DIY Low-Level Laser Therapy for Tinnitus on a Budget — LLLT Under 100,-

[SilverSpiral]

@lymebite I do 15 mins, and I don't notice anything (no spikes), I'm not sure I'm getting to the inner ear, though I spoke with wildman, and it sounds like we are using the same method more or less. I have narrow ear canals though, it's hard to put it against my ear canal without closing it up, I wonder if it's better to hold it a bit away from the canal?

 

[Bobby B]

Just get those 3.7v batteries and you will get close to the 5w - no big issue here no ?
I ordered mine online for 6 dollars a piece I already have the 7 dollars charger I bought for the bigger ones

All this stuff is very cheap compared to those lasers and its a lot safer to have around your head

The product listing recommends using those 14500 3.7v batteries

Or just hook up any 3.7v - 4.2v power supply to the lamp directly

 

[SilverSpiral]

I did a bit of research and the LED chipset in the IR flashlight is a standard 5 watt array that can be purchased easily from many sources. The review from Amazon pasted below seems to explain it more - with the right power supply (maybe regular household electric service rather than batteries) it does pull 5 watts.

But even if it is not pulling the full 5 watts, it still is a 830 nm wavelength beam, which is the most critical factor. You can deliver more dosage at lower power by using it longer. @WildMan seems to be getting a response with only about 10 minutes per ear twice a week, and I am guessing he is using just a regular AA battery. So that 10 minutes could be increased to 15 or 20 if someone wanted, and the LLLT dosage would be doubled.

Amazon review
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DDU0ILY/

3.0 out of 5 stars - only 1.5W with an Alkaline AA, need over 2.5v!
By Amazon Beeker on November 7, 2016
Verified Purchase
While the case is a nice feel and the circuit does use feedback circuitry, this unit does not run at 5W with a AA battery. Testing the input power vs voltage, this flashlight runs at about 1.5W at a full 1.5v, but quickly drops to about 0.7W at 1.2v.
The product description says a AA battery is used, but unless that's a mistake, this lamp is not the advertised 5W.
(I did a bit more testing with a lab supply, at around 2.5v it was pulling 5W and was a lot brighter, so I'm assuming you need a higher voltage battery for it to run full power" though I don't have the power at the 3-4.2v the 14500 runs at.

Here is one Q&A from Amazon, says the IR flashlight draws more like 0.5 W rather than 5 W. The Red Light Man for comparison draws 10 W. The Red Light Man spreads it to a bit bigger circle, but I think the resulting power per square cm may be higher. Where are our TTalk engineers?

Question:
Will it run on a 14500 battery?
Answer:
The short answer is no, the 3.7V 14500 battery will likely burn the LED. Use AA and keep in mind that the actual power drawn by the LED will be 0.5W.
Here is a longer version. The flashlight uses "5W 4-chip High Power 850nm Infrared LED" (google it) with 2A limit at 1.7V forward voltage.
There is no electronic circuit as far as I know that limits the current. So, with a fresh 1.5V Alkaline AA battery the LED draws 0.5A that results in about 0.5-0.7W power max.
When I put a half-charged 14500 battery in it (4.0V idle), the current draw was 2.5A - too much for long term operation for both LED a the battery. Not even mentioning overheating of the LED. see less
By Sergei Grichine on August 21, 2016

What about this? ISn't this saying those special batteries will burn the LEDS?

 

[lymebite]

What about this? ISn't this saying those special batteries will burn the LEDS?

Yes, sounds that way. But that is just a person on Amazon saying that so who knows.

As @Bobby B said, these items are inexpensive, so worst case if something breaks it is only $12. And even then Amazon probably would let you return it anyway if it did not work as it should. And at least we can then share our experiences here on TTalk.

 

[SilverSpiral]

Yes, sounds that way. But that is just a person on Amazon saying that so who knows.

As @Bobby B said, these items are inexpensive, so worst case if something breaks it is only $12. And even then Amazon probably would let you return it anyway if it did not work as it should. And at least we can then share our experiences here on TTalk.

