Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19) and Tinnitus

[Ed209]

I don't disagree that we're in crazy uncertain times where it's hard to know what to follow, but in this specific case I am very happy to dismiss it out of hand because every piece of Koch-backed "science" in the last 40 years has led to regressive policies, environmental destruction and worker suffering.

You clearly know more about the Koch brothers than I do, so I won't argue on this point, but what I will say is that this brings our top universities into disrepute. These institutions are supposed to be at the forefront of science and knowledge, but more importantly, they have to show a level of integrity that others aspire towards. This surely tarnishes the reputation of the many esteemed professors and doctors who are involved? How can we know who to trust if people are so easily bought? If it works one way then life has taught me that it most certainly works the other as well. This is fast becoming a political minefield and disaster.

Who has the ultimate right to judge what should be censored and what shouldn't? Surely, we either have free speech or we don't? I can understand censoring certain content that's clearly just hate-speech or whatnot, but I feel it's wrong in this instance. I don't see why Google and other big tech companies should have the ultimate right to control what we have access to, even though we know the dissemination of information is highly manipulated nowadays. It could be the dumbest document of all time, but rather than pretend it doesn't exist, it should be openly rebutted and discussed in the public domain, in my opinion.

You mentioned that Alphabet was part of AIER's group above, so it seems rather odd for them to censor their own document.

The decision making in the UK lately is all over the place and I feel we're heading towards a potential disaster with no ones hand firmly on the wheel to guide us.

That's just my read from the ground, but, look at what tech (for instance) is doing -- huge verticals are doing massively well during COVID and profiting tremendously. Usually, when this happens it's an opportunity to grow, expand, etc -- but what we're seeing is that people are just pocketing money and maintaining larger than usual cash reserves. That's a pretty obvious set of tea leaves, no?

I agree about the markets. The CEO of MicroStrategy put $425m of their cash reserve into Bitcoin stating that their money was analogous to a pile of melting ice cubes. I can see more and more billionaires going into Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies to hedge against inflation which is sure to go above 10%, that's if it isn't that already.

I think we agree that limiting the number of lost lives is the best way forward and that's really all that matters. It's knowing how to achieve this without making the collateral damage more of a problem than the virus. As you once stated, governments will start to put a price on peoples heads.

 

[linearb]

Who has the ultimate right to judge what should be censored and what shouldn't? Surely, we either have free speech or we don't? I can understand censoring certain content that's clearly just hate-speech or whatnot, but I feel it's wrong in this instance. I don't see why Google and other big tech companies should have the ultimate right to control what we have access to

The American concept of "free speech" as enshrined in law doesn't apply here, at all. Our first amendment guarantees that the government is not supposed to be able to censor or suppress information, no matter how incorrect, odious, or just plain challenging to the power structure it is.

This has zero impact on the ability of Facebook, Twitter, etc to 100% control content on their platforms -- just as I am allowed to put up a website and say "this website is for cat pictures ONLY, and dog pictures will be deleted". This is, more or less, all Facebook and Twitter are doing -- and they are only doing it because the amount of dangerous disinfo on those platforms has reached levels where they are (very rightly) concerned that their going to get regulated hard if they don't clamp down.

There's an argument that entities like Twitter and Facebook are now so big and prevelent that it's incorrect for them to exist as private corporations, and that they should be socialized. If they were collective government/public property, they WOULD be subject to normal first amendement protections, but also subject to the protections from bias that naturally come from being "everyone's property". This is a very complex argument, there are many differing opinions in industry, from "it's fine leave it alone" to "break these companies up into smaller bits because they clearly have monopoly status" to "socialize all of these platforms 100%". I do think that some combination of the latter 2 is likely to happen over the next decade or so.

You mentioned that Alphabet was part of AIER's group above, so it seems rather odd for them to censor their own document.

AEIR holds stock and espouses positions designed to maximize quarterly earnings, like all these groups. They have no direct control over Alphabet or Chevron, and Alphabet and Chevron are not in any way beholden to acknowledge the existence of these groups. In fact, it's great optics for Alphabet to feign offense at the actions of groups like AEIR and PACs, even if these groups are actually helping their bottom line, because feigned offense can play well in liberal media to clueless people which is most of our electorate. Most people who don't either work in tech or study the effect of the industry are pretty unaware the degree to which social media is controlling the cultural narratives we're having.

I think we agree that limiting the number of lost lives is the best way forward and that's really all that matters. It's knowing how to achieve this without making the collateral damage more of a problem than the virus. As you once stated, governments will start to put a price on peoples heads.

