Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19) and Tinnitus

[Bill Bauer]

You'd think people would want to listen to what the experts have to say

Why won't you listen to the priests!?!

especially when one is not qualified to assert meaningful opinions in this field

I am qualified to look at the "deaths from all causes" figures. By the way, MY education actually qualifies me to judge empirical evidence.

Which brings me to this gem:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/443061/number-of-deaths-in-canada/

We can see that the last 12-month period is July 1, 2019 and June 30, 2020, and it includes the deaths for March-May which was the only time when mortality was above average this year (https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2020017-eng.htm )

The mortality in that 12-month period was 300.31. This represents a 4.47% increase over the previous 12-month period: (300.31 - 287.46)/287.46.

To understand whether this is a lot, let's take a look at the increase in mortality between 2014 and 2015. It was 5.18% = (266.16-253.05)/253.05

I am old enough to remember The Great Plague of 2015. It wasn't TOO bad, and keep in mind that the deaths were increasing at a rate that was almost 16% higher than the rate at which deaths had increased as a result of COVID-19!

[(5.18-4.47)/4.47 = 15.9%

By the way, some of the 4.47% increase is due to the increasing population and the increasing number of old people. We shouldn't forget about the fact that this year's flu is killing people with pre-existing conditions, and this means that we should expect a lower mortality rate over the next year or two, as those people would have died in a year or two if not for COVID-19.]

 

[Bill Bauer]

None of your posts have helped me and I've had tinnitus for years.

That's because you Haven't followed my advice.

You must have a form of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

@Bill Bauer I always appreciate your optimism and encouragement.

@Bill Bauer you are very helpful!

Thanks Bill Bauer for holding up the mirror.

I could go on, but I don't have time.

See the comments and ratings on the posts in:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/spontaneous-recovery-stats-many-recover-3-studies.21441/

and

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...eone-else-who-has-tinnitus.26850/#post-307822

Now what?

More people died of Covid in the year to August than have died annually from flu and pneumonia combined in any year since 2000.

See, what you need to look at is "all cause mortality". And the reason you need to look at it is that if the statement above meant that COVID-19 is actually unlike the seasonal flu, the all cause mortality would be rising. It isn't rising, so this means that the doctors are just classifying deaths as COVID-19, that in the past they would attribute to something else.

 

[Lane]

I trust in the fact that we have people actively working around the clock to help not only stop the spread but see what the hell they can do about the long-termers.

@DaveN -- Not to shatter your optimism, but it's probably unlikely health professionals are looking seriously into what might be done for the "long-haulers", or longer-termers as you put it. I say this as someone who's dealt with ME/CFS for many years (which is what it appears long-termers are likely dealing with), and have perused ME/CFS forums for decades.

There's just no easy answers that conventional medicine has been able to come up with for people with various degrees of post viral syndrome. Most of the success stories are usually only partial at best, and is a result of making some kind of foundational changes in lifestyle that offset some of the inherent weaknesses that led to becoming vulnerable to ME/CFS in the first place.

 

[Sevv]

@DaveN -- Not to shatter your optimism, but it's probably unlikely health professionals are looking seriously into what might be done for the "long-haulers", or longer-termers as you put it. I say this as someone who's dealt with ME/CFS for many years (which is what it appears long-termers are likely dealing with), and have perused ME/CFS forums for decades.

There's just no easy answers that conventional medicine has been able to come up with for people with various degrees of post viral syndrome. Most of the success stories are usually only partial at best, and is a result of making some kind of foundational changes in lifestyle that offset some of the inherent weaknesses that led to becoming vulnerable to ME/CFS in the first place.

