Chit Chat and All That...

[OnceUponaTime]

 

[Bill Bauer]

it has given me a wider perspective on things: one from which I can criticise and appreciate things about my own native society and culture and the one here too.

I was born in USSR and have been living in North America for more than 30 years, so I feel the same way.

the constant propaganda and the willingness to fall for a cult of personality so easily

I see the West being in the process of becoming the new USSR. I guess some of the people in Russia see Putin as resisting the pressure from the West to go back to that USSR system, and they approve of it.

 

[Shera]

@aot Wonder what all those fire and brimstone apocalypse hopefuls are thinking now.

@petthedarnkitty Right? What a shit fest!! I'm over 2020!

@OnceUponaTime The fangirl in me is squealing hard!! I love it! Funny enough I just got done watching the live action movie! I want that mask!
I think I stole your sunshine!! It was so lovely. All the kitties have asked for walkies. AKA the human takes them out on the leash they eat a bit of grass and then I carry them around!!

Those are great, but really my hands are so cracked. More than usual.

@aot Maybe I'll still the sunshine again!!

 

[OnceUponaTime]

Just mailed it out!

If I don't get it in a few days the whip comes out!

 

[OnceUponaTime]

When I travel to places that have cemeteries that were founded during the 19th century (e.g., Genoa's Stagliano cemetery), I try to visit them. Usually you get to see beautiful statues. Its nice, peaceful, and quiet at the cemetery! Having admired hundreds of unusual headstones, I wondered what kind of headstone I might want, and that's the best headstone design I could come up with.

Wow! I thought I was the only one that enjoyed visiting different cemeteries and looking at all the statues and headstones. The children's ones are sad to see. I do agree, such a quiet and peaceful place. The cemetery where my beloved niece is buried is absolutely beautiful. In this particular cemetery they only allow flat on the ground headstones and no pictures engraved. It has beautiful waterfalls and gardens everywhere. Just lovely.

 

[Bill Bauer]

once I'm in one I feel like I want to know the stories of all the people who lay there

I know the feeling. One time I saw a photo of a woman who was born in the 18th century still attached to her monument.

I remember one monument from 1920s being a scene of a traffic accident. It must have been the monument of one of the first people to die in a car crash.

I do agree, such a quiet and peaceful place.

One of the more unusual monuments that I have had a chance to see belongs to a cartoonist:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Grave_of_Manfred_Deix

He found a way to make people smile long after his death.

 

[Elmer B Fuddled]

Wow! I thought I was the only one that enjoyed visiting different cemeteries and looking at all the statues and headstones. The children's ones are sad to see. I do agree, such a quiet and peaceful place. The cemetery where my beloved niece is buried is absolutely beautiful. In this particular cemetery they only allow flat on the ground headstones and no pictures engraved. It has beautiful waterfalls and gardens everywhere. Just lovely.

Nope, you're not the only ones that enjoy cemeteries. There's places I've walked through with headstones dated back to the 1600s. Pagan headstones are the neatest ones to see.

 

[Elmer B Fuddled]

@OnceUponaTime
Here's a pagan headstone, notice the freemasons symbol at the bottom. The circle around the top of the cross represents the sun, Pagans worshipped the sun in order to believe in christianity the Christians made the cross with the sun around the top. This type of headstone is still popular today.

 

[Bill Bauer]

There's places I've walked through with headstones dated back to the 1600s.

Was this in Ireland?

 

[Elmer B Fuddled]

Was this in Ireland?

@Bill Bauer
Yes in Ireland my ancestors are buried in a place Dungunstown co. Wicklow the oldest grave we found was dated 1678. Another dated 1752.

 

[all to gain]

I see the West being in the process of becoming the new USSR. I guess some of the people in Russia see Putin as resisting the pressure from the West to go back to that USSR system, and they approve of it.

Interesting, in what ways do you see the West becoming the new USSR?

I've read your second sentence numerous times, but I can interpret it in two very different ways, both with very different meanings. I'm therefore not sure what you mean. So, what do you mean?

I was born in USSR and have been living in North America for more than 30 years, so I feel the same way.

I think I remember you saying that you were born in Ukraine.