Yes, and, on some level I'd almost say "putting prices on lives" is a function of government and society. That is, if we had one sick individual that we could save, but at the expense of decreasing the quality of life of everyone else in the country by 50%, almost no one would suggest that's a reasonable idea. But, we don't know the real numbers, and it's all shades of gray. So, if you don't know the actual risk profile of a disease, and we also don't know the true long term cost, in terms of "brain fog" and other things actually being signs of brain damage or whatever. So, we're working with more unknowns than is typical on a politicized issue. I think this divides people into the "take precautions even if they might be excessive, and endure some economic pain to avoid spiraling mortality" vs "fuck it, open it all and see who dies" camps. I do not find the second argument compelling at this point, and I also think that statement is a very accurate, if hyper cynical, distillation of the actual policy that Barrington is suggesting.

And, as I said before -- there's so much mistrust on this issue, many many people in my area simply are not going to stop distancing or wearing masks until there's a vaccine people trust. So, that sorta kills the "herd immunity" idea dead in its tracks, to reach that threshold you need everyone else to play along, and LOL if I am about to go get some weird disease so that Alphabet and Chevron have a better fiscal quarter

So, I trust little of what I read these days and even less of what I hear, I use n95 filters and keep 4-5 weeks worth of food and generator gasoline on hand, and am just trying to wait as patiently as possible for the situation on the ground to continue to change.

It's also worth remembering that journalism has mostly always been sensationalist trash and disinfo is nothing new, the new thing is how easy it is to just go global in the blink of an eye with some totally concocted bullshit.

 

[Ed209]

This has zero impact on the ability of Facebook, Twitter, etc to 100% control content on their platforms -- just as I am allowed to put up a website and say "this website is for cat pictures ONLY, and dog pictures will be deleted". This is, more or less, all Facebook and Twitter are doing -- and they are only doing it because the amount of dangerous disinfo on those platforms has reached levels where they are (very rightly) concerned that their going to get regulated hard if they don't clamp down.

This just proves my point, though, and is exactly what I'm trying to say. The vast majority of the world rely on Google and god forbid Facebook and Twitter, etc, for their information. Many don't realise how tailored this experience is becoming. A far-right fanatic nut job, for example, would be exposed to far more hate-relevant content, which only acts to reaffirm their beliefs. There is no neutrality online in any capacity. We are all equally being manipulated and tracked.

AEIR holds stock and espouses positions designed to maximize quarterly earnings, like all these groups. They have no direct control over Alphabet or Chevron, and Alphabet and Chevron are not in any way beholden to acknowledge the existence of these groups.

This is true of many holding companies and groups who own stock. At what point do we dismiss the next thing any of these institutions have to say? When it fits our own biases and/or beliefs? As I said, it could be complete horseshit what they are espousing, I have no strong opinion either way, but there is no common consensus on it. The experts are arguing amongst themselves about what to do on a daily basis over here. If any of these people make a scientific breakthrough in the future then we might as well just throw it in the bin and/or censor that as well.

Yes, and, on some level I'd almost say "putting prices on lives" is a function of government and society. That is, if we had one sick individual that we could save, but at the expense of decreasing the quality of life of everyone else in the country by 50%, almost no one would suggest that's a reasonable idea. But, we don't know the real numbers, and it's all shades of gray.

I agree. It's an incredibly complex dilemma.

It's also worth remembering that journalism has mostly always been sensationalist trash and disinfo is nothing new, the new thing is how easy it is to just go global in the blink of an eye with some totally concocted bullshit.

I agree again. Especially our tabloid rags.

In conclusion, I can totally understand where you're coming from. You believe their science is wrong, and it probably is. I'm looking at this from a different perspective I suppose.

 

[linearb]

This just proves my point, though, and is exactly what I'm trying to say. The vast majority of the world rely on Google and god forbid Facebook and Twitter, etc, for their information. Many don't realise how tailored this experience is becoming. A far-right fanatic nut job, for example, would be exposed to far more hate-relevant content,

This isn't a new problem, though? Yellow journalism is as old as journalism, and bad printed material has been used to spread conspiracy theories for more than 100 years (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Rowbotham -- I have his book, it's quite hilarious).

The vast majority of the world has, indeed, become incapable of understanding the difference between primary sources and secondary sources, let alone between reliable primary sources and sketchy ones. This isn't exactly the "fault" of FB or Alphabet; they are just doing what all corps do: attempting to maximize next quarter's profits without breaking any laws they're likely to get caught breaking.

