Drop the Word ‘Negativity’ Once and for All

[PeteJ]

@Elfin - agree
@Jazzer has opinions on a host of things and most do. I have agreement with Jazzar Dave and others such as @PeteJ that tinnitus can be a pain for all, but it certainly can be when it's severe. I don't respond to anyone with criticism unless they mention that all with tinnitus can live a totally normal productive life. I'm not against uplifting and will, but it always carefully worded among health professionals - nurses and there are reasons for that. I have severe pain associated to physical problems and @fishbone understands as he has PM me showing compassion. Many here are very understanding towards me and others.

Jazzer is very compassionate, like most. He mails me most everyday to see how I'm doing.

I have talked to several researchers by email and told them that I post here. Some have said I view TT and I like what you post about physical T and PT and also like what others post. More than one researcher has mentioned @Michael Leigh and @Bill Bauer in regards that loud noise exposure is not a friend when one has tinnitus. They mention that this would include using headphones to listen to music. These researchers had said why take a chance. More than one has mentioned not to use protection when not in the face of loud noise as over protection can lower the auditory threshold.

I find that condition is worse than other conditions even if few agree with me. But, if your tinnitus is severe then wearing plugs or hearing protection means the damn tinnitus tones are isolated and you are stuck hearing them and nothing else. Hearing protection may contribute to ear pain. But, perhaps, loud sounds cause ear pain? You have to worry about hyperacusis either way but sound thresholds are probably different. It is important to be cautious and protect hearing but also in the hope to avoid worsening the tinnitus

I agree, in principle, what Michael Leigh and Bill Bauer advise but what about what I said above? Imho, severe tinnitus makes it even more difficult to do anything.

 

[Elfin]

Hi Elfin
Thank goodness for you and for people like you.
I've been on here on and off for about four years.
Every so often I have needed to correct somebody - usually a light sufferer - for criticising those like myself, who have severe tinnitus - for being negative.
Speaking about the reality of this condition takes integrity and considerable courage.
I don't like even admitting to myself what I have.

In certain quarters I have been accused with some regularity of being negative, nasty, arrogant, profane, a trouble maker, of having an agenda? and so on...
It doesn't actually hurt me in any real sense
- I happen to know who I am.
My self respect is not dependent on others.
I believe in kindness.

I will say that I never choose to upset anybody gratuitously, but we are all vulnerable to 'poison darts' and will sometimes be reactive.

I think - of all the stuff I've written on here, this post was the most necessary.

Dave x
Jazzer

@Jazzer I never cease to be surprised when I read haughty pontificators tell an individual sufferer how their pain or tinnitus is or should be, as though they have more authority, expertise and understanding of it than the person directly experiencing it. It seems contrary and perverse to expect someone who is reaching out on a support forum and labouring under severe, subjective and impactful tinnitus - however loud - to just be quiet, or, if not, be positive. It's paradoxical, surely, as if you were positive about the entire thing, you wouldn't be reaching out for support and help.

I've never seen you maliciously aim to hurt of demean anyone on this forum, only defend your right to express your opinion when others have sought to invalidate or undermine it. You also offer support and guidance and anecdotal advice on what has helped you from a clear place of reflective kindness.

Long may you, and it, continue!

 

[Jazzer]

Further to what @fishbone has said,
I would just like to give @Greg Sacramento a mention.

Greg and I have a very good relationship.
We have spoken with the utmost intimacy on so many aspects of our lives, that we know each other very well.
Now don't run away with the idea that we always agree on everything. We don't.
We are honest enough to disagree and we will say so.
But we will never fall out.
Why?
Because I 'know' who he is - and he 'knows' who I am.
We have a mutual respect.

I would also like to say that, even though I have never actually met him in person, I love the guy.
I love the way that he will go out of his way to help so many members on here, with his vast medical knowledge, and if he doesn't have answers at his finger tips, he always research for you.
And all this despite suffering very severe tinnitus and appalling mouth pain from the aftermath of surgery.

This forum is very lucky to be able to access the person of Greg Sacramento.

