Brai2n Tinnitus Clinic in Belgium

[Mo_Mo]

Have an appointment on the 12th of march at the clinic.

Your still going in 2 days?

 

[MarioT]

What is the price tag for a treatment at this clinic?

 

[JeffDamsko]

Your still going in 2 days?

Actually called me yesterday. They postponed the appointment to the 26th of march due to doctor being sick.

All treatments including costs are on the site. I haven't time to look it up now, gotta get to work.

 

[Christian78]

That happens to me also, but you are explaining this phenomena as "somatic tinnitus" - not sure what you mean here, that everyone who can alter the T frequency and volume by jaw movements have T caused by mental trauma/stress or similar? That's how I perceive you when you write " My tinnitus is somatic so if i clench my jaws i hear my tinnitus a bit louder."

i hear t when i clench my jaws and many people i know

 

[skoupidis]

So, anyone from this forum had visited them and found some relief?

 

[Christian78]

What is the price tag for a treatment at this clinic?

tot 3200 euro

So, anyone from this forum had visited them and found some relief?

i plan to go 4 june 2015

Actually called me yesterday. They postponed the appointment to the 26th of march due to doctor being sick.

All treatments including costs are on the site. I haven't time to look it up now, gotta get to work.

they wrote to me and said they cant 11 march but 4 june (i dont beleave doc is sick) and price i can give

 

[Codaz]

@Christian78

Do you have any idea why you can modulate T with your jaw? Do you think you have any form of TMJ or neck related problems?

3200 euro seems a lot of money, but if it brings improvement it's needed.

 

[ruben ruiz]

You dont how much we would like this type of care in the US.
The US is own by big pharm. Its all about money not finding a cure.

 

[Codaz]

You dont how much we would like this type of care in the US.
The US is own by big pharm. Its all about money not finding a cure.

And then the fact that a lot of American's do not want a public health service where everyone pays a monthly health insurance fee, because they "do not want to pay for others". But that is another discussion...

 

[Christian78]

@Christian78

Do you have any idea why you can modulate T with your jaw? Do you think you have any form of TMJ or neck related problems?

3200 euro seems a lot of money, but if it brings improvement it's needed.

I done neck correction, before when i had low tinnitus i could yawn and increase and i have tmj but not painful...

i had before when i yawn worsening t or if i lean on fist.

i go and see what they say, at least they have form of sLoreta qeeg, that one can prove your tinnitus and print out recording as 3d map, not detailed as dr jeanmonod but it can for sure profe my tinnitus.

if they don't find problem in your head, division of tinnitus they will not do any treatment.

 

[Codaz]

Thanks for that pricelist @Christian78
Lower part is just about what is been covered by Belgian health insurance (with the stars in front of the text).

 

[Christian78]

Thanks for that pricelist @Christian78
Lower part is just about what is been covered by Belgian health insurance (with the stars in front of the text).

they don't cover anything

 

[Rudi Belgium]

Don't go . I live in Belgium. They try anthing what is available in other countries. And it is a lot of money and at the end they put you on anti depressant and a benzodiazepine.

 

[Codaz]

Don't go . I live in Belgium. They try anthing what is available in other countries. And it is a lot of money and at the end they put you on anti depressant and a benzodiazepine.

Then what is their pricelist for? And some countries don't try anything. Plus in the end it's your own move to take those pills.

 

[JeffDamsko]

So I had my appointment last Thursday. Before the actual appointment they made an audiogram of me in the hospital and an ENT had a quick look in my ears.
Then I was off to the brai2n clinic which is in the same hospital. When I got at the reception I had to register and pay an advance of 40 euro. I was helped by Jan van OSt who the assistent to Dr de Ridder for 9 years. He is not actually a doctor and calls himself a neuro modulator. After an intake conversation about my t and medical history he prescribed me clonezepam and deanxit and told me to try 1 of each daily for 2 weeks and see how that worked and if it didn't to quit them after the 2 weeks. It's actually 1mg of clonazepam before sleep, and 10mg Deanxit when waking up.
After this he proceeded to take a qEEG of me. This took a mere 5 minutes after he had fitted all the electrodes. I will have to go back on the 23rd of April to get the results of the qEEG on which the treatment will be chosen. Treatment would most likely be TENS, TMS, or neuro feedback.
After this i had to fill out several questionnaires among which was a THI.
total costs for this a appointment were
-intake 40
-qEEG 140
and my personal travel costs. They bill afterwards so you only need to pay the advance of 40.
Most treatments cost about 600 for full cycle. He said they have a succes rate of about 50% in reducing t distress. No cures Just reduction.
Will update after follow up appointment.

