. I honestly did not know much about her until I read her book recently which is mostly quotes of her powerful messages. I could never do the work she did. The stench of death and poverty must have been so overwhelming and she worked so hard...even in her 80's! YIKES! Folks who worked with her stated that there was an aura of peace about her. When you spoke to her, she looked intently at you...never being distracted...as if you were the only person in the room. When she spoke, her messages are so dang simple but so very powerful.
Guys I don't think you got the REASON for this thread. It wasn't meant as a debate. It was meant to bring hope to those in need. I don't think its fair to Joe to be debating this on hear. All it dose is cause trouble and turn the positiveness of this thread into negativity. That's not fair for those who believe. It takes away there hope and makes them angry.Why not debate this on a sight for debates? Aunistly, it almost look like some of you just want to start something hear and you have. Please leave Joe alone. I'm not seeing the believers on hear being mean to him. So if there arnt but some non believers are, who's really the "evel" ones hear? The believers and there kind words, or the non believers and there nasty ones?
- Mar 27, 2015
- 277
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- No clue - too many causes.
Wow, Teri, I watched her actions and so admired her. That's why, while I'm not pro-power of the Church, she made Sainthood. I'm glad you read a book about her. What a woman.
Shadgirl: The problem I have on this particular thread is it's open for everyone, no matter what our belief and that's fine. But when I'm knocked with a statement like this, "Honest I think the nonbelievers long for God but there own egos and pride get in the way," I will respond in an appropriate way. It's not a debate and I cannot debate religion - it's a waste of typing.
When you and other believers are here and comments are above board (and this is a tinnitus forum), my responses are respectful. Everyone has a right to believe what they want and not be called demeaning names because our beliefs are different ... ego and pride keeps folks from believing is condescending and ignorant (and ignorant is not derogatory - certainly not here). I still remember David from an earlier thread. He's religious and there wasn't one iota of name-calling in his posts. I like him and he's not pushy - he quoted passages from the bible - and it was just a very different flavor of posting that he did.
Shadgirl: The problem I have on this particular thread is it's open for everyone, no matter what our belief and that's fine. But when I'm knocked with a statement like this, "Honest I think the nonbelievers long for God but there own egos and pride get in the way," I will respond in an appropriate way. It's not a debate and I cannot debate religion - it's a waste of typing.
When you and other believers are here and comments are above board (and this is a tinnitus forum), my responses are respectful. Everyone has a right to believe what they want and not be called demeaning names because our beliefs are different ... ego and pride keeps folks from believing is condescending and ignorant (and ignorant is not derogatory - certainly not here). I still remember David from an earlier thread. He's religious and there wasn't one iota of name-calling in his posts. I like him and he's not pushy - he quoted passages from the bible - and it was just a very different flavor of posting that he did.
Oh, I would never include you as one of the people referred to in the quote by Christopher Hitchens.
But it is perhaps worthwhile to take note of some of the key words mentioned within his quote such as "conclusive evidence" for instance. "Conclusive evidence" means it is not a point of discussion but rather a fact. And as someone who prefers facts, I should also like to point out the following figures which has the number of deaths estimated due to the larger religious wars having been fought over the centuries:
View attachment 6341
Even if a person goes by the lower estimate, there still have been some seven million people slaughtered in the name of God. The attentive reader will of course take note of the fact that two of those wars were fought as recently as our very own generation!
More recently, the ultra extremist religious group ISIS "decided" to burn a man alive (in a cage). In the interest of documenting the facts I would be "happy" to post a picture of the event here, but the picture makes me sick to the very core of my soul - and I am not someone who is easily offended (that's for sure!). The counter argument to the burning of the pilot and ISIS would be that they, ISIS, are indeed ultra extremists. That may be so, but let's just remind ourselves that burning people alive "on the stakes" was what The Church has practiced frequently in the past for crimes such as heresy. "Heresy" of course is/was nothing but having an opinion different to that of the church. And people were burned for that? Alive?!? And without a proper trial - and which consisted of confession using torture (= "Holy Inquisition")?!? And we call western religion civilized? I thought the church was meant to be a place of caring for the weak and fragile (among other things)? Shall I post that picture of the burning pilot?
The following is a quote from Wikipedia from its page on the author, Mr. Sam Harris:
The above is an attempt to bring some facts to the discussion. I do like facts, because unlike opinions, they cannot be disputed.
