DIY Low-Level Laser Therapy for Tinnitus on a Budget — LLLT Under 100,-

[Tom Cnyc]

Sun light can also engrave wood if you focus it. Don't focus it into a point. I've said it before, Lasers are serious business and you need to pay attention whenever using them. You can however focus the module into a thick parallel beam that will not heat up the skin, it will only feel slightly warm to the touch. The casing however does heat up to about 30-40 degrees. So if anyone wants to try lasers they can, make sure you buy a protective anti red light goggle to protect your eyes.

View attachment 11618

This is what I figured but wanted to be sure. If I am understanding you correctly, I can buy two of those units and protective glasses for roughly 70 bucks with shipping, mount them, and have something that will not burn a hole in my head and has similar chances of working to a konftec / luci / lucky.

I just need to not use this around reflective objects / people not wearing goggles....

 

[Cityjohn]

70 bucks

Something like that if you include heat sinks.

will not burn a hole

Yes, butt he first thing you should to is put on the safety glasses, turn on the lasers pointing them away toward a wall without any reflecting surfaces on it. And then unfocus the beam using a piece of paper in the beam path like I did to make sure it actually never reaches focus.

similar chances of working to a konftec / luci / lucky.

Actually I would say it has a better chance of working because you have a much larger power range you can experiment with. Closer to what Wilden would use.

How to mount and/or use;
The only thing you need to do is mount it to something so they shine perfectly into your ear. You could just mount them to a tripod or your bed and then lay on your bed for an hour every day like Dr. Wilden makes his patients do. Or you could drill a hole in some cheap headphones and stick these in with some hot glue which has my personal preference.

Other than batteries power source if you want;
You could buy a second hand stabilized DC power source for 50 bucks if you wanted to variably change the power levels because the battery box makes them go at 250mW. Or you could buy a variable resistor (volume button) and stick it in between the battery wires and the laser module.

I bought my power source for 40,- Euro's, this is what a good one looks like (whatever brand, they're all the same);

Laser diodes vs Laser modules;
Normal laser diodes require a special power source, these laser modules have that built in so you don't fry the diodes. This is also why they're battery powered. If you would power them with an unstabilized power source fluctuations from the power net in your house (when the fridge turns on or something) could damage regular diodes.

The diy laser bill of materials;

This is the list I would buy if I were you; the heat sinks allow you to better mount the modules.

2x http://www.banggood.com/Laser-Modul...ving-Machine-Parts-p-955966.html?rmmds=search

2x http://www.banggood.com/Black-Heat-Sink-Holder-Mount-for-12mm-laser-modules-p-1022994.html

1x http://www.banggood.com/532nm-Tinte...aser-Goggles-Green-p-981297.html?rmmds=search

 

[Tom Cnyc]

@Cityjohn

Hey - First... THANK YOU for taking the time to write something so clear. Looks like I can get the power supply rather simply via Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Yescom-Adjus...15&sr=8-6&keywords=stabilizer+dc+power+source

So if I understand this correctly -

I need to unfocus the laser module, and test it against a piece of paper to ensure a the light output is wide. The paper serves to test that the laser doesn't burn as well as check the visual.

After this is tested, I then turn the laser off, mount it in the heat sink, and connect it to the power supply above. With this, I can control the power with the knobs. Top power is 250, so a knob facing 12 o'clock would be 125mw, 9 0'clocl would be 62.5mw, etc.

If I use the power supply the batteries are not necessary.

Buying some cheap headphones to rig up a ear piece is a suggested simplification - although I'm not quite sure how I'd know if I was angling correctly - unless of course it's a broad enough beam once unfocused.

Of course, I need to wear glasses when I do this.

Am I missing anything?

Again, thanks for your time!!!

 

[Cityjohn]

Looks like I can get the power supply rather simply via Amazon:

Damn that's cheap, new it costs 120 Euro's here... do you guys have a direct line to china or something

After this is tested, I then turn the laser off, mount it in the heat sink, and connect it to the power supply above. With this, I can control the power with the knobs. Top power is 250, so a knob facing 12 o'clock would be 125mw, 9 0'clocl would be 62.5mw, etc.

