Clonazepam (Klonopin, Rivotril)

[Alex Senkowski]

Still continuing my slow taper off Clonazepam. I'm down to a single tablet(0.5) a day and cut it by half a tablet each week. The withdrawal effects are mild and I've been able to sleep well without using my usual sleep med, Remeron. I think I'm finally beginning to habitate to the T. I want to thank the people on this thread who in guided me on how to properly taper off the drug.

 

[Martin69]

Hi all.
Taking 30 mg Remeron for sleeping and against depression.
I am still full with anxiety. Anything you would recommend?
Less Remeron and then Lyrica?
I have Clonazepam here, but want avoid taking them.
They should only be used in emergency case.
Btw, Clonazepam also reduced my T.
I was like a completely other person - like before.
Thanks, Martin

 

[Denise Muller]

You are more likely to have protracted withdrawal symptoms if you quit cold turkey , I was sort of expecting that but thought it would be mental issues rather than physical ones . I was wrong.

I would like to add that on Benzo forums people refer to Benzos as "The devils pill" . I hate benzos , turned me into a vegetable , but , each to his own.

Been on benzo a long time for balance problems. 1.5 ... But does nothing now... Very hard to get off... Never wanted to go on them but did since i had no choice

 

[Ringer]

I take one clonazepam .5 mg on an "as needed" basis to help me fall asleep and it often helps although its not a panacea. Nothing worse than trying to fall asleep with the ringing screaming in your ears. Ginkgo did nothing for me. I'm now trying bioflavonoids. Nothing so far but I'm in the early stages. I also take nortriptyline regularly at night and have for years. It think it's diabolical that anytime anyone says that something helps it also can worsen or cause the tinnitus. Like we're all screwed no matter what.

May 23, 2012
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22626945

Abstract​

Objective
To assess the effect of Ginkgo biloba and clonazepam, a γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA)-receptor agonist, upon tinnitus.

Methods
This was an open-label, randomised, crossover study. 27 men and 11 women (aged 16-80 (mean 58)) with tinnitus for more than 2 months were enrolled. Participants were randomised to either clonazepam or G biloba for the first 3 weeks. For the next 2 weeks of washout no medication was taken. For the final 3 weeks, subjects were given the other drug. The initial dose of clonazepam and G biloba was one tablet daily (clonazepam 0.5 mg; G biloba 40 mg). Subjects were instructed to increase the dose by one tablet every 3 days to a maximum of four tablets daily until they perceived a satisfactory decrease in tinnitus loudness or intolerable side effects. Tinnitus was assessed with pitch and loudness matching, tinnitus handicap inventory, and visual analogue scales of loudness, duration and annoyance.

Results
Comparing before and after each drug, clonazepam significantly improved tinnitus loudness (74% of subjects), duration (63%), annoyance (79%), and tinnitus handicap inventory score (61%), whereas the G biloba showed no significant differences on any of these measures.

Conclusion
Clonazepam is effective in treating tinnitus; G biloba is ineffective.


Not surprising about Ginkgo....
Anyone had luck this good with Clonazepam?

 

[Alex Senkowski]

Alright, still tapering off of Clonazepam. The slower the better, right? I am still taking half a 0.5mg tablet each day and will continue to do so until my ample supply runs out. Should a wait until it's all gone or should I cut it altogether because I'm now down to the smallest dose?

 

[alifalijohn]

Alright, still tapering off of Clonazepam. The slower the better, right? I am still taking half a 0.5mg tablet each day and will continue to do so until my ample supply runs out. Should a wait until it's all gone or should I cut it altogether because I'm now down to the smallest dose?

I have taken this drugs 0.5 for 10 days , did not like it, went cold turkey, but it was hard, the slower the better, right now , iam on Apo-trazodone for two nights...25 per night, it has help.but I do not want o be on drugs , I am going to a herberlist next week to help me with the sleeping..check with your doc. about Apo-trazodone. Any info. is much appreciated , thanks for listening. Take care

 

[mick]

Alright, still tapering off of Clonazepam. The slower the better, right? I am still taking half a 0.5mg tablet each day and will continue to do so until my ample supply runs out. Should a wait until it's all gone or should I cut it altogether because I'm now down to the smallest dose?

You should be able to cut your pills into something smaller than half. I was cutting 0.5 mg pills of Xanax into eighths. And even at that dose (0.0625 mg) I experienced some withdrawal symptoms on stopping. But that was Xanax, not Clonzepam. Fortunately those symptoms only lasted for a couple of days and they were fairly mild. Once I got through that, I still had symptoms every now and then for a couple of months, and others I've talked to experienced the same. Once I got past that point, I was completely free. You could also go to taking half a pill every other day instead of everyday (that's what one doctor suggested to me). Some people even go as far as to dissolve the pill in water to cut the dosage to smaller amounts than you can cut a single pill. I felt that the dissolving in water thing might be a bit tricky. I was worried that it may not dissolve that well in water and might not create a homegenous solution (the bottom part of the mixture might be more potent than tht top, or vice versa). Many drugs are not water soluble - that's the reason so many liquid drugs contain alcohol.

