Member- Aug 29, 2015
- 7,069
- Tinnitus Since
- 2004
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Meniere's Disease
Another Option for Me — Suicide
- Thread starter Paulmanlike
- Start date
Because the chatting IS the support they need at the time. The chat may lead to new thoughts, ideas down the track, if not right away. Chatting is simply playing the long game.
ManagerI wish the best for you, too, @threefirefour. We are all here to support one another, and many of us have found that, with time, things do improve. We are sharing our positive experiences with you, in the hope that it is of value to you.
Very best wishes,
Karen
Very best wishes,
Karen
Oh come on Amiel. You told @Marc22 in a now-deleted thread that he deserves his ear problems. You have no business calling someone twisted.
@Paulmanlike and @threefirefour have every right to express their frustration over how hard it is to cope with T, how there is no promising cure coming up soon, how habituation can't apply to them for whatever reason, and how suicide (and not even assisted dying) seems to be the only way out. We can't pretend everything works out and everyone gets happy in the end of this horrendous thing. I just sincerely hope that the both of them make the best decision and not regret it!
I find the opinion of people saying suicide is never an option a little condescending. Sadly for many people all over it is an option and one they take, for all manner of reasons. To tell someone who is in great distress and in a state of suicidal ideation that it's something "they can't" do can just exacerbate the situation.
I can understand why people with tinnitus where it has destroyed their life go down this route. The permanence of the noise and lack of hope for any relief can destroy a persons mental state in a short space of time. However I think there is always hope and no one should have to go down this route. Time heals in the vast majority of cases.
I can understand why people with tinnitus where it has destroyed their life go down this route. The permanence of the noise and lack of hope for any relief can destroy a persons mental state in a short space of time. However I think there is always hope and no one should have to go down this route. Time heals in the vast majority of cases.
Making a suicidal person feel obligated to stay for other people never works. It implies that we haven't already extensively thought about how our loved ones will feel should we choose to go when in truth, it's all we think about. It makes us seem like we don't feel bad about contemplating killing ourselves when more often than not, our loved ones are a big part of the reason why we're still here. It makes us feel resentful because we are basically told to endure suffering so that others won't, then it makes us feel guilty about feeling resentful. Ultimately, it makes us believe we are horrible people for feeling the way we feel and that we are better off dead. It's an endless cycle that further pushes us down the rabbit hole.
IT. MAKES. THINGS. WORSE.
I'd rather focus on the suicidal person's feelings and not to invalidate them. Acknowledging our suffering isn't the same as encouraging us to kill ourselves -- far from it, in fact. It's a tough battle and sometimes, we just need someone to listen without judgment.
IT. MAKES. THINGS. WORSE.
I'd rather focus on the suicidal person's feelings and not to invalidate them. Acknowledging our suffering isn't the same as encouraging us to kill ourselves -- far from it, in fact. It's a tough battle and sometimes, we just need someone to listen without judgment.
- Jan 25, 2016
- 429
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Extreme stress, sinus infection
Oh... I understand now.... I finally get it....
All those members listed in Success Stories, who have (initially thought about ending their lives) successfully learned to manage their tinnitus and go on to live productive, meaningful and happy lives (despite their miserable, intrusive T) --- who have "habituated" ((ooh.. I know some of you dislike that word)) should have at first been told we understand their suffering and realize their wish to commit suicide -- and... t..h..e..n... with genuine understanding gently ...ENCOURAGE them to carry their suicide out. hmmm... how many Success Stories would there be then????
~~~and ..... of course, they have already considered what effect their suicide would have upon their loved ones, but
when
we the concerned forum members who value each precious Life, mention this:
IT.MAKES.THINGS.WORSE
In this case, it also follows there should be a separate thread entitled "Best Methods to Off Oneself" !
****************************
It seems to me some the members are misguided and misunderstanding the purpose of a "support group" and asserting the act of trying to dissuade those from committing suicide is wrong.
All those members listed in Success Stories, who have (initially thought about ending their lives) successfully learned to manage their tinnitus and go on to live productive, meaningful and happy lives (despite their miserable, intrusive T) --- who have "habituated" ((ooh.. I know some of you dislike that word)) should have at first been told we understand their suffering and realize their wish to commit suicide -- and... t..h..e..n... with genuine understanding gently ...ENCOURAGE them to carry their suicide out. hmmm... how many Success Stories would there be then????
~~~and ..... of course, they have already considered what effect their suicide would have upon their loved ones, but
when
we the concerned forum members who value each precious Life, mention this:
IT.MAKES.THINGS.WORSE
In this case, it also follows there should be a separate thread entitled "Best Methods to Off Oneself" !