Volts, Amps, and power stabilization;
Not quite. Any electrical device only has a voltage rating. The laser module has a DC voltage rating of 3-5V. If you give it 3 Volts it will eat a certain amount of amps. If you give it 5 volts it will eat more amps (if available). If you give it much over 5 Volts it will fry the device (Laser module). You can supply a device with infinite current since, if it does not have enough Volts there is nothing to take the current from. With a stabilized power source you can limit the amount of current for a given voltage which means you can do certain neat things that are otherwise impossible. The main purpose for a stabilized power source in our case is to straighten out any fluctuations from the net. It is denoted in the specs as "Ripples and Noises: CV≤10mV(RMS) / CC≤20mA(RMS)" which is enough.

In summary, Volts are like the trucks coming by per hour, and Amps are the load they carry. You can load a truck with infinite gold bars but if they don't come by there's nothing to rob. A 100W lightbulb takes 0.91 Amps from a 110 Volt net. But the net supplies infinite Amps, and when you put your finger which has a very high resistance it tries to take those infinite Amps. That's when a fuse pops in your fuse box, if it didn't you'd die or your finger would explode So that's why the ability to regulate Amps is nifty.

How to operate a Laser module with a power source;
If you want to power the laser module you turn both the course and fine knobs to their 0 setting, the current knobs to 0, connect the laser module. Then turn up the fine current half open and then turn the fine voltage to until you reach 3 Volts. When you hit 3 Volts the device should turn on and it will draw Amps. You can calculate the total power output of the laser by multiplying the Volts with the Amps (W = V * A , or mW = V * mA). This way there is more control over a treatment protocol.

Buying some cheap headphones to rig up a ear piece is a suggested simplification - although I'm not quite sure how I'd know if I was angling correctly - unless of course it's a broad enough beam once unfocused.

Angle of incidence into ear;
When carefully you stick a cotton swab in your ear slightly too deeply and it stays in, that's the angle the laser should shine into your ear. This follows the shape of your ear canal and reduces the proportion of the light has to reflect before until it hits your eardrum and scatters into the inner ear and cochlear windows.
The beam is around a half a square inch, you can just eyeball it.

Another reason to buy a bench power supply;
Since I've already tried LLLT and it only marginally helped my T, I will now try DC (Direct Current) stimulation. It has been effective in around 33% of cases, even severe cases. And I've always wanted to DC stimulate since it significantly raises your intelligence and focus level. This has been shown to be the case with college students and is now a cheating themed concern since the effects last throughout the day and it is not controllable. My grades could use a boost lately
Direct current stimulation would require electrodes, some wires, and a bench power supply. I will start a thread about that in the coming weeks and explore treatment protocols.

Again, thanks for your time!!!

You'r every welcome. I hope this has made things easier, and not harder.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

You'r every welcome. I hope this has made things easier, and not harder.

You lost me a bit, but I think I understand enough to at least be safe. Did you use these lasers or did you use LEDs instead?

 

[Cityjohn]

Did you use these lasers or did you use LEDs instead?

Both.

 

[Rog]

Both.

GREAT contribution!!! Could you please again give the links of what to buy??? THANK YOU

 

[lymebite]

@Cityjohn

What do you think of these lasers sold by "Energy Healer Steve"? The least expensive is $199 (Model LTP-150, 660 nm with 50 mw). I realize the parts cost about $10. But for someone uncomfortable with building from parts, are these rough equivalents?

http://energyhealersteve.com/the-laser-therapy-pen/?gclid=CNCUkJylp8oCFcEWHwodfVUEmQ

 

[Cityjohn]

@Cityjohn

What do you think of these lasers sold by "Energy Healer Steve"? The least expensive is $199 (Model LTP-150, 660 nm with 50 mw). I realize the parts cost about $10. But for someone uncomfortable with building from parts, are these rough equivalents?

http://energyhealersteve.com/the-laser-therapy-pen/?gclid=CNCUkJylp8oCFcEWHwodfVUEmQ

I think you're better off buying the lucky laser than this because the cross pattern isn't helpful to concentrate power into the ear.

