Choice of Stem Cells

[Rafaa]

Because it did not have a meaningful clinical difference for me. It was great experience for me however.

Are you new to Tinnitus Talk? It's not always so positive - people are struggling, people are depressed, I don't have to tell you how hard tinnitus is.

P.S. Apply some nuances to your list above. Many of those items still help sufferers.

Did you have any signs of healing elsewhere in the body or are you in perfect health otherwise?

Is tinnitus your only ear symptom?

 

[todayistomorrow]

I'd be interested what fetal stem cells done intrathecally may do. EmCell in Ukraine is the only place that offers them. I had gone years prior before I had tinnitus for brain injury. They are definitely the real deal, gave me about 70% improvement in post concussion symptoms from decade old car accident.

Thinking of going back for other health issues, and seeing if it does anything for tinnitus. Unfortunately, doesn't look like safe time to travel to Ukraine with risk of Russia attack, but if things calm down in area, this place may be worth a try.

 

[JPGL]

Is EmCell a trustworthy stem cell clinic?

What does the treatment consist of and how much does it cost?

I went to the EmCell website and it does not make any reference to any treatment for hearing loss or tinnitus.

 

[todayistomorrow]

Is EmCell a trustworthy stem cell clinic?

What does the treatment consist of and how much does it cost?

I went to the EmCell website and it does not make any reference to any treatment for hearing loss or tinnitus.

Yes, EmCell are definitely trustworthy, and much safer than using other types of stem cells to my knowledge.

They do not make any claims for tinnitus, so this is speculative. I find that more trustworthy as they don't make claims for every disease. They just started offering the stem cells intrathecally not too long ago. Since I have other health issues, tinnitus wouldn't be main reason I'm going. I can understand not wanting to take risk financially with no proven track record of treating tinnitus (but who really does).

I talk with the guy who did the documentary there on this place, God Cells: A fetal stem cell journey. You can find it on YouTube or Amazon Prime.

Treatment consist of 3 days of IV and injections in stomach. Cost was 17K.

Of course, now is not a good time to be traveling to Ukraine with Russia conflict so will need tensions to ease and get the green light to travel.

 

[Vincent R]

I'd be interested what fetal stem cells done intrathecally may do. EmCell in Ukraine is the only place that offers them. I had gone years prior before I had tinnitus for brain injury. They are definitely the real deal, gave me about 70% improvement in post concussion symptoms from decade old car accident.

Thinking of going back for other health issues, and seeing if it does anything for tinnitus. Unfortunately, doesn't look like safe time to travel to Ukraine with risk of Russia attack, but if things calm down in area, this place may be worth a try.

Hi,

Could you tell us a bit more about the post concussion symptom and how it improved? How long did it take after the treatment until you started to notice an effect?

I'm highly interested in undergoing stem cell treatment myself, so your input is greatly appreciated

 

[IntotheBlue03]

4 years is a huge gap.

What I do not get, why people around here are so skeptical about everything?

Liam Boehm - bullshit.
TRT - doesn't work.
Earplugs - overprotection.
Earplugs with less then 15 dB - underprotection.
Klonopin - do not dare.
Prednisolone - side effects.
Healthy life style - does not work.
Lenire - a bag of shit.
Dr. Susan Shore - no way it will ever happen.
Turmeric -are you kidding me and etc.

Why are you letting your pessimism to kill someone's hope?

I'm so tired of my own tinnitus, but sometimes when I read this forum, it looks to me that there is no hope at all.

But you do not know that for sure, are you?

Anybody who is still saying that Susan Shore's device is "never going to happen" hasn't been paying attention or is in serious denial.

 

[IntotheBlue03]

I'd be interested what fetal stem cells done intrathecally may do. EmCell in Ukraine is the only place that offers them. I had gone years prior before I had tinnitus for brain injury. They are definitely the real deal, gave me about 70% improvement in post concussion symptoms from decade old car accident.

Thinking of going back for other health issues, and seeing if it does anything for tinnitus. Unfortunately, doesn't look like safe time to travel to Ukraine with risk of Russia attack, but if things calm down in area, this place may be worth a try.

Hi @todayistomorrow.

Happy to hear you've had success otherwise with the treatment. My question is how do you think another treatment may directly/indirectly impact tinnitus? I am looking at this as well and wondering if you don't know the exact cause of your tinnitus how stem cell may help? I think mine is cervical or autoimmune but would like to know your thoughts on this.