Since clonazepam has a longer half life than Xanax, stopping now might be fine. You can try, and if you feel withdrawal symptoms then just go back to taking 0.5 mg for a while, then cut it again. The key to getting off of benzos (from my experience and what I've read) is to avoid going back up more than one notch. If you experience withdrawal, go back to what you were taking. If that doesn't stop the withdrawal, go up one notch, but try reasonably hard to avoid giving up more ground than that. If you have to give up that much ground, then you are probably not ready to withdraw from the drug, and should stay on it longer (assuming you're taking it for anxiety and not just for relief from T).

My discalimer: I'm not a medical doctor or healthcare provider of any kind. I am not legally qualified to give medical advice. My comments are based solely on my own experience, information that others in similar situation have told me, and what I have picked up on web sites, books, magazine articles, and journal articles of my own choosing.

 

[Alex Senkowski]

You should be able to cut your pills into something smaller than half. I was cutting 0.5 mg pills of Xanax into eighths. And even at that dose (0.0625 mg) I experienced some withdrawal symptoms on stopping. But that was Xanax, not Clonzepam. Fortunately those symptoms only lasted for a couple of days and they were fairly mild. Once I got through that, I still had symptoms every now and then for a couple of months, and others I've talked to experienced the same. Once I got past that point, I was completely free. You could also go to taking half a pill every other day instead of everyday (that's what one doctor suggested to me). Some people even go as far as to dissolve the pill in water to cut the dosage to smaller amounts than you can cut a single pill. I felt that the dissolving in water thing might be a bit tricky. I was worried that it may not dissolve that well in water and might not create a homegenous solution (the bottom part of the mixture might be more potent than tht top, or vice versa). Many drugs are not water soluble - that's the reason so many liquid drugs contain alcohol.

Since clonazepam has a longer half life than Xanax, stopping now might be fine. You can try, and if you feel withdrawal symptoms then just go back to taking 0.5 mg for a while, then cut it again. The key to getting off of benzos (from my experience and what I've read) is to avoid going back up more than one notch. If you experience withdrawal, go back to what you were taking. If that doesn't stop the withdrawal, go up one notch, but try reasonably hard to avoid giving up more ground than that. If you have to give up that much ground, then you are probably not ready to withdraw from the drug, and should stay on it longer (assuming you're taking it for anxiety and not just for relief from T).

My discalimer: I'm not a medical doctor or healthcare provider of any kind. I am not legally qualified to give medical advice. My comments are based solely on my own experience, information that others in similar situation have told me, and what I have picked up on web sites, books, magazine articles, and journal articles of my own choosing.

Thanks for taking the time to inform me. Is it okay to occasionally take a higher dose? I've steadily been taking half a 0.5mg tablet but took 0.12mg on Saturday night. Was that okay?

 

[Golly]

Thanks for taking the time to inform me. Is it okay to occasionally take a higher dose? I've steadily been taking half a 0.5mg tablet but took 0.12mg on Saturday night. Was that okay?

Half a 0.5mg tablet is 0.25mg, which is more than 0.12mg you said you took on Saturday. Did you mean to write something else? In answer to your question more generally, I suspect it is the dosing trend that matters. I am not an expert in these matters (and you should always consult your doctor before taking advice on TT), but I believe that occasional moderate deviations from the steady dosing trend should not be harmful. -G

 

[Alex Senkowski]

Half a 0.5mg tablet is 0.25mg, which is more than 0.12mg you said you took on Saturday. Did you mean to write something else? In answer to your question more generally, I suspect it is the dosing trend that matters. I am not an expert in these matters (and you should always consult your doctor before taking advice on TT), but I believe that occasional moderate deviations from the steady dosing trend should not be harmful. -G

What I meant was that I took a tablet and a half.

 

[Grace]

I look at this way, if you have chronic pain you take pain medication to help cause who wants to live with
Chronic pain? If you have tinnitus that greatly effects you then benzos
Are the nearest help to ease the anxiety and sometimes even really helps calm down the noise. Some can ease there anxiety without them but for others that cant, why live in misery if you can at least have something to help even if a little all for medical purposes, cause T is afterall a medical condition just like chronic pain except mentally and sometimes the mentality of that can be worse off. I know a 70 something lady with chronic pain that has been on pain killers for the past 20 years, and her doctors wont take her off cause she has pain so therefore will remain probably for the rest of her life.. Doesnt fully take away the pain
But it helps to an extent, therefore dont see anything wrong with being on benzos daily if taken to help treat a mentally chronic condition.

