Clonazepam (Klonopin, Rivotril)

That was exactly my case also, aside
From the TRT cause i took klonopin for panic attacks pre T.. But while i was on them i got counselling how do to deal with the anxiety so im guessing that was one of the reasons it was easy for me to ween off them also, cause i got my anxiety in check. THEN i got T and am now taking them as needed, one to two .5 mg a week if that. But basically it does come down to your anxiety.. If your no better anxiety wise before getting on them then again talk to your doctor cause he/she may not want you off them quite yet.. And alex have you gave TRT a thought at all? Counselling or something? Cause benzos wont cure your anxiety only suppress it.. Doc nagler is right when he says you have to treat the underlying cause which is CAUSING your anxiety! Just good advice thats all :)
 
The acid test, in my opinion, is whether or not the doctor is willing to listen to you and do some research on your behalf in order to "get it right."
Stephen Nagler

There just are not many doctors that I have run into (and I have seen over 60 in the past 3.5 years) who listen and do research on a patient's behalf. If they don't know the answer to something within 30 seconds, they are done thinking. And god forbid you try to fully explain what is going on. If it takes more than 3 minutes explain something, you can forget it. Their hearing just shuts off at 1 minute. True example: Went to a doctor and explained what was going on. He appeared to be listening. When I was done he just said, "Okay, come back to see me in 6 months." I said, "Why would I come back in 6 months, the problem I'm having is now". He replied, "Well if x, y, and z were going on, then ..." X, y, and z were exactly what I had just told him - he used almost the same exact words as I did in his reply. When I politely pointed that out to him, he just got mad .

That is why so many people turn to non-doctor's and the web for advice. They don't get the info they want and need from doctors. Worse, often times the info they get from their doctors is just plain wrong. I've been dealing with that for a long time now. The first few times I ran into doctors like that, I thought it was fluke, but it has proven to be the rule rather than the exception.

You also used the words "who has personally evaluated you and who knows you well" in another post. Again, very few of the doctors I have seen do much in the realm of evaluation, and despite using one doctor for over 20 years, there is not one that I would say has ever known me in the way I think they should know me. The way medicine is practiced today, doctors either do not want to take the time or do not have the time to get to know their patients, and they certainly don't want to spend letting you get to know them. Most of them are just plain not interested in you. They just want to get you out of their office as fast as they can once they have your money and the insurance company's money in their hands. I've have had more than one doctor simply walk out of the examination room because in their minds the appointment was over, yet they had not answered a single question, or provided one spec of advice.

In my life I have sent 5 letters to doctors to ask follow-up questions that I could not get answered in my appointment. In all the letters I offer to make another appoinment so we can discuss the questions. In four of those cases the doctor I sent the letter never responded. When I followed up later with a phone call or made another appointment, the doctors in all 4 cases claimed to have lost the letter (that is four different doctors - 4 out of 5 doctors are so screwed up that they can't even keep from losing an important letter from a patient????). Only one time have I sent a letter to a doctor and gotten a response.

Medicine as practiced by the vast majority of doctors is just plain bad. I've fired lots of physicians. It always takes at least 3 weeks to find and get an appointment with a new one. When you get 3, 4, or 5 doctors in a row like that you're in limbo for 3 or 4 months. I've been through that cycle several times now.

It is no wonder that patients turn to the internet and strangers. This is an extremely sore point with me. Very, very few doctors are worth the money they get paid - and I have paid a lot. The Mayo Clinic collected over $10000 from my visit there. I got close to nothing out of it. It was almost impossible to get a into a real substantial conversation with any of the 8 or 9 doctors I saw there. And their evaluation of me was so superficial it was simply a waste of money.

Finding a good doctor is a difficult and time consuming task. When I was young, I thought about going to med school. All I can say is I'm glad I did not because if I turned out like the vast majority of doctors I've seen I simply would not be able to live with myself. And even if I had turned out to be a good doctor, I would feel embarrassed by the number of bad colleagues I'd have to associate with.

mick
 
Finding a good doctor is a difficult and time consuming task.

Right. Indeed, just about everything truly worth doing is a difficult and time consuming task.