****************************
It seems to me some the members are misguided and misunderstanding the purpose of a "support group" and asserting the act of trying to dissuade those from committing suicide is wrong.
It absolutely is. If people want to end their lives we shouldn't get as much in their way as possible. I firmly believe that for some people, suicide really is the best option, and anyone in that boat deserves the option to die if they want. It's their death, why should they have to postpone it? Because we don't want them to?
zeroday
Member
- Jan 20, 2016
- 113
- 69
- Tinnitus Since
- 01/1995
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Driving Truck
If living is more pain then good, and there's no end in sight, it's probably the best option.
- May 11, 2016
- 1,184
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Loud music/gigs probably
- Apr 24, 2017
- 86
- Tinnitus Since
- April 8th, 2017 (a few days after)
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Vertigo->48 hours->Deaf in left Ear->Tinnitus
@Paulmanlike - if you didnt have this label of an OCD suffer, what would that do to how you see your future?
The experience of the screech is uncomfortable - we all have that here. But its only depressing because of what you are actively focusing on. You could stop focusing on that and focus on something else. There will be people reading this and be very angry, but the reality is its the truth - our neurology is such that feelings, such as depression, come AFTER thought. So if you refused to think a depressive thought (which is possible), how would you feel then? Mindfulness Therapy has been profoundly successful, mainly because it interjects this seemingly uninterruptible thought pattern. We have a self-reflexive consciousness which allows us to take control of what we are doing; many never realize this before its over.
If you tell yourself you are suffering - because theres cognition and volition before that expression in the mind unfolds - then you will suffer. If you tell yourself YOU ARE NOT SUFFERING, you will have a different experience. And this is not positive thinking or affirmations - its about being careful of the potency of the words we use when we explain our experience. If 80% of our thoughts out of the 65-70k of thoughts a day we have are negative, becoming mindful of our language can absolutely change our experience, for the better or worse, depending on which words YOU DECIDE TO FOCUS ON.
I respect your intolerance of uncertainty. The greatest uncertainty of all is what happens after death. Naturally, deciding not to focus on ideas and thoughts that can never be answered, would be the first step out of this plight. That is of course, if you want to?
Personal mastery has been studied for hundreds of years, and heres a quote from one of the greats which has been proven time and again to be correct since those words were first uttered:
"Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking."
- Marcus Aurelius
Some things to think about.
mf
- Jan 25, 2016
- 429
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Extreme stress, sinus infection
Alright I'm sorry I suggested the idea. I don't want potential readers to consider this as a first option. Do everything else first because it's a last resort.
- May 24, 2017
- 1,622
- Tinnitus Since
- 05/2017 (H since 06/2017)
- Cause of Tinnitus
- long term noise exposure (headphones), maybe some stress.
I see that you are trying to help and I applaud you for that
but if it were that easy, just telling yourself "you are not suffering" then this forum would not exist or at the very least not have so many members who are struggling and suffering.This is really something that is easier said then done. Very very much so.
@Mettafort,
With all due respect. In tinnitus terms you have had the condition for a very short time and therefore, I would like to inform you of a few things that you may not be aware of as I have had this condition for twenty one years.
Tinnitus comes in many forms and intensities and no two people experience it the same. When it is mild or moderate many people are able to habituate to it without it impacting too much on their life and are able to carry on doing everything that they want to. Unfortunately, some people have it quite severe. Sometimes this can be continuous and a person may need to be on medication to help them cope.
Others may experience fluctuating tinnitus from mild, moderate, severe and extremely severe. When tinnitus reaches these severe levels and this is sustained, it can become a seriously debilitating condition that can affect a person's mental well-being considerably, and they may do something to themselves that they wouldn't normally do if they weren't in such a distressed state. This type of tinnitus cannot be habituated to or as you say quite nonchalantly, and I quote: Tell yourself YOU ARE NOT SUFFERING.
By you making such a bold statement and to be shouting it out in capitals, is a clear indication to me that you have never suffered from severe intrusive tinnitus, of the type that I am talking of which is very debilitating. If you have ever experienced it believe me you would think twice before making such a statement.
Michael
With all due respect. In tinnitus terms you have had the condition for a very short time and therefore, I would like to inform you of a few things that you may not be aware of as I have had this condition for twenty one years.
Tinnitus comes in many forms and intensities and no two people experience it the same. When it is mild or moderate many people are able to habituate to it without it impacting too much on their life and are able to carry on doing everything that they want to. Unfortunately, some people have it quite severe. Sometimes this can be continuous and a person may need to be on medication to help them cope.
