Basically Cured with Psilocybin

[GBB]

Hi, new member here. I've had tinnitus since hunting with shotguns in my youth with no ear plugs. :^) I'm in my 50s now and have pretty much learned to live with (ignore) it, but occasionally it raises its' ugly head and reminds me it's still there - a constant high pitched ringing in both ears.

Paul Stamets' "stack" includes Lion's Mane (another neurogenesis) and Niacin (w/ flush) which increases GABA absorption through the blood brain barrier. There may be some science to back up the anecdotal reports of psilocybin mushrooms improving the severity of tinnitus. See this paper on Frontostriatal Gating which mentions both GABA and serotonin involvement:

Frontostriatal Gating of Tinnitus and Chronic Pain

Note: I've been using mushrooms for a couple of years now to treat various disorders (namely OCD) and to improve my spiritual life and relationships. I've tried anywhere from 0.2g to 6.0g as well as micro-dosing for 2 months. Although I have had some crazy hearing synesthesia at high doses, I still have tinnitus. Strangely though, I have not thought to make a note of whether my tinnitus is "active" during these experiences. I'll do that next time, for sure. I have had so much success with this sacred medicine in other areas of my life. I'm sure it holds the key...

PS: I'm curious about whether the strain makes a difference. Not all mushrooms are the same and contain various amounts of other compounds (not just psilocybin) that work on the serotonergic system. I only have experience with P. Cubensis.

Cheers.

If this stuff only increases GABA in the brain it will have the same problem benzos have, which is that your brain will shut down GABA receptors to maintain homeostasis. I believe many people do get relief from microdosing psilocybin, but not sure this is the mechanism.

I've been chasing my friend for a month now to get some to try...

 

[SWoods]

Finally had a chance to do another mushroom ceremony (7.5 grams of dried P. Cubensis). During the experience, I detected no symptoms of tinnitus (once I was able to notice my physical body again). After the experience, however, my tinnitus did return to "normal". This seems to support the theory that tinnitus is not so much a physical ringing in the ear, but a ringing in the brain - a compensation the brain makes. So, Psilocybin, when doing its re-wiring thing, seems to block/quiet the neural signals that are generating the ringing sound.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, however, that my sense of hearing and smell were vastly improved for a few days after the experience.

 

[Marin]

I found an article about how UC San Diego is using Psilocybin to treat chronic pain and in the article it even mentions tinnitus.

The Psychedelic Science of Pain

I wish there were more accounts on how this could affect hyperacusis besides @Little Lamb who seemed to have great success with it.

 

[Christine2222]

I'm ordering mushrooms and will try microdosing with Niacin and Lion's Mane. I will report back.

 

[strongbeer]

I was thinking this might be worth a shot!

 

[GBB]

Finally had a chance to do another mushroom ceremony (7.5 grams of dried P. Cubensis). During the experience, I detected no symptoms of tinnitus (once I was able to notice my physical body again). After the experience, however, my tinnitus did return to "normal". This seems to support the theory that tinnitus is not so much a physical ringing in the ear, but a ringing in the brain - a compensation the brain makes. So, Psilocybin, when doing its re-wiring thing, seems to block/quiet the neural signals that are generating the ringing sound.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, however, that my sense of hearing and smell were vastly improved for a few days after the experience.

Can you just microdose regularly?

 

[Lukee]

I don't want to dash anyone's hopes but I think microdosing might not be all that effective. Stamets' stack might help with hyperacusis and sensitivity (based on @Aaron91 posting about Lion's Mane) but I don't think low doses of Psilocybin will alleviate the tinnitus. It seems that in almost every case I have read about, remission was achieved by a macro dose of Psilocybin. I think the trick is you need to reset the brain by way of a trip, even if it's just mild and microdosing doesn't seem to accomplish that.

 

[GBB]

I don't want to dash anyone's hopes but I think microdosing might not be all that effective. Stamets' stack might help with hyperacusis and sensitivity (based on @Aaron91 posting about Lion's Mane) but I don't think low doses of Psilocybin will alleviate the tinnitus. It seems that in almost every case I have read about, remission was achieved by a macro dose of Psilocybin. I think the trick is you need to reset the brain by way of a trip, even if it's just mild and microdosing doesn't seem to accomplish that.

I have spoken to a few people who microdose and said it lowered their volume, but maybe if they "macro dosed" they would have even better results, I just have no idea. I've also spoken to a number of people who have said microdosing didn't do much for them.

 

[SWoods]

I have spoken to a few people who microdose and said it lowered their volume, but maybe if they "macro dosed" they would have even better results, I just have no idea. I've also spoken to a number of people who have said microdosing didn't do much for them.