You know what, since almost everyone is having problems with this... give me two days to think about designing and making a portable headset with two 250mW 650nm lasers for half their price. I think I can make a few, and it would be nice to track improvements in a calibrated way. I'm thinking of distributing ten or so and then also supplying a method to track improvement.

 

[Foncky]

I'd take it. I'm about to buy a Lucky Laser because I don't have time for DIY solutions.

 

[RUM]

I am also interested for a test with your laser and a precise method.

 

[VRZ78]

I'd be interested too. But wouldn't 250 mW be too much ?

 

[Cityjohn]

Update headgear prototype;

Since everyone needs it and I just can't take seeing people buy really expensive crap anymore I've started prototyping a device. I'm sorry it took longer than two days, I tried to do it during the week but eventually had to plan it for today.
I have picked all the parts and am just about to order. It will take two weeks for me to get my first set of parts, then two weeks to make the device, then two more weeks to assemble the others, then a two weeks to look up how shipping and payment works best internationally. That's six weeks to two months in total before I can start providing these.

The headset is just like any headphones but instead of speakers it has a two lasers that you can manually adjust to point into your ear canal, they set will be around three times as powerful as anything else on the market and hopefully cost 100,- dollars, depending on how long it takes me to assemble these as I have to cancel tutoring sessions to make time.

I'd be interested too. But wouldn't 250 mW be too much ?

It has a volume button you can use to set it to whatever power you want. If users use the provided documentation and we build a dataset we can determine what works best, if at all.

 

[VRZ78]

Update headgear prototype;

Since everyone needs it and I just can't take seeing people buy really expensive crap anymore I've started prototyping a device. I'm sorry it took longer than two days, I tried to do it during the week but eventually had to plan it for today.
I have picked all the parts and am just about to order. It will take two weeks for me to get my first set of parts, then two weeks to make the device, then two more weeks to assemble the others, then a two weeks to look up how shipping and payment works best internationally. That's six weeks to two months in total before I can start providing these.

The headset is just like any headphones but instead of speakers it has a two lasers that you can manually adjust to point into your ear canal, they set will be around three times as powerful as anything else on the market and hopefully cost 100,- dollars, depending on how long it takes me to assemble these as I have to cancel tutoring sessions to make time.



It has a volume button you can use to set it to whatever power you want. If users use the provided documentation and we build a dataset we can determine what works best, if at all.

Man you're a genius...

Will it have other wavelength ?

Try to make the laser diameter as large as possible so we have less problem with aiming..

 

[Tom Cnyc]

@Cityjohn I'd definitely purchase one from you given the opportunity.

 

[BDJ]

@Cityjohn @Bobby B

From reading these threads, you seem to be the resident experts on LLLT.

First, I want to thank all of you work you have been doing with he LLLT therapy and construction. You have been very patient with questions, etc. and I hope I can add a few more to the mix. I have read the dozens and dozens of pages of responses on this site and honestly it is hard to follow the evolution of thought as you have both done lots of R&D (especially in a short amount of time). Coming to grips with T is enough work, much less figuring out the various treatments options, etc.

(I have recently had Tinnitus as of ~2 weeks ago and working hard on various treatment options. Currently on a dose of prednisone and taking HBOT therapy. I am trying to take full advantage of this precious acute period I am in as it seems most treatment is most effective during this time period.)

As far as options for LLLT, the options seems to be as follows:

1. Get in-office treatments with someone like Dr. Wilden or the Lumomed place in FL (I am in USA, so this would be the best option related to location). - This can be followed by home treatment of course.
2. Purchase home device from one of the above and use with the instructions from the facilities.
3. Purchase a pre-made device from one of the commercially available options. Includes these options:

• Konftex
• Lucky Laser
• Options available from the treatment facilities (such as Lumomed/Wilden, etc.)
• There are a few others also, but the above seem to be the most commonly discussed.