First of, my respect to you for dealing with ME/CFS for such a long time, I wasn't aware of that. I consider it easily to be worse than tinnitus, especially since there's no treatment in sight. Still, I wouldn't yet be so pessimistic about research (I am aware that there is next to no research for ME/CFS). Going from my knowledge ME/CFS is a somewhat rare disorder that is also complicated to resolve for research, so there is little interest financially and doesn't offer much prestige (medical research often also seems to be about prestige...). Long COVID-19 has all the potential to become much more common than classic ME/CFS, so there might be more financial, personal or even political interest in finding a solution. In contrast, tinnitus is a complicated problem to resolve that however is common, so that's probably why there is actual research, even if it's less than we would like. Prevalence of ME/CFS seems to be around 0,2% (varying numbers are found), while estimates for long COVID-19 are about 5-10% of those infected. So going by that, if actually a whole country were to be infected it would be about half as common as tinnitus (10-15% of population), which is still very common (plus it would incur a lot higher societal costs than tinnitus, increasing interest in finding a solution hopefully).

 

[Lane]

I consider it easily to be worse than tinnitus

Hi @Sevv -- Thank you for your kind post and words. I share our assessment on how ME/CFS compares to tinnitus. Of note is that there is actually a lot of crossover between the two conditions, and many with ME/CFS have serious cases of tinnitus and/or hyperacusis. Many people with tinnitus have discovered that staying busy, doing workouts, and other things helps them cope with their tinnitus. Because of the serious lack of energy and functionality to do much of anything (many with ME/CFS are bedbound), that's not an option for them.

there is little interest financially and doesn't offer much prestige (medical research often also seems to be about prestige...)

Not only that, but for many years any medical researcher who even expressed an interest in researching it could count on it being held against them by the medical community. For decades, the prevailing attitudes in the medical profession claimed it was mostly depression. Anyone that challenged that assessment, or speculated that it was some kind of organic illness, could count on that having a devastating impact on their career. -- In the public at large, it was often derided and made fun of by being called the "yuppie flu". There's a hope in the ME/CFS community that the spotlight on long-haulers will lead to research that will benefit both them and those with CFS.

BTW, many who develop ME/CFS report it happened after a viral infection, thus it has many similarities with post-viral syndrome. What is noteworthy, is that many also report developing it after a vaccination. As I recall, the most common vaccination that leads to ME/CFS is the hepatitis C vaccine. Another real bad one is the HPV vaccine. It's heartbreaking to me to see how many young adolescent girls go from having a totally normal childhood, to one of being unable to function in a meaningful way. They can no longer go to school, have a hard time thinking, and many are mostly bedbound. -- Because of the devastating kind of brain and spinal cord injuries that can result from taking this vaccine, the risk/reward ratio on HPV vaccinations is absolutely horrible.

For anybody interested, here's a moving account of one person's experience with ME/CFS...

Losing touch with Self

Before I became ill I was quite creative in the literary and artistic sense, ambitious, took initiative in the world and started projects, constantly contemplated deeper philosophical ideas and made interesting and unusual connections in my mind.

I am a very spiritual and self-aware person by nature, but these days I feel as if I only have awareness of my own belly button. When I'm tired (which is 95 percent of the time lately) I lack the energy to keep my mind from going in loops about the most mundane and insipid of things. I've lost the inspiration that used to make me passionate about living, where every day held new and promising horizons full of possible adventures. Once upon a time I deeply yearned to change this world (and I don't mean in the petty New Age way, I promise); now I don't even know if I can change myself.

I sorely miss the connection I used to have to the deeper aspects of myself; I guess I still do feel that sometimes, but rarely. The clarity, lucidity, knowing, confidence. The unshakeable conviction and belief in myself and my purpose. These days I feel like undefinable goo, some kind of larva indefinitely suspended in time just watching the world go past in a blur...

My intention in posting this isn't to complain or receive pity, but rather to chronicle my journey and share what I'm going through with those who might resonate.​

 

[linearb]

This ain't March, folks. Continuing to even entertain "arguments" from people who are debating the very fundamental facts of this disease, is both a waste of time, and turns this thread into a shouting match against 1-2 people. It seems a lot easier to just ignore content like that, and let the adult conversations rise to the top, as it were. There's nothing to debate about a lot of this stuff at this point: COVID-19 is vastly more deadly than any known influenza and creates long term complications that are unlike anything in the medical literature.

