DIY Low-Level Laser Therapy for Tinnitus on a Budget — LLLT Under 100,-

[Jan64]

Wilden uses a 20w pulsed laser not continuous

Your maths would be correct if the cells you are trying to irradiate are lying on a table - unfortunately the cochlea is cast deep in the thickest bone of the skull

Read these studies on the issues of using mw range light sources on the head

http://www.laserfocusworld.com/arti...ates-skull-to-aid-traumatic-brain-injury.html

Can you give me some evidence that dr. Wilden treats with 20 W? It is right that the power at the tip is maybe 70%. The beam has to travel throught skin, blood, fat, bones... Likely to be 2.5 cm. So the energy delivered is much lower... Mayby someone can calcultate what percentage is left after traveling though 2.5 cm body material...

 

[Bobby B]

They already did in those studies linked in that page

 

[Jan64]

They already did in those studies linked in that page

Oké, I did not read it properly...: (2) high-power infrared light achieved at least 3 cm penetration into the brain--this included wavelengths of 980 and 808 nm with 9-13 W average power.
Maybe we can also treat the auditory cortex? Does anyone have experience with that?

 

[Noise_sucks]

(2) high-power infrared light achieved at least 3 cm penetration into the brain--this included wavelengths of 980 and 808 nm with 9-13 W average power.
Maybe we can also treat the auditory cortex? Does anyone have experience with that?

Question is, where to get such a device? I haven't seen anything with such amount of power

 

[Jan64]

Question is, where to get such a device? I haven't seen anything with such amount of power

This one might (!) give some benefit https://redlightman.com/product/infrared-light-device/

In the information on their website:

Application times
With this light roughly 10cm away from the body, the following application times give an ideal light therapy dose (1-6J/cm²) in that area:

• Skin – 20 seconds
• Hair – 30 seconds
• Fat – 160 seconds
• Thyroid – 250 seconds
• Muscles – 260 seconds
• Brain – 300 seconds

Application times are just a guide based on average penetration values. Actual light penetration varies from person to person, and on different areas of the body. Darker skin lets less light through, so requires longer application times. Thicker skinned areas of the body (such as soles of feet), places with excess fat tissue and places with more hair, also increase the application time required.

The further away that the light is used, the longer it will need to be applied. For example using 35cm away increases the application time for skin to 150 seconds.

 

[Bobby B]

The redlight man is actually not that powerful I bought one , total waste of money it projects a very large beam so power is spread in a very wide area not useful for ears at all and uses a noisy fan inside.

Like I wrote in the beginning - if you want 20w you can buy a LED in that power or even more . One guy on these forums made one a while ago and posted pictures here do a search for

pumkinate

it's safe and coherent light in the wavelengths you want

Hamblin says that the useful wavelengths are between 800nm and 1200nm so anything in that range will be fine

 

[Bobby B]

https://m.ebay.com/itm/3W-10W-20W-5...hash=item212a9ff43e:m:m1h6xDQ6jdCWLZx3Z_KXb9A

This is one example but it's cheap and super powerful
roughly the optical power to electric draw is 10 to 15% for these type of LED so a 20w rated light source will give you about 2w to 3w of optical power which is already quite enough , more than that you and will feel too much heat
You need a power source in the right voltage, a heat sink (pc parts) and that's it total cost well under 100 like the original thread says

 

[Noise_sucks]

The redlight man is actually not that powerful I bought one , total waste of money it projects a very large beam so power is spread in a very wide area not useful for ears at all and uses a noisy fan inside.

You are talking about the Infrared device (left) with 760nm and 830nm? This looks like its made to cast a kinda wide beam, since the bulb is relatively small. There is a new device actually, the Infrared 830. It has a big bulb to cast a more "focussed" beam and is 100% 830nm for deep penetration (on the right)

 

[Bobby B]

Yes I have this big red box - the noisy fan alone makes it useless if put close to the ear

Does the other one has a fan ?

 

[Noise_sucks]

It does. But a "quiet" one and he says it's not a problem to use it touching the ear

 

[Bobby B]

I'm sure the guy selling it says it's very quiet but any fan at 1cm of the ear is going to sound loud and also carry vibrations into the ear you really don't want or don't need that at all

Have a look at how pumkinate made his device - he uses a heat sink for pc - this setup is totally silent and cheap. Since we don't use our LED for hours but maybe 5 or 10 min at a time cooling is not a big deal

 

[Noise_sucks]

I am also a bit skeptical. I wonder if power density of 1500 mW/cm2 is sufficient to penetrate deep enough into the skull to reach the inner ear. What do you think?