 

[Shera]

I'm a bit late to the party, but I also love Cemeteries. @all to gain @OnceUponaTime @Bill Bauer The older the better. When we travel I usually put them on the map/GPS as places to visit. But I LOVE old buildings as well! My poor parents have to suffer through so much!

 

[Bill Bauer]

I think I remember you saying that you were born in Ukraine.

I don't speak Ukrainian. I speak Russian.

Interesting, in what ways do you see the West becoming the new USSR?

Spelling things out would reveal what I disapprove of, and that wouldn't be safe. Canada isn't a free country.

Let's just say that I can't think of any recent movies or TV shows shot in Canada and the US that wouldn't be approved by the Soviet censors.

Soviet movies from 1960s, 70s, and 80s would often have messages that one could see if one were to "read between the lines," and those messages would often be the opposite of the message the movie was supposed to convey. This isn't the case for recent Hollywood movies - all of the messages found in the actual lines and between the lines are trying to achieve the same goal. I don't remember any political brainwashing going on in Soviet children's cartoons. This isn't the case for modern American/Canadian children's cartoons.

I've read your second sentence numerous times, but I can interpret it in two very different ways, both with very different meanings. I'm therefore not sure what you mean. So, what do you mean?

Some Russians believe that the West is attempting to force Russia to join it, which these days amounts to restoring that Soviet system with some minor changes (for the worst) (they might be wrong or they might be right about that; they probably don't recognize the current system in the West as being equivalent to the system in the USSR). Some of those Russians believe that Putin might be the only politician standing between them and those "reforms" (they might be wrong or they might be right about That).

I also love Cemeteries. @all to gain @OnceUponaTime @Bill Bauer The older the better.

Which ones ended up being the most memorable?

If you haven't been to them yet, you have got to see Stagliano cemetery in Genoa as well as the central cemetery in Vienna (where Mozart, and many others are buried).

If you ever decide to visit Italy, check out
https://www.amazon.com/Italian-Memorial-Sculpture-1820-1940-Legacy/dp/071122384X

Not only does this book have photos of beautiful sculptures, but it also lists the best cemeteries in Italy (dozens of cemeteries throughout Italy) to see 19th century memorial sculpture. If you don't want to buy it, you could get it through an inter-library loan.

 

[all to gain]

@Bill Bauer
Yes in Ireland my ancestors are buried in a place Dungunstown co. Wicklow the oldest grave we found was dated 1678. Another dated 1752.

Some 25 years ago I spent 9 weeks going around the west coast of Ireland whilst living in the back of a van. In all I spent almost 2 years in that van (most of the rest of the time was spent in the Scottish Highlands on the west coast). Just like this one and same colour:

 

[aot]

Let's just say that I can't think of any recent movies or TV shows shot in Canada and the US that wouldn't be approved by the Soviet censors.

To be fair I'm not the most educated person when it comes to The Soviet Union or The Cold War, but I doubt the Soviet Censors would be huge fans of Stranger Things (whom portrays them as cruel monsters at worst, and simple minded buffoons at best.) or any show with positive depictions of LGBT people.

I don't remember any political brainwashing going on in Soviet children's cartoons. This isn't the case for modern American/Canadian children's cartoons.

A work is allowed to have political leanings/undertones, even if it's made for children. (And you're allowed to disagree with those leanings/undertones) It's not the same thing as "brainwashing", which I assume you're trying to imply, and it's not a new practice.

 

[aot]

Japanese Graveyards are pretty cool.

 

[aot]

I doubt the Soviet Censors would be huge fans of Stranger Things

In hindsight the American goverment in that show isn't much better, so maybe they wouldn't entirely hate it.

 

[Bill Bauer]

A work is allowed to have political leanings/undertones, even if it's made for children.

But, as far I can tell, even the Soviets hadn't stooped that low.

It's not the same thing as "brainwashing"

It becomes brainwashing if every single cartoon and kids' show begins echoing the same messages.

Stranger Things (whom portrays them as cruel monsters at worst, and simple minded buffoons at best

This is the inverse of an old Soviet joke:

An American tells a Russian:
"We have free speech in America. I can go out in public and yell "Ronald Reagan is a criminal!" and I won't be arrested. "

The Russian replies: "We also have freedom of speech - I can go out in public and yell "Ronald Reagan is a criminal!" and not be arrested"

 

[PhoenixAcademy]

I don't speak Ukrainian. I speak Russian.