The math is not on the side of the "it's a flu" people, and never has been. Think about this:

There's your 0.1% IFR assuming the whole state has already been infected, which it definitely has not and that number is going to rise.

There's a lot of reasonable things to talk about and debate right now, in terms of what the most practical actions people should be taking are in light of a lack of a consistent federal response, how people who are forced to leave home for work are disadvantaged, etc. It doesn't seem interesting or useful to try to "debate" the very fundamental basic science of this anymore, though -- you may as well be arguing with someone who thinks the earth is flat (and yes, those people still exist, too).

Sweden has decided their approach was bad, something that was pretty obvious.
https://www.ft.com/content/67fc5152-d500-4b9e-ad5c-79e1bf2b68e2

Warning that the situation was "going to get worse", Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said on Monday the limit on public gatherings in Sweden would be cut from 50 people to eight. "It is a clear and sharp signal to every person in our country as to what applies in the future. Don't go to the gym, don't go the library, don't have dinner out, don't have parties — cancel!" Mr Lofven told a press conference. Sweden has stood out from the rest of Europe by refusing to order a legal lockdown and instead preferring to rely on recommendations to people to wash their hands, keep a distance, and work from home. The country's health authorities said in the spring that Sweden was unlikely to be hit by a second wave as it suffered more deaths than its Nordic neighbours in the first wave. But Sweden's cases per capita, hospitalisations and deaths are all increasing rapidly now.

 

[MindOverMatter]

The coronavirus pandemic has worsened tinnitus for many sufferers – new research

(I have not checked if this has already been posted).

 

[Sevv]

@Lane

The world is totally insane when considering ME/CFS research damages your career. My biggest hope for you guys is that it's something that can be controlled with some sort of brain stimulation device once it is known more precisely what's going wrong with ME/CFS. Maybe it's a hypoactivity in the brain instead of hyperactivity?

Considering the risk with HPV vaccination, I assume there might be a similar risk with the COVID-19 vaccine. Do you know anything about the flu vaccine?

 

[Michael Leigh]

I sorely miss the connection I used to have to the deeper aspects of myself; I guess I still do feel that sometimes, but rarely. The clarity, lucidity, knowing, confidence. The unshakeable conviction and belief in myself and my purpose. These days I feel like undefinable goo, some kind of larva indefinitely suspended in time just watching the world go past in a blur...

@Lane

I know it isn't easy. I reached my lowest ebb with tinnitus in 2010 but kept on trying, even though it took 4 years to habituate for the second time. After this period I wasn't out of the woods as the tinnitus changed to large fluctuations in intensity and still took time to get used to it. You can recover so take things slowly and try not to be too hard on yourself. You are able to write informative and interesting posts so have much to give, don't lose it.

Take care.
Michael

 

[Lane]

The world is totally insane when considering ME/CFS research damages your career.

@Sevv -- You're correct, it is insane. It's not the only instance of "medical curiosity" being a potential impediment to career development. For decades it was a death knell for those who were interested in researching whether cannabis had potential health benefits. About the only thing that would be funded was if a researcher was specifically looking for something negative that could be reported.

My biggest hope for you guys is that it's something that can be controlled with some sort of brain stimulation device

I think that's an astute observation for you to know that could potentially be therapeutic value in such a device. It's my intent to pursue this further at some point. I strongly suspect that if I can find something along these lines that helps (such as getting more consistent deeper sleep), then tinnitus improvement will likely follow.

Considering the risk with HPV vaccination, I assume there might be a similar risk with the COVID-19 vaccine. Do you know anything about the flu vaccine?

