Clonazepam (Klonopin, Rivotril)

[RaZaH]

Sure, I get it , my comment was not very helpful. Sorry bout that .
I have strong opinions on this stuff and not just regarding how to quit.
I might need to choose when and how I state those opinions.

Best of luck to Alex.
Peace

 

[Alex Senkowski]

Sure, I get it , my comment was not very helpful. Sorry bout that .
I have strong opinions on this stuff and not just regarding how to quit.
I might need to choose when and how I state those opinions.

Best of luck to Alex.
Peace

I haven't been to this thread since Saturday and didn't know you guys were talking about me. RaZaH, I'm sorry that Clonazepam made your ailments worse, but right now it's my best bet for stabilizing myself and all I can hope for is that I won't experience anything akin to what you went through. I have congenital hearing loss on top of the T, so the thought of the med making things worse is absolutely terrifying. I've resumed tapering off Clonazepam at a much slower pace and am feeling fine aside from the occasional minuscule spike.

 

[RaZaH]

Yeah man, just taper very slowly and you should be fine.
I got bad advice from my Doctor which told me to quit C/T.

 

[Alex Senkowski]

By the way, is Clonazepam officially listed as being an ototoxic drug? I can't find a straight answer on the internet, just conflicting information.

 

[Alex Senkowski]

Yeah man, just taper very slowly and you should be fine.
I got bad advice from my Doctor which told me to quit C/T.

Yeah, my first attempt at a taper ended in an abrupt cold-turkey. That led to four shitty days that I hope didn't cause any permanent damage.

 

[RaZaH]

I feel that if I would have resumed a taper when I discovered the extreme shitstorm of quitting C/T I would have been fine.
I base that on reading a LOT on the subject , most people that do not try and endure the C/T seem to be just fine.

 

[mick]

I might have said this before, even in this thread but I would not touch this stuff if my life depended on it.
Apart from the fact that my T started after quitting this crap , I feel it has affected my cognative abilities.
Most noticable when I am writing , I mess up a lot and when doing problem solving and deeper thinking.

There is definitely a reason it is called the "hell pill" at benzobuddys.

I'm with you on this RaZaH. I think in general benzos are bad medicine in the sense that most doctors who prescribe them do not know what they are doing. I think the stories in this topic alone make that clear. Benzos have their place, and can be used one's benefit, but the patient needs to know the pitfalls. Doctors should be obligated to explain them to the patient. Unfortunately most doctors are ignorant of the downsides and troubles this class of drugs can cause. I seriously think it should be a requirement for doctors who want to prescribe the meds to take it for 3 months and then quit cold turkey so they can fully understand the situation.

General comment on the ototoxicity of clonaz, xanax, and the like: there is lot's of conflicting evidence. For every reputable document saying it is ototoxic, one can find a document from a reputable source that says it is not, or at least makes no mention of it in lists of other ototoxic drugs. The bottom line is that no one has ever done a good study to prove ototoxicity. The evidence of such drugs causes T is all anecdotal. That doesn't mean there isn't a connection, only that a good scientific study has never been done. Of course the makers of such drugs will do what they can to prevent such studies from being done. The fact may be that the drugs can cause tinnitus without being ototoxic. Ototoxic implies it cause damage to some part of the ear, whereas some tinnitus may be caused entirely by brain neuron damage/malfunction or brain chemistry changes. Clearly, benzos by their nature have the potential of causing either.

 

[RaZaH]

yes indeed , in fact I would rather rely on "anecdotal evidence" or user experiences than a random doctor that has no clue.

 

[Hudson]

I still take .4625 mg of Clonazepam a night. I'm cutting it back slooooowly, and on my terms. I wish I had not started taking it, but the panic and anxiety I was experiencing when I began taking it were severely interfering with my ability to work and sleep, which was not a good thing. I didn't have the option of just quitting work, or not sleeping. So I chose to go the clonazepam route. Hopefully I can slowly cut back on it. My problem has been that every time I've cut back to a certain point, I experience another bout of significant anxiety because of one life situation or another. I suppose I just have to man up and do it, because there's never a perfect time to do anything in life.

I think the benzos can be a good thing if used sparingly. The problem arises if a person starts taking them daily in my opinion, and that is the boat I'm in.

 

[Grace]

My doc said he knows some people that have to be on them for years cause of the anixety they have... I feel its only dangerous if you overabuse and if you take what your supose to its for medical reasoning so your fine. Ive been on .5 to 1 mg for 2 years now and no need to up it cause it still works great for me. And i dont overbuse and take them like once a week so even if you can cut back some like instead using everyday try everyother then that could work for some too. My anxiety is horrible so i keep these things on me at all times just in casee

 

[Valentin]

Feeling much better today. My T has receded back to a comfortable low-pitch droning that's actually rather soothing. The tablets of Clonazepam I have are .05mg, my plan is to begin my tapering with .15mg then cut it by half a tablet every three days until I run out. Recommendations?