What about the user? We are dealing with our injured ears here? What would the burning LED do? and is there a risk of the battery doing something bad?

 

[lymebite]

What about the user? We are dealing with our injured ears here? What would the burning LED do? and is there a risk of the battery doing something bad?

I don't know. I have not tried the IR flashlight yet but if I do then I probably will stick with the standard AA alkaline battery unless the instructions say the special battery is okay or after @Bobby B finds it works well.

 

[Bobby B]

The product listing says 14500 batteries are strongly recommended so it should work

We aren't going to use this for hours and hours hunting in woods like the product is intended - burning led is not an issue for our 10 min every 3 days very low usage this will be perfectly fine

These reviews are based On using this light for a much harder usage cycle

No one is ever going to be reaching the 10 000 hours in their lifetime at this rate so who cares if this thing breaks after 1000 hours "only " get anther one it's only 11 dollars

Let's say we do 15 min per ear twice a week that's 1 hour per week 52 hours per year - in 20 years you reached 1000 hours !

 

[Bobby B]

 

[MrBonk]

Interesting. Turns out i've been using a 1.2V battery in my light. And it's listed differently from the Iluake as only accepting up to 1.5V and not 4.2V like the IK.

I had no idea about Lithium batteries either. That's neat. I'll buy one of those and the Iluake too.
Couldn't hurt to get more power over less time.

 

[Bobby B]

I bought a few of those other type same brand in 940nm lights as well

 

[Reinier]

I've been reading with interest all the posts about LLLT and was wondering if anyone has had any success?

I started LLLT using the Lucky-Laser almost 9 months ago.
I think it did not yet do anything for my NIHL and associated hyperacusis, tinnitus etc..

 

[Bobby B]

In pratice and if you read the web page of that other German therapist offering LLLT on the lumomed device, past the 3 months mark after trauma it's really unrealistic to expect major improvements

@Reinier you started LT 12 months after trauma that's well past the acute phase
I started 1 month after trauma and I think it did help for the first months.

But since those new lamps are so cheap and it's fairly safe without side effects, it's always worth a try now.
And if you are again subjected to a new trauma then you can start ASAP and regenerate your hair cells like in then study maybe ..

 

[Reinier]

you started LT 12 months after trauma that's well past the acute phase
I started 1 month after trauma and I think it did help for the first months.

You could very well be right.
On the other hand, I see (as just one example) dr Wilden stating that this therapeutic window is much, much longer.
Like we all know, so many different claims out there.

Despite these claims from different practitioners I never figured it would improve my hearing loss or tinnitus.
I will be happy with improved hyperacusis and because it doesn't seem to do any harm I will just continue the therapy.
I will never know if any improvement will be because of the LLLT.

 

[lymebite]

On the other hand, I see (as just one example) dr Wilden stating that this therapeutic window is much, much longer.

Another example, in the Michael Zazzio study on LLLT for hyperacusis, the length of time the 48 patients had been suffering from H ranged from 6 months to 20 years.

In any event, it would be encouraging to see more positive results here on TTalk. Right now seems like a lot of people with slow progress or no changes yet.

 

[lapidus]

past the 3 months mark after trauma it's really unrealistic to expect major improvements

you started LT 12 months after trauma that's well past the acute phase

According to Zazzio and Otoclinica's studies, there didn't seem to be any theraputic window regarding LLLT for H. Here's one chronic patient's testimony: http://hyperacusisresearch.org/low-level-laser-therapy/

 

[Bobby B]

These guys at those clinics make a living selling such treatments. They will not turn down potential paying patients, even if they know that the odds of getting better are very slim compared to someone in the acute phase.

It still may work but chances are very low. A bit like using steroids long after a trauma.

In the many independent , nerve healing studies we have, all the studies are basically coming to the same conclusion : that LT is not producing any results past a certain time frame, which is basically a short time for rats like a week or so.

Same goes for hair cell regeneration in inner ear damage.