The latest I heard was that they were still putting mercury in the adjuvants. I also read at least one report of somebody developing ME/CFS after getting a flu shot. Many people will insist that the extremely small amount of mercury in a flu shot could not possibly cause harm. What they neglect to say is that vaccines also (from my understanding) often carry substances (such as Polysorbate 80) that will open up the blood brain barrier. This would obviously make the brain MUCH more vulnerable to any toxins that may be circulating in the blood. -- These flu shot ingredients were listed in the below-linked letter:

Influenza - Egg Albumin (Ovalbumin), Egg Protein, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Sodium Deoxycholate, Phosphate Buffers, Thimerosal

https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2019r1/Downloads/CommitteeMeetingDocument/168450#:~:text=In vaccines, polysorbate 80 helps,-brain barrier (BBB).

POLYSORBATE 80 - ... In vaccines, polysorbate 80 helps disperse all the ingredients—including aluminum and mercury—evenly in the liquid. They key danger of polysorbate 80 is that it assists in the delivery of compounds—including mercury and aluminum—across the blood-brain barrier (BBB).

The blood-brain barrier is weak and easily trespassed during the first two or three years of life and often during the senior years. In other age groups the BBB normally restricts passage of substances from the bloodstream. An article by pediatrician Dr. Lawrence Palevsky suggests that, even for the latter, polysorbate 80 in vaccines may allow other vaccine ingredients to enter the brain.​

 

[Bill Bauer]

There's nothing to debate about a lot of this stuff at this point: COVID-19 is vastly more deadly than any known influenza

If it were deadlier, you would be able to debate the EMPIRICAL Evidence that I had posted. Your rebuttal is "I am obviously right".

You are a clown.

As for the tweet - "one in every 1000 people dead!!!!!!!!OMG!!!!!!!"

How uneducated you have to be to not see that what is important here is to know what rate at which people died in that state back in 2019?

According to this, the mortality rate for the US was 8.782 per 1000 people, or 0.878 per 1000 people. Of course this is for the entire US, so like I said what we need to know is what it was in North Dakota back in 2019. We also need to know the variability of this number (i.e., how much of an impact would a "bad flu" year (e.g., 2018) would have. And, like I said earlier, what we need to compare this to is to a Really bad flu year like 1958 and 1969, back when there was a jump in mortality, but people carried on (and most weren't even aware that there was a bad flu that year) because it was a bad flu and not The Plague.

Sweden has decided their approach was bad, something that was pretty obvious.
https://www.ft.com/content/67fc5152-d500-4b9e-ad5c-79e1bf2b68e2

Yes, Sweden has fallen.

Their example has been proving that there is no reason for any of the restrictions, so it was just a matter of time before they had to be forced to submit.

Note that their Death Rate is still low. They have been getting 15-30 deaths a day across the entire country. Back in March they were ok with 90-110 deaths per day. Of course we can't even know for sure whether these are actually deaths from this year's flu. What matters is their excess deaths.

A dozen or two deaths per day during a flu season isn't "the second wave of the Plague". Also, take a look at their death graph to see whether you would describe it as "increasing rapidly".

 

[Ed209]

It doesn't seem interesting or useful to try to "debate" the very fundamental basic science of this anymore, though -- you may as well be arguing with someone who thinks the earth is flat (and yes, those people still exist, too).

What, wait... so the Earth isn't flat?

 

[Daniel Lion]

Hi @Sevv -- Thank you for your kind post and words. I share our assessment on how ME/CFS compares to tinnitus. Of note is that there is actually a lot of crossover between the two conditions, and many with ME/CFS have serious cases of tinnitus and/or hyperacusis. Many people with tinnitus have discovered that staying busy, doing workouts, and other things helps them cope with their tinnitus. Because of the serious lack of energy and functionality to do much of anything (many with ME/CFS are bedbound), that's not an option for them.

Not only that, but for many years any medical researcher who even expressed an interest in researching it could count on it being held against them by the medical community. For decades, the prevailing attitudes in the medical profession claimed it was mostly depression. Anyone that challenged that assessment, or speculated that it was some kind of organic illness, could count on that having a devastating impact on their career. -- In the public at large, it was often derided and made fun of by being called the "yuppie flu". There's a hope in the ME/CFS community that the spotlight on long-haulers will lead to research that will benefit both them and those with CFS.