Others may experience fluctuating tinnitus from mild, moderate, severe and extremely severe. When tinnitus reaches these severe levels and this is sustained, it can become a seriously debilitating condition that can affect a person's mental well-being considerably, and they may do something to themselves that they wouldn't normally do if they weren't in such a distressed state. This type of tinnitus cannot be habituated to or as you say quite nonchalantly, and I quote: Tell yourself YOU ARE NOT SUFFERING.
By you making such a bold statement and to be shouting it out in capitals, is a clear indication to me that you have never suffered from severe intrusive tinnitus, of the type that I am talking of which is very debilitating. If you have ever experienced it believe me you would think twice before making such a statement.
Michael
- Apr 24, 2017
- 86
- Tinnitus Since
- April 8th, 2017 (a few days after)
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Vertigo->48 hours->Deaf in left Ear->Tinnitus
I see that you are trying to help and I applaud you for that
This is really something that is easier said then done. Very very much so.
I appreciate and respect the belief structure that sees that it is easier said than done. And naturally, in my comment about language, its about more than one statement, but ones whole choice of words. And my intent is not to minimize the experience of being depressed - I have been clinically depressed in my lifetime and attempted suicide and was locked in a psych ward. I have a real experience of it, and I also respect that its my own subjective experience. I sincerely understand what its like when one is in the tempest of a Black Dog, and it seems like there is nothing that can be done - another belief structure of thought.
My intention was to present yet another insight that can be effective, like all of the other things that have been mentioned in this thread as antidotes to the depression. The choice of language one uses can absolutely play a major role, may not in reversing depression, but certainly lessoning it and definitely to not escalate it. There are many neurological hacks that one has to go looking for that help in all sorts of situations. For example one of the most efficient ways to calm a stress neurology is to force a yawn and stretch slowly. This has been scientifically proven to bring the agitated mind-body connection down to calmer levels. Similarly, the choice of words, or what one decides to focus their attention and thoughts on (like a future worth living for), are also proven to help pull people out of depression. Formulating a compelling future, finding and aligning with ones greater purpose, especially outside of oneself, also has efficacy. And the results dont necessarily have to be instant, but the journey requires putting a small step forward, and one such step would be to be cognizant of ones emotive language.
mf
- Apr 24, 2017
- 86
- Tinnitus Since
- April 8th, 2017 (a few days after)
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Vertigo->48 hours->Deaf in left Ear->Tinnitus
Michael, I appreciate the sentiment of the sentence, or the post, was completely misunderstood. My simple point is, if in the middle of a crisis you keep telling yourself you are dieing, you are suffering, this is a f! nightmare, <whatever other emotive text you want to tell yourself>, it isnt going to help the situation, is it?
I realize you are more accomplished in the domain of tinnitus, but respectfully, you have absolutely no idea what experience of tinnitus and hyperacusis I have, and live with on a daily basis. Notice I didnt say SUFFER WITH, or ENDURE, or STRUGGLE WITH, or that I AM IN HELL WITH. I have had all of those thoughts, and I have had many more dark thoughts since my personal event. But I dont see how you can conclude that my misunderstood sentiment to be careful about ones language is in any way an indication of the severity or otherwise of my own personal condition.
Now I remember why I stopped posting...thanks for reminding me Michael.
mf
If you are speaking for yourself @Mettafort then please accept my apologies for misunderstanding. I don't know the type of tinnitus or hypercusis that you have. And if your way of coping with it when it's severe is telling yourself that you are not suffering then so be it. However, for the majority of people that have these conditions and they reach the levels of severity that I'm referring to then it's not so easy to do so.
I occasionally counsel people on the telephone with tinnitus. The distress that some of these people are in would be hard for some people to believe that tinnitus is able to take a person to such depths of despair. As I said, If you were speaking of yourself then that is fair enough.
Michael
@threefirefour I'm sure you don't! You're just stressed, tired, frustrated and pissed off at how this has negatively impacted your life. Take comfort from knowing you're most definitely NOT alone in this horrible struggle.....
x
I've known more than a few people that committed suicide. Some I knew casually, some I grew up with and one was a family member.
My cousin and her husband used to travel to where I live to visit. They were from a large city, I lived in a what's considered a rural area, and they always made it out like we were hillbillies. Even sent postcards to that effect. His whole attitude ate at me and I could have been a lot nicer to say the least. Only later did I realize it was just his way of trying to get to know me and be friendly.
After an argument with his wife he went to sleep in another room in their home. She heard a sound like he had knocked a lamp over or something and didn't think anything about it. When she went in to check on him the next morning he had shot himself in the head. No note, no nothing.
I felt so guilty. If I had only known maybe I could have said something, or maybe if I had been a little more understanding. That's been over 15 years ago and I still think about him on occasion. I can only imagine how his wife, his kids, his parents, her parents and their part of the family felt.