Don't go . I live in Belgium. They try anthing what is available in other countries. And it is a lot of money and at the end they put you on anti depressant and a benzodiazepine.

Where I live, Holland, they don't offer any of the options they have there. Deanxit isnt even available/ registered in Holland. Plus they won't easily give you clonezepam. I actually think there prices are very reasonable.
and they start with the medicines, not in the end.

 

[Codaz]

So I had my appointment last Thursday. Before the actual appointment they made an audiogram of me in the hospital and an ENT had a quick look in my ears.
Then I was off to the brai2n clinic which is in the same hospital. When I got at the reception I had to register and pay an advance of 40 euro. I was helped by Jan van OSt who the assistent to Dr de Ridder for 9 years. He is not actually a doctor and calls himself a neuro modulator. After an intake conversation about my t and medical history he prescribed me clonezepam and deanxit and told me to try 1 of each daily for 2 weeks and see how that worked and if it didn't to quit them after the 2 weeks. It's actually 1mg of clonazepam before sleep, and 10mg Deanxit when waking up.
After this he proceeded to take a qEEG of me. This took a mere 5 minutes after he had fitted all the electrodes. I will have to go back on the 23rd of April to get the results of the qEEG on which the treatment will be chosen. Treatment would most likely be TENS, TMS, or neuro feedback.
After this i had to fill out several questionnaires among which was a THI.
total costs for this a appointment were
-intake 40
-qEEG 140
and my personal travel costs. They bill afterwards so you only need to pay the advance of 40.
Most treatments cost about 600 for full cycle. He said they have a succes rate of about 50% in reducing t distress. No cures Just reduction.
Will update after follow up appointment.


Where I live, Holland, they don't offer any of the options they have there. Deanxit isnt even available/ registered in Holland. Plus they won't easily give you clonezepam. I actually think there prices are very reasonable.
and they start with the medicines, not in the end.

Jeff, thanks for this info. I already have the deanxit + clonazepam from UZA Antwerp. But never took them as my main problem is TMJ, which the UZA never found or questioned me about. What did onset your T?

50% reduction sounds okay to me. Can you tell me a bit more about neuro feedback? THI questionnaire is not done in Holland. Did they do a pressure test (tympanometry?)

 

[valeri]

@JeffDamsko

50% success in reducing t distress????

So we are not talking t volume here???

 

[skoupidis]

A 50% reduction may come on its own and then get back to normal, most people do have good and bad days.
How can anyone be sure they actually do something to your T?

 

[1MW]

with huge dose lorazepam i have 100% reduction my T goes to 0/10.
The bad is after lorazepam inday withdraw i have more severe T.
It's known that benzos have temporary effect in all cases off T and after some time make t worse

 

[Codaz]

A 50% reduction may come on its own and then get back to normal, most people do have good and bad days.
How can anyone be sure they actually do something to your T?

Neuromodulation and other techniques seem to work. If not, then they were out of business.

 

[Rudi Belgium]

I did all nothing help. Don't take deanxit it is an anti depressant and anti psychotic in one pill. Many who take this have a decrease in there tinnitus but when you stop there Will be an increase in tinnitus and hyperacusis. So be carefull. These pills once you take is for whole your life.. They don't say this at this hospital. And if you take long time and you Will stop do it very very slowly. But these pills can not divided so Some doctors don't really know how to taper off. So think twice before start

 

[Codaz]

I did all nothing help. Don't take deanxit it is an anti depressant and anti psychotic in one pill. Many who take this have a decrease in there tinnitus but when you stop there Will be an increase in tinnitus and hyperacusis. So be carefull. These pills once you take is for whole your life.. They don't say this at this hospital. And if you take long time and you Will stop do it very very slowly. But these pills can not divided so Some doctors don't really know how to taper off. So think twice before start

I have read more reports about the level of problems that deanxit and rivotril can/may give. As badly as I want to beat this, I have more progression in doing TMJ physiotherapy than taking any anti depressants.

 

[Mo_Mo]

It's actually 1mg of clonazepam before sleep, and 10mg Deanxit when waking up

did you start taking them?

 

[Craig in Cali]

Neuromodulation and other techniques seem to work. If not, then they were out of business.

Sadly,

This isn't true. How many miracle cures are still selling even though we all know they're not effective?

Desperate people, like many of us, will try many things. All it takes is a line of desperate people to keep you in business.

 

[JeffDamsko]

Sadly,

This isn't true. How many miracle cures are still selling even though we all know they're not effective?

Desperate people, like many of us, will try many things. All it takes is a line of desperate people to keep you in business.