At what point do we dismiss the next thing any of these institutions have to say? When it fits our own biases and/or beliefs?

I assume all sources are biased, dismiss stuff like AETR out of hand, and am highly skeptical of peer-reviewed whitepapers until they have been replicated several times by different groups. I believe this is the only way to navigate the landscape of disinformation we're in, but it's very challenging even if you have a lot of time and curiosity. If you're working two full time jobs to keep the lights on, as many do? Good luck.

In conclusion, I can totally understand where you're coming from. You believe their science is wrong, and it probably is. I'm looking at this from a different perspective I suppose.

Yes, I am biased against this specific org because of the tremendous volume of disinfo they have put out in the past, their Koch ties, the portfolio they hold, the fact that many signatures were faked and redacted, the fact that various theoretically nonpartisan fact-checking orgs have said this document doesn't pass the sniff test, etc.

It's also very much in my interest to believe that, because "herd immunity" would require me to go expose myself to the virus, something I am personally unwilling to do, and will remain unwilling to do even if it leads us to become increasingly isolated. (I am not too worried about that; as of now like 95% of my friends and family are on exactly the same page).

 

[Ed209]

This isn't a new problem, though? Yellow journalism is as old as journalism, and bad printed material has been used to spread conspiracy theories for more than 100 years (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Rowbotham -- I have his book, it's quite hilarious).

The vast majority of the world has, indeed, become incapable of understanding the difference between primary sources and secondary sources, let alone between reliable primary sources and sketchy ones. This isn't exactly the "fault" of FB or Alphabet; they are just doing what all corps do: attempting to maximize next quarter's profits without breaking any laws they're likely to get caught breaking.

I assume all sources are biased, dismiss stuff like AETR out of hand, and am highly skeptical of peer-reviewed whitepapers until they have been replicated several times by different groups. I believe this is the only way to navigate the landscape of disinformation we're in, but it's very challenging even if you have a lot of time and curiosity. If you're working two full time jobs to keep the lights on, as many do? Good luck.

Yes, I am biased against this specific org because of the tremendous volume of disinfo they have put out in the past, their Koch ties, the portfolio they hold, the fact that many signatures were faked and redacted, the fact that various theoretically nonpartisan fact-checking orgs have said this document doesn't pass the sniff test, etc.

It's also very much in my interest to believe that, because "herd immunity" would require me to go expose myself to the virus, something I am personally unwilling to do, and will remain unwilling to do even if it leads us to become increasingly isolated. (I am not too worried about that; as of now like 95% of my friends and family are on exactly the same page).

I feel we've gone full circle but it's been good discussing this stuff with you. I feel myself losing brain cells at times talking about COVID-19.

My issue, that's not being addressed, is at what point do we stop locking down? This is the crux of my current position. If we lock people away indefinitely then the economy may never recover and we could find ourselves in unchartered waters. There is already the ongoing discussion of negative interest rates being implemented for the first time in our history. Without a vaccine, at some point we will all catch it because we have to leave our homes to eat and earn money. It's a catch 22. If we don't work then many people will die through missed medical appointments and suicides. Businesses will begin to fall across entire industries and that's already happening now, and this is how our NHS is funded in the first place through taxation. Where will the deficit come from? It is also beginning to affect my daughter. She has gone from being a great footballer and outgoing child to shy and unsure. She had forgotten who my parents were because of the lack of technology, and she had forgotten who here cousins were - who she saw every week. It was really sad.

We will almost certainly end up locking down again, based on what I'm seeing. The problem is what do we do when we come out of this second lockdown and cases start to rise again?

 

[linearb]

and also @Ed209 -- if there's passion coming out in my posts, it's anger at decades of action by various PACs, and the continual idiocy surrounding COVID that I deal with from specific people, offline and on (though online nonsense is easier to ignore, ofc). I do think there's room for all kinds of disagreement because there's still a lot of things we don't understand about the virus and what's happening with the economy, but at some point, objective reality is a thing.

Karl Rove's disdain for it was.... worrying

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community

[Karl Rove] said that guys like me were 'in what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.' [...] 'That's not the way the world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do'.[2]

I subbed in Rove's name because this quote 100% came from him even if Wiki refuses to spell that out specifically. From the context of the journalist who reported this interaction originally, and their interactions with the WH at the time, it was obvious this was a Rove statement, it also sounds like him.