4. Build your own (aka this thread). This is where the questions come.

In the end, if I can get relief, the $ doesn't "matter," but I am also not made of it, so I want to be careful with how I spend it.

Questions:

• Lasers or LEDs?- During these forums, there seems to have been some evolution of thought toward this question. It seems to have begun with lasers, but moved toward LEDs. One rationale I think I understand was that the LEDs tending to "spread out" more given a better chance of a broader treatment. They are also safer. Which do you recommend? Lasers or LEDs.
• Which powers, etc. should be used?
• How does a homemade version compare to the commercially available ones? Of course they are cheaper and can be more powerful, but what about their effectiveness?
• Can you point me to "plans" on how to build this. I am sure this can be pieced together from these sites, but hoping something more concise and summarized is available.
• Is there a summary of recommended treatment durations, frequencies, etc.? This seems to be a big benefit to working through the established clinics.

Summarizing, I am unsure of what to do. Part of me is tempted to get in the car and drive down to Sarasota immediately. The other part thinks the DIY makes the most sense.

Hoping this newbie is not asking too much with these questions. Hoping I can get some help in sorting through all of this. Thanks in advance.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

@Cityjohn @Bobby B

From reading these threads, you seem to be the resident experts on LLLT.

First, I want to thank all of you work you have been doing with he LLLT therapy and construction. You have been very patient with questions, etc. and I hope I can add a few more to the mix. I have read the dozens and dozens of pages of responses on this site and honestly it is hard to follow the evolution of thought as you have both done lots of R&D (especially in a short amount of time). Coming to grips with T is enough work, much less figuring out the various treatments options, etc.

(I have recently had Tinnitus as of ~2 weeks ago and working hard on various treatment options. Currently on a dose of prednisone and taking HBOT therapy. I am trying to take full advantage of this precious acute period I am in as it seems most treatment is most effective during this time period.)

As far as options for LLLT, the options seems to be as follows:

1. Get in-office treatments with someone like Dr. Wilden or the Lumomed place in FL (I am in USA, so this would be the best option related to location). - This can be followed by home treatment of course.
2. Purchase home device from one of the above and use with the instructions from the facilities.
3. Purchase a pre-made device from one of the commercially available options. Includes these options:

• Konftex
• Lucky Laser
• Options available from the treatment facilities (such as Lumomed/Wilden, etc.)
• There are a few others also, but the above seem to be the most commonly discussed.

4. Build your own (aka this thread). This is where the questions come.

In the end, if I can get relief, the $ doesn't "matter," but I am also not made of it, so I want to be careful with how I spend it.

Questions:

• Lasers or LEDs?- During these forums, there seems to have been some evolution of thought toward this question. It seems to have begun with lasers, but moved toward LEDs. One rationale I think I understand was that the LEDs tending to "spread out" more given a better chance of a broader treatment. They are also safer. Which do you recommend? Lasers or LEDs.
• Which powers, etc. should be used?
• How does a homemade version compare to the commercially available ones? Of course they are cheaper and can be more powerful, but what about their effectiveness?
• Can you point me to "plans" on how to build this. I am sure this can be pieced together from these sites, but hoping something more concise and summarized is available.
• Is there a summary of recommended treatment durations, frequencies, etc.? This seems to be a big benefit to working through the established clinics.

Summarizing, I am unsure of what to do. Part of me is tempted to get in the car and drive down to Sarasota immediately. The other part thinks the DIY makes the most sense.

Hoping this newbie is not asking too much with these questions. Hoping I can get some help in sorting through all of this. Thanks in advance.

While not addressed to me, I may be of some service.

@Cityjohn provided a rather detailed "plan" when I asked in this thread, a few posts up.

I spoke with John Lieurance in Sarasota. He seems pretty reasonable and isn't overselling the effectiveness. Ultimately he says that hearing is restored in most cases, but tinnitus takes time, and he hasn't seen enough patients on a long enough timeline (he's had the machine 9 months) to be able to predict what the prognosis will be. He suggested I contact Amon Kaiser for this type of information.