Spelling things out would reveal what I disapprove of, and that wouldn't be safe. Canada isn't a free country.

Let's just say that I can't think of any recent movies or TV shows shot in Canada and the US that wouldn't be approved by the Soviet censors.

Soviet movies from 1960s, 70s, and 80s would often have messages that one could see if one were to "read between the lines," and those messages would often be the opposite of the message the movie was supposed to convey. This isn't the case for recent Hollywood movies - all of the messages found in the actual lines and between the lines are trying to achieve the same goal. I don't remember any political brainwashing going on in Soviet children's cartoons. This isn't the case for modern American/Canadian children's cartoons.

Some Russians believe that the West is attempting to force Russia to join it, which these days amounts to restoring that Soviet system with some minor changes (for the worst) (they might be wrong or they might be right about that; they probably don't recognize the current system in the West as being equivalent to the system in the USSR). Some of those Russians believe that Putin might be the only politician standing between them and those "reforms" (they might be wrong or they might be right about That).

Which ones ended up being the most memorable?

If you haven't been to them yet, you have got to see Stagliano cemetery in Genoa as well as the central cemetery in Vienna (where Mozart, and many others are buried).

If you ever decide to visit Italy, check out
https://www.amazon.com/Italian-Memorial-Sculpture-1820-1940-Legacy/dp/071122384X

Not only does this book have photos of beautiful sculptures, but it also lists the best cemeteries in Italy (dozens of cemeteries throughout Italy) to see 19th century memorial sculpture. If you don't want to buy it, you could get it through an inter-library loan.

Wow that is deep for a tinnitus website. I too know a lot about Russian history. Your views are very interesting and probably accurate. What kind of website have I joined here? LOL

 

[OnceUponaTime]

Wow, @Jcb and @Labyrinthine have a lot to catchup when they come back!

 

[Bill Bauer]

I too know a lot about Russian history.

How did you come about this knowledge?

 

[Star64]

Wow, @Jcb and @Labyrinthine have a lot to catchup when they come back!

I just hope they are both keeping safe, and we hear from them soon. Even if it's just a quick I'm ok message

 

[Bill Bauer]

p.s.

in what ways do you see the West becoming the new USSR?

In pretty much every way imaginable. The two differences I can come up with is that international travel hasn't been banned yet and the people in the West are still relatively wealthy. International travel was banned in USSR to ensure that the people wouldn't see what happens when people are free of the Soviet dogma. Since most developed countries aren't free from the modern dogma, there is no reason to ban international travel (we'll see what happens to international travel after COVID-19 is under control). As for people in the West being relatively wealthy that has been changing pretty fast.

 

[PhoenixAcademy]

Bill Bauer. I'm just old and have read a lot of books and looked into stuff. I like learning history.

 

[all to gain]

My dream headstone would say "Fuck off" on it.

Why? Do you hate the world that much? Do you have any family?

Spelling things out would reveal what I disapprove of, and that wouldn't be safe. Canada isn't a free country.

As the only Englishman, and one of the few westerners, living permanently in the city where I live, I would be very surprised if I were not being watched to a certain degree. Does this bother me? Well, I would prefer it if I weren't being watched obviously, but I don't go out of my way to take any special precautions. What am I supposed to do?

Before I could get permanent residency here I had to have an interview with the local FSB (the major successor to the KGB). The man sat across from the table asked me many questions and wondered if it wouldn't be better if I went to live in the UK with my wife. He saw trouble brewing...

However, I say what I want and when I want on the internet and in my daily activities. But as I am not very political things that would maybe get me in trouble do not arise. And if the authorities here wanted to do anything against me they could anyway, even if I have not done anything wrong (which, in my eyes, I have not).

I'm not going through life scared of such things!! Tinnitus and my health and that of my children are of much greater concern to me.

But who knows, maybe the FSB guy was right.

Let's just say that I can't think of any recent movies or TV shows shot in Canada and the US that wouldn't be approved by the Soviet censors.