10% per week is what is usually recommended

 

[Golly]

10% per week is what is usually recommended

I take 1mg of Klonapin twice a week. It always has the same effect, which is to give me a very deep, relaxing sleep. I almost always have a quiet day when I wake up. I don't know why this works with me but it does. My doctor and I are both comfortable with this dose and this frequency.

-Golly

 

[Grace]

I take 1mg of Klonapin twice a week. It always has the same effect, which is to give me a very deep, relaxing sleep. I almost always have a quiet day when I wake up. I don't know why this works with me but it does. My doctor and I are both comfortable with this dose and this frequency.

-Golly

Thats about what i take but usually .5 twice a week and im good on that. And i notice when i take it i turn off the tv and fan so its complete silent in my room and i have mild T so i usually can hear a lil hissin ring but when i take them its like almost complete silence and takes my mind off T completly. Like last night i took one at 9 at night and can still feel the effects of it today and still mostly relaxed/sleepy and my T is barely there in quiet rooms still. Weird how that happens.

 

[Alex Senkowski]

10% per week is what is usually recommended

10% of what dosage? I've got .05mg tablets am now taking two and a half tablets a day. What do you recommend?

 

[Golly]

10% of what dosage? I've got .05mg tablets am now taking two and a half tablets a day. What do you recommend?

I suspect you mean 0.5mg tablets. I think Valentin is suggesting that you reduce by 10% of the original dose every week. That is, spend a week at 0.5mg. Then go down to 0.45mg for a week, then go to 0.40mg for a week, and so on.

-G

 

[Valentin]

10% of what dosage? I've got .05mg tablets am now taking two and a half tablets a day. What do you recommend?

your tablets must be 0.5, if it was 0.05 you could quit cold turkey anytime

so you're at 1.250mg a day for a week, then you remove 0.125 for a week, then remove again 0.125 for a week

when you reach 0.125mg a day for a week, then slow down to 0.062 for a week then 0.03 for another week and then quit.

you should of course ask your doctors what they think about that before doing it.

 

[Alex Senkowski]

your tablets must be 0.5, if it was 0.05 you could quit cold turkey anytime

so you're at 1.250mg a day for a week, then you remove 0.125 for a week, then remove again 0.125 for a week

when you reach 0.125mg a day for a week, then slow down to 0.062 for a week then 0.03 for another week and then quit.

you should of course ask your doctors what they think about that before doing it.

I'm pretty certain that the tablets are 0.05mg, but I'll check the bottle when I get home tonight. Even if it is such a small dose, the four days of cold-turkey where still pretty rough.

 

[Hudson]

I'm pretty certain that the tablets are 0.05mg, but I'll check the bottle when I get home tonight. Even if it is such a small dose, the four days of cold-turkey where still pretty rough.

There are no .05 mg tablets manufactured or prescribed anywhere in the world. That is such a small dose it could in no way be considered therapeutic. You have to be taking .5 mg tablets.

 

[Alex Senkowski]

There are no .05 mg tablets manufactured or prescribed anywhere in the world. That is such a small dose it could in no way be considered therapeutic. You have to be taking .5 mg tablets.

Yeah, you're right; I've got the 0.5mg tablets. I'm currently taking 2 and a half tablets a day and Valentin recommends I should cut down on half a tablet each week. Is that all right?

 

[Hudson]

Yeah, you're right; I've got the 0.5mg tablets. I'm currently taking 2 and a half tablets a day and Valentin recommends I should cut down on half a tablet each week. Is that all right?

There are no hard and fast rules with benzo tapering. I would suggest cutting .125 mg (1/4 of 1 - .5 mg tablet) and seeing how you feel. If you are doing pretty well two weeks later, try cutting it down again. Slow and steady wins the race. As you get down into lower amounts, you may need to make your cuts smaller as a .125 mg cut becomes a larger portion of your total as you get into lower doses.

 

[dan26]

i have taken clonazepam for about 10 years. it was suggested to me or an article i read somewhere in the past about it helping T. I take 1/2 of a .5mg pill at night. It doesnt help the T but it helps calm me down to get to sleep when the T is driving me nuts. I read an article on pubmed suggesting taking 1 pill for 3 days then increasing the dosage till you get relief.
I might start taking the full pill and then see how it works or doesnt work. i know it can increase drowsiness so i cant be all doped up and do things during the day.