Dave x
Jazzer

 

[Fifth Business]

My sentiment is more aligned with the belief that if someone posts an opinion on this forum designed to assist and prevent others making similar mistakes that they themselves have made and have suffered form, surely that is a compassionate and generous thing to do. Whether it is objectively correct or not, or a shared experience, can be debated, but can, in the example of headphone use, be done so with a sentence such as: "I have continued to use headphones and have found no worsening in my symptoms. In my experience they are therefore safe to use, albeit at low volumes,"

If your takeaway is that myself (or anybody really) would take issue with anyone articulating their opinion based on personal experience in the way you described (and wouldn't be anything but respectful and well-considered) then, welp I really just don't know what to say

 

[Star64]

Hi Elfin
Thank goodness for you and for people like you.
I've been on here on and off for about four years.
Every so often I have needed to correct somebody - usually a light sufferer - for criticising those like myself, who have severe tinnitus - for being negative.
Speaking about the reality of this condition takes integrity and considerable courage.
I don't like even admitting to myself what I have.

In certain quarters I have been accused with some regularity of being negative, nasty, arrogant, profane, a trouble maker, of having an agenda? and so on...
It doesn't actually hurt me in any real sense
- I happen to know who I am.
My self respect is not dependent on others.
I believe in kindness.

I will say that I never choose to upset anybody gratuitously, but we are all vulnerable to 'poison darts' and will sometimes be reactive.

I think - of all the stuff I've written on here, this post was the most necessary.



Dave x
Jazzer

Jazzer you are one of the wisest people on this forum, because this quote says it all
"What wisdom can you find that is greater than kindness?

 

[Elfin]

If your takeaway is that myself (or anybody really) would take issue with anyone articulating their opinion based on personal experience in the way you described (and wouldn't be anything but respectful and well-considered) then, welp I really just don't know what to say

To be fair, I wasn't referring to you or your replies directly, more making a comment on the general tenor and evolution of most of the longer threads. This one swings that way as did @MattS when he was documenting his personal working through of the spike he enduring following a birthday party. As have many others, unnecessarily.

 

[linearb]

My sentiment is more aligned with the belief that if someone posts an opinion on this forum designed to assist and prevent others making similar mistakes that they themselves have made and have suffered form, surely that is a compassionate and generous thing to do. Whether it is objectively correct or not, or a shared experience, can be debated, but can, in the example of headphone use, be done so with a sentence such as: "I have continued to use headphones and have found no worsening in my symptoms. In my experience they are therefore safe to use, albeit at low volumes," rather than "you are a self-righteous moron who spreads fear and ignorance. Headphone use is fine."

This is an incredibly reasoned response, and I would be well advised to just shut up and follow it. However

when someone, or perhaps many someones, have invested a great deal of time and effort in numerous reasoned, evidence-based posts which are more or less along the lines of what you've suggested, and just been responded to with an absolute stone wall of copy/pastes of the same tired, objectively incorrect statements, it's draining. Perhaps it's "correct" to simply not respond past a certain point; on the other hand, when this happens, then the source of objectively false information sometimes becomes the only response to a new poster, as others are tired of rehashing this. I find that at least somewhat problematic (though, more annoying than dangerous in this case, since obviously no one is actually going to harm themselves by avoiding headphones).

So, I think that's the crux of it, and even though I agree with you that a lot of posts along these lines, including many of my own, are toxic to the point of counterproductivity -- that toxicity is borne out of a frustration. You cannot debate in good faith with someone whose views are stone, but you cannot debate at all with someone who just copy/pastes the same things over and over, and you can't actually ignore someone who responds to every single thread on a given common subject because you'll be able to see their replies in the white space very clearly.

And, as far as "civility" -- I don't think @Michael Leigh and I are really that different; it's just that when I want to tell someone "get bent", I generally do it, and he'll find a way to hide behind civility and say something like

Good day to you

even if it's obvious from context that what's actually been written is "get bent". Decorum is a tired mask for animus; I'd rather call a spade a spade and move on with the day.