I can think of many, if not most, films that would not have gotten approved by the Soviet censors. The current Russian censors though are something different.

Some Russians believe that the West is attempting to force Russia to join it, which these days amounts to restoring that Soviet system with some minor changes (for the worst) (they might be wrong or they might be right about that; they probably don't recognize the current system in the West as being equivalent to the system in the USSR). Some of those Russians believe that Putin might be the only politician standing between them and those "reforms" (they might be wrong or they might be right about That).

I know many Russians, obviously, and they come in all different shapes and sizes. I have met plenty who are in real wonder that there is an Englishman living among them. I have often heard, "Most Russians want to move abroad, but here you are! Is it really better here than there? Surely not?" Reading between the lines, what many of these people really want to hear is, "Yes, it's better here!"

Russia and many Russians like to see themselves as special, which I suppose all nations and peoples do. I have often heard, "We aren't like Europeans, we are more from the East". All very well, but I think you'll find that Slavs are Europeans.

What I'm saying is that Russia and some (maybe many) Russians like to set themselves apart from the rest of the world and a law unto themselves. They at once want to be both part of the group but at the same time do not want to follow the rules set by the group.

As I see it, the little fella wants knowing more than to return to the good ol days of the Soviet Union (but one that is even better). He will be deeply ashamed that the Soviet Union lost the Cold War, when he was in the KGB, and will do anything to see a return to glory for Russia. I would think that he probably doesn't even see the Soviet Union as having truly lost and that it is just all part of the ongoing war between East and West, ie that Russia will eventually win. He has already taken back, if that's the right way of phrasing it, Crimea and already has a foothold in the main part of Ukraine. Parts of Georgia are now basically parts of Russia. When Lukashenko dies in Belarus, he will swiftly move in there, too. And then there is the Arctic.

The West is fractured, whereas Russia is led by one man. This gives Russia, in many ways, the advantage of being swift in its actions rather than having to wait for a chain of command from many different countries. The EU has tried to become a superstate, but it is failing greatly. The UK leaving it falls directly into Russia's hands and weakens the EU more.

It is sometimes said that the Russian military and the powers that be are following the work of Alexandr Dugin, ie The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics). Whether this is true or not, I do not know, but some of the events that have occured have a strong resemblance to the plan laid out in that book (here is a Russian version of it -
https://docviewer.yandex.ru/view/0/...3YmM4OWNmZTk3ZjcyYjY1OCZrZXlubz0wIn0=&lang=ru

At the moment, Russia is playing a blinder and will keep doing so until somebody really wants to stop it or do the same back. That does not necessarily mean that the people of Russia are seeing better days though, but you would have to ask them about that.

I think in essence we are saying the same thing but from slightly different positions.

p.s.
In pretty much every way imaginable. The two differences I can come up with is that international travel hasn't been banned yet and the people in the West are still relatively wealthy. International travel was banned in USSR to ensure that the people wouldn't see what happens when people are free of the Soviet dogma. Since most developed countries aren't free from the modern dogma, there is no reason to ban international travel (we'll see what happens to international travel after COVID-19 is under control). As for people in the West being relatively wealthy that has been changing pretty fast.

I do agree that there is a lot of dogma.

However, members of the military here are not allowed to travel abroad, and most of the general population is still too poor to afford travel to western countries.

ps

I think we should maybe leave this discussion and let Chit Chat to go back to how it was

 

[OnceUponaTime]

Had to post a cute animal picture or @Jcb and @Labyrinthine will be mad at us for not posting some.

 

[aot]

 

[all to gain]

I really like this photo. Don't know if it's already been posted.

 

[Shera]

Saw this and thought of @Labyrinthine and @Jcb

 

[Shera]

@OnceUponaTime Ah!! I'm super obsessed with Squirrels. I love feeding them. We don't have them at my place because Mr. Peaches kept the rabbits and squirrels ate/chased off. When he died Yuki didn't give 2 cents about them so I briefly had a squirrel for summer time. Until the Eagles moved in.

It drove my Grandma crazy when I'd feed the squirrels. She had the gorgeous bushy tailed ones! Just got ground squirrels here.

@aot That's so awesome!!

@all to gain Ah! That's so precious!!!!