And very lastly, and for the record (i.e. facts), here is a list of torture devices and methods employed by the Roman Catholic Church throughout the various periods of existence (or "rule" I should say...):
The above devices are probably best "appreciated" with an accompanying picture - I leave the interested reader to track that down. However, one thing is clear: The Church was seemingly as busy being creative with regards to how best to torture people as it was doing the service of God.
- The Rack
- The Stocks
- Water Torture
- The Heretics Fork
- The Pear
- The Branks
- The Wheel
- The Breast Ripper
- Hanging cages
- The Garotte
- The Head Crusher
- Burnt at the Stake
- The Iron Maiden
- The Strappado
- The Boots
- Judas Cradle
- The Guillotine
attheedgeofscience
04/MAY/2015.
I was reluctant to pull documented facts out of my arsenal ateos until I had looked at dear old Joe's response and as it was full of bible quotes and no real argument I decided to stay clear of unloading my full clip so to speak and only lightly touch on the subject!
I am kinda glad you, (as I would expect by someone as knowledgeable as yourself), pulled those facts and figures out as if one was to full on debate with all evidence available, it wouldn't leave much more to question really!
brianna if my words offended you that was not my intention so I apologise,but I don't appreciate being called ingnorant I can assure you I'm not.if you read my last statement you will see that I said you have more than enough strength to deal with t yourself wether you believe in God or not I'm am just pointing out what has helped me And am not pushing my views on anyone.Let me try to put it another way I think each of us wants more meaning to life and God in MY OWN experience if you let him will give you his grace.Grace is something that surpasses all human understanding it's a peace that only God can give you it's hard to explain unless you have experienced it.
Sure we can attain our own peace by being in nature,a walk by the sea,meditation loads of other ways and that's great and works for most of us including myself.
I think my post overall was a positive one but that has been overlooked.
I wasn't brought up religious at all but it was always there in the background.I know a lot of people have have a problem with the church I do if I'm honest some of silly dogmas,silly hats and the bad things they have done in the past But it's true source of power are it's sacraments and Eucharist,those I believe in the rest ,dogmas etc not so much.
I guess it comes back to experience overall my journey of faith has been positive unless you have lived it yourself you can not have a first hand opinion the Same way I can not have an opinion on something like DMT I've never experienced it so cannot give an opinion of what's it's like.
But what I will say is that I have seen and experienced lot of things in my life that defy my own logic and lead to believe in something beyond this world,again this just my opinion
At the end the end of the day Im human,I make mistakes say wrong things and just because I have a faith I doesn't make me peferct far from it I struggle just like everyone else if they believe in God or not and wish we could all get on regardless of what we believe,we all want the same thing,peace.especially from t.
will not be posting on this thread again if you want to message me by all means pm me.
Sure we can attain our own peace by being in nature,a walk by the sea,meditation loads of other ways and that's great and works for most of us including myself.
I think my post overall was a positive one but that has been overlooked.
I wasn't brought up religious at all but it was always there in the background.I know a lot of people have have a problem with the church I do if I'm honest some of silly dogmas,silly hats and the bad things they have done in the past But it's true source of power are it's sacraments and Eucharist,those I believe in the rest ,dogmas etc not so much.
I guess it comes back to experience overall my journey of faith has been positive unless you have lived it yourself you can not have a first hand opinion the Same way I can not have an opinion on something like DMT I've never experienced it so cannot give an opinion of what's it's like.
But what I will say is that I have seen and experienced lot of things in my life that defy my own logic and lead to believe in something beyond this world,again this just my opinion
At the end the end of the day Im human,I make mistakes say wrong things and just because I have a faith I doesn't make me peferct far from it I struggle just like everyone else if they believe in God or not and wish we could all get on regardless of what we believe,we all want the same thing,peace.especially from t.
will not be posting on this thread again if you want to message me by all means pm me.
- Mar 27, 2015
- 277
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- No clue - too many causes.
No need to send you an individual note. I'm counting on the very human part of you to check the thread. If you don't, c'est la vie.
There's no reason for you not to be in this thread. In your posting, I pulled one remark and made a comment about it. Last year or the year before, I would've dropped responding. There are few attacks here. It's a worthwhile thread for those who would like to believe.