 

[mick]

My doc said he knows some people that have to be on them for years cause of the anixety they have... I feel its only dangerous if you overabuse and if you take what your supose to its for medical reasoning so your fine. Ive been on .5 to 1 mg for 2 years now and no need to up it cause it still works great for me. And i dont overbuse and take them like once a week so even if you can cut back some like instead using everyday try everyother then that could work for some too. My anxiety is horrible so i keep these things on me at all times just in casee

I don't want to upset the applecart for someone if their drug regimen is working for them, but let me throw this bit of information out there. It's not new, and I unfortunately cannot point to a study that backs it up (at least I can't do it without spending the time to find such studies again - you can search the net on your own), but there is good anecdotal evidence to back it up throughout the net and my own experience. Benzo withdrawal creates all the same feelings as true anxiety, and benzo withdrawal can occur after even very short term usage. If you are finding that your anxiety occurs at a regular interval after stopping the drug (say on the 5th day you feel anxious so you pop one, then 5 days later the same thing), or if you find that you are taking it at regular intervals (say every 5th day) even though your intention is only to take it when you are anxious, then you might look into whether it is withdrawal from the drug that is causing your anxiety, and not true anxiety.

Recognize that the way these drugs work is to satisfy GABA receptors. When you take them, your body slows down its production of GABA. When you stop taking them, if your body is not able to replenish GABA stores fast enough, you will experience anxiety just as if you were faced with a real mental/emotional anxiety stimulus. It can come on very fast just like a panic attack. The period when withdrawal occurs is dependent on the half life of the drug. I picked 5 days in my examples, because that is about the length of time that passes before significant withdrawal symptoms begin when you stop taking clonazepam. That's what I experienced when I took clonaz for a short time, and others I have talked to experienced the same. For alprazolam, the interval was about 2.5-3 days for me. Not everyone experiences withdrawal symptoms, but many do, and many get stuck on the drug because they do not realize that it is drug withdrawal that is the problem, not some underlying anxiety issue. For both clonazepam and alprazolam, once I successfully tapered off the drugs, the periodic anxiety episodes went away.

Now if you know that you have some underlying issue, and the drug is working for you, then good for you that you have something that works. I still caution that benzos are drugs that one should not take if you absolutely do not have to. They were never designed or intended for long term use.) If on the other hand you find yourself getting anxious on some regular interval and don't know why, then you might want to consider whether you're actually suffering from withdrawal.

Just a thought from someone who has been there - twice.

 

[JohnG]

I don't want to upset the applecart for someone if their drug regimen is working for them, but let me throw this bit of information out there. It's not new, and I unfortunately cannot point to a study that backs it up (at least I can't do it without spending the time to find such studies again - you can search the net on your own), but there is good anecdotal evidence to back it up throughout the net and my own experience. Benzo withdrawal creates all the same feelings as true anxiety, and benzo withdrawal can occur after even very short term usage. If you are finding that your anxiety occurs at a regular interval after stopping the drug (say on the 5th day you feel anxious so you pop one, then 5 days later the same thing), or if you find that you are taking it at regular intervals (say every 5th day) even though your intention is only to take it when you are anxious, then you might look into whether it is withdrawal from the drug that is causing your anxiety, and not true anxiety.

Recognize that the way these drugs work is to satisfy GABA receptors. When you take them, your body slows down its production of GABA. When you stop taking them, if your body is not able to replenish GABA stores fast enough, you will experience anxiety just as if you were faced with a real mental/emotional anxiety stimulus. It can come on very fast just like a panic attack. The period when withdrawal occurs is dependent on the half life of the drug. I picked 5 days in my examples, because that is about the length of time that passes before significant withdrawal symptoms begin when you stop taking clonazepam. That's what I experienced when I took clonaz for a short time, and others I have talked to experienced the same. For alprazolam, the interval was about 2.5-3 days for me. Not everyone experiences withdrawal symptoms, but many do, and many get stuck on the drug because they do not realize that it is drug withdrawal that is the problem, not some underlying anxiety issue. For both clonazepam and alprazolam, once I successfully tapered off the drugs, the periodic anxiety episodes went away.

Now if you know that you have some underlying issue, and the drug is working for you, then good for you that you have something that works. I still caution that benzos are drugs that one should not take if you absolutely do not have to. They were never designed or intended for long term use.) If on the other hand you find yourself getting anxious on some regular interval and don't know why, then you might want to consider whether you're actually suffering from withdrawal.

Just a thought from someone who has been there - twice.

Hi Mick,

Yep...when I got off of Zolpidem, I had a much worse withdrawal than the time I came off of Xanax. I believe something in the GABA receptors being downregulated triggered my ototoxcity. Except I am not sure of the pathogenesis but I'm sure it was the drug and these Z drugs also bind to GABA receptors. Which is why I got high and calm before sleep. It worked like a hammer but now I value my natural sleep. I can't imagine ever going onto another Z drug or benzo again .....except in the case where I have to fly...I hate flying so I go to my family doc and get 5 benzos...no more no less. That stuff is poison pure and simple...which is why most docs will almost never prescribe them. Addiction can be extremely bad.