It's an impressive sounding quote but I think he's full of shit and history will remember all these people as the half-ass money and power hungry charlatans they were, as we typically remember the aristocracies of other fallen empires.

 

[Ed209]

and also @Ed209 -- if there's passion coming out in my posts, it's anger at decades of action by various PACs, and the continual idiocy surrounding COVID that I deal with from specific people, offline and on (though online nonsense is easier to ignore, ofc). I do think there's room for all kinds of disagreement because there's still a lot of things we don't understand about the virus and what's happening with the economy, but at some point, objective reality is a thing.

Nah, I totally get it man. You need passion in your posts that's what makes them real and authentic. Nobody likes a drone who cannot think for themselves.

There isn't really much we can do that leads to an ideal scenario and I think that's the problem. I too get frustrated at some of the idiots I encounter both online and in real life.

 

[all to gain]

So, Liverpool is given the highest tier of restrictions and this is the reaction by some of the residents there:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.s...partying-crowds-have-shamed-the-city-12103771

Stupidity at its finest. Just watch the video of the idiots.

View attachment 41073

As you can see, people are clearly following the rules for tier 3 in Liverpool . This is a city that has the third-highest hospital admission rate in Europe. It's obvious that many simply do not care in the UK.

"This event had a particularly big impact on me because it made clear that this second lockdown that Liverpool will find itself in from tomorrow will have the potential to unleash a very dangerous wave of riots and uprising of people that don't believe in coronavirus restrictions.

"This video might just be the start."

A senior intensive care doctor also criticised the gathering, telling Sky News: "I am dreading we are heading towards a disaster.

"Then you see crowds behaving such a way. I am really disgusted and devastated."

This is what you get when people are young, uneducated and selfish, although I'm sure there are older ones there, too.

The UK has done a bad job and making things clear though. I watched some of Boris' press conferences with his scientists by his side, and they were just confusing. They seemed to forget their audience. Things needed, and need, to be made clear and simple.

All this tier business is nonsense; again, need to keep it simple.

 

[all to gain]

I no longer know what to do in regard to coronavirus.

Where I am people aren't strictly following social distancing rules or the wearing of masks (and even if they do, they don't follow the no touching the mask, not putting the mask over the nose etc), people are still shaking hands, the schools and play schools are now open as are sport schools for kids.

My wife has no problem with sending my oldest son to playschool, but I have grave doubts, and my daughter goes to school where one of her friends has just come down with pneumonia...!!

What the hell is a person to do? I feel like I have to become a lemming, even though I don't want to.

 

[linearb]

There isn't really much we can do that leads to an ideal scenario and I think that's the problem. I too get frustrated at some of the idiots I encounter both online and in real life.

yep, we are in a weird state with this thing where anything useful requires consensus and collective action, possibly in a way the world hasn't really dealt with since WWII, and we're also divided along increasingly barbed lines in a way that's never really been possible before because of social media.

It's a mess. I expect the rest of 2020 to be a mess, 2021 to be a slightly different kind of mess, and we'll see what 2022 looks like, should we live so long.

 

[Ed209]

The only solution I can think of is to get more serious with PPE measures until a vaccine arrives. The issue with this, though, is that people are generally stupid and don't follow the rules. If everyone wore N95 masks and washed their hands regularly then we could get a lot more done, and the economy would get a lifeline.

The biggest threat to society, as I see it, are the incredibly stupid conspiracy theorists who constantly preach that it's a hoax. They do my head in!

 

[linearb]

I feel we've gone full circle but it's been good discussing this stuff with you. I feel myself losing brain cells at times talking about COVID-19.

I 100% agree. I have a friend in quarantine in an area where this is being downplayed tremendously and he tells me he always feels better talking to people like me who are taking it seriously, because people who he is surrounded with make him feel like he's hallucinating.

My issue, that's not being addressed, is at what point do we stop locking down? This is the crux of my current position. If we lock people away indefinitely then the economy may never recover and we could find ourselves in unchartered waters.

My cynical take: if people would wear masks with > 80% adoption in public, actual lockdowns become unnecessary, but...

Forget about movies and large concerts until there's a vaccine. Movie theaters were already on their last legs and this may be the thing that kicks them in the teeth. At home now I have a 1080p projector, and a 12' screen.

Restaurants will fare better than theaters, but perhaps not amazingly. It is a tight margin industry. If you reduce your seating capacity 50% many places probably can't keep their whole kitchen running. Also, people who do think COVID-19 is serious are going to be very disinterested in this kind of spending.