Agreed. Even 1-1.5 grams does not seem to affect mine very much. Went on a hike on 1.5 grams in the mountains the other day, and in the silence I could still hear the gawd awful ringing (so depressing). Not sure about 2 grams, but definitely on 3.5 grams and up there is a therapeutic benefit. Still, though, the tinnitus always returns later. Also, mine is much worse during allergy season with the additional sinus pressure.

 

[GBB]

Agreed. Even 1-1.5 grams does not seem to affect mine very much. Went on a hike on 1.5 grams in the mountains the other day, and in the silence I could still hear the gawd awful ringing (so depressing). Not sure about 2 grams, but definitely on 3.5 grams and up there is a therapeutic benefit. Still, though, the tinnitus always returns later. Also, mine is much worse during allergy season with the additional sinus pressure.

How long does the benefit last?

 

[Tomas80]

microdoses didn't work for me at all.
I tried it for 3 weeks, every second day.

 

[Lukee]

I wanted to link this article.

Psychedelics as a novel approach to treating autoimmune conditions

I believe that for some tinnitus and hyperacusis, this information may eventually prove useful. @FGG, there is a chart in the paper that shows the relevant receptors (for autoimmune, but we know some of these are relevant to tinnitus) and the resulting effect. Maybe you can decipher something relevant to tinnitus and hyperacusis.

This probably should be its own thread, but I'll let the mods decide.

 

[FGG]

I wanted to link this article.

Psychedelics as a novel approach to treating autoimmune conditions

I believe that for some tinnitus and hyperacusis, this information may eventually prove useful. @FGG, there is a chart in the paper that shows the relevant receptors (for autoimmune, but we know some of these are relevant to tinnitus) and the resulting effect. Maybe you can decipher something relevant to tinnitus and hyperacusis.

This probably should be its own thread, but I'll let the mods decide.

It's funny that this research was being published in 2020 as there was a researcher nominated for the Nobel Prize in medicine named Fuad Lechin decades ago who discovered that neurotransmitters could modulate the immune system (before him and people like him, the assumption was it was an automatic process divorced from the brain). He used the same approach. He didn't use psychedelics for this, though.

Instead, he measured neurotransmitters at rest, orthostasis, and exercise over many days and plotted where the dysfunction lie and prescribed titrated amounts of drug. This can't be done outside of a hospital setting and he was in his late 70s in 2005 when I met him so I'm not sure if anyone still does this. He would probably argue against trying to tweak the system without understanding where the individual dysfunction was.

As an aside, he was pretty against anything but low dose antidepressants and was against the widespread dispensing of them. He pointed to a problem with doctors wanting immediate physiologic correction, which he say as over simplified and even harmful. He went well below physiologic correction and let the body achieve the correction gradually (otherwise you have compensatory effects that are counter productive).

 

[Lukee]

I met him so I'm not sure if anyone still does this.

Pretty cool and amazing you got to meet him. Looks like he was just too ahead of his time and unable to help us now.

 

[Lukee]

I have been reading many times now that microdosing seems to aggravate tinnitus and possibly hyperacusis, which is strange because Stamet believes that microdosing cured his tinnitus. Most of the evidence (pretty much all anecdotal) points to taking in larger doses and possibly "heroic" doses.

A new experience seems to confirm this. Someone claiming that a heroic dose pretty much cured their tinnitus. The poster claims that his tinnitus got so loud then went away. This is probably something only really desperate people should contemplate. Wondering if I should post this in the suicidal thread…

 

[xerpes]

I have been reading many times now that microdosing seems to aggravate tinnitus and possibly hyperacusis, which is strange because Stamet believes that microdosing cured his tinnitus. Most of the evidence (pretty much all anecdotal) points to taking in larger doses and possibly "heroic" doses.

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From those anecdotal reports, how big are we talking?

 

[Lukee]

From those anecdotal reports, how big are we talking?

Seems to be 5 g+. There is a Johns Hopkins study that many other have followed suggesting something like 2.5 g and it seems that has worked as well with a tighter dosing schedule.

 

[xerpes]

Seems to be 5 g+. There is a Johns Hopkins study that many other have followed suggesting something like 2.5 g and it seems that has worked as well with a tighter dosing schedule.

Great. I'll try to report back here within 30-60 days. Hang tight!

 

[Ben Winders]

Great. I'll try to report back here within 30-60 days. Hang tight!

Do you have an update for us? Did you try the "heroic" dose?

 

[SectorClear]

I've taken Psilocybin mushrooms dozens of times before tinnitus. I'm scared to take them now and make tinnitus worse but I really like how therapeutic they are so I'll probably roll the dice at some point one of these weekends. I'll be sure to report back my findings. I only ever take 2-3.5 g so hopefully that's enough. I have never done a heroic 5+ g dose.