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Yes I have this big red box - the noisy fan alone makes it useless if put close to the ear

Does the other one has a fan ?

The lamp has no fan.

 

[Noise_sucks]

I asked him about it, his answer was:

You can use the big 830 device pressed to the skin/ear. It is not loud. Just a quiet fan.

 

[Bobby B]

These redlight products are targeted to surface skin and muscle treatments where you don't need so much power and a focused small beam will not work
He probably cannot put the more powerful LED inside and have someone burn himself and get sued for it so it will only be of limited power

For our application a more powerful light source is required simply because only 10% at best will make it past the thick bones in the skull as per study in the link above - plus it's cheaper to buy LED as parts. The goal is to only use it a few minutes per ear and once or twice a week max

In those threads someone was in contact with Wilden and got the info on his 20w pulsed laser So this goes to show that in the end if you want any effect you need to reach deep enough

 

[Noise_sucks]

I think so too.
My plan is to get a 10W or 20W IR emitter, put it on a heatsink and to wire it up (no pulsing), just a simple on/off switch. Currently looking for the right hardware and some kind of stand / mount or something to hold it safely.

 

[Coleoptere]

Hi all,

This year I regularly treated my ears with 5 watt LED's for an hour a day. Half an hour 808nm and half an hour 650nm. I use Gingko two times a day (for better blood flow to the ears) and folium acid (anti oxidant). I protect my ears at all cost. In the Summer I halted the LED treatment for around three months.

One week ago I had a new hearing test. So I was able to compare the result with a test done more than a year ago:

Aug-2016 Dec-2017 Delta

----R L R L R L
1K 25 40 25 35 0 -5
2K 45 45 45 40 0 -5
4K 50 55 40 45 -10 -10
8K 25 55 20 45 -5 -10

As you can see it suggests progress. I'm very sceptical about this as the tests were not taken at the same hospital. But at the other hand I noticed that I can hear better than a year ago and H. has dropped to acceptable levels. I will continue the treatment and hopefully it will improve further in 2018 as well as for those of you who also use LED/Laser LLLT.

 

[Noise_sucks]

This year I regularly treated my ears with 5 watt LED's for an hour a day. Half an hour 808nm and half an hour 650nm.

Can you give some details about your setup? DIY?

 

[Coleoptere]

Can you give some details about your setup? DIY?

DIY indeed, ordered LED's, power supplies from China. 28 Euro's,

 

[Bobby B]

@Coleoptere

good stuff.

better sound quality - feels like upgrading to better speakers, and less H are the first effect to notice if LT is working. T my improve but a lot later


What ginko biloba are you taking ? is it the Egb761

 

[Coleoptere]

@Bobby B : Thank you. And yes you are spot on: it is Egb761 120 Mg per capsule (which I take twice a day). I experience hearing improvements and less H and no change in T until. So again you are correct. I'm now considering to order 20 Watt LED's (808/650Nm) for 2018:. Have a happy new year!

 

[Bobby B]

@Coleoptere

Happy new year to you too

650 nm visible light is getting cut by skin/bones all the studies done on hair cells regeneration or traumatic brain injury used 810 nm I would not waste time on less than that for inner body penetration

If we experience better hearing and less H it's a proof that it's doing something especially in your case as you had damage for a long time we can rule out natural acute phase healing that would have happened without LT

I take egb761 but only once a day will try twice perhaps it's better

 

[Bobby B]

@Coleoptere
Could you please explain again how and when you got damage in the ear ?

I got it mostly by shooting large bore rifles and assault automatic rifles wearing ill fitted hearing protection - gunfire happens so fast my brain didn't realize how loud it was but the ears took a good shot so to say

And 30 years of loud clubbing and army service was behind that as well . I don't have sensitive ears I just overdid it

 

[Coleoptere]

Essentially the same story: NIHL. Because I have not been very careful with my ears the last 35 years. I used headphones for years and turned up the volume way too loud often.

Years ago a bells palsy paralysis triggered tinnitus. But now I'm convinced it was hearing loss what caused it.

Then came the earbuds with the Samsung handset with all the great yelling sopranos & Jazz trumpets. Too long, too loud.

 

[Jim51042]

I'm very sceptical about this as the tests were not taken at the same hospital

10 dB is a large enough change to probably override factors in a hospital change

 

[Senad]

Dear friend,
Dear Cityjohn

I have a long time tinnitus but I am writing you as I am appealing for help and with a situation that has
gone beyond my capacity to do this by myself .

