DIY Low-Level Laser Therapy for Tinnitus on a Budget — LLLT Under 100,-

[Bobby B]

@Cal18
Based on your cause for T - not inner ear trauma/damage this type of light therapy approach will do absolutely nothing in your case .
maybe try to understand what causes your anxiety ?

In terms of device , the 5w IR light as posted above is more powerful and more suited to ear due to probe size and it's also a lot cheaper .

 

[WildMan]

I have been using that flashlight (Ilauke, IR-850) and within the time I have been using it, I have been experiencing some crazy sounds and spikes. I have had a low base fleeting T sound I have never heard before come and go. One day the sharp ringing in both my ears seemed to have vanished but there was a lower/wide T sound in it's place, (I essentially hear 2 sounds in both ears, sharp and low/wide). The sharp ringing came back though. I have never experienced anything like that since I have had T

I'm not sure what is going on but the level of spikes I have been getting (they come and go) only happen when I use the flashlight. I'm still on the fence on whether I want to get the lucky laser or try something else like the LED lamp, the LLLT devices are absurdly priced.

 

[SilverSpiral]

I have been using that flashlight (Ilauke, IR-850) and within the time I have been using it, I have been experiencing some crazy sounds and spikes. I have had a low base fleeting T sound I have never heard before come and go. One day the sharp ringing in both my ears seemed to have vanished but there was a lower/wide T sound in it's place, (I essentially hear 2 sounds in both ears, sharp and low/wide). The sharp ringing came back though. I have never experienced anything like that since I have had T

I'm not sure what is going on but the level of spikes I have been getting (they come and go) only happen when I use the flashlight. I'm still on the fence on whether I want to get the lucky laser or try something else like the LED lamp, the LLLT devices are absurdly priced.

How often/long are you using it? You never had T changes or spikes ever before except when using it?

 

[WildMan]

How often/long are you using it? You never had T changes or spikes ever before except when using it?

I will use it 2-3 times a week. sometimes I will use it 10 min straight each ear or I will do 5 min each ear for 15 min total. I hold the flash light with my hand as I'm checking my emails or something.

I have never heard changes like this in my T prior to using the flashlight especially that one day the sharpness seemed to have just disappeared (there was still a T sound but not nearly as bad). I haven't even left my property these last 3-4 months so I haven't been out and about, being exposed to other noises.

 

[Bobby B]

That's a good sign it's doing something

If you read the main LLLT thread back from the beginning EVERYONE who had some results on LLLT at the clinics reported these crazy spikes - that's normal and even WIlden and Harila cleary mentionned those as normal phenomenon during the healing phase

This Lamp is the way to go - plenty of power more Than those home lasers

 

[lymebite]

@Bobby B

What do you think about this device from Red Light Man? It is 830 nm, 200 mW / square cm, and costs $89. They will include the correct type of power plug for different countries.

I realize the IR hunting flashlight is less expensive, but $89 is still pretty reasonable compared to the lasers costing thousands, and unlike the flashlight, it includes the specific power specifications, so dosage can be determined.

Judging by the diagram, at a distance of zero cm (so pressed up against the ear) the diameter of the beam is about 10 cm. So, maybe a little big, but maybe not really to ensure hitting the cochlea.

At zero cm, it delivers 200 mW / square cm. The beam angle is pretty narrow so will not be diffusing too much.

https://redlightman.com/product/infrared-mini-830/

Red Light Man discusses dosage calculation here:

https://redlightman.com/blog/complete-guide-light-therapy-dosing/

Red Light Man seems to be kindred spirit @Cityjohn. He is selling high-powered, low-cost light therapy devices because he could not find such products on the market. From his website:

"Due to the massive amounts of scientific studies done on light therapy (LLLT, photobiomodulation, etc.), the company founder was curious to try it out for himself, but quickly noticed the inadequate availability of high powered light therapy devices on the market. Most products were far too weak to be effective in a reasonable time frame, not to mention over-priced.

After months of prototype product development, this site was built to provide the public with access to effective light therapy devices at a reasonable price."

 

[Tom Cnyc]

@Bobby B

What do you think about this device from Red Light Man? It is 830 nm, 200 mW / square cm, and costs $89. They will include the correct type of power plug for different countries.

I realize the IR hunting flashlight is less expensive, but $89 is still pretty reasonable compared to the lasers costing thousands, and unlike the flashlight, it includes the specific power specifications, so dosage can be determined.