 

[Littlebailey]

How do you cut these pills for smaller doses? Especially into 1/8ths? Won't the pill just crumble into bits at that size?

Don't they make them in small sizes to start with, say .25 grams or whatnot, so that cutting and certainly tapering is more practical and easier to do?

 

[mick]

Thanks for taking the time to inform me. Is it okay to occasionally take a higher dose? I've steadily been taking half a 0.5mg tablet but took 0.12mg on Saturday night. Was that okay?

The idea is just to keep on a downward trend if you want to withdraw from the stuff without side effects or difficulty. There is evidence that every time you return to taking benzos, or increase your dosage significantly for long periods of time, the harder it is to withdraw. I am certain that you have not harmed yourself or your ability to withdraw by going from taking 0.25 mg to taking 0.75 mg one time. That kind of a jump might give you some more intense withdrawal if you go back to taking 0.25 mg again immediately rather than tapering down again, but it just depends how sensitive you are to it.

It sounds like you are doing okay, so no harm, no foul so to speak. Good luck!

 

[Alex Senkowski]

The idea is just to keep on a downward trend if you want to withdraw from the stuff without side effects or difficulty. There is evidence that every time you return to taking benzos, or increase your dosage significantly for long periods of time, the harder it is to withdraw. I am certain that you have not harmed yourself or your ability to withdraw by going from taking 0.25 mg to taking 0.75 mg one time. That kind of a jump might give you some more intense withdrawal if you go back to taking 0.25 mg again immediately rather than tapering down again, but it just depends how sensitive you are to it.

It sounds like you are doing okay, so no harm, no foul so to speak. Good luck!

Thank you!

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Yeah, you're right; I've got the 0.5mg tablets. I'm currently taking 2 and a half tablets a day and Valentin recommends I should cut down on half a tablet each week. Is that all right?

Alex, just out of curiosity ...

Why are you turning for advice about something as serious as discontinuing benzodiazepines from folks on a message board (well-meaning though they may be) who have no medical training and who moreover know nothing about your overall medical status instead of seeking advice from your own physician, who has personally evaluated you and who knows you well?

Stephen Nagler

 

[Valentin]

Alex, just out of curiosity ...

Why are you turning for advice about something as serious as discontinuing benzodiazepines from folks on a message board (well-meaning though they may be) who have no medical training and who moreover know nothing about your overall medical status instead of seeking advice from your own physician, who has personally evaluated you and who knows you well?

Stephen Nagler

that's certainly because his physician advised him to stop cold turkey

 

[yonkapin]

This is the bible when it comes to benzodiazpine withdrawal: http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/ - The Ashton Manual

 

[Dr. Nagler]

that's certainly because his physician advised him to stop cold turkey.

Then he needs to fire his physician.

Stephen Nagler

 

[Grace]

There are unfortunetly doctors out there who don't educate their patients about the dangers of withdraw. :-/

 

[Dr. Nagler]

There are unfortunetly doctors out there who don't educate their patients about the dangers of withdraw. :-/

Right. And it's even more unfortunate when under such circumstances instead of changing doctors one chooses to turn to a message board for advice on how to manage one's medications.

Yea, I'm biased. But I think it's an incredibly dangerous practice.

Stephen Nagler

 

[MikeA]

Then he needs to fire his physician.

Stephen Nagler

If more people took this type of approach to their health care there would be less suffering in the world. Take charge, become educated, ask questions, retain the best possible and run, do not walk, from anyone that dispenses bad advice or appears to not know what they are doing. A minority for sure but they are out there.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

If more people took this type of approach to their health care there would be less suffering in the world. Take charge, become educated, ask questions, retain the best possible and run, do not walk, from anyone that dispenses bad advice or appears to not know what they are doing. A minority for sure but they are out there.

I agree, save for the fact that anybody - including doctors - is entitled to be wrong once in a while or have a bad hair day. The acid test, in my opinion, is whether or not the doctor is willing to listen to you and do some research on your behalf in order to "get it right."

Stephen Nagler

 

[Alex Senkowski]

Alex, just out of curiosity ...

Why are you turning for advice about something as serious as discontinuing benzodiazepines from folks on a message board (well-meaning though they may be) who have no medical training and who moreover know nothing about your overall medical status instead of seeking advice from your own physician, who has personally evaluated you and who knows you well?

Stephen Nagler

Because I want advice from people who actually USE the drug.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Because I want advice from people who actually USE the drug.

How do you know that the "people who actually USE the drug" are USING it properly? How do you know that the tapering protocol that may have worked for them isn't going to get you into some real trouble? And if it does get you into trouble, where are you going to turn next - to another board perhaps?

Stephen Nagler

 

[Alex Senkowski]

How do you know that the "people who actually USE the drug" are USING it properly? How do you know that the tapering protocol that may have worked for them isn't going to get you into some real trouble? And if it does get you into trouble, where are you going to turn next - to another board perhaps?