One of the people I knew was from another forum. He had made contact with a group who advocated suicide and had it all planned out. He went through with it too and nothing I said made one bit of difference in the end.
All I can say is don't rush into anything. It's a permanent thing and nothing that can't wait till you've exhausted all options if that's what you're bound and determined to do.
But people don't always die instantly , they can have a chance to regret it even if it's just for a minute. I personally think it's devastating to regret such a major decision in one's final moments especially if the chosen exit method leaves no room for backing out. That's why it's important for anyone choosing to that path to be sure it's what they truly want. Nevertheless, I still stand firmly by my belief that it should be one's choice. I understand how some people will choose nothingness -- no consciousness, no awareness, no self, no happiness because it also means no pain, no suffering, no fear.
Fabrikat
Member
- May 1, 2017
- 416
- Tinnitus Since
- 1973
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Otosclerosis then volume then viral infection
I hope you don't @Mettafort. I'm always interested to read your posts and the strategies and perspectives you adopt to deal with your condition. Yours is a different beast to the regular noise induced but with good hearing variety of tinnitus that people regularly report on TT. And you come at it with courage and wisdom that I admire. I come at mine more feebly, so I gain much from your insights.
@Lex , we have had conversations about suicide, so you know I respect your opinions and thoughts on this subject, but I have to disagree with the quoted statement. While I agree that trying to make someone feel obligated may not work, from personal experience I can state that not everyone who attempts suicide considers how it will affect others. When I made my attempt, that was not a consideration at all. My main, and only thought, was to end the emotional torment I was experiencing at the time. I am very happy for you (assuming that you fall into the group who consider who it may affect) that you have people whom you love and love you enough that they would be negatively affected by your passing, but for those of us who do not (or did not at the time they were considering suicide), we cannot consider the feelings of people who do not exist. Again, you know I respect your opinions on this subject, and have enjoyed our conversations, so I hope my response is not taken negatively.
I agree entirely with this one. We do need to acknowledge their feelings, and it is not encouraging them to go through with it. As with a lot of depression-related issues, a lot of the time the person suffering just needs someone to listen and acknowledge that what they are feeling is valid. We can state that we do not believe that they are interpreting the situation correctly, or that their proposed solution is the best, or even a good one, but we have to acknowledge their feelings. Their feelings are real. Even if they are based entirely on misinformation, exaggeration, misinterpretation, etc.., what they are feeling is real. We need to help them with what they are feeling first, and in most cases, once their feelings are acknowledged and properly addressed (in a supportive way) the suicidal ideations will probably dissipate.
I neglected to mention that the person I knew from another forum that committed suicide did so with his mothers approval.
I honestly can't remember what disease he had but he had it from birth. I do know it affected him severely and was only going to get worse with time. For his mother to approve of him ending his life he must have suffered greatly.
Edit: The thought also crossed my mind if she wasn't glad to be rid of the burden his illness placed on her.
We talked in PM on several occasions and for a long time. He told me how he was never going to be able to live a normal life, all about the group he had contacted and the method he planned and eventually used, but I will not disclose it.
I guess in the end I had no idea of what he really went through and my trying to get him not to do it was selfish on my part and founded in my own belief system.
I do not, however, think that tinnitus should prevent a person from leading a normal life or that suicide should be a viable option, but cannot know anyone's level of suffering or how it effects them personally any more than I could his. Only that I've been able to go on with my life.
- Aug 29, 2015
- 7,069
- Tinnitus Since
- 2004
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Meniere's Disease
Tinnitus can be Mental Torture for some people and can push oneself to the brink !
I know just how bad that is as my tinnitus is sever due to Menieres.
I also know what it's like just wanting to stay alive.
Life is so precious and we need to do everything in our power to make sure we find and do what can make us happy.
We might need to change plans if not up to it but lookforward to when we can.
Life never goes to plan and can change for the better so never give up hope or let it take away your smile.
Love glynis x
I know just how bad that is as my tinnitus is sever due to Menieres.
I also know what it's like just wanting to stay alive.
Life is so precious and we need to do everything in our power to make sure we find and do what can make us happy.
We might need to change plans if not up to it but lookforward to when we can.
Life never goes to plan and can change for the better so never give up hope or let it take away your smile.
Love glynis x
meeb
Member
- Nov 6, 2016
- 66
- Tinnitus Since
- 2002
- Cause of Tinnitus
- loud clubs initially, now louder due to noise & vibrations.
I am in a similar boat to Paulmanlike, my tinnitus has only gotten progressively worse and worse since a year ago and I don't know if I will cope for much longer either. I feel bad for people who have to stay alive so their families are not upset as that's the boat I'm in.
Log in or register to get the full forum benefits!
Similar threads