But the alternative - keeping a lousy doctor and turning to faceless lay "authorities" on the Internet for advice about serious healthcare concerns - is just plain stooooooopid.

In my opinion, anyway.

Stephen Nagler
 
Right. Indeed, just about everything truly worth doing is a difficult and time consuming task.

But the alternative - keeping a lousy doctor and turning to faceless lay "authorities" on the Internet for advice about serious healthcare concerns - is just plain stooooooopid.

In my opinion, anyway.

Stephen Nagler

Unfortunately I find fault with the fact that it's a difficult and time consuming task. If I take my car to an auto shop, I want it fixed the first time, and done right. Most of us in our lives don't have the time to spend months finding a doctor who will listen to us. While I agree that medical advice should be given by a professional, I don't think it hurts if the patients themselves are educated as well. I educate myself about all sorts of things if I find my knowledge is lacking in them.
 
Unfortunately I find fault with the fact that [finding quality healthcare is] a difficult and time consuming task.

So do I.

But that is the reality.

If I take my car to an auto shop, I want it fixed the first time, and done right

Because the guy who owns the repair shop knows full well that if you are not satisfied with the service he provides, you'll go to his competitor.

And by exactly the same reasoning, if we stopped putting up with substandard healthcare, there would be less and less substandard healthcare. You make my argument for me!

Stephen Nagler
 
Right. Indeed, just about everything truly worth doing is a difficult and time consuming task.

But the alternative - keeping a lousy doctor and turning to faceless lay "authorities" on the Internet for advice about serious healthcare concerns - is just plain stooooooopid.

In my opinion, anyway.

Stephen Nagler

I think that you make a few very big assumptions with that statement: 1) That people who ask questions on web sites blindly follow the advice they get (in other words that they ARE etupid), and 2) that the people who give their solicited advice are stupid (in other words that their advice is bad, or conversely, that the advice of the "professionals" is always good or better than of layman). How is asking a question on the internet any different than you asking your neighbor for advice on yard care, for instance? Or asking your wife if your blue or red tie looks better with suit x? You ask the question, weigh the answer against your own thoughts on the matter, the source of the advice, the biases of the advisor, and a whole bunch of other things, right? Do you blindly follow the advice of your own doctor? If you do, you are being stupid?

If your point is that blindly assuming that everything you read is gospel is a stupid thing to do, then I agree with you wholeheartedly That applies to blindly following anyone's advice about anything, including doctors, lawyers, engineered, psychologists, car mechanics, priests, ....

If your point, however, is that asking questions on a website in and of itself is a stupid thing to do, then I wholeheartedly disagree.

When I am faced with things that I don't have a lot of experience with, I ask the opinions of many people, including pros and lay people. I find that people who have had real experience, and who have lived through the mistakes (of their own making or the making of a pro) have the greatest insight. I have a rule when my safety or that of anyone else is involved to ask at least 3 people and I sure as heck make sure they are people I respect.

The same thought and decision making criteria applies in deciding to follow advice from anyone. You have to think for yourself, and I think that is what the majority of people do who turn to the internet.
 
I think that you make a few very big assumptions with that statement: 1. That people who ask questions on web sites blindly follow the advice they get (in other words that they ARE etupid), and that the people who offer their solicited advice are stupid (in other words at their advice is bad, or conversely, that the advice of the "professionals" is always good or better than of layman).

Not so.

But I have been involved in the on-line tinnitus community for nearly twenty years now, and I'm here to tell you that plenty of very bright people do just that - blindly follow the advice they find on boards such as this one. Why? It's Stringplayer's Second Law:

"The degree to which a person will apply common sense and logic in search of relief from a malady is inversely proportional to the square of that person's misery and desperation."

Consider the fact that in the grand scheme of things there is not a whole lot of really great information out there on tinnitus from authoritative sources (hell, even the authoritative tinnitus sources often can't agree with each other about the most basic of concepts), and given the sense of misery and desperation all-too-often experienced by tinnitus sufferers, tinnitus boards are a set-up for potential unmitigated disaster.

Mick, you are free to disagree with me to your heart's content - but do not for one moment assume that I believe folks who follow the advice on tinnitus boards are stupid. Unless you're purposely trying to look pretty stupid yourself, that is! Desperation and misery can lead even the brightest of folks to do things that are not necessarily in their best interest, blindly following advice on tinnitus boards based being a classic example.