So what does LT do to H that is so special ? maybe a temporary reduction in inflammation just like using steroids.

 

[Blue28]

Oh no the recent posts don't sound very encouraging. It's over 10 months now for me so not good. I'm sure I still have inflammation as my ears feel full all the time and I have pain deep in ear and side of face/jaw.

 

[bill 112]

I'm 11 months out since my severe worsening of H which worsened again in December, I still don't know what to make of this laser if anything.

My pain is chronic so it's always there and is exacerbated from every little noise thereafter meaning it's most likely completely screwed nerves, can LLLT even remotely work against something like that?

I have seen chronic based illness studies on LLLT but can't be sure if they're authentic or not. Most of these studies were either cheaply done or are extremely biased in either direction. It's impossible to know really.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

@Bobby B again I'm confused by your stance on LLLT.

You consistently claim that it doesn't help with T, that it's pointless past the acute phase.... while also continuing to do it past the acute phase and saying that its a 2-3 year treatment and that your T has become softer as a result.

 

[Bobby B]

I continue to do it I the hope it will help
But it hasn't cured my T

It made it a bit softer in the first few months
I don't notice much changes as of late but who knows - still worth doing it as it costs nothing and has no adverse effects

I also take Tebonin - expensive stuff, NAC and a hole buch of supps and vitamins

I think LT has great value to protect your hearing from everyday loud noises and future potential damage - as for fixing some old trauma it may be a long shot

 

[SilverSpiral]

I continue to do it I the hope it will help
But it hasn't cured my T

It made it a bit softer in the first few months
I don't notice much changes as of late but who knows - still worth doing it as it costs nothing and has no adverse effects

I also take Tebonin - expensive stuff, NAC and a hole buch of supps and vitamins

I think LT has great value to protect your hearing from everyday loud noises and future potential damage - as for fixing some old trauma it may be a long shot

Hopefully this isn't too off topic, but do you think, or have you ever seen any articles which reference that inner ear stuff causing T (noise induced) CAN slowly heal in the long term (perhaps too slow for scientists to recognize or measure) and that LLLT may aid in this? I think we all have seen the odd post or reference to someone who had T for years, and then it does go away after years. For instance I have read someone say their husband had T for 20 years, and woke up one day and it was gone. Also Razah was recently talking about a sound engineer that said his T went away after wearing earplugs for 3 years. I always wonder if this is a physical recovery, or if it's actually sometimes caused by further degrading of the damaged haircells/synapses causing the T, but the further and complete degrading of this part causes it to stop sending faulty signals through the auditory system. Of course people could theorize the brain somehow tunes it out eventually too (plasticity)?

 

[Bobby B]

The brain can turn it off after all these years
In fact most people with hearing loss have no T - based on the TED talk of this German professor in the US.

I doubt they woke up with better hearing

 

[SilverSpiral]

The brain can turn it off after all these years
In fact most people with hearing loss have no T - based on the TED talk of this German professor in the US.

I doubt they woke up with better hearing

Well LLLT isn't going to cause our brain to turn it off, so obviously we are still hoping for some form of physical improvement. It seems it may "reduce inflammation" which is why it tends to help with H more than T. H is more associated with lingering inflammation of the middle ear I guess...

Sometimes it seems like the most viable method of treating T for the majority of us would be developing time travel technology and going back in time before our T.

 

[Blue28]

Hi, I've just ordered an IR 850nm Torch and the 14500 battery. It says that the light can't be seen by the naked eye, so how do I know if it's working? I should receive this is the next few days and would be grateful for any pointers on how to use it. Anything i should or shouldn't do? I'm hoping to at least improve my hyperacusis. My tinnitus and hyperacusis is high pitched. Thank you

 

[lymebite]

I've just ordered an IR 850nm Torch and the 14500 battery. It says that the light can't be seen by the naked eye, so how do I know if it's working?