The biggest difference with going to Sarasota (and I plan to in early Q1 '17) is the power of the machine. It's a twice pulsed 25W machine, with what I assume are multiple laser wavelengths (the clinic does not provide all specs on the laser). From what I've read, particularly from @Bobby B and others, the higher power machines provide faster results.

Also, since they have a better "spread" (they're aimed from ~5 - 6 inches away, they also cover the tissue surrounding the ear. This has potential to reduce inflammation in the soft tissue and potentially alleviate physical causes not related to the cochlea. I've had cranial and neck treatments that have helped considerably so I'm 100% convinced that treating the tissue around the ear will help a lot.

The trip to Sarasota is not cheap. At a suggested 10 treatments at $250 a pop, you're looking at $2500 dollars, plus room and board.

My plan is to purchase a machine from @Cityjohn if that is still an option or build one myself to his spec, and begin using it upon return from my trip in January. I'd start sooner however some of the parts take nearly a month to ship (heat sinks in particular).

 

[BDJ]

@Tom Cnyc Thank you for your reply. I had seen the earlier post. I wanted to make sure that contains a comprehensive list of what is needed. From what I understand now, it is. To clarify, you are using lasers, not LED, correct?

Are you scheduled to attend the Lumomed place or just planning on attending in the future?

 

[Bobby B]

@BDJ
The studies showing cochlear hair cell regeneration vs a control group used 810 mm but were done at the acute stages Of noise trauma/ ototoxic drug
The same study done weeks later did not show a similar postive result once some time has passed - for rats this was one week .

I think we cannot turn a blind eye to the fact that after a while LLLT isn't very effective , just like prednisone or AM-101 are.

Time is the essence in your case - I would go ASAP to any location or device that has LLLT wihtout wasting precious time on which device to get. You will get much better results in the acute stage .

I did start LT a month after trauma - using a filtered high power IR medical device not a laser - and clearly got some noticeable sound quality and H improvements right away - not so much for the T itself.

Do not waste time - go now and spend the 2500 bucks this will give you the best results For the money.

Then you can look into getting a cheap device for a regular schedule - twice a week is the best / since it may take up to 3 years to get to the final improvements.

In fact they sell high power, safe and ready to use near IR light device in the 850nm range - which is close to what was used in the study - for a mere 7 dollars - yes you read it right only 7 bucks for the powerful Led lamp as per the links posted by someone else in this or the other LLLT thread - I ordered one for myself - money isn't the issue time is the issue.

If you don't have any money I would order that LED lamp ASAP . LED are safe and yet very powerful and cheap so if it's ready built its the best solution by far .

The lucky laser is going to take more than a month to be built and shipped to your location. It's a nice device but for our purposes LED will work just as well if not better and with little risks of hurting yourself.

 

[Aaron123]

The trip to Sarasota is not cheap. At a suggested 10 treatments at $250 a pop, you're looking at $2500 dollars, plus room and board.

Over how many days are the 10 treatments given?

 

[Bobby B]

This is one example :
5000mw of power - more than enough
850 nm - perfect for deep penetration
LED - safe no eye or tissue damage
The lens coverage area diameter is good for ear coverage too
the lamp can be easily pointed at various angles if needed.
Portability - It can be used on trips or anywhere as well

12 dollars total - what can we say ?

https://www.amazon.com/ilauke-Zoomable-Infrared-Flashlight-Hunting/dp/B01DDU0ILY

There are many similar cheap LT solutions using LED - the days of expensive Laser devices or clincal treatments are over

Look for 850nm 5, 7 or even 10w lamp on Amazon .
10w may be overkill but it's only 50bucks

I am retracting the 2500 bucks advice for a clinc treatment based on this . Don't need it.