I wish I could say I am sorry about my comment but I'm not. Ignorant doesn't equate to stupid and that you are not. Speaking for millions of people in one simple sentence yes, it was offensive, but so what?
This isn't a debate topic. It's people expressing their opinion. At any rate, I hope you come back on Shaun.
As we see the evolution of thought within the U.S., there is, obviously, an apparent regression from the traditional foundation upon which our forefathers sought to establish their New World. Since their day, when most colleges were constructed by Christian men and organizations, liberalism has progressively influenced students.
For many years now, college students have been dealt a taste of many of those isms that influenced thought away from God and into a movement that today is known as postmodernism. Those isms that tripped many include, but are not limited to, existentialism, nihilism, determinism, pollyannaism, agnosticism, atheism, marxism, darwinism, facsism....and the list goes on and on.
The continuing progression of the above philosophies has led this country to the overwhelming sense of abandonment by God to some, especially those who believe or once believed in Him. For those who refused to believe, found it hard to believe, or don't really care one way or the other, there still remain voices they are hearing and that are taking root in their hearts, for none of us are without influences.
There is an atheist movement today led by writers, one of whom calls God a delusion. He is one of the many stumbling blocks in the way of the person who could hear that still small voice of God. Instead ears are turned toward those who deny the existence of such stabilizing spiritual truths as the existence of sin, godliness, accountability, eternity, and destiny.
What ism anyone has hopped on has a destination, believe it or not. So beware, "there is a way that seems right unto a man, but the end thereof is the way of death."
"All we, like sheep, have gone astray. We have turned, every one, to his own way."
For many years now, college students have been dealt a taste of many of those isms that influenced thought away from God and into a movement that today is known as postmodernism. Those isms that tripped many include, but are not limited to, existentialism, nihilism, determinism, pollyannaism, agnosticism, atheism, marxism, darwinism, facsism....and the list goes on and on.
The continuing progression of the above philosophies has led this country to the overwhelming sense of abandonment by God to some, especially those who believe or once believed in Him. For those who refused to believe, found it hard to believe, or don't really care one way or the other, there still remain voices they are hearing and that are taking root in their hearts, for none of us are without influences.
There is an atheist movement today led by writers, one of whom calls God a delusion. He is one of the many stumbling blocks in the way of the person who could hear that still small voice of God. Instead ears are turned toward those who deny the existence of such stabilizing spiritual truths as the existence of sin, godliness, accountability, eternity, and destiny.
What ism anyone has hopped on has a destination, believe it or not. So beware, "there is a way that seems right unto a man, but the end thereof is the way of death."
"All we, like sheep, have gone astray. We have turned, every one, to his own way."
- Mar 27, 2015
- 277
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- No clue - too many causes.
Since the inception of this country, it was founded on separation of church and state. Under God, in the Pledge was added during a DARK time in our history where lives were destroyed under McCarthyism. But everywhere we turn, politicians keep bringing up god and cater to many who are religious.
God is not a delusion to those who believe. God isn't necessary for those who have faith in him/herself.
It doesn't matter what people who don't believe in god call those who do believe. It's choice and one or the other doesn't make the other person right or wrong.
Peace to all.
Except that the US constitution does not mention god even once, nor does it mention Christianity or Jesus Christ.
The first amendment states.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
This is from a letter John Adams wrote to Thomas Jefferson.
The question before the human race is, Whether the God of nature Shall govern the World by his own laws, or Whether Priests and Kings Shall rule it by fictitious Miracles.?
http://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/03-08-02-0443
Just like fake cures give fake hope.
I am not trying to be mean. You are confusing disagreement with "mean" and agreement with "nice". I can understand why this is the case. For those of us with faith it is likely very important in their lives and to those of of that do not it is just plain ridiculous. You are setting yourself up to be offended.
We are "endowed by our Creator" we are told, and the authors of the Constitution not only mention God, they even mention that Jesus is God. They do this in the ratification clause: This was done "in the Year of Our Lord" 1787.
- Mar 27, 2015
- 277
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- No clue - too many causes.
My views are pretty clear. My core and ancient
beliefs (@46 consistent years) is that of an agnostic. It allows me to be thoughtful (I hope) and logical.1. We are on a forum all over the world (that's cool) where people have many different backgrounds and beliefs.