@Blue28

The Amazon description says that the LEDs light up red when you switch it on, so that should tell you it is working. I suppose if you have a friend in the military with a night vision scope you could borrow it to see the beam. But you should be able to see the LEDs light up without that.

"The 4 LED chip from this flashlight turns red by naked eyes when the light on, however the light beam need to be detected by night vision scopes or non-IR filter cameras."

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DDU0ILY/

Good luck! Keep us posted how it goes!

 

[Bobby B]

You can see the beam in a very dark place
It's very faint but visible
Someone even posted a few pics of it here

 

[Blue28]

Hi, I've just ordered an IR 850nm Torch and the 14500 battery. It says that the light can't be seen by the naked eye, so how do I know if it's working? I should receive this is the next few days and would be grateful for any pointers on how to use it. Anything i should or shouldn't do? I'm hoping to at least improve my hyperacusis. My tinnitus and hyperacusis is high pitched. Thank you

Will I feel heat from the torch? How far from the ear should I hold it and how long for? Continuous? Sorry for all the questions, just wondering. Anyone had and improvement with this method?

 

[SilverSpiral]

Hi, I've just ordered an IR 850nm Torch and the 14500 battery. It says that the light can't be seen by the naked eye, so how do I know if it's working? I should receive this is the next few days and would be grateful for any pointers on how to use it. Anything i should or shouldn't do? I'm hoping to at least improve my hyperacusis. My tinnitus and hyperacusis is high pitched. Thank you

Not sure what you mean by "your hyperacusis is high pitched" pitch isn't usually used to describe H (unless you mean your ears are more sensitive to high pitch sounds I guess).

Any devices you have which have a camera will likely be able to detect IR, some phone models have a filter which filters out ir (to reduce glare), but even with them, usually the camera pointing outward has an ir filter, but the camera on the screen side of the phone doesnt, so you can use that one. My laptop and phone screen camera both show the IR.

Also if you have a very dark area, and you shine the light closely on the surface of something, it will glow red lightly. The LEDs do glow visibly red, but it may be dangerous to look at them with your naked eye so don't do that. But this is what they look like with naked eye.

Also the button which turns the light on, has a very slightly different feel when it is off versus on. When it is off, the button is slightly depressed so the rubber over it has some "give", when you click it on, the button mechanism is released, so the rubber over the button is now tighter, but this is a very subtle difference. However after using it frequently enough, I've been able to reliably feel the difference between off and on.

What I do, is click it on, and use it on one ear, usually I can notice some heat, if you have the special battery you may notice a lot more heat. I'm just using AA. Then I do the other ear without turning it off or on again, just switch ears. Then when I'm finished both ears I click it off, and take a quick glance at the lens to ensure that the LEDs are off. If I ever got it reversed I'd see that the LEDs are actually on when I thought I clicked it off, and know that I was using it while it was off, and start over. This hasn't happened yet. So since I know the LEDs are off, I can assume next time I use it, a single click would turn them on again. In addition to this as I mentioned I can sense if the button is slightly depressed or expressed, which also assures me that it has turned on/off. This is why I feel safe taking a quick glance to check that they did in fact turn off.

By the way, I have not found any results/spikes with it, though wildman did mention he gets spikes after using it. I just use it cause it's cheap and I'm desperate. This is not medical advice and I'm not a doctor by the way. Use at your own risk, I'm taking Bobby B's word for it, I honestly have no way of knowing if IR really is effective like laser or regular LED, and we don't even know if those are really very effective either.

Best of luck.

 

[SilverSpiral]

You can see the beam in a very dark place
It's very faint but visible
Someone even posted a few pics of it here

If you mean these photos

More pictures of the light.
View attachment 12182
^With the lens hood extended

View attachment 12183
Normal

The beam is blue because the IR is being detected by the camera. It does not look like that to the eye I am pretty sure... This is how mine looks on camera blue/purple, but invisible to naked eye.

 

[Bobby B]

You won't see the beam staring at the lamp but if you shine it close to a surface in a totally dark room you will see a faint red beam and that was using the regular batteries not the 3.7v