I wish I could say, "I'd rather be compassionate than be right", and that is a personal development goal I have for myself, but I'm not there yet. As, I suspect, are most people, excluding people in various monasteries.

 

[fishbone]

This is an incredibly reasoned response, and I would be well advised to just shut up and follow it. However

when someone, or perhaps many someones, have invested a great deal of time and effort in numerous reasoned, evidence-based posts which are more or less along the lines of what you've suggested, and just been responded to with an absolute stone wall of copy/pastes of the same tired, objectively incorrect statements, it's draining. Perhaps it's "correct" to simply not respond past a certain point; on the other hand, when this happens, then the source of objectively false information sometimes becomes the only response to a new poster, as others are tired of rehashing this. I find that at least somewhat problematic (though, more annoying than dangerous in this case, since obviously no one is actually going to harm themselves by avoiding headphones).

So, I think that's the crux of it, and even though I agree with you that a lot of posts along these lines, including many of my own, are toxic to the point of counterproductivity -- that toxicity is borne out of a frustration. You cannot debate in good faith with someone whose views are stone, but you cannot debate at all with someone who just copy/pastes the same things over and over, and you can't actually ignore someone who responds to every single thread on a given common subject because you'll be able to see their replies in the white space very clearly.

And, as far as "civility" -- I don't think @Michael Leigh and I are really that different; it's just that when I want to tell someone "get bent", I generally do it, and he'll find a way to hide behind civility and say something like


even if it's obvious from context that what's actually been written is "get bent". Decorum is a tired mask for animus; I'd rather call a spade a spade and move on with the day.

Damn, you write like a poet and YOU KNOW IT!!!!

 

[linearb]

Damn, you write like a poet and YOU KNOW IT!!!!

my boss who is bilingual figured this one before he even hired me and now I spend more time writing documentation and stuff than writing code, it's a curse

 

[Daniel Lion]

my boss who is bilingual figured this one before he even hired me and now I spend more time writing documentation and stuff than writing code, it's a curse

Glad you arr here bro.

I haven't contributed to this post... I basically advocate love and compassion.
It's hot here, but I bet the fall, or autumn, is gonna be gorgeous where you arr at.
Enjoy and take care... see you round the boards Maestro.

 

[Jazzer]

it's just that when I want to tell someone "get bent", I generally do it, and he'll find a way to hide behind civility and say something like

"Good day to you."

Very perceptive @linearb
A certain gentleman - who shall remain nameless - has often criticised me for my profanity,
(eg- "this condition is 'effing shit!")
Writing posts littered with expletives etc...
And then finishing up with perhaps his all time favourite platitude of:
"I wish you a good day," which I always imagine to be uttered between 'gritted teeth.'

Yes - I have been accused of profanity,
but never 'Pomposity,"
- but of course (Warning: platitude coming up)
"We have all grown to love him just the way he is."
Dave x
Jazzer

 

[Jazzer]

I'm very proud of all contributors xxx

 

[Jazzer]

My misus is Dutch - apart from that she is perfectly normal.

(She's looking over my shoulder again.)

We drive up to Holland several times a year, visiting ancestors.
There are still some left.
We take a bungalow in various different holiday villages, and stay for a week or so.

Two years ago I was taking my daily walk around the park and this particular tree 'jumped out at me!'
It hit me!
Metaphorically of course.

I was feeling a bit low, a bit noisy headed if I'm honest, a bit sorry for myself perhaps.
As we all know - it happens.

Well, I looked up, saw this tree, and felt an immediate affinity with it.
I liked it immediately.

Battered - windswept - struggling - no longer beautiful - solitary, proud-ish, brave perhaps, and most importantly, still here
- a survivor.

I am sure everybody here understands that there are times when each of us gets reflective with this condition - nostalgic for earlier untroubled times perhaps - an understandably elegiac response.

You already know the next bit - I identified with this tree, which became 'my tree.'
I stood in the middle of the lane and took a picture of it.

A guy was walking past with his dog - looked at me - looked up at the tree - looked back at me again - and walked on.

He didn't actually shake his head - he was probably just being polite.

At my age you don't much care what people think of you.
Well - you do - and you don't if you know what I mean.
Last week, it was exactly two years to the very day, when I walked past 'my tree' again.
I had to take another photo of course.

He looked a bit older, a bit more scrubby, a bit scruffier - but who cares.
He didn't and I didn't.

I'm a bit older, probably a bit scruffier also.
If I'm scrupulously honest I will mention that I did whisper a couple of comments to him - but don't ask me what - it's a secret - strictly between him and me.
I thought you might like to see my tree,
so here he is folks......x

Dave x
Jazzer

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I have two same type tall pine trees side by side in my back yard.
I can see them thru my back windows and thru a bedroom sliding door.
They are not far away from sight.
They are old just like your tree @Jazzer.
They don't get deep watering anymore and I suppose that you understand why.
Severe hot weather has them wishing for more water.
Branches on the bottom of pine trees always physically stress first as with our trees.
Branches with no green still hang on my trees.
Water travels to the top branches first and when they get their fill, then the bottom branches will get their share.
I never took pictures of my trees.
My dad once told me, pictures are fine, but enjoy the real company at least for a moment here and there before you no longer can.
I also have some large glacier rocks that lie in my yards and they have challenged time.
Their beauty has never changed.
Neither has the beauty of our dear spouses.
Dave, continue to be with family.
I guess that we are same type, just as our universal trees are.

 

[Jazzer]

Their beauty has never changed.
Neither has the beauty of our dear spouses.

Greg - we have this cursed condition,
but at least we are both married to our
absolute angels. xx

 

[JohnAdams]

My misus is Dutch

is there a difference between Dutch and Deutsche? I know Deutsche is German but they sound so similar...

 

[Jazzer]

is there a difference between Dutch and Deutsche? I know Deutsche is German but they sound so similar...

They can also be called Hollanders
or Nederlanders.
The language spoken is Dutch.

 

[Jazzer]

Any accusation of 'negativity' constitutes an appalling swear word.
Would you have sufferers suffer their pain, their hurt, their appalling noise - in silence!

Or should they be able to trust this community by telling us of their hurt, and their very real fears, without accusations of - ''negativity?'

By the way - out of interest - what does a position of superiority actually feel like?

 

[Agrajag364]

I agree with you, Jazzer.

Some people overreacted to a post of mine. I didn't mean any disrespect as I never do. I just don't like when people with severe tinnitus have reactions like, "you're negative" or "he/she/you probably has/have other things going on and that is why X can't cope. " Also, the idea that one feels worse because of what is read. Well, it is easy to worry about whether a noise or loud sound is harmful. But, no one without tinnitus can relate and I don't know about others but it's difficult to talk about this with those who don't have tinnitus at all.

It's sad that those with tinnitus perceive slight when none was intended. It sucks when your tinnitus is really severe and someone wants to pin a theory that you are negative or have "other things" going on and that is why you "can't cope."

I would rather have no tinnitus and deal with 'other things.' That's how bad my tinnitus is.

Loudness matters a lot. Quiet tinnitus is much easier. I completely understand why somebody with loud tinnitus would hate it and feel suicidal even if they quite enjoyed their life and didn't have too many other problems before they got it.

I also think some of us are just wired to react really badly to sound. And that some of us are just wired to generally be quite obsessive. I am definitely like that with regard to sound and focusing on things that piss me off.

But it's not unreasonable to say that some people who are struggling might have something else going on in their life. Yes not all of them, but some of them. Again that's definitely true for me. I had so many other physical health problems I was struggling with when I got this, I have no doubt whatsoever that's a big reason I'm finding this hard.

 

[Agrajag364]

is there a difference between Dutch and Deutsche? I know Deutsche is German but they sound so similar...

Deutsch is obviously what the Germans called German. My Dutch friend says generally she can understand Germans speaking German and they can understand her speaking Dutch, the Languages must be similar enough.

 

[Agrajag364]

Loudness matters a lot. Quiet tinnitus is much easier. I completely understand why somebody with loud tinnitus would hate it and feel suicidal even