BTW, many who develop ME/CFS report it happened after a viral infection, thus it has many similarities with post-viral syndrome. What is noteworthy, is that many also report developing it after a vaccination. As I recall, the most common vaccination that leads to ME/CFS is the hepatitis C vaccine. Another real bad one is the HPV vaccine. It's heartbreaking to me to see how many young adolescent girls go from having a totally normal childhood, to one of being unable to function in a meaningful way. They can no longer go to school, have a hard time thinking, and many are mostly bedbound. -- Because of the devastating kind of brain and spinal cord injuries that can result from taking this vaccine, the risk/reward ratio on HPV vaccinations is absolutely horrible.

For anybody interested, here's a moving account of one person's experience with ME/CFS...

Losing touch with Self

Before I became ill I was quite creative in the literary and artistic sense, ambitious, took initiative in the world and started projects, constantly contemplated deeper philosophical ideas and made interesting and unusual connections in my mind.

I am a very spiritual and self-aware person by nature, but these days I feel as if I only have awareness of my own belly button. When I'm tired (which is 95 percent of the time lately) I lack the energy to keep my mind from going in loops about the most mundane and insipid of things. I've lost the inspiration that used to make me passionate about living, where every day held new and promising horizons full of possible adventures. Once upon a time I deeply yearned to change this world (and I don't mean in the petty New Age way, I promise); now I don't even know if I can change myself.

I sorely miss the connection I used to have to the deeper aspects of myself; I guess I still do feel that sometimes, but rarely. The clarity, lucidity, knowing, confidence. The unshakeable conviction and belief in myself and my purpose. These days I feel like undefinable goo, some kind of larva indefinitely suspended in time just watching the world go past in a blur...

My intention in posting this isn't to complain or receive pity, but rather to chronicle my journey and share what I'm going through with those who might resonate.​

Thanks for sharing Lane.

I'll catch you up around the forum...

Take care friend.

Daniel

 

[Bill Bauer]

What, wait... so the Earth isn't flat?

Your argument is "I am as sure that I am right, despite all of the evidence that was shown to me that I can't address, as I am sure that the Earth is a sphere." Another clown.

As for @david c, please explain what which part of my post doesn't make sense to you. Or were you laughing at the people I called out?

 

[Bill Bauer]

@linearb I didn't realize that the mortality rate in North Dakota is almost 9 in every 1000 people and the tweet addressed to rubes that you had quoted mentioned 1 in 1000 people dying of COVID-19. So that means that there is no substance to that tweet and I shouldn't have wasted my time. I thought he was saying that the rate increased from 0.89 to 1, but he wasn't talking about the only thing that matters - the overall fatality rate, that, for all we know and based by the fact that the death rate in Canada hasn't really changed as a result of this year's flu, isn't even higher than it was last year.

 

[Ed209]

Your argument is "I am as sure that I am right, despite all of the evidence that was shown to me that I can't address, as I am sure that the Earth is a sphere." Another clown.

It was just a joke to lighten the mood, Bill.

 

[just1morething]

@Bill Bauer, the Governor of Minnesota has implemented more restrictions starting this Friday due to COVID-19 infections increasing rapidly. The hospitals are getting overloaded so something has to be done until a vaccine is available. Probably the most cases are people with co-morbidities.

COVID In Minnesota: Gov. Walz Unveils Restrictions On Social Gatherings, Restaurants, Gyms, Youth Sports

 

[Bill Bauer]

It was just a joke to lighten the mood, Bill.

I apologize for using the word "clown" in my message.

But how come you won't say what you think about the figures and facts that I quoted?

If there is a reason that I am missing for why those facts don't imply that COVID-19 isn't as bad as the flu during of the the Really bad flu seasons (e.g., 1969), when nobody really cared about the flu, then I would like to know about it.