Judging by the diagram, at a distance of zero cm (so pressed up against the ear) the diameter of the beam is about 10 cm. So, maybe a little big, but maybe not really to ensure hitting the cochlea.

At zero cm, it delivers 200 mW / square cm. The beam angle is pretty narrow so will not be diffusing too much.

https://redlightman.com/product/infrared-mini-830/

Red Light Man discusses dosage calculation here:

https://redlightman.com/blog/complete-guide-light-therapy-dosing/

Red Light Man seems to be kindred spirit @Cityjohn. He is selling high-powered, low-cost light therapy devices because he could not find such products on the market. From his website:

"Due to the massive amounts of scientific studies done on light therapy (LLLT, photobiomodulation, etc.), the company founder was curious to try it out for himself, but quickly noticed the inadequate availability of high powered light therapy devices on the market. Most products were far too weak to be effective in a reasonable time frame, not to mention over-priced.

After months of prototype product development, this site was built to provide the public with access to effective light therapy devices at a reasonable price."

Looks interesting. Also sold out.

 

[lymebite]

Looks interesting. Also sold out.

Some of Red Light Man's LLLT models show as sold out (such as the model that includes both 760 nm and 830 nm) but the model I linked to - the Infrared Mini 830 - seems to be available at the moment.

 

[Bobby B]

Does not say how many watts this thing puts out
Also - the size seems a bit too large for the ears no ?

 

[Leonardo Aguiar]

Professional Ear Laser for home use:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122246911414

 

[VRZ78]

Tinnitool... This thing is worthless,only 5mW

 

[lymebite]

Does not say how many watts this thing puts out
Also - the size seems a bit too large for the ears no ?

It says it puts out 200 mW / cm2.

I get confused on to measure this to get apples to apples.

On the IR flashlight, the reviews and Q&A on Amazon say the consumption using a regular alkaline battery is only 1.5 W to start (not 5 W) then drops quickly to about 0.7 W. With special batteries it apparently does higher wattage, up to the 5 W. Then we need to know the area of the beam circle in cm and divide the 0.7 W by that number to get the mW / cm2 apples to apples number.

So if the IR flashlight beam diameter is 2 cm, the area = pi (3.14) x radius2 (1). Which works out to about 3.14 cm2. Divide the 0.7 watts by the 3.14 cm2 area and you get about 1/5 W or 200 mW / cm2. Which is the same as the Red Light Man Device. With a fresh alkaline battery the IR flashlight would put out 400 mW / cm2 or double the Red Light Man device.

But with Red Light Man it has a coverage area more like we see in the photos of Wilden and Lumomed. Up against the ear, with no beam dispersion, it would be about 8 cm diameter - enough to hit the cochlea for sure.

I am not an engineer so this all may be way off. But with the math here it seems like the Red Light Man 830 nm device could be a good option?

 

[Bobby B]

This red light man is too under powered I would think - for LED where the light beam is more scattered than laser - Plus, I would be worried handling with such a large 8cm probe on my ear for light getting to the eyes...

We aren't using the light outside for hunting in woods for hours - we can get any power source in, or charged battery in our homes, if that's the issue to get it to the full 5 w.

Based on the reviews and the seller write up, you need those 3.7 v 14500 Rechargeable Li-on battery to get to the full 5w.
Those batteries cost about 5-10 dollars a piece.
based on your maths 5w is more than 5 times more power than the "red-light-man" product, and still very low in price, since you would need batteries anyway, and ease of use as the lamp is a tiny probe which fits well the center of the ear.

I just orderd a 14500 Rechargeable battery, will let you guys know how it feels on the 3.7v power source.

using the 1.5v battery it sure did not feel like 5w , 0.7w is about right.

 

[lymebite]

I tried it on my ear and yes it does not feel like 5 w in terms of heat. Is this a voltage issue ?

Here is one Q&A from Amazon, says the IR flashlight draws more like 0.5 W rather than 5 W. The Red Light Man for comparison draws 10 W. The Red Light Man spreads it to a bit bigger circle, but I think the resulting power per square cm may be higher. Where are our TTalk engineers?