 

[kevin b]

Hi Mick,

Yep...when I got off of Zolpidem, I had a much worse withdrawal than the time I came off of Xanax. I believe something in the GABA receptors being downregulated triggered my ototoxcity. Except I am not sure of the pathogenesis but I'm sure it was the drug and these Z drugs also bind to GABA receptors. Which is why I got high and calm before sleep. It worked like a hammer but now I value my natural sleep. I can't imagine ever going onto another Z drug or benzo again .....except in the case where I have to fly...I hate flying so I go to my family doc and get 5 benzos...no more no less. That stuff is poison pure and simple...which is why most docs will almost never prescribe them. Addiction can be extremely bad.

you must be talking about Canada because in the US valium, zanxax, klonopin, ect are the 1 most prescribed class of meds?

 

[JohnG]

you must be talking about Canada because in the US valium, zanxax, klonopin, ect are the 1 most prescribed class of meds?

Maybe so. They really cracked down here. Even if I need just 5....5 pills for a trip on a plane...I have to do a lot of convincing to the doc. But I appreciate the ban on benzos...they should never be used for more than a few days.

 

[cullenbohannon]

My experience with xanax is quite different then what many on here post. I've been using it since my t onset, to me it's been a miracle drug. I used them everyday at first now much less often, I haven't had any serious adverse effects.

 

[kevin b]

I agree, benzos are very safe taken properly and you could probably ask millions of people who would tell you how much they have helped. I take 2 .05 klonopins a day right now to help with the overwhelming anxiety. it is better to try to keep your anxiety under control then to let it spread. I am sorry but my opinion when people bash meds on this forum I believe they are scaring other people who may need the help right now and will not because of the fear. Yes,meds should not be the first and only option and they certainly are not perfect, but overall if they didn't work properly the majority of the time why are they still being used by millions successfully? People die from taking aspirin so nothing is perfect

 

[cullenbohannon]

Also I forget the exact percentage but I read somewhere when people have a bad experience with a product, they tell on average 8 people, someone with a good experience will tell 1-3 people on average. So I do think people who have a neg experience are more likely to speak up about these things while others will not. It's good that people know the risks for sure but I agree with kevinb it can scare people who may need the drug

 

[JohnG]

I agree that they are necessary ..very much so. I need them from time to time. People should use wisely...maybe not scared off the drug but scared of abuse. Then it probably will work out ok. An acid test is, if I stop this drug, do I feel ok for a few weeks not being on it? Can I stop? Just make sure you rule the drug not the other way around.

 

[mick]

I agree, benzos are very safe taken properly and you could probably ask millions of people who would tell you how much they have helped. I take 2 .05 klonopins a day right now to help with the overwhelming anxiety. it is better to try to keep your anxiety under control then to let it spread. I am sorry but my opinion when people bash meds on this forum I believe they are scaring other people who may need the help right now and will not because of the fear. Yes,meds should not be the first and only option and they certainly are not perfect, but overall if they didn't work properly the majority of the time why are they still being used by millions successfully? People die from taking aspirin so nothing is perfect

Very few medications are harmless. If they were they would not come with the long list of written warnings in the prescribing pamphlets (that's all the information that your doctor should discuss with you but does not). As kevinb points out, you can die from taking aspirin. Taking medications is always a risk; it is always a tradeoff or balancing act. You have to weigh the risks against the benefit. Each individual has to do that for themselves. You absolutely, however, cannot count on a doctor to do that because they simply cannot make value judgements for you when they do not know your values. Only you can do that. If I had fully known the risks of taking Xanax, I would have never taken it. If I had fully known the risks of the medical procedure that my doctor recommended that has devastated my life, I would, I would never have agreed to it. I was never informed of the risk. If you are one of the minority who suffers a negative consequence a drug they just write you one of the unlucky few who suffer because medicine is an imperfect science. They make no attempt to warn you, nor do they attempt to explain their rationale behind their assessment of the risks vs the benefits. They will take no responsibilty if you are harmed. If as a patient you trust your doctor, and want him make decisions for you, and are able to live with any negative consequences of his judgement, then everything is copacetic. If you're like me and have been harmed by doctors who don't know what they are doing, then you want to know and understand the risks, and make decisions for yourself in an informed way.

I think it is debatable that millions of people are taking benzodiazepines "successfully". There is a reason that this class of drugs are prescribed very sparingly in places like Canada and much of Europe.