DIY Low-Level Laser Therapy for Tinnitus on a Budget — LLLT Under 100,-

[summ]

What torch/lamp are you using? Did you use the ilauke with AA battery? How did your eyes get affected? How did you use it? How often/how long, and did you hold it against your ear, or shine it from a distance? How did your eyes get affected?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Torch-Infrared-Light-Vision-Flashlight/dp/B016ZPH470 with 1.5V battery and
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Health-P...Sanitas-SIL-06-Infrarot-lamp-white/B000NNLXDW with 100W Phillips IR light bulb.

Used to do 5 days 7 mins for each ear month ago. I used torch directly in ear, maybe slight angle to back.
Now I did 5 min. And used lamp half a meter away for one ear 5 min.

As for eyes, I have glares around light sources in nighttime. I've even had ghosting too a month back. I've had both after LASIK and it slowly went away and I'm sure it will get better in few months. But I have no doubt now that these IR sources do something.

 

[SilverSpiral]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Torch-Infrared-Light-Vision-Flashlight/dp/B016ZPH470 with 1.5V battery and
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Health-P...Sanitas-SIL-06-Infrarot-lamp-white/B000NNLXDW with 100W Phillips IR light bulb.

Used to do 5 days 7 mins for each ear month ago. I used torch directly in ear, maybe slight angle to back.
Now I did 5 min. And used lamp half a meter away for one ear 5 min.

As for eyes, I have glares around light sources in nighttime. I've even had ghosting too a month back. I've had both after LASIK and it slowly went away and I'm sure it will get better in few months. But I have no doubt now that these IR sources do something.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Health-P...nfrarot-lamp-white/B000NNLXDW?tag=tinntalk-21

Do you think it's this device that effected your eyes? i never saw it before. or do you think the torch did something? Isn't the torch quite low powered, and if you have the lens against your ear, you think any ir light could reach the eye still?

 

[summ]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Health-P...nfrarot-lamp-white/B000NNLXDW?tag=tinntalk-21

Do you think it's this device that effected your eyes? i never saw it before. or do you think the torch did something? Isn't the torch quite low powered, and if you have the lens against your ear, you think any ir light could reach the eye still?

They both did. It isn't about the device, it's about the 100W IR bulb.
That's why I was asking month ago about wide and narrow beam mode on IR torch.
And I know this did it. The difference is big and it's instantaneous.
I don't know if it hit the eye or some nerve, I'm just reporting that it definitely did something to me and it's negative.

 

[SilverSpiral]

They both did. It isn't about the device, it's about the 100W IR bulb.
That's why I was asking month ago about wide and narrow beam mode on IR torch.
And I know this did it. The difference is big and it's instantaneous.
I don't know if it hit the eye or some nerve, I'm just reporting that it definitely did something to me and it's negative.

The torch is not 100W. From what @Bobby B says it sounds like it's probably under 1W on regular AA battery. I wonder what is going on here? Some say the torch is too weak to do anything, others have severe effects? this is sad and scary to read honestly, sorry to hear this.

 

[Blue28]

I have to agree with @summ, I think the IR torch does something for sure, and for me I don't think it's positive. I stopped using the 3W torch after 5 sessions of 5-7 mins per ear. I'd be interested to know if LED has similar effects to laser, I'm not sure it does where the inner ear is concerned.

 

[Bobby B]

@summ
You wrote that the doc said you have menieres or tmd so yes your t will fluctuate that's how menieres works but this isn't related to shining some light in fact LT isn't going to be of any help in your case.

And how can you get eye glare unless you stare into the lamp ? Was this your test ? Don't look into it you can damage your retina

 

[summ]

@Bobby B
Doctors said my ears are clear and gave me pills, that are used to treat Meniere's. I've also had acoustic trauma during treatment, which made my T worse. Also part of my T is connected to back and neck problems. I've confirmed this with physiotherapy.

And my T definitely changed after LT, maybe even for better. I don't know.

Of course I wasn't looking into the lamp. And I was waiting month for my eyes heal. And I wasn't drinking any herbal teas this time around. You don't have to believe me. Just if you feel it's affecting your eyes then stop.

 

[SilverSpiral]

@Bobby B
Doctors said my ears are clear and gave me pills, that are used to treat Meniere's. I've also had acoustic trauma during treatment, which made my T worse. Also part of my T is connected to back and neck problems. I've confirmed this with physiotherapy.

And my T definitely changed after LT, maybe even for better. I don't know.

Of course I wasn't looking into the lamp. And I was waiting month for my eyes heal. And I wasn't drinking any herbal teas this time around. You don't have to believe me. Just if you feel it's affecting your eyes then stop.

did you use a blindfold or anything? did you have your eyes open? what's the deal with the redlightman device claiming it's safe for eyes, it seems far more powerful than the ilauke on an AA?