I think "lockdown" vs "reopen" is a false dichotomy; nowhere is fully "locked down" in the way Wuhan did, and places that are fully "reopened" by policy still have less spending in service sectors.

It is also beginning to affect my daughter. She has gone from being a great footballer and outgoing child to shy and unsure

Yeah, it's weird to watch. Halloween for us this year is going to be "trick or treating"... on a loop through our own woods, with one other family who we trust and who our kid sees their kid. We'll all wear masks, the ladies will bring the kids through the woods, and the other dad and I are going to leapfrog each other from point to point, keeping ahead of the kids and changing costumes, handing out candy from 5-6 "stations". (I have a hunting blind that actually has a door you can knock on, plus spooky rocks a ghost can hide behind, etc). I feel lucky to be able to pull that off.

I was watching her play with her stuffed mouse the other day, and she was saying "Mouse is going to the mouse library! He is taking his mouse car. There's no other cars in the mouse library parking lot, because you have to make an appointment. You have to go in one mouse at a time, so mouse doesn't get sick!" :-/

We will almost certainly end up locking down again, based on what I'm seeing. The problem is what do we do when we come out of this second lockdown and cases start to rise again?

If there isn't a collective national will behind social behaviors that mitigate this (again, masks and distancing) then there may be a long and basically pointless series of open/close/open/close. If there were collective will around science-based behaviors, I believe many things could continue to operate.

I don't know what kind of phoenix rises from the ashes of this fire but I really think the economy is running on fumes and following the US election cycle we're headed for crashes of all kinds no matter who wins. I have read economic analysis that makes me think this isn't a crazy idea. I am considering pulling some small amount of money out of the market just to have a cash reserve, because home repairs and maintenance this summer got expensive and I can imagine a world where the market lines look like the Alps for months with no signs of things settling down.

The markets would probably already be crashing if people had anywhere better to put their money, but, they don't... precious metals are already way up, what are people going to do, buy Euros? That also seems unwise.

That will be immediately followed by the end of the federal eviction moratorium in the US. So that sounds like a lot of unemployed, sick, homeless people in the middle of winter in a country that has 330,000,000 people and 300,000,000 firearms. Sounds bad man.

At least the racist QAnon conspiracy nutters you have over there don't legally march around Piccadilly Circus with AR-15s in broad daylight with the full support of the local cops cheering them on.

This clip has been on my mind a lot lately, ha



(From Cronenberg's Naked Lunch, an amazing if completely disturbing movie)

 

[Ed209]

Forget about movies and large concerts until there's a vaccine. Movie theaters were already on their last legs and this may be the thing that kicks them in the teeth. At home now I have a 1080p projector, and a 12' screen.

Restaurants will fare better than theaters, but perhaps not amazingly. It is a tight margin industry. If you reduce your seating capacity 50% many places probably can't keep their whole kitchen running. Also, people who do think COVID-19 is serious are going to be very disinterested in this kind of spending.

I've been talking about all these things with a good friend of mine who is a local businessman/entrepreneur and he really knows his stuff. He was shorting Cineworld for a while early this year. It's also interesting to note that the cinemas fell out with Universal Studios after they put one of their films straight onto a streaming platform whilst cutting all the cinemas out completely. At first, they banned all Universal films from ever being shown at cinemas again, but then they realised that the power really lies with Universal and so instead of banning them they reduced their films' run time from 90 days down to 17. A bit pathetic really. Then Disney did the same thing by releasing a big film straight to Disney Plus. In the mean time, Netflix has set a precedent by buying a cinema which has led to speculation that they could buy a chain. Cineworld has closed all it's cinemas in this country until further notice, and with their mounting debt, I can't see how they'll survive.

If there isn't a collective national will behind social behaviors that mitigate this (again, masks and distancing) then there may be a long and basically pointless series of open/close/open/close. If there were collective will around science-based behaviors

With the way people behave here, it will definitely be open, close, open, close.

That will be immediately followed by the end of the federal eviction moratorium in the US. So that sounds like a lot of unemployed, sick, homeless people in the middle of winter in a country that has 330,000,000 people and 300,000,000 firearms. Sounds bad man.

That's a scary thought. I have images of Mad Max.

The markets would probably already be crashing if people had anywhere better to put their money, but, they don't... precious metals are already way up, what are people going to do, buy Euros? That also seems unwise.

The markets are gearing up for a crash. I can't see how it will be avoided. I've been moving my money into the crypto world recently.