Question:
Will it run on a 14500 battery?
Answer:
The short answer is no, the 3.7V 14500 battery will likely burn the LED. Use AA and keep in mind that the actual power drawn by the LED will be 0.5W.
Here is a longer version. The flashlight uses "5W 4-chip High Power 850nm Infrared LED" (google it) with 2A limit at 1.7V forward voltage.
There is no electronic circuit as far as I know that limits the current. So, with a fresh 1.5V Alkaline AA battery the LED draws 0.5A that results in about 0.5-0.7W power max.
When I put a half-charged 14500 battery in it (4.0V idle), the current draw was 2.5A - too much for long term operation for both LED a the battery. Not even mentioning overheating of the LED. see less
By Sergei Grichine on August 21, 2016

 

[Bobby B]

yes I saw that
14500 batteries are on the way

 

[lymebite]

the level of spikes I have been getting (they come and go) only happen when I use the flashlight.

@WildMan

Just a follow up question - are you saying the T changes happen only during the 10 minutes or so you actually have the flashlight shining in your ear? And when you switch it off those changes stop? Or are you saying since you started using it you have been experiencing differences throughout the days / weeks, not just during the 10 minutes?

Thanks!

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Here is one Q&A from Amazon, says the IR flashlight draws more like 0.5 W rather than 5 W. The Red Light Man for comparison draws 10 W. The Red Light Man spreads it to a bit bigger circle, but I think the resulting power per square cm may be higher. Where are our TTalk engineers?

Question:
Will it run on a 14500 battery?
Answer:
The short answer is no, the 3.7V 14500 battery will likely burn the LED. Use AA and keep in mind that the actual power drawn by the LED will be 0.5W.
Here is a longer version. The flashlight uses "5W 4-chip High Power 850nm Infrared LED" (google it) with 2A limit at 1.7V forward voltage.
There is no electronic circuit as far as I know that limits the current. So, with a fresh 1.5V Alkaline AA battery the LED draws 0.5A that results in about 0.5-0.7W power max.
When I put a half-charged 14500 battery in it (4.0V idle), the current draw was 2.5A - too much for long term operation for both LED a the battery. Not even mentioning overheating of the LED. see less
By Sergei Grichine on August 21, 2016

I actually agree that the Red Light Man product seems to be better than the lamp. Yes, the lamp is cheaper - but not to any degree that it actually matters. Nobody is retiring on the difference in cost here. I'm super skeptical the LT does anything at all but reasonably if the "science" is to be trusted it seems the Light Man is using a researched wavelength instead of whats readily available and provides a broader range of wavelengths.

 

[lymebite]

I'm super skeptical the LT does anything at all.

What I think is worth commenting about this thread - remember the part of the title "LLLT under 100" - is that with the Red Light Man for $89 and the IR flashlight for $12 we finally have got options people can try without shelling out $3,500 for a Wilden or Lumomed model, and without having to order parts and build your own.

For $12 or $89 trying LLLT now can be as affordable as rolling the dice on the latest supplement-of-the-week. And is just as easy. Order online with a credit card.

So it may not work, but we may see a larger number of reports from people on their experience than before. So we may be able to find out more. Since we have some important barriers removed:

COST - most anyone can afford these

USER FRIENDLY - these are easy to buy and easy to use, no assembly required

BIG ENOUGH LIGHT BEAM TO HIT COCHLEA - even for $3,500 the home devices from Wilden and Lumomed have a narrow beam which may not angle correctly to hit the cochlea

EYE SAFE - my understanding is LED LLLT devices do not require the same caution as LASER LLLT devices

 

[Tom Cnyc]

EYE SAFE - my understanding is LED LLLT devices do not require the same caution as LASER LLLT devices

The red light site claims its safe, potentially even therapeutic for use on the eyes.

 

[lymebite]

The red light site claims its safe, potentially even therapeutic for use on the eyes.

Haha, I saw that too. I am not sure I am ready to do LLLT eye therapy, but it is really nice to know it should be fully eye safe. When I am doing my LLLT therapy with the laser, I am very, very cautious about protecting my eyes and always worry about it quite a lot.

In fact, as I recall someone posted a while ago on TTalk that they had actually purchased a Lucky Laser but then got cold feet after it arrived and did not ever start using it due to eye safety concerns.

@Bobby B has brought us all into modern times by being on the cutting edge and sharing how LED is displacing LASER for LLLT medical treatment.

Another nice thing about the Red Light Man device and the IR flashlight is that you can easily use them for other ailments. Whereas the Wilden, Lumomed, and Lucky Laser are all pretty specifically designedly for inner ear therapy only. I have tried the Lucky Laser for a foot injury but it is extremely awkward, plus the eye safety concerns again.