 

[Coleoptere]

Well what can we learn from @summ? I must say that 100 watt is maybe too much regardless discussions above thinking differently. At the other hand this is a product from a manufacturer supposedly tested and safe.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

@summ
You wrote that the doc said you have menieres or tmd so yes your t will fluctuate that's how menieres works but this isn't related to shining some light in fact LT isn't going to be of any help in your case.

And how can you get eye glare unless you stare into the lamp ? Was this your test ? Don't look into it you can damage your retina

TMD is perhaps THE MOST likely to have positive results, considering its muscular inflammation causing much of the problem and muscular inflammation is one of the few things heavily studied for LT - whereas the cochlea is not.

 

[SilverSpiral]

Well what can we learn from @summ? I must say that 100 watt is maybe too much regardless discussions above thinking differently. At the other hand this is a product from a manufacturer supposedly tested and safe.

What is 100W though? The small handheld torch he is using is certainly not 100W, according to what @Bobby B and others have speculated about the Ilauke 3W, and other similar torches, with a 1.5W battery, they are likely outputting well under 1W of optical power (according to what i've seen discussed here), which as I have heard is likely way too low for inner/middle ear LLLT treatment... I even emailed Zazzio and wilden about such torches, and they both said it would be ineffective, but bobby mentioned they are not understanding what these IR torches are exactly... anyways I have no answers, just more questions, but I am contributing to your question.

 

[SilverSpiral]

TMD is perhaps THE MOST likely to have positive results, considering its muscular inflammation causing much of the problem and muscular inflammation is one of the few things heavily studied for LT - whereas the cochlea is not.

What do you mean by TMD? Temporal Mandibular Disorder? TMJ(D)? I agree these light therapies have much more efficacy proven to muscular/flesh problems, so TMJ should be more directly treatable with LLLT versus middle/inner ear pathology. Hope we get more info on this treatment in general, and specifically these self medicating LLLT therapies for inner/middle ear pathology.

 

[Bobby B]

TMD is perhaps THE MOST likely to have positive results, considering its muscular inflammation causing much of the problem and muscular inflammation is one of the few things heavily studied for LT - whereas the cochlea is not.

Fair enough but that would not be inner ear LT as done in this thread - these muscles aren't inside the ear, you probably need a much larger lamp like the one sold at red lighter man to cover fascial and neck muscles outside the ear area, provided muscles inflammation is the underlying issue

 

[summ]

According to local chiropractor I have inflammation of trigeminal nerve. (and inflammation of several places on neck and back and misaligned jaw) So maybe that's why I've been reacting to LT this way.

 

[SilverSpiral]

So is anybody still doing diy lllt? Did anybody ever find a device that they felt may have efficacy comparable to the clinics for under 100 dollars? This thread sure died out, I guess nobody found a device that works?

 

[linearb]

Fair enough but that would not be inner ear LT as done in this thread - these muscles aren't inside the ear, you probably need a much larger lamp like the one sold at red lighter man to cover fascial and neck muscles outside the ear area, provided muscles inflammation is the underlying issue

I've been using Redman on my TMJs. Too soon to say much about it though.

TMD is obnoxious...

 

[Bobby B]

For under 100usd the best would be to buy a 20w 830 or 850nm led and the right power supply and that's it

As we learned 20w of power consumption gives about 2-3 w of optical power which is good for LED

I ordered the larger red light man lamp which is about 200 usd

 

[Starman9]

Here's a light that may be of interest. Cheap as chips and powerful!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...iveASIN=B00M3NHCC6&linkCode=as2&tag=refm08-21

The light has a sensor that only allows it to switch on in a dark environment. But this could presumably be worked around by covering the sensor!

According to the following link, this particular light produces 200mw/cm2 at about 13cm distance:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...iveASIN=B00M3NHCC6&linkCode=as2&tag=refm08-21

 

[MrBonk]

TMD is perhaps THE MOST likely to have positive results, considering its muscular inflammation causing much of the problem and muscular inflammation is one of the few things heavily studied for LT - whereas the cochlea is not.

I started shining my light on my left TMJ out of cruiosity a week or two ago after I had a really bad bout of PET when doing cardio. (It was horrible. I had to stop exercising it was so bad. Every breath was being redirected instantly into my left middle ear). Since then I have had some interesting fluctuations where I can get my ears to sound almost normal again.

Normally since this has all started, I could hum. And everything sounds as if things are transmitting and resonating primarily in the left side of my head. (Much louder than the right side. Even though I have essentially zero low frequency hearing loss in my right side. Maybe a few dB. Nothing severe)Once in a blue moon, things would sound normal ish. But not often.