 

[linearb]

It's also interesting to note that the cinemas fell out with Universal Studios after they put one of their films straight onto a streaming platform whilst cutting all the cinemas out completely. .

Yes, when the studios started making a stink about straight to streaming during COVID at first I thought they were being petulant, but I believe it's existential: now that some of those exclusivity contracts have been shattered, they may never come back in the same way, and that exclusivity is what's allowed theaters to hang on as long as they have.

When I was 15, we had a 23" color tv which seemed very reasonable at the time and cost several hundred dollars. Now, for effectively cheaper, people can get a 60" 4k. However -- there's a shell game here. Actual inflation-adjusted wages have been stagnant or trended down over that period, but Moore's law allowed tech to get cheaper and cheaper, so people could buy endlessly more gadgets and maintain some illusion of an "increasing quality of life", despite actually having less purchasing power when it comes to the things that really matter (food, clothes, medicine, housing).

 

[Bill Bauer]

I've been crazy-busy this week. Once I get some free time again, I hope to be able to read and respond to the messages in this thread.

Meanwhile, turns out that regular flu cases are down 98%.

A common sense explanation is that regular flu cases are being counted as COVID-19 cases.

 

[Ed209]

This is the point I was trying to make the other day in regards to free speech, and this comes from Richard Horton, the editor-in-chief of The Lancet.

What's going on in the UK? I've been noticing a lot more censorship than usual.

Why take the nanny state approach?

All opinions should be allowed to be heard. They shouldn't be controlled by anyone.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Netflix has set a precedent by buying a cinema which has led to speculation that they could buy a chain.

@linearb

Been buying into "green" sectors good for the environment issues with Biden going to win. Many bios - medical research - is starting to burn. Lots of money still being placed in high tech and sit at home social companies. Netflix is too expensive.

 

[Lane]

Haven't chimed in in a while; haven't changed my tune. I still think the whole pandemic situation could be greatly ameliorated if people would just do a little research on high dose Vit. C and other "alternative" therapies--which just happen to be very effective and nontoxic.

Medical Ignorance and the Mass Murder of Coronavirus Patients

(OMNS Oct 20, 2020) In treating the sick, Hippocrates, the Father of Medicine counselled, "First, do no harm." Unfortunately, this cherished principle has not been followed in caring for patients with coronavirus infection. Losing a loved one due to cancer and other diseases is always tragic. But losing one due to the coronavirus pandemic when it could be prevented is an unforgivable act resulting in the mass murder of innocent lives. It has happened due to ignorance about history, hypocrisy, a lack of training of doctors about alternative medicine, and closed minds about the life-saving medical benefits of high doses of intravenous vitamin C.

I would not have the knowledge to write this article if one event in my life had not happened. At 74 years of age I nearly died of a serious heart attack. Doctors said I'd be dead in a few years without the help of cholesterol-lowering drugs. Luckily, several years earlier I had interviewed Dr. Linus Pauling, two-time winner of the Nobel Prize. He advised me of the important role of vitamin C in decreasing the risk of coronary disease. This is when I made one of the most vital decisions of my life. I decided to take 10,000 milligrams (mg) of vitamin C daily, rather than believe Big Pharma. But I also worried because Pauling, although a brilliant chemist, was not a doctor. Was he right about vitamin C? It was only years later when Dr. Sidney Bush, a English researcher proved that vitamin C could reverse atherosclerosis (hardening of arteries) that I knew I had made the right decision. [1]

Now, 22 years later, the doctors who told me I'd be dead in a few years without cholesterol-lowering drugs are dead, and I'm in my 97th year, still alive. It's this experience with the cardiovascular effects of vitamin C that's triggered my interest in the anti-infective and other medical benefits of vitamin C, especially how it can decrease deaths from viral and bacterial diseases.

Klenner went on to show that large doses of vitamin C could also cure other viral diseases such as meningitis, hepatitis, measles, mumps, pneumonia, shingles and even the poisonous bite of a rattlesnake. [2-4] Since that time other researchers have reported that there is no viral disease that high-dose IVC cannot successfully treat.

But Klenner did not win a popularity contest with his colleagues. He wrote in frustration that "Some physicians would stand by and see their patient die rather than use ascorbic acid because in their finite minds it exists only as a vitamin."

Since that time closed medical minds have resulted in thousands of deaths from coronavirus and other diseases in Canada and worldwide. Because of a misconception that vitamin C is just another vitamin. But there is proof that vitamin C is a potent anti-infective nutrient that attacks both viral and bacterial diseases.