 

[Bobby B]

I think to treat superficial and large areas of the skin , this red-light-man product is good

But it's still very underpowered perhaps those are the safety requirement to be sold as human body healing devices .

The cochlea and auditory nerves are buried deep into a very thick part of the skull so the ball park power scale required to treats TBI applies to the inner ear - you would need a few watts at least so if we can get those 5w by using a better battery type this is the way to go .

 

[lymebite]

you would need a few watts at least

But the Red Light Man device is 10 watts, yes? So reasonably powerful? I do wonder if it will reach the cochlea even so.

At 10 watts, twice as powerful as the IR flashlight even at the max 5 watts with the special batteries. The Red Light Man circle of light is a little larger, so it needs my math from my earlier post to figure it out apples to apples, and I don't know the circle size of the IR flashlight, but I think the Red Light Man is likely to be more powerful per square cm except perhaps if the IR flashlight has the special batteries and can draw the full 5 watts instead do the 0.5 watt with an alkaline battery.

In any event, looking forward to people hopefully having some good results with these sub-$100 LLLT devices.

 

[Bobby B]

Power consumption of the device is 10 w
Usually the light power is a fraction of that depending on LED effectiveness

200mw/c2 as a result

 

[Blue28]

Hi everyone,
I've been reading with interest all the posts about LLLT and was wondering if anyone has had any success? I had a noise trauma 10 months ago and have high frequency hearing loss, hyperacusis and loud tinnitus. I have ear pain and a feeling of fullness still (not ETD). I'm desperate to find something that may help. I'm going out of my mind. I'd be grateful for any recommendations, thanks

 

[Bobby B]

@Blue28
Definitely worth a try for H , and maybe a bit of sound quality improvements perhaps

Not a T cure unless it's done very early on maybe - first weeks or so after trauma

Get that 5w lamp with the 3.7v batteries and your all set with high power LT for under 30 dollars

 

[WildMan]

@WildMan

Just a follow up question - are you saying the T changes happen only during the 10 minutes or so you actually have the flashlight shining in your ear? And when you switch it off those changes stop? Or are you saying since you started using it you have been experiencing differences throughout the days / weeks, not just during the 10 minutes?

Thanks!

After I'm done using it, I'm almost guaranteed to have a spike in volume (buzzing) for the rest of the day. Since I have stopped, my T hasn't been spiking. I'm going to start again today.

 

[Blue28]

@Bobby B
Thanks for the advice. Do you have a link to the 5w lamp and batteries? Is it on Amazon? I see an IR torch on Amazon.co.uk, is it this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Torch-Infrared-Light-Vision-Flashlight/dp/B016ZPH470

 

[Bobby B]

The links are in this thread or the other LLLT thread

Search for ilauke 850nm

 

[SilverSpiral]

The links are in this thread or the other LLLT thread

Search for ilauke 850nm

Did you see limebytes post saying the special batteries that would get it up to 5w would not work, or would be unwise to use? Why do you think they advertise 5w?

 

[lymebite]

Did you see limebytes post saying the special batteries that would get it up to 5w would not work, or would be unwise to use? Why do you think they advertise 5w?

I did a bit of research and the LED chipset in the IR flashlight is a standard 5 watt array that can be purchased easily from many sources. The review from Amazon pasted below seems to explain it more - with the right power supply (maybe regular household electric service rather than batteries) it does pull 5 watts.

But even if it is not pulling the full 5 watts, it still is a 850 nm wavelength beam, which is the most critical factor. You can deliver more dosage at lower power by using it longer. @WildMan seems to be getting a response with only about 10 minutes per ear twice a week, and I am guessing he is using just a regular AA battery. So that 10 minutes could be increased to 15 or 20 if someone wanted, and the LLLT dosage would be doubled.

Amazon review
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DDU0ILY/

3.0 out of 5 stars - only 1.5W with an Alkaline AA, need over 2.5v!
By Amazon Beeker on November 7, 2016
Verified Purchase
While the case is a nice feel and the circuit does use feedback circuitry, this unit does not run at 5W with a AA battery. Testing the input power vs voltage, this flashlight runs at about 1.5W at a full 1.5v, but quickly drops to about 0.7W at 1.2v. The product description says a AA battery is used, but unless that's a mistake, this lamp is not the advertised 5W. (I did a bit more testing with a lab supply, at around 2.5v it was pulling 5W and was a lot brighter, so I'm assuming you need a higher voltage battery for it to run full power" though I don't have the power at the 3-4.2v the 14500 runs at.