For example when you return, would you consider stem cell injection in the ear vs stomach?

 

[todayistomorrow]

Hi,

Could you tell us a bit more about the post concussion symptom and how it improved? How long did it take after the treatment until you started to notice an effect?

I'm highly interested in undergoing stem cell treatment myself, so your input is greatly appreciated

I noticed it 5 days after, the day I woke up after flying back from Ukraine. I woke up, and I had a smile on my face. I'm usually in too much pain to smile or distracted. Everything felt lighter. I went out to breakfast and I made witty banter with the waiter. I thought I was cured. I ended up pushing it too far, and having same problem where I'd crash after doing too much, much like ME/CFS. But my baseline was much higher than previously.

I was able to work again as day trader and I had my most successful year. My libido was improved. My stress response was greatly diminished (which was a good thing).

 

[todayistomorrow]

Hi @todayistomorrow.

Happy to hear you've had success otherwise with the treatment. My question is how do you think another treatment may directly/indirectly impact tinnitus? I am looking at this as well and wondering if you don't know the exact cause of your tinnitus how stem cell may help? I think mine is cervical or autoimmune but would like to know your thoughts on this.

For example when you return, would you consider stem cell injection in the ear vs stomach?

So I know the cause of my tinnitus is CSF leak. I'm sure I have some autoimmune issues from post COVID-19 long haul as well and neuroinflammation as I have adhesive arachnoiditis, an incurable condition.

If I go back, I would do intrathecal stem cells, along with IV, stomach injections, and inhaling them to help repair lung function. Only fetal stem cells can do this.

Perhaps if the stem cells help heal my dura, and resulting CSF leak, it may help. I have so many other issues, that while my tinnitus is disabling and unbearable, I somehow have more pressing health matters.

I do not think they do ear injections and I'll be first admit it's long shot for this to do anything for tinnitus. If I had other health issues, I'd consider this just because I'm a believer in these particular stem cells.

Also, by the looks of it, Ukraine/Russia may be on an ongoing issue. If they are going to attack, it will be in winter.

I felt very safe in Kyiv when I went and was not too difficult to plan this. The guy who did the documentary, Eric Merola, is happy to talk with people and help them plan where to stay, logistics. Can find him on Twitter, and his website has his email.

 

[Vincent R]

I noticed it 5 days after, the day I woke up after flying back from Ukraine. I woke up, and I had a smile on my face. I'm usually in too much pain to smile or distracted. Everything felt lighter. I went out to breakfast and I made witty banter with the waiter. I thought I was cured. I ended up pushing it too far, and having same problem where I'd crash after doing too much, much like ME/CFS. But my baseline was much higher than previously.

I was able to work again as day trader and I had my most successful year. My libido was improved. My stress response was greatly diminished (which was a good thing).

It sounds like the clinic in Ukraine is the real deal, then. Good to know. Tinnitus Talk sure can be an interesting source of information, all thank to its great members and, not to forget, creators.

 

[Myron Baska]

Back in 2013, British scientists found a way of restoring auditory nerve damage by injecting embryonic stem cells. They had success in Gerbils (same hearing range as us). Where is this research at today? Any more progress? Have others also been using/trying stem cells for the "rebuild"?

 

[David S]

If you were a gerbil or a mouse, you would most likely be tinnitus free today. This seems way more difficult to achieve with humans.

Anything with the cochlea which is the body's smallest organ all surrounded by bone seems so damn hard.

 

[SmallRonnie]

I was in contact with StemCells21. I asked a bunch of questions and they said:

Thank you for your email.

For the answers to your questions, it will be best to discuss with the doctor and ask him directly, because he will explain to you better.

Meanwhile, I will give you general information for your questions:

How many patients have you treated for tinnitus?
What severity of tinnitus did they have?
How much did each improve? Any improvements of 100%?
Have you treated any patients for hyperacusis?
What degrees of hyperacusis did the patients have?
What were the results?​

We treated many cases for Tinnitus with various conditions, and most of them they've got improvements. The percentage of their improvements depends on the case and how the patient's body will react.

How long until you notice improvements?​

Usually, the improvement will be noticed within 4-6 months from the treatment day, it will be gradually.