 

[david c]

As for @david c, please explain what which part of my post doesn't make sense to you. Or were you laughing at the people I called out?

So just to clarify Bill. I find your belief that you understand the impact of COVID-19 so much better than the people on here who have been directly affected by it laughable. I find a lot of your language, especially the stupid "plague" references juvenile

COVID-19 isn't "the flu". It's a coronavirus. If you are unsure of the difference, I would google and try and take your information from a reputable medical source rather than a conspiracy website for nutters.

I don't really know what your continued references to the 1968-9 viral pandemic are about. But if your question is "Is this the type of viral pandemic which we might get once or twice a century, which unchecked will kill millions of people and for which we need to take effective measures to reduce its spread?" The answer to that is "Yes".

 

[Daniel Lion]

I apologize for using the word "clown" in my message.

But how come you won't say what you think about the figures and facts that I quoted?

If there is a reason that I am missing for why those facts don't imply that COVID-19 isn't as bad as the flu during of the the Really bad flu seasons (e.g., 1969), when nobody really cared about the flu, then I would like to know about it.

Hey Bill,

Total respect... you are a good man.

I was thinking of you today while carving wood.
Sorry somebody used the F word with you, that ain't right.

I'll have to catch you later as well, need to pick up my kid from school. Just wanted to give you a shout.

See you soon,
Daniel

 

[Frédéric]

Sorry if it has been already posted.

Otolaryngological symptoms in COVID-19

Purpose
The aim of this study was to evaluate the frequency of various otolaryngological symptoms in patients with COVID-19 with regard to age, gender and pneumonia-related thorax CT characteristics.

Methods
This is a retrospective study conducted between March 25, 2020 and April 25, 2020. The anamnesis and medical files of 155 patients who applied to our outpatient COVID-19 clinic were evaluated. Patients with positive PCR tests for COVID-19 who were aged between 18–72 years were divided into groups according to the presence of otolaryngological symptoms. The differences between the two groups were examined.

Results
Of the 155 patients, 89 (57.4%) had otolaryngological symptoms. The mean age of the patients was 36.3 ± 8.1 years. Ninety-one (58.7%) patients were female, and 64 (42.2%) were male. Fifty-eight (37.4%) patients had received a clinical diagnosis of viral pneumonia with ground glass findings in tomography. The frequency of otolaryngological symptoms was higher in females than males (p: 0.029). The otolaryngological symptoms were also observed to be more frequent in the 18–30 age group (p: 0.013) compared to other age groups.

Conclusions
Tinnitus, gingivitis, sudden hearing loss, Bell's palsy, and hoarseness can be seen in COVID-19, albeit rarely. Revealing the otolaryngological symptoms of COVID-19, and obtaining more information about the extent of disease will be useful in managing patients and their complaints associated with otolaryngology

Full article: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00405-020-06319-7

 

[Bill Bauer]

I find your belief that you understand the impact of COVID-19 so much better than the people on here who have been directly affected by it laughable.

Are you saying that one has to have cancer before one can make any judgement about what the cancer stats say?

I have had the flu, and I quoted studies that describe the complications that can happen as a result of the flu. There has never been any studies that show that complications due to this year's flu are more frequent than the complications due to flu in earlier seasons. As the studies that I had quoted clearly show, it is certainly not the case that the complications this year are more Serious.

I find a lot of your language, especially the stupid "plague" references juvenile

Not an argument. Also, what is worse, juvenile language or the actual carrying on as if what we are dealing with here is a Plague?!

COVID-19 isn't "the flu". It's a coronavirus.

When I use the term "the flu", I am implicitly saying "for all intents and purposes it is the flu". This means that its mortality and the rate of complications is similar to that of the seasonal flu.

I don't really know what your continued references to the 1968-9 viral pandemic are about.

1957-58 Asian Flu: "Approximately 1.1 million people died worldwide, according to the CDC; of those deaths, 116,000 were in the US. Most of the cases affected young children, the elderly and pregnant women."