Stephen Nagler
 
all
So do I.

... if we stopped putting up with substandard healthcare, there would be less and less substandard healthcare.

Stephen Nagler

I absolutely agree with that. To know that you're receiving substandard healthcare, however, you have to educate yourself, and ask a lot of questions (of yourself, of doctors, of friends, neighbors ... and that includes internet neighbors).

Unfortunately, there is a bias in the world towards doctor's and many healthcare providers getting paid regardless of the quality of care provided. Part of that is because patients are not educated enough to know that they are getting bad care, and part of it is the myth that all doctors are smart and capable because of the rigors they went through to get their degrees. The fact is, like all professions, half of all doctors finished in the bottom half of their class.

Most people don't make the effort to make sure the doctor they are unhappy with knows they are unhappy because most of the money comes from insurance so it is no sweat off the patient's back financially speaking. Another reason is because one does not want to tick off the guy who might have the answer to their problem if you could get that guy to get off his tail. (It's kind of like not ticking off your co-workers because you never know which one will be your next boss). Beyond expressing dissatisfaction, one has little recourse except to bring a lawsuit, and doing that jeopardizes your future ability to get good care. If you get a rep for lawsuits, prospective doctors won't take you as a patient. Going to another doctor causes little hardship for the doctor you leave. 90% of the time they won't even notice you stopped using them unless you tell them so, and even if they do, they don't really care. Demand way outstrips supply, so doctors don't see a change in income.

There also seems to be a hesitancy among healthcare providers to "out" the bad guys. I don't know why that is.

Additonally, there are many laws that protect doctor's business. Only doctor's can provide certain services (in some cases this makes sense; in others it does not). Only the ordering doctor can give a patient test results. This gives them ample opportunity to cover their tracks if they screw up. When the doctor controls all the information it makes it very difficult for a patient to oversee their doctor - and that is precisely what patients should do - oversee the guy working for them. Unfortunately, few doctors see themselves as working for the patient. Hospitals are not required to post performance data (at least in my state). There are other such barriers that protect doctors interests at the expense of patients. I understand how these laws came to be and the key assumption in creating them is "the doctor knows best". That simply is not always the case. Believing that and passing such laws diminishes the ability of the person who wants to take charge of his own healthcare. It makes them reliant on the "system" rather than fostering control of it.

All of these things give healthcare providers too much power - financial power, psychological power, legal power.... And on top of all that, insurance rules also get in the way. Lastly, when you are sick, you're often not able to shop around for the right doctor - you have to go with what you got. From that perspective, it is my opinion that doctors should be held to a higher level of integrity and be saddled with a degree of fiduciary responsibility that goes beyond what is expected in most other professions.

For these and other reasons, as a rule, healthcare consumers have been loath to take back control of the "system". I think the biggest single reason for the reluctance is because most healthcare consumers are intimidated by their doctors, and the whole system. That's why I encourage people to use the power of the internet to educate themselves. Being your own advocate is the best way to protect yourself. Patient education is the biggest thing that will help consumers regain control of the system, and that control is what will raise the standard of care. Asking questions on web sites is one form of educating yourself; one way to not feel so intimidated; one way to get ideas and gain the confidence to fend for yourself while sitting in the intimidating environs of an examination room - you in your underwear seeking help because you are sick vs. the doctor and institutions that have more (undue) power than you from a lot of perspectives.

Sorry for the long post, but if you haven't picked up on it yet, this is something I am passionate about.
 
@mick -

You are referring to the benefits of information gathering from a variety of sources and rational consideration of that information keeping the nature of those sources in mind.

I am referring to the practice of blindly following medical advice offered by people with virtually no medical background - well-intended though it may be.

Stephen Nagler
 
Hey all. Feeling rather rough these last few days. I'm nearing the end of my Clonazepam supply and am taking half a 0.5mg tablet every two days and a 1/4 of a tablet in between. I'm really starting to feel the withdrawal effects. I'm groggy all the time and my T is almost constant and shrill. Still sleeping well, surprisingly. I've been asking myself recently if there's any point in tapering off Clonazepam at all. What do you guys think?
 