What were the causes of tinnitus or hyperacusis in patients?​

We treated different types of hearing loss problem patients.

As I said, for the first step, if you could fill out our online evaluation form, so I can arrange the video call with the doctor, and you can discuss with him directly all about your concerns for the treatment for your case.

Kindly see the attached file to fill out the form. and you can read more information about our Stem Cells treatment.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask, also if you would like to receive a call from me, please do ask.

Best regards,
xxx​

I'll upload the files here too.

I was waiting to see my ENT here before getting on to these again, but I went through a long wait just to get an MRI which might have slightly made my ear sore again temporarily and for the doctor to recommend CBT and Lenire.

I will need to research Lenire more but I don't think it will help my chronic case much and does nothing for hyperacusis anyway.

I'm going to fill out this form soon and get over to do this ASAP. I will try to get the 300M+ or whatever the most is they will give me lol.

I'm on Nortriptyline right now just so I can sleep. Missed taking it last night and couldn't sleep a wink. Very loud tinnitus gives me massive anxiety tingly feelings when trying to sleep.

I also don't want to just keep taking Nortriptyline forever as it's not a good long term solution and I want to make hyperacusis better if possible.

The only worry I had was maybe stem cells cause tumors but from a little research I have done these type of stem cells are safe.

I'll update about how I get on or I might make a separate thread for it when I am actually going for the treatment.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Because it did not have a meaningful clinical difference for me. It was great experience for me however.

Are you new to Tinnitus Talk? It's not always so positive - people are struggling, people are depressed, I don't have to tell you how hard tinnitus is.

P.S. Apply some nuances to your list above. Many of those items still help sufferers.

Good evening.

I hope you are doing as well as you can be!

How were your stem cells applied? IV?

 

[Travis Henry]

Would IV stem cells with Mannitol added before to make the blood brain barrier leaky for awhile and open for stem cells to get in be worth a try?

 

[SmallRonnie]

Would IV stem cells with Mannitol added before to make the blood brain barrier leaky for awhile and open for stem cells to get in be worth a try?

Is this being offered somewhere specifically?

 

[Travis Henry]

Is this being offered somewhere specifically?

I just called a spot near in Dallas TX that does stem cells.

 

[SmallRonnie]

I also found one lady who recently went for stem cell treatment and I already contacted her to check for an update. If there is any, I will keep you posted.

How is that lady who got the stem cell treatment now?

 

[SmallRonnie]

I just called a spot near in Dallas TX that does stem cells.

There do seem to be a lot of places in the US that do it alright. I'm going to try Anova in Germany but they are kinda strict on who they treat. They don't want treat hearing loss since there's not enough science to back it up but I will argue that with them. There actually is a decent amount of research done on showing stem cells healing hearing loss.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Back in 2013, British scientists found a way of restoring auditory nerve damage by injecting embryonic stem cells. They had success in Gerbils (same hearing range as us). Where is this research at today? Any more progress? Have others also been using/trying stem cells for the "rebuild"?

I really don't understand how they are not researching this more when so much of the early research has been extremely positive. The latest study is those 11 children who got IV MSC and half of them had improved hearing.

My speculation is that there is no monetary incentive to do the research since it is not something you can patent and sell like a drug. Maybe other reasons too, probably extremely underfunded.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Would IV stem cells with Mannitol added before to make the blood brain barrier leaky for awhile and open for stem cells to get in be worth a try?

I found another clinic called OKYANOS who add Mannitol before the IV stem cells when treating issues related to the brain so it makes sense I guess. Could be even better than normal IV treatment.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Would IV stem cells with Mannitol added before to make the blood brain barrier leaky for awhile and open for stem cells to get in be worth a try?

I've been researching stem cell clinics a lot more. Adding Mannitol before the stem cells for neurological disorders is very common and it would probably be good for ear issues too.

What type of stem cells does that clinic offer?

 

[Travis Henry]

I've been researching stem cell clinics a lot more. Adding Mannitol before the stem cells for neurological disorders is very common and it would probably be good for ear issues too.

What type of stem cells does that clinic offer?

Innovations Medical remains a leader in stem cells from your own fat.

 

[AxEars]

If you were a gerbil or a mouse, you would most likely be tinnitus free today. This seems way more difficult to achieve with humans.

Anything with the cochlea which is the body's smallest organ all surrounded by bone seems so damn hard.