Note, that back then they weren't inflating the numbers like they do now, and also back in 1957 the world population was 2.9 billion, which is 37% or about a third of what the world population is now. that means that the mortality per million of population was 2.7 times the death toll. To match that mortality, we would need about 3 million people to die worldwide.

The flu this year is also less deadly than 1968 "Hong Kong Flu" Pandemic. My mom caught the flu back in 1969 and came close to death.

"It started in 1968 and lasted until 1969-70. The virus responsible for the pandemic is believed to have evolved from the strain of influenza that caused the 1957 pandemic through "antigenic shift" — an abrupt, major change in the virus that results in new surface proteins, creating a virus subtype that humans have little or no immunity to because the body doesn't recognize its surface proteins. According to the CDC, approximately 1 million people around the world died from this pandemic"

The quotes above are from
https://weather.com/health/cold-flu/news/2020-01-31-5-worst-flu-outbreaks-in-recent-history

The population back in 1968 was 3.5 billion, which is 44% of today's population. To reach the same mortality rate per million of population, a flu would have to kill 2.2 million people worldwide.

So it isn't nearly as deadly, yet back then nobody has even considered lockdowns, and I am pretty sure that back in 1957 and 1968 most people weren't even aware of those pandemics.

People carry on as if this were something like the Spanish flu. Back in 1918, it killed between 50 and 100 million people. The world population in 1919 was 1.8 billion, 23% of what it is now. So to match the rate of mortality, 2020 flu has to kill at least 50 million times 7.8/1.8 = about 220 MILLION people (over 400 million, if we go with the upper estimate of 100 million). So what we have (despite all of the overestimation going on) is more than 200 times (or even more than 400 times!) Less deadly than the Spanish Flu of 1918...

"Is this the type of viral pandemic which we might get once or twice a century, which unchecked will kill millions of people and for which we need to take effective measures to reduce its spread?"

The point is that back in 1958 and 1969 it was reported on page 40 of the newspaper, because people took it for what it was - a flu. They didn't treat something that is worse than what we have today like the plague, the way we treat this year's flu as if it was a plague.

 

[UKBloke]

UK perspective from Dr Mike Yeadon, ex Vice President & Chief Scientist for Allergy & Respiratory at Pfizer.

@Bill Bauer I think you'll find him interesting:

 

[linearb]

What, wait... so the Earth isn't flat?

It's an oblate spheroid according to nerds.

 

[Bill Bauer]

UK perspective from Dr Mike Yeadon, ex Vice President & Chief Scientist for Allergy & Respiratory at Pfizer.

@Bill Bauer I think you'll find him interesting:

Thank you - that was very interesting!

He mentions a theory that the countries that had a higher than average 2020 flu mortality, had milder than average 2018 and 2019 flu mortality. So those countries had a larger group of vulnerable people. He says the UK has had one of the worst COVID-19 outbreaks, which was 0.06% of the population dying - equivalent to 4 weeks of normal mortality (or an increase in mortality of 1/12 = 8%).

He then mentions that 2020 is 8th in terms of deaths since 1993 (so 8th on a list of 28 =====> How laughable is

But if your question is "Is this the type of viral pandemic which we might get once or twice a century, which unchecked will kill millions of people and for which we need to take effective measures to reduce its spread?" The answer to that is "Yes".

Any comment, @david c?

 

[Lane]

Another real bad one is the HPV vaccine. It's heartbreaking to me to see how many young adolescent girls go from having a totally normal childhood, to one of being unable to function in a meaningful way. They can no longer go to school, have a hard time thinking, and many are mostly bedbound. -- Because of the devastating kind of brain and spinal cord injuries that can result from taking this vaccine, the risk/reward ratio on HPV vaccinations is absolutely horrible.

It's not difficult to run across stories like the one below on the horrors of HPV vaccination reactions. Last I heard, about 150 young adolescent women had died from it. The number who end up with similar symptoms as the young woman below is in the tens of thousands. Are the extremely modest (and questionable) benefits really worth the risk? In my opinion, no.