 

[xela]

Hi folks,
I figured Id relay my experience as Ive had tinnitus ranging from severe (bringing me to tears) to mild. I also have lots of experience with psilocybin.

Its worth mentioning that Im not a therapist or doctor. Not that that really matters as Im sure many of you have exhausted those resources.

My anecdotal experience is that mushrooms do have the potential to essentially "cure" tinnitus, or at least reduce it dramatically. Plus the substance is recognized by western science as being an incredibly powerful drug for treating depression and anxiety, without the horrible side effects of prozac etc.

That said, if you are new to psychedelics, it will be a very challenging experience. I personally enjoy the challenging aspect of it but have been dosing for a couple decades now. If you are new, the odds of success are not great unless you have a friend to guide you and help. Otherwise it will feel hugely overwhelming.

The key is macrodosing. Micro dosing wont work nearly as well. The higher the dose, the more effective it will be. But it will also be way harder and more scary. Again, find an experienced friend and start with a basic dose (about one gram), and work up to a standard/strong dose (3.5g), and eventually into the heroic dose realm (above 3.5 grams, up to around 5).

One reason regular micro dosing is much less effective, is psychedelics cant be used more than about once a week. The brains receptors "tighten up" and the drug loses all potency with doses closely spaced. Increasing the dosage will not work, you have to take a week off. But then its back to normal and works great again.

The trip itself will likely result in very very intense tinnitus at first, lessening later. But the real fruit wont be reaped until the next day and beyond.
The worse the neurological problems, the more sessions it will take.

The best analogy I can think of is a rope. A rope in good condition does not have kinks and twists. But a twisted rope needs to have the kinks pushed down and out of the rope. When your hand is pushing out the twists, the rope will actually feel more twisted below your hand. But eventually, the twists will be pushed out and the rope becomes straight again.

A brain with tinnitus, or other neurological problems, is like a rope full of kinks. The psilocybin will push out the twists. But the tinnitus will get worse during the trip at least for a while, and the process will require several passes. And it will be generally quite a stressful and challenging experience at times.

Its worth noting that statistically psilocybin is incredibly safe, except for those who are clinically psychotic. Many refer to it as the safest of all drugs, as even weed puts more people in the ER. And, like weed, there is no amount known to cause an overdose. Its non toxic, and has been used for thousands of years as an entheogenic drug.

Hope this helps. Feel free to msg me for more info.

 

[danielthor]

I would be all over this if I could handle the highs. My trips have been so bad that I've considered suicide while on them as the only way to escape.

 

[Damocles]

If you are new, the odds of success are not great unless you have a friend to guide you and help. Otherwise it will feel hugely overwhelming.

Again, find an experienced friend and start with a basic dose (about one gram), and work up to a standard/strong dose (3.5g), and eventually into the heroic dose realm (above 3.5 grams, up to around 5).

@xela, will you be my friend?

 

[kingsfan]

I'm not sure how to describe them, but I've seen ads for professionals that I guess guide you? Is this a scam or a viable option?

 

[Damocles]

I'm not sure how to describe them, but I've seen ads for professionals that I guess guide you? Is this a scam or a viable option?

Psilocybin Trials (kcl.ac.uk)

The Psychedelic Trials Group at the Centre for Affective Disorders is currently running randomised, controlled trials of psilocybin. These trials are led by Dr James Rucker and Professor Allan Young. The overall aim of the trials is to determine whether psilocybin, given with psychological support, is a safe and effective form of therapy. Initially, our trials are focussing on clinical depression.

I mean, if it's one of these guys you saw in the ad, then I'd say it's a viable option...

 

[kingsfan]

Psilocybin Trials (kcl.ac.uk)

I mean, if it's one of these guys you saw in the ad, then I'd say it's a viable option...

I doubt it was. I'm trying to remember the name of the company but it escapes me.

 

[Óscar PP]

I'm ordering mushrooms and will try microdosing with Niacin and Lion's Mane. I will report back.

How was it?

 

[IndyMLVC]

I can imagine it shouldn't be too difficult to find someone in NYC to help me out...

 

[blamingeverything]

I can imagine it shouldn't be too difficult to find someone in NYC to help me out...

Oh absolutely. It could also be worth a trip to Oregon or Colorado where guided psychedelic services are legal.

 

[IndyMLVC]

Oh absolutely. It could also be worth a trip to Oregon or Colorado where guided psychedelic services are legal.

I'm willing to travel. I'm starting to spiral a bit these days and I'm scared it could move into suicidal ideation again. I'll do anything.