FDA has been very recently asked to get away from animal models since what works for mice/rats/etc may not work for us and vice versa. Sadly, this won't happen until after 2030. I'm sure they'll be able to recreate human organs in a lab and do extensive testing to fix damage.

If regeneration can get most of us halfway there in the meantime, we'll take it. Stem cells and hair cell regeneration is a good first step.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Innovations Medical remains a leader in stem cells from your own fat.

The fat stem cells are better than the bone marrow ones anyway. Not sure if fat cells or the umbilical ones are better but I'm leaning towards umbilical cords.

Some people have seen improvements in their tinnitus after fat stem cells but they never are sure if it had just gotten better by itself.

Are you going to try it out?

 

[Travis Henry]

The fat stem cells are better than the bone marrow ones anyway. Not sure if fat cells or the umbilical ones are better but I'm leaning towards umbilical cords.

Some people have seen improvements in their tinnitus after fat stem cells but they never are sure if it had just gotten better by itself.

Are you going to try it out?

It's $8k to try. How long till improvements if I tried? I'm suicidal.

 

[SmallRonnie]

It's $8k to try. How long till improvements if I tried? I'm suicidal.

You might be able to find better clinics for the same money if you travel a bit but I don't know if you can manage travelling. If you can't travel then it's probably worth trying as many people have seen results with it.

It depends on how they administer it. In StemCells21 they do local injections around the ear, IV and intranasal. That seems like a good approach I guess. One person saw improvements within 24 hours after the local injections. Those were umbilical cord cells too though.

Did they say how many million cells do they administer?

It can take maybe 4-6 months to notice results but some people don't really see the most results until 10-12 months. The way they help in some cases is probably regrowing nerves which takes a very long time.

At least 5 or 6 people on this forum saw good results from stem cells but most of them were umbilical cord, it might not make a massive difference if it's fat.

This is what a clinic sent me recently:

I had to check in with our physician team more specifically regarding your concerns. It appears tinnitus & hyperacusis have seen results with stem cell treatments, yes, but they are inconsistent. We don't always get results when we treat primarily for tinnitus, however when we are treating for a different primary concern we sometimes get a bonus benefit of a patient's tinnitus resolving. So it's a strange one. We would say it's definitely worth trying if the expense of the stem cells won't break the bank, especially if you have any aches / joint pains / or other concerns we can help with at the same time. Otherwise it's not something we ordinarily recommend for a patient saving up for stem cell therapy because we just can't guarantee it will do anything for the ear. Wish I could give a more consistent result, but I hope that helps!

 

[KotaDomowa]

In fact, I wonder if there is any point in going to any clinic other than StemCells21. I don't know of any other clinic that the people on this forum have had a good result after visiting.

 

[SmallRonnie]

In fact, I wonder if there is any point in going to any clinic other than StemCells21. I don't know of any other clinic that the people on this forum have had a good result after visiting.

@DebInAustralia had good results from some other clinic but wasn't sure if it was really because of the stem cells or just natural healing.

@Cal18 had good results from a stem cell doctor in California but the improvements were minimal in her own words. Those were only short term improvements that were minimal though, so maybe long term it will be better which is usually the case.

I don't see any reason why another clinic offering similar treatment wouldn't also be good. IV seems to be effective but local injections are probably even better and that is the biggest advantage to StemCells21 in my mind.

It should be possible to convince a doctor to give local injections based on this research. Clinics always say they don't specifically treat hearing issues because of the lack of research so if they are presented with research like this then they have no reason not to attempt that treatment since everything they do is based off of research anyway.

I also heard people had improvements in tinnitus when getting treatment for different main issues in DVC Stem. I heard stories from many different clinics that people seen an improvement in tinnitus when getting other main issues treated.

I think it's more important to just find legitimate clinics since there are a lot of scam clinics or maybe some that have bad standards. StemCells21 is definitely a safe option. It is on the more expensive side but they claim that is because they offer passage 1 stem cells.

I think most other clinics offer passage 3-4 but I don't know for sure and it probably varies a lot. I spoke about this in the other stem cell thread. There is research done on comparing the passages and I don't think the difference between passage 1 and 3-4 is that big but I didn't look into it a whole lot yet.

 

[Engel]

@SmallRonnie, do you know some people from this forum who did the tinnitus treatment by StemCells21? And what where their results?