Infection triggers a severe inflammatory cellular reaction in the body which results in a decrease in vitamin C. It's like being caught in a snow storm on a lonely road and running out of gas. But in this case white blood cells need C to fight the infection. And if you have not been taking C on a regular basis, your white blood cells without C are like a gun without bullets.

Many people do not realize that nearly all animals make their own vitamin C. Humans lost this ability eons ago due to a genetic mutation. For instance, dogs produce 5,000 milligrams (mgs) daily. Health Canada maintains humans need only 90 mgs. But if a dog gets an infection, it will automatically produce up to 20,000 mgs daily! ......​

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Lane Vitamin C does have some health benefits, but like vitamin A and D, interactions between many conditions that those with tinnitus often have and medications that those with tinnitus often use, needs consideration. I do wish that I could take a pill a day of vitamin C, but I get severe abdominal pain and kidney stones.

https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/ascorbic-acid,vitamin-c.html

 

[Ed209]

Hi @Lane, good to see you again and I hope you're well.

 

[Lane]

I do wish that I could take a pill a day of vitamin C, but I get severe abdominal pain and kidney stones.

Hi @Greg Sacramento -- Cautionary notes well taken. Have you ever tried liposomal vitamin C? My understanding is the absorption rate is around 90%, while oral vitamin C is around 20% or so. So a person could take much less, and perhaps still get some good benefits. Just a thought.

Also, there's many different kinds of vit. C, such as ascorbic acid, a variety of ascorbates (I use sodium ascorbate), "buffered" vit. C, etc. Different brands can often make a big difference. Where it's from (such as China) can also play a big role. -- If a person can't take any kind orally, you could always just hold some in your mouth for a few minutes. If for no other benefit, it can significantly improve oral and gum health, which is often an area of localized scurvy.

BTW, I recently added nebulized glutathione to my "arsenol". There have been reports of it helping with COVID-19 infections, purportedly because of it's ability to rapidly sop up excess free radicals caused by the infection. Some people believe some of the worst symptoms are caused by an explosion of free radicals created by the virus. It may work along similar lines as vit. C, which also neutralizes free radicals.

I've heard reports that taking tylenol (which is often recommended to COVID-19 patients) can be quite toxic to the liver, and can rapidly deplete glutathione reserves. Nebulized glutathione can rapidly restore those reserves; taking copius amounts of NAC can also be very effective, as it's a precursor to creating glutathione. My understanding is NAC is the "go to" therapy ERs use when someone comes in with a toxic exposure of just about any kind.

Best to all...

 

[linearb]

Been buying into "green" sectors good for the environment issues with Biden going to win.

A friend who works in the banking sector told me that his belief is that many current market prices essentially have a Biden win baked in, because the assumption is if that's not what happens then everything is basically on fire anyway and nothing matters.

I bought a tiny slice of MS recently when I was irritated that I couldn't actually buy a Xbox Series X at preorder, but in general I am barely even contributing to my normal index funds these days because we just had some significant amount of repair work done on the house and that's a black eye to the wallet that is going to take some time to get over.

As long as I keep my income stream, we're good. We don't, at present, have the 1-2 years runway that I generally aspire to, so that's another Scary Reality of covidworld. I realize lots of people are operating with even less safety net now, and that doesn't make me feel better for myself, it just makes me feel bad and worried for society.

 

[Ed209]

@Lane Vitamin C does have some health benefits, but like vitamin A and D, interactions between many conditions that those with tinnitus often have and medications that those with tinnitus often use, needs consideration. I do wish that I could take a pill a day of vitamin C, but I get severe abdominal pain and kidney stones.

https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/ascorbic-acid,vitamin-c.html

Hows your mouth, Greg? I hope you're doing better then you were earlier this year. You deserve a break from all this suffering.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Hows your mouth, Greg? I hope you're doing better then you were earlier this year. You deserve a break from all this suffering.

Thanks Ed. Mouth is extremely painful from a host of dental errors. Before that implant visit for loose tooth from clenching (first time clenching from mother's illnesses) I had nice teeth, no cavities or oral problems.

From dentists, I have severe jaw and nerve damage, TMD. several loose teeth and major infection in jaw and on soft palate - roof of mouth. I get a sac of fluid in soft palate on roof of mouth about 1/3 the size of an egg. It resolves in a few days and develops again every two weeks. Several loose teeth is because my regular dentist broke the cap to my implant. It had to be vibrated out and that loosened teeth on both sides - lower front teeth. Now I will have no bottom front teeth when these teeth are removed.