Hey all. Feeling rather rough these last few days. I'm nearing the end of my Clonazepam supply and am taking half a 0.5mg tablet every two days and a 1/4 of a tablet in between. I'm really starting to feel the withdrawal effects. I'm groggy all the time and my T is almost constant and shrill. Still sleeping well, surprisingly. I've been asking myself recently if there's any point in tapering off Clonazepam at all. What do you guys think?
If your still feeling just as anxious as before you got on it, then no stay on it. Ask your doc!
 
The thing with benzos are there not hurting us being on them.. Its just the withdraws that people are concerned about after being on them so LONG. Since it is only a temporarily "cure" then the anxiety needs to be solved elsewhere ( in your case and everyone with T) TRT, counseling etc. and after that getting off it wont be as difficult. You seem your not quite there yet so think about that.
 
I have T for 24 years. I have had several relapses for reasons unknown. When I got tinnitus, I joined ATA and read up on what helps with Tinnitus. Tried Bio-feedback, cognitive theory, etc .Reluctantly I went on medications. Prozac 40mg , Xanax .25 morning, .25 around 5PM, ambien 10mg, xanax 1mg to sleep. Once I habituate it was maintenance of .25 morning and .25 5PM. Sleep without aids. I've been doing this for 24 years with no side effects.
Believe me I wish there is another way for me but this worked twice. After 10 years of habituation I am currently in a relapse. Why? Who knows. I'm back on my regiment I'll keep you informed.
 
I have T for 24 years. I have had several relapses for reasons unknown. When I got tinnitus, I joined ATA and read up on what helps with Tinnitus. Tried Bio-feedback, cognitive theory, etc .Reluctantly I went on medications. Prozac 40mg , Xanax .25 morning, .25 around 5PM, ambien 10mg, xanax 1mg to sleep. Once I habituate it was maintenance of .25 morning and .25 5PM. Sleep without aids. I've been doing this for 24 years with no side effects.
Believe me I wish there is another way for me but this worked twice. After 10 years of habituation I am currently in a relapse. Why? Who knows. I'm back on my regiment I'll keep you informed.
If it works for you, then keep doin what your doing! :)
 
I have been managing my T much better over the last couple of months. A couple of nights ago, my T was REALYY bad and yet I managed to sleep quite well despite it. The problem is paradoxical in that my tapering off Clonazepam causes nasty withdrawal symptoms that make me want to go back on a higher dose. The benzo withdrawal group I joined on Facebook recommends I stay on my current dosage of half a 0.5mg tablet per day for a few weeks more.
 
Has anyone had any success or better say relief by using rivotril?
Thanks!
Just to be clear, Rivotril is the same as Klonopin, or generically Clonazepam. I take 1mg of this drug a couple of times a week before bed. It almost always gives me significant relief from my tinnitus the following day. I don't know why, but I imagine it has to do with relaxation of my muscles, easing of my stress, and bringing about a sufficiently deep sleep.

-Golly
 
Yes, I have heard about the "next day" thing.
As for horror stories , make sure to taper off this stuff you are already using it , if not..do not start.
A lot of people get T from benzos and what is not talked about as much is that it can ruin your hearing.
At least in my case that is what happened.
My two cents.
 
My Tinnitus started after I quit Rivotril/Clonazepam cold turkey after realizing I had been wrongly diagnozed with epilepsy. Two days after stopping the meds my hearing dropped severly , Im an audio engineer and I noticed immediately. Two weeks after that my T started.

Of course I have been told that it was caused by noise exposure by doctors as soon as I mention that Im an audio engineer,but I have always taken very good care of my ears and never mixed at live venues , in fact my clients used to complain about my low levels when mixing.

I'm absolutely confident that my tinnitus was caused by these medications and in fact when talking to others that have discontinued benzos it seems to be a common theme to get tinnitus.
It seems logical to me that since doctors prescribe Clonazepam to alleviate tinnitus it is having an effect on the ears , so it isnt all that farfetched that they might be causing damage as well .
I would not advise anyone to use those drugs as they *in my opinion* will kill your ears and they are highly addictive as well. Stay away from benzos at all costs ....my advice.
From my understanding the tinnitus from Benzo withdrawal is actually temporary and reversible.
 