After this and after I started shining the light on my left TMJ. I have been having a lot of days where the sound almost sounds perfectly even between both sides now. Though it fluctuates a lot at any given moment, and it seems if/when I can pop my left ear/jaw and it will change maybe. Or not. And when it's near perfect, the really bad asymmetry I felt I had in hearing almost seems to go away with it, like 80%.
(I don't know if shining the light in my right ear 3x15mins a week is changing anything either. As I don't have flat enough headphones to do accurate manual audiograms with. The only frequency I can consistently get a SNL with, is at 12.5Khz in my right ear. I've been thinking of going back and paying cash for another Audiogram with additional tests at specific frequencies as well, since I lost my insurance.)

I dont' know if this is coincidental or not.


As for the eyes, I haven't had any flashes. But somedays, when I find the big sweet spot for shining the light in my ear. If it sits there long enough. I start to get a bit light headed/(dizzy?) and in the process my vision is affected like with normal light headedness.

I wondered if this was due to something like the Endolymph Fluid getting heated up or something.

I've been considering buying this light as linked earlier
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004F9LF7E/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A4AJWF423TD0Q
Just to try a stronger light on my left TMJ maybe and experiment with shining it on other stuff. Maybe the ears, though I wonder if it's too powerful.

Here's the manufacturer page http://www.cmvision.co/products/cmvision-cm-ir130-198-leds-300-400ft-long-range-ir-illuminator.html

 

[Tom Cnyc]

So is anyone using red light man?

 

[Bobby B]

I received the one I ordered
Fast shipping

The model which is a red metal square box with a conical lens on top

Looks like I wasted 200$ because this thing is huge and heavy with a lense the size of a tennis ball but the worst part is that it has a rather loud cooling fan inside so not great to stick this right to the ear

Good for back pain and such though perhaps

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I received the one I ordered
Fast shipping

The model which is a red metal square box with a conical lens on top

Looks like I wasted 200$ because this thing is huge and heavy with a lense the size of a tennis ball but the worst part is that it has a rather loud cooling fan inside so not great to stick this right to the ear

Good for back pain and such though perhaps

Pic

 

[lymebite]

So is anybody still doing diy lllt? Did anybody ever find a device that they felt may have efficacy comparable to the clinics for under 100 dollars? This thread sure died out, I guess nobody found a device that works?

I am still optimistic that my Red Light Man device may help, as I posted earlier. But it will take time - many months before I expect to see if it will produce results.

My device is a $100 model called the "Infrared Light Device Mini." Completely silent, no fans. Details at this link.

https://redlightman.com/product/infrared-light-device-mini/

I have been noticing improvements but at this point I would not give the LLLT credit, it could be random variation. If those improvements stick and get better over time, then I may start to give credit to the LLLT. But not yet.

 

[Jim51042]

I have been noticing improvements but at this point

Sorry how many days per week and many minutes per ear have you been applying the light?

 

[lymebite]

Sorry how many days per week and many minutes per ear have you been applying the light?

I am doing 5 minutes per ear (at zero cm distance, pressed right up to the ear) every other day.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I am doing 5 minutes per ear (at zero cm distance, pressed right up to the ear) every other day.

Where did you determine the protocol? It seems that the clinics do daily, high dosages for two weeks.

 

[lymebite]

Where did you determine the protocol? It seems that the clinics do daily, high dosages for two weeks.

My sense of what the clinics do is often different than what you reference. Some may have the approach you mention, but others do not.

Lumomed in Hamburg, Germany (Robert Kroll is the clinician there) treats twice a week for chronic tinnitus (I am chronic). Google-translated excerpt (a bit of a rough translation but you will get the idea) from his site (the first link) is cut and pasted.

http://www.robert-kroll.com/lasertherapie
http://lumomed.com/hamburg/

"An acute tinnitus (up to 3 months) is very treatable with high doses of laser light. Basically, the acute the stage, the more often can be treated. Maybe even every day for 2 weeks, so there are a total of 10 sessions. Even if the ears should still exist, is inserted definitely a break. In the further process of non-treatment of laser works by and there will be improvements. In very light disturbances, it may be that the tinnitus is gone after just a few sessions.

A chronic tinnitus (from 3 months to years) is usually treated by me less often. It is advisable to 2x / week. After 10 sessions a break is first to insert here. After about two months, then continues with 5 sessions, then a break."

Michael Zazzio in Sweden takes a similar approach to Lumomed in Hamburg, two or three times a week:

http://www.alir.nu/treat.html

"When treating hearing and balance disorders, a complete treatment period normally lasts for 8-10 continuous weeks with 2-3 treatment sessions per week, in total 20-25 treatment sessions. For patients suffering from sudden deafness there is at least 12 treatment sessions during the first 12-31 days and thereafter there could be an additional 12 treatment sessions during four weeks."

So, I would say that I am following a version of the protocol used by Lumomed Hamburg and Michael Zazzio.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I wish I had a better understanding of "why" instead of "what" is all I guess.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Any updates?

 

[Tom Cnyc]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01MPXVSU5?psc=1

@Bobby B

Prob most powerful to date?