Today, the national law firm of Baum Hedlund Aristei & Goldman and I filed our fourth Gardasil lawsuit against Merck, on behalf of Sahara Walker, 19, of Lake Mills, Wisconsin, who suffered debilitating injuries from the HPV vaccine.

When she took the Gardasil jab at age 11, Sahara was happy, healthy, popular, athletic and an academic superstar who had just scored in the top 97th percentile of all Wisconsin students in math.

Two days later, Sahara was vomiting and experiencing headaches, severe body aches, fevers and soul-crushing fatigue that made her sleep her days away. Within a month she was either bedridden or wheelchair bound.

Her symptoms worsened. In 2015, Sahara endured 54 doctor appointments and her medication regimen climbed to 55 pills per day. Specialists diagnosed Sahara with neurocardiogenic syncope, postural orthostatic tachycardia (POTS), a form of orthostatic intolerance called orthostatic hypotension, small fiber neuropathy and severe autoimmune autonomic neuropathy. Her injuries forced her to homeschool from grades 6 to 12.

Today, Sahara, 19, takes 14 prescription medications and receives an expensive intravenous immunoglobulin treatment every three weeks.

"I want to warn kids of the terrible risks for this vaccine and let other injured girls know that they are not alone," Sahara explained. "The Gardasil vaccine stole my life. Before Gardasil, my future was filled with endless possibilities. Now, my life is a parade of accommodations and medical interventions. It's not how a 19 year old should live. I'm fighting for all of us."

If Merck had warned Sahara's mother about Gardasil's dangers, she never would have allowed her daughter to receive the HPV vaccine.

"We are pro-vaccine, but we would have never had Sahara get Gardasil if we knew the risks," Sahara's mother said. "She went from perfectly healthy to sick and disabled within days of the shot. It's beyond any doubt that Gardasil caused her injuries."

Internal documents showed that Merck cherry-picked its own data to mislead the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and doctors about Gardasil's safety and efficacy. We aim to get justice for Sahara and others impacted and to force Merck to stop defrauding the public so that we can protect our children.
​

 

[Bill Bauer]

The hospitals are getting overloaded so something has to be done until a vaccine is available.

I haven't seen the story you linked to mention hospitals getting "overloaded". It mentions "strain" on health workers, which it never defines, and which is something that we can always invoke.

If one is to use the "overloaded hospitals" as a justification for anything, they would have to explain exactly what fraction of the hospitals are operating at what capacity that is considered to be overly high, and also give a sense of how this year's capacity utilization compares to that over the past 20 years. In other words, what fraction of the hospitals are normally overloaded, etc.

 

[Star64]

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/does-anyone-need-gardasil_oOmR69uyEQqThML.html

Not many people are aware of just how dangerous this vaccine is. Hopefully that changes in the future as the side effects can be horrendous and life changing for many young people.

I am sure people would think twice about giving consent for their teenagers to have this drug if they only knew the truth!

 

[UKBloke]

Thank you - that was very interesting!

He mentions a theory that the countries that had a higher than average 2020 flu mortality, had milder than average 2018 and 2019 flu mortality. So those countries had a larger group of vulnerable people. He says the UK has had one of the worst COVID-19 outbreaks, which was 0.06% of the population dying - equivalent to 4 weeks of normal mortality (or an increase in mortality of 1/12 = 8%).

He then mentions that 2020 is 8th in terms of deaths since 1993 (so 8th on a list of 28 =====> How laughable is

Any comment, @david c?

He's been a voice of reason for me this year. I discovered him on Twitter (a site I'd never used before March) so hopefully that will dispel the myth that one can only find conspiracy theorists out there. It's taken less than 24 hours for YouTube to pull the video. A sad indictment of the world we're living in unfortunately.

 

[Bill Bauer]

It's taken less than 24 hours for YouTube to pull the video.

Shocking and sinister...