2. I don't believe in god. I do believe in a modicum of respect and the right for this thread to exist.
3. There's a portion of this forum that believes in god. To those people, for tinnitus that is currently ringing loudly in my brain, they need (I don't) faith and hope there's an entity out there who can help. Why the heck knock 'em unless you're knocked ... then work it out.
In terms of setting ourselves up to be offended, that means you're likely demeaning people. You can talk about your belief without being offensive. It's not your thread, it's the Forum's. I am ignoring "... to those of of that do not it is just plain ridiculous." If you ask to be treated with respect, unless I misinterpreted that line, you're likely not going to get it.
Power to them and let them have fake hope and to them it's real hope. It's more than I have but I like my beliefs just fine.
- Mar 27, 2015
- 277
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- No clue - too many causes.
It is to me. The belief is god doesn't exist. Versus someone saying god does exist.
Ok, nothing is certain.....but not believing in a god is like not believing in santa clause. We can safely say that it is unlikely that they are real....very unlikely.
Just because religion is some kind of socially accepted world wide delusion does not mean I need to treat those poeple any different from a grown person that believes in santa clause. And if you disagree, you can feel offended or.....(and this strangely enough does not happen) prove me wrong.
So the ratification clause you are referring to is this.
Article. VII.
The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same.
The Word, "the," being interlined between the seventh and eighth Lines of the first Page, The Word "Thirty" being partly written on an Erazure in the fifteenth Line of the first Page, The Words "is tried" being interlined between the thirty second and thirty third Lines of the first Page and the Word "the" being interlined between the forty third and forty fourth Lines of the second Page.
Attest William Jackson Secretary
done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,
The term "In the Year of our lord" is the english translation of Anno Domini, or A.D. In the time period , it was not uncommon to date documents or letters this way. No doubt it has a religious origin but that is not the context here. It was added to record what day the legislation was signed.
The days of the week are all named from pagan god but i doubt people would say we have some connection to any of the gods our days are named after.
This link shows a number of births dates and days of death for people and shows just how common it is to use the term Anno Domini in dating letters and documents, which again is the latin translation to " In the year of our lord".
https://books.google.com/books?id=k4zStKaPmsEC&pg=RA1-PA677&lpg=RA1-PA677&dq=anno+domini+1800&source=bl&ots=6TJ02BWTEh&sig=L326MCut_mmqf4uQHmgXR62T6RQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gfVMVcHLN4KqyATxuYGQBw&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=anno domini 1800&f=false
Secondly, since it is at the end of the constitution and again for the purpose of dating the document, it doesn't actually influence the constitution in anyway. It is outside any of the actual articles, and amendments written in the constitution. So i fail to see how this plays any role in shaping how the constitution was written or why it was written. It does not prove our country was built on any religious precept. Especially when very unambiguously it is stated in the first amendment, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.
Also an even more unambiguous statement , article 11 in the original signing of the Treaty of Tripoli says
As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion.
But this does not say anything about the people the laws were written for. Obviously there was a strong christian influence in the early days of the United States, but the founding fathers wanted a separation of church and state for a reason.
In addition to the John Adams letter to Thomas Jefferson, these are a few more excerpts from letters written by the founding fathers
Thomas Jefferson
And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors." -- Jefferson's letter to John Adams, April 11 1823
Benjamin Franklin- Memoirs in the life and writings of Benjamin Franklin
When a Religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and, when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors are oblig'd to call for the help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
This pointing to the separation of church and state
- Mar 27, 2015
- 277
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/2011
- Cause of Tinnitus
- No clue - too many causes.
I'm not even close to being offended. By what you said except Santa is not real and is based on myths that happen to lend itself right into capitalism. God - where folks created something based on unknown and faith ... I won't go there and it goes beyond way beyond capitalism. There are too many people who have a need to believe. When religious groups come a-knockin' on my door, I let them know they're soliciting where we have not allowed it and I have hopped on my motorcycle to see them out of the neighborhood. Simple stuff.
I'm not focused on treating those who believe in religion any differently than anyone else. I really don't give a hoot who's in the minority or majority. With all the hatred in the world and one frickin' one upmanship and stupid fights about religion in so many places, if a person has a need to believe in an entity that can't be proven or dis-proven, I try not to knock that person. I know belief in something helps some - I let them alone so long as they're not imposing their belief system on me. I'm not going to go so far as to call those people delusional whether I believe they are or not. We can dismantle Santa with facts. Dismantling god is impossible since it's based on the unproven.