 

[lymebite]

12 dollars total - what can we say
https://www.amazon.com/ilauke-Zoomable-Infrared-Flashlight-Hunting/dp/B01DDU0ILY

@Bobby B

Great find! How does this compare to the Lucky Laser and what protocol would you recommend (minutes per day, days per week, etc.)?

Also, is this totally safe for the eyes since it is LED?

 

[Tom Cnyc]

Over how many days are the 10 treatments given?

10 business days, so 12.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

It's also worth noting results are ALWAYS better in the acute phase as a large percentage heal with or without treatment.

This is a classic correlation vs causation argument.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

My hearing improved 10db In some spots from the 2nd to 4th week with zero treatment.

If I did LLLT and HBOT and got a handy at a massage spot I could pretend it was associated

 

[Bobby B]

@lymebite
I am convinced Zazzio protocol is correct - don't overdo it or your risk slowing down results
Twice a week - 10 minutes per ear if it's 5000mw that's plenty enough

This is what I do now on my other device and I am getting slow but steady progress

Don't do continuous exposure, but on and off during those 10 minutes to limit heat build up. Wear eye googles or maybe tape some extension around the lense to limit non-ear irradiation .

Obviously the 12 dollars lamp does not have a pulse setting just switch it on and off or move it around every minute or so if you feel too much heat and it's getting uncomfortable .

It not a laser there is not risk to cause sudden tissue damage, eye damage ...big plus for human body applications.

 

[Bobby B]

It's also worth noting results are ALWAYS better in the acute phase as a large percentage heal with or without treatment.

This is a classic correlation vs causation argument.

They did studies wiht control groups
The non LLLT group did much worse

 

[curemyears]

Sun light can also engrave wood if you focus it. Don't focus it into a point. I've said it before, Lasers are serious business and you need to pay attention whenever using them. You can however focus the module into a thick parallel beam that will not heat up the skin, it will only feel slightly warm to the touch.

View attachment 11618

If you want the same benefits as Dr Wilden's Lux Spa Home Laser, I think it is important to have a divergent beam and not a 7 mm thick beam like yours on the picture. Lux Spa Home Laser has a spot size of 90x20 to 110x30 (mm) at 10 cm.

I don't know if it is standard for a laser diode beam to be divergent but his are divergent (elliptical to be more precise).

Also I have tried a DIY 625 nm wired-LED device of about 25 mw with a 15° divergence. I can tell it does something as my tinnitus gets more high-pitched for 24 hours after the 30 min session. But I can also tell it is different from the effect of Home Lux Spa laser, maybe it comes from the wavelength which is 658nm. It is a very subjective feeling, but I get the impression Home Lux is getting deeper.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I'm a bit confused by a lot of your posts, @Bobby B. You do LLLT, but say it won't help tinnitus. You also say it helped your tinnitus. You say that it only works for the first week, but also that it takes years to work, and continue to do it beyond one week.

Does this work for you or not? Are you a proponent of it?

Apologies if this reads as confrontational. That's not my intention. I'm trying to figure this stuff out just like everyone else.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

If you want the same benefits as Dr Wilden's Lux Spa Home Laser, I think it is important to have a divergent beam and not a 7 mm thick beam like yours on the picture. Lux Spa Home Laser has a spot size of 90x20 to 110x30 (mm) at 10 cm.

I don't know if it is standard for a laser diode beam to be divergent but his are divergent (elliptical to be more precise).

Also I have tried a DIY 625 nm wired-LED device of about 25 mw with a 15° divergence. I can tell it does something as my tinnitus gets more high-pitched for 24 hours after the 30 min session. But I can also tell it is different from the effect of Home Lux Spa laser, maybe it comes from the wavelength which is 658nm. It is a very subjective feeling, but I get the impression Home Lux is getting deeper.

So you're using his laser for a year. What's the outcome?

I have to say - I don't want to be a skeptic - but I find it highly suspicious that all your postings a year ago were how great the device is and within one day, and a full year later you emerge only after someone who clearly understands the science is willing to make a competitive product available at a price that is projected at less than 5% of the cost.

I do hope you're a real patient that is getting results though.