I am currently in Germany where I am caring for a very good friend of mine
in gratitude for his assistance in treating my condition Some 20 years back
I had synovial sarcoma with unfavorable prognosis.

As a specialist Doctor in biochemistry, he helped me to treat my illness and
prevented the option of having to ampute my leg.
It's been 20 years since my illness and I'm still alive today.

Dr. Haas. is 75 years old today and in 2015 he suffered a brain impact.

Since October 2015 he can not speak anymore.

He can read and understands everything what we tell him and he can function
alone with little help and partly write with left hand.
I am taking care of him. I am however trying to seek a therapy for him so
that he can talk again.

I have found reports on regeneration of brain stem cells", "Stem Cell Treatment for Traumatic Brain Injury" with Dr Steenblock
and I found different posts about Low Leser device for treatment for Traumatic brain injury
Medical Lasers/Neuroscience: Photobiomodulation and the brain: Traumatic brain injury and beyond !

Unfortunately it will be realky challenging for me to travel with Dr Haas for treatment to California to Dr Steenblock due to his condition is impossible.
I will try to find and maybe is it possible to get a a low-level laser device for treatment for Traumatic brain injury here in forum.

I could read Low-level laser/light therapy (LLLT) is the very last treatment and its used to restore
of brain function after serious concussions, toxic mold exposure and multiple psychiatric prescriptions.

I am just looking at the extraordinarily high price of the Vielight 810 Infrared device ($499) and the Vielight 633 Red device ($299)
and wearable devices at the forefront of brain photobiomodulation Vielight Neuro Alpha ($1,749.00)

We already know that we can buy the red LEDs or infrared LEDs contained in these Vielight devices for less than $1 and 850nm Infrared Laser Diode than (US $5.9)!?

A cheap home-made unit for a few dollars should allow people to experiment with laser and light therapy without paying out $hundreds.
Do you think that is possible?

I would be so appreciative if you can help me find this Low-Level-Laser Devices " for treatment.
If you know someone who had Low Leser device for treatment for Traumatic brain
injury maybe can provide me this.
Maybe can someone sell me cheap a such device or someone with something technical can made me one...please let me know.

I am appealing to you compassion to urgently help me help my amazing friend
achieve a chance to restore some quality to his life.

I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience.

kind regards


Senad C.

 

[Jgp0926]

I went in for an MRI and did not have ear protection - came out with raging tinnitus - not sure if it was from noise or the Gadolinium contrast agent. But at this time I'm willing to try anything and have spent mega dollars with all types of doctors, supplements and appointments.

Would you be able to please detail exactly what to buy for light therapy and how to build a unit - 70 year old female here - not tech or any other kind of savvy. The tinnitus is driving me nuts - and also my family!!

Thanks in advance.

 

[noitseuq]

I can't find @pumkinate, I still don't have a clue of how to build up the LT to get it started. I know I gave to get a 850nm ir 20 w, then a heat sink and a power source. I have the link for the 850 nm 20 w, then which heat sink and power source I have to get. If anyone can help??? Please

 

[Starman9]

@Jgp0926 You can't go wrong with one of the RedLightMan 830nm lights. I've got this one: https://redlightman.com/product/infrared-830-device/

But possibly 'the mini' may be more convenient?

Don't go overboard with dose. Recently, when in a rather emotional state, I used my Infrared 830 device for some time pressed right against my ear, and experienced a significant setback after as a result. This stuff is powerful. Overall, LLLT seems to have helped me somewhat btw... but only when used at the right dose!

So I'd suggest keeping the light maybe 10 inches from the ear and start with a few minutes every other day. If that has no effect at all (and even a slight temporary increase in symptoms is counted as an effect) you can up the dose a little/bring the light a little nearer.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

for the last two weeks my more annoying tinnitus is mostly gone. I can hear it in the morning when I first wake up and generally the rest of the day its not noticeable. I have a very gentle tape hiss that Im totally habituated to. If it stays like this, I'm pretty much fine.

I use the combo light (it has no fan) pressed directly agaisnt my ear, and use all 4 wavelengths available.

I'm not sure if the light helps, or the fact that its been nearly two years and Im just kinda lucky. For 100 bucks its a risk I'm willing to take. Also, my lamp stopped workign at one point and they sent me a new one. Turned out to just be the power supply, so I have two bulbs. A1 customer service.

I also took a million supplements also and have been pretty careful with my ears. I do go to concerts sparingly though. I have no idea if it helped, just one mans incomplete story. I'll update again