I don't follow social mores (and some people here have been subjected to that - ho ho ho) I'm just kind of going by the motto of, "Live and let live (I'm adding) in peace."
Shadgirl: Sjoerd and I are having a discussion. It's not a debate. There's a way to lock down threads, I think, to limit who can join in the discussion. If you want a thread on god for only those who believe in god, create it and lock the rest of us out - if you can. You appear to have that need.
Without debates you have war, people fight when they get offended over someones opinion, debates do not provoke fights when undertaken by intelligent rational people, fights happen when people haven't the ability to rationally debate and respect another's opinion!
Like I said without debates their is no peace!
You should thank your God that the world leaders do debate, their was a time where no debates were undertaken, you can look it up in our history.
Just look under world war 1 and 2, Korea, Vietnam and even further back to the crusades, ETC, ETC, ETC
@RichL Well said, just to add a thought, i think the fact that we can debate freely means we should as much as possible. Many people have gone to war to have the freedom to have these types of discussions, the arab spring comes to mind in recent history. Personally whatever decision or idea i have ill debate with myself, ill try to disprove and attack my position as much as i can just to see if its really as plausible as i think it is.
Agree totally @cullenbohannon , I personally love debates, as it is as much to do with gaining knowledge as well as hearing other people's opinion's and points of view .
I'm happy for you @Shadgirl , hopefully that is the sign of things to come for you.
I wasn't aware that your God could die, so why did you feel the need to tell us this?
Lucky, thank you for your nice comment s on all the isms that
have crept in leading people astray by the multitudes. Great insight.
have crept in leading people astray by the multitudes. Great insight.
astronomer
Member
- Nov 2, 2013
- 118
- Tinnitus Since
- april 12/2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- noise induced ( factory/rock band )
i think joe needs to buy a professional telescope to fully appreciate the heavens, '' look deep into nature then you will understand everything better ''
From my last few posts, I can see that there is a great deal of interest in religious things. For myself it is
not hard to believe in God and His word. I know that this is a great challenge to many people. At a very
young age of about 7 years old I had a life changing event that has never left me even though it happened about 50 years ago. It was the night before Easter Sunday, and I was alone in my bedroom laying down in bed. The door was shut and the lights off, and suddenly a bright light appeared in the other side of the room. There appeared a heavenly figure bright and shining that spoke to me saying "Come with me". I never went but continued to gaze intently. I never became afraid and it felt like a good presence. Finally within a short time the Angel spoke one more time to me saying "I will be back". I never got up to go and the Angel left as quickly as coming. There have been several other supernatural things that I have seen in the past that make Christianity the only viable option for me being in my right mind. I certainly understand that with all the foolish things that are being done in the name of religion, that many will write this off as a lie or craziness; however this is my testimony of a literal event that took place in my life many years ago. The bible speaks of several that had similar encounters as me, but these are accounts of events that took place over 1900 years ago, and mine is current. I hope this testimony encourages some of the skeptical minds to reconsider coming into an encounter with the Living God, Jesus Christ, the one who died and was buried and rose from the dead, and was seen of over 500 eyewitnesses.
not hard to believe in God and His word. I know that this is a great challenge to many people. At a very
young age of about 7 years old I had a life changing event that has never left me even though it happened about 50 years ago. It was the night before Easter Sunday, and I was alone in my bedroom laying down in bed. The door was shut and the lights off, and suddenly a bright light appeared in the other side of the room. There appeared a heavenly figure bright and shining that spoke to me saying "Come with me". I never went but continued to gaze intently. I never became afraid and it felt like a good presence. Finally within a short time the Angel spoke one more time to me saying "I will be back". I never got up to go and the Angel left as quickly as coming. There have been several other supernatural things that I have seen in the past that make Christianity the only viable option for me being in my right mind. I certainly understand that with all the foolish things that are being done in the name of religion, that many will write this off as a lie or craziness; however this is my testimony of a literal event that took place in my life many years ago. The bible speaks of several that had similar encounters as me, but these are accounts of events that took place over 1900 years ago, and mine is current. I hope this testimony encourages some of the skeptical minds to reconsider coming into an encounter with the Living God, Jesus Christ, the one who died and was buried and rose from the dead, and was seen of over 500 eyewitnesses.