I was recently prescribed Clonazepam 0.5mg to help me sleep, but it actually had the opposite effect. My sleep became extremely restless, and I felt very tired in the morning. Also, I started to feel depressed. I had a similar reaction to Parexotine (ssri) which gave me panic attacks and suicidal thoughts. I think im not cut out for some psych drugs :)

Otoh, im currently on 0.25mg - 0.50mg of xanax a day, and that seems to be working ok with 15mg of Mirtazapine at night for sleeping. Got appt with psychologist and audiological centre to address my tinnitus anxiety, and as soon as I feel ive got that under control, im dropping the xanax like a hot potato.
 
From my understanding the tinnitus from Benzo withdrawal is actually temporary and reversible.
Well in my case , if temporary means 2 years then possibly. Again, I am super confident when I say this will ruin your hearing , no doubt in my mind. I have spent 17 years flexing my ears as an audio engineer , and I could hear my top end diminish in a couple of days. Keep in mind that I earn a living from my hearing.
 
I took clonezopam for 1 month and it did not change my tinnitus. I took 0.5 mg before bedtime. It made me sleep like a baby. I had no issues to stop the medication. My ent told me that some people have a reduction or it dissapeared after taking this medication so it was worth a try.
 
Well in my case , if temporary means 2 years then possibly. Again, I am super confident when I say this will ruin your hearing , no doubt in my mind. I have spent 17 years flexing my ears as an audio engineer , and I could hear my top end diminish in a couple of days. Keep in mind that I earn a living from my hearing.
Are you saying that benzos destroys ones hearing? Anything scientific to support that?
 
It's been some time since this thread has been active, I thought I might go on-topic for a while and share some thoughts.

The first day I took a benzo (3mg bromazepam) my tinnitus completely disappeared. I mean gone, like not even 1% of what it used to be. It was not the complete loss of my anxiety playing tricks on me. I definitely couldn't hear it. For one day, silence. The next day it was pretty much back.

I kept taking 3mg daily, sometimes it made me less anxious, sometimes it did nothing.
I stopped taking it after (hmmm) maybe 14-16 days of use. That was back in June.

My tinnitus has gotten a tiny bit more silent since then. I had some very good days but lately I have been a bit groggy in the morning and some stuff happening at work don't seem to help.

Therefore, since I'm pretty much benzo-clean for two months, I took 6mg this morning, as a little experiment. Silence again. Now I can feel it coming back ever so slightly and it makes me wonder.

Are there any other members on here that have a similar response to their benzos?
Does anyone else have any experience with Pregabalin (Lyrica)? Should I give it a go?
My tinnitus doesn't bother me that much but putting it even more in the background would be nice.
 
It's been some time since this thread has been active, I thought I might go on-topic for a while and share some thoughts.

The first day I took a benzo (3mg bromazepam) my tinnitus completely disappeared. I mean gone, like not even 1% of what it used to be. It was not the complete loss of my anxiety playing tricks on me. I definitely couldn't hear it. For one day, silence. The next day it was pretty much back.

I kept taking 3mg daily, sometimes it made me less anxious, sometimes it did nothing.
I stopped taking it after (hmmm) maybe 14-16 days of use. That was back in June.

My tinnitus has gotten a tiny bit more silent since then. I had some very good days but lately I have been a bit groggy in the morning and some stuff happening at work don't seem to help.

Therefore, since I'm pretty much benzo-clean for two months, I took 6mg this morning, as a little experiment. Silence again. Now I can feel it coming back ever so slightly and it makes me wonder.

Are there any other members on here that have a similar response to their benzos?
Does anyone else have any experience with Pregabalin (Lyrica)? Should I give it a go?
My tinnitus doesn't bother me that much but putting it even more in the background would be nice.
Hi @undecided:

Often after taking 1mg of Klonopin, I awake tinnitus-free. I sometimes get a similar effect with 100mg of Gabapentin (the pre-cursor to Pregabalin). I have never tried Pregabalin, but I know of one individual (on the TSMB site) that claims her tinnitus is significantly reduced by this drug.

-Golly
 

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