Although I'm not sure that you meant to say they are scammers, I would like to mention that surely these are not scammers, they were very honest about the results they achieve and didn't claim to have a cure, only treatments that lessens distress for about 50% of people. He also spoke about TENS and a recent study that came out that found that TENS doesn't work on 30% of people no matter what they are trying to treat, they are just not susceptible to the electronic currents.
Also there prices are more than reasonable. I spoke with the consultant about Deep brain stimulation treatment which I had looked into here in Holland ) https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/brainwave-optimization.7613/#post-88195 ) as they offer a from of neurofeedback to from your brainwaves. With this treatment they use a way more crude way to measure your brain activity and give feedback on that. When I told him the price they charge for this in Holland, 2.300 euro, he said he should move here to start a private clinic. The hospital charges way less, approx. 600 euros, for a much more advanced form of neurofeedback.
Also they are located in a hospital and have several papers and studies that can be found on ncbi.gov.

did you start taking them?

Yes, does seem to take the edge of. Thing is that before i went there I was already experiencing periods where i heard my tinnitus and didn't hear it at the same time. I know this sounds strange but its the best way i can describe it.
I will continue for the 2 weeks and then stop to see if it makes a difference.

I will go back there on the 23rd of April. Then he will advice one of their treatments to me, and if I understood right have a trial session of that treatment.

 

[Craig in Cali]

@JeffDamsko

My comment was just about being cautious in general. The free market does not operate, as we're told in college, in a way that the 'best' products/services rise to the top. It is about convincing people to part with their money. More often than not this convincing is done through marketing, false advertisement, bogus testimonials, manipulation of placebo effect, and the like.

This can also work against businesses that may have a real solution, but don't have the marketing prowess to get the word out.

I'm hopeful that the Brai2n clinic gives good results, and the people that are successfully treated come forward.

 

[Codaz]

@JeffDamsko

My comment was just about being cautious in general. The free market does not operate, as we're told in college, in a way that the 'best' products/services rise to the top. It is about convincing people to part with their money. More often than not this convincing is done through marketing, false advertisement, bogus testimonials, manipulation of placebo effect, and the like.

This can also work against businesses that may have a real solution, but don't have the marketing prowess to get the word out.

I'm hopeful that the Brai2n clinic gives good results, and the people that are successfully treated come forward.

I totally understand your criticism. If this was a small private clinic I would have my doubts, but they are located in a hospital, like @JeffDamsko says they have research material available and they don't promise a cure.

And remember, placebo relief is also relief. So yes I would ask and read a lot if I would spend 600. The same for HBOT, I focussed myself on that until the dr's said that it would not help me (no hearing loss measured). And that it did work for people, although the Dutch say that it does nothing. The professor literally told me: if we cancel everything that has no scientific proof we might as wel cancel almost everything. Sounds plausible if you ask me. If I read the discussion about the LLLT discussed, some members here dismiss it as nonsense. If it works, why doubt it?

Plus the thing is that every hospital or country tells something different. In Belgium they believe in doing at least something. Go to The Netherlands and they tell you to leave.

 

[JeffDamsko]

@JeffDamsko

My comment was just about being cautious in general. The free market does not operate, as we're told in college, in a way that the 'best' products/services rise to the top. It is about convincing people to part with their money. More often than not this convincing is done through marketing, false advertisement, bogus testimonials, manipulation of placebo effect, and the like.

This can also work against businesses that may have a real solution, but don't have the marketing prowess to get the word out.

I'm hopeful that the Brai2n clinic gives good results, and the people that are successfully treated come forward.

This clinic is not part of the free market. It's in the general insurance for Belgium residents and made available at very reasonable costs to non residenTs

 

[Craig in Cali]

This clinic is not part of the free market. It's in the general insurance for Belgium residents and made available at very reasonable costs to non residenTs

Hmm. Well, this is more encouraging. My assumption would be that the Belgium government would put extra scrutiny on this before they agree.

The same is not true in the USA. Government programs for health are often defrauded....simply because managing 330 million people is too complex, so some fraud and waste gets through.

Please keep us up to date on your impressions of the Brai2n clinic and whether you think their offerings are of value to tinnitus and hyperacusis sufferers.

 

[Codaz]

Hmm. Well, this is more encouraging. My assumption would be that the Belgium government would put extra scrutiny on this before they agree.

The same is not true in the USA. Government programs for health are often defrauded....simply because managing 330 million people is too complex, so some fraud and waste gets through.

Please keep us up to date on your impressions of the Brai2n clinic and whether you think their offerings are of value to tinnitus and hyperacusis sufferers.

I think the Belgian health care is very good. If I did not get prednisone when I ran to a Belgian hospital who knows what could have happened. I might have extreme T. All was supervised by respectable dr's which medical records are free to check online, some of their research material is also available. I hope Brai2n has some research material available too.