How are you, mother and family doing Ed?

 

[gav01]

I caught COVID-19. Must have had it for a week before I got tested without truly realising I had COVID-19 until I lost my sense of smell. I didn't have it bad at all and had the mildest of symptoms. Felt a bit rubbish over the second week and that was the worse I'd say (I did have other slight flu symptoms in the first week).

My tinnitus was the same all the way through and even seemed a bit quieter for a couple of nights but strangely right at the end of the two weeks when all my symptoms went and I felt my tinnitus become 100% louder (a spike). It's been 6 days since and over the past day it has become a bit louder again for no reason.

It may be be stress induced (I hope) as I started feeling depressed and fed up around the time the spike started as I had a few things on my mind.

I'm not really sure when flu induced tinnitus increase (if it is) is supposed to start to be honest. I did also notice that my skin conditions (not the COVID-19 skin symptoms) that I hardly ever suffer with become bad around the same time as the tinnitus spike.

 

[linearb]

Hi @Greg Sacramento -- Cautionary notes well taken. Have you ever tried liposomal vitamin C? My understanding is the absorption rate is around 90%, while oral vitamin C is around 20% or so. So a person could take much less, and perhaps still get some good benefits. Just a thought.

Hi @Lane , hope you are well! I know this wasn't to me but I wanted to chime in because I have some direct experience. My skepticism around some of the claims around vit-C certainly didn't stop me from experimenting a lot, since it seems pretty close to as safe as they come.

My own context was that I was trying to do a chelation protocl that used a combination of ALA and relatively high dose vit-C. I don't remember doses used but they were grams, and the idea was you dosed to "bowel tolerance", and kept doing that for a period of time. ("Bowel tolerance" increases as your body gets better at handing it, I guess).

Nothing bad happened, except some poop, but it also didn't seem to have any beneficial effects for me after a while, so I stopped.

I'm not really sure when flu induced tinnitus increase (if it is) is supposed to start to be honest. I did also notice that my skin conditions (not the COVID-19 skin symptoms) that I hardly ever suffer with become bad around the same time as the tinnitus spike.

My experience is that spikes from common respiratory infections or a more serious influenza can take weeks to settle, unfortunately: the e-tubes get gunked, stuff is inflamed, and it takes a while for all that to resolve. The good news is, as far as we know from the data. it's probably more likely that you have this very normal complication, than some weird COVID complication.

Sorry you got this.

Anecdotally -- I also have skin issues, they get worse based on... how well my immune system is working? And I have noticed that sometimes I get breakouts / etc at the same time as tinnitus spikes.

Sounds like your immune system is tired! Try to rest up, chicken soup, bone broth, all that good stuff

 

[Ed209]

Thanks Ed. Mouth is extremely painful from a host of dental errors. Before that implant visit for loose tooth from clenching (first time clenching from mother's illnesses) I had nice teeth, no cavities or oral problems.

From dentists, I have severe jaw and nerve damage, TMD. several loose teeth and major infection in jaw and on soft palate - roof of mouth. I get a sac of fluid in soft palate on roof of mouth about 1/3 the size of an egg. It resolves in a few days and develops again every two weeks. Several loose teeth is because my regular dentist broke the cap to my implant. It had to be vibrated out and that loosened teeth on both sides - lower front teeth. Now I will have no bottom front teeth when these teeth are removed.

How are you, mother and family doing Ed?

That sounds like hell on Earth, Greg. It must be incredibly difficult for you to navigate each day with so many problems. You have my deepest sympathy for having to put up with all that.

My mom still isn't doing well, and we're just the same as we were at the start of the year, to be honest. Not a whole lot has changed. Life is becoming a bit more of a grind with COVID-19 around.

Stay safe and take care of yourself.

 

[gav01]

@linearb I am back at work. But I did rest a lot when I was off work. It was nice to relax

 

[linearb]

If we can't control disease number, economic number bad?

(Source is the financial times, some "looks too good" outliers like India are clearly a result of bad reporting of cases)

 

[Sevv]

If we can't control disease number, economic number bad?

(Source is the financial times, some "looks too good" outliers like India are clearly a result of bad reporting of cases)

Hail our new Asian overlords I guess?

People over here in Switzerland don't have the best discipline with the measures. And the numbers are still climbing.

Fortunately my personal risk of getting is fairly low regarding my work situation and leisure time.