Stephen Nagler

You're right, I don't know. What I do know is that doctors can be wrong too, and they've been wrong quite a bit in my case. You said earlier that doctors are entitled to be wrong, well, my audiologist was wrong and now I'm stuck with partially impaired hearing on top of the T. Being wrong just ONCE was enough for him to put me on the road to disability. And the doctors who advised me about the the clonazepam were either wrong or of the same opinion as the people on this message board. You say I shouldn't trust all of the opinions on message boards but now I know for a fact that doctors can be equally dubious. WHOSE OPINION CAN I COMPLETELY TRUST?

 

[Dr. Nagler]

You're right, I don't know. What I do know is that doctors can be wrong too, and they've been wrong quite a bit in my case. You said earlier that doctors are entitled to be wrong, well, my audiologist was wrong and now I'm stuck with partially impaired hearing on top of the T. Being wrong just ONCE was enough for him to put me on the road to disability. And the doctors who advised me about the the clonazepam were either wrong or of the same opinion as the people on this message board. You say I shouldn't trust all of the opinions on message boards but now I know for a fact that doctors can be equally dubious. WHOSE OPINION CAN I COMPLETELY TRUST?

Your chance of getting an educated meaningful opinion regarding a medical concern is far greater if you obtain that opinion from a licensed physician board certified in that specialty who has personally examined and evaluated you than if you get it from an Internet site.

But if you want a source you can "COMPLETELY TRUST," well good luck with that one!

Stephen Nagler

 

[Grace]

Your GP should at least have the knowledge of how to ween off benzos, and if they dont like others said, change doctors cause thats a common thing that most doctors
Should be able to advise you on how to do. Tinnitus wise is a hit or miss thing.. Its complicated as hell and in ways i dont blame some docs for not understanding it cause its so complex.. Its easy to get mad and say there not doing there job but they only know so much.. And everyones body reacts differently. But coming off benzos with T or no T is something that your own doc should be able to help you with.. Just dont ever listen to one that says go cold turkey.

 

[Alex Senkowski]

Your GP should at least have the knowledge of how to ween off benzos, and if they dont like others said, change doctors cause thats a common thing that most doctors
Should be able to advise you on how to do. Tinnitus wise is a hit or miss thing.. Its complicated as hell and in ways i dont blame some docs for not understanding it cause its so complex.. Its easy to get mad and say there not doing there job but they only know so much.. And everyones body reacts differently. But coming off benzos with T or no T is something that your own doc should be able to help you with.. Just dont ever listen to one that says go cold turkey.

So...Is taking half a 0.5mg tablet each day still a good stage to be at in my tapering?

 

[Grace]

So...Is taking half a 0.5mg tablet each day still a good stage to be at in my tapering?

Again im no doctor and everyones body reacts different. In my case when i was on 0.5 daily for 6 monthes i cut that in half for two weeks.. And then cut it in quarters until my perscription ran and and had no withdraw effects at all. But that was MY case.. So im not gonna tell you what to do. Just call your GP or whoever perscribed you them
And ask for a withdraw routine no big deal.. They know best!!

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Let me say something by way of anecdote about the addictive properties of Xanax and other benzodiazepines (like clonazapam). You can read all sorts of horror stories about how difficult it can be to wean yourself from these drugs, and far be it from me to argue with the pharmacology or with somebody else's experience. Benzodiazepines can indeed by quite addicting. But in my case, after TRT it took me less than three weeks to be completely off Xanax and also the Prozac that I was taking at the time. And I was on a LOT of Xanax each and every day, four times a day. I do not recall the exact dose, but I gave a pill to my pet elephant one afternoon - and he slept for a week. OK, OK. Maybe that's a slight exaggeration, but you get the idea. Anyway, what my doctor told me, what I observed myself in my own case, and what I have witnessed in many of my own patients is that one of the reasons folks often have so much trouble getting off benzodiazepines is that the underlying problem that led them to go on the drugs in the first place has not been resolved. For instance, you have severe tinnitus-induced anxiety and start taking Xanax in order to help with your anxiety. Then at some point you decide to gradually taper the Xanax "because you don't want to be addicted to it" - and you have an incredibly difficult time doing so. Please consider that in large part this phenomenon may due to the fact that the Xanax served to mask your tinnitus-related anxiety, but did not truly address it; once off the Xanax you will still be as anxious as you were before starting it in the first place. (And this principle can hold true for folks who take Xanax for any reason!) In my case, after TRT I had no tinnitus-related anxiety. I still had tinnitus, of course, but the TRT had effectively addressed my anxiety that, after all, was part of my reaction to my tinnitus. That's what TRT is supposed to do: address tinnitus-related distress. The result? For me, getting off Xanax after TRT was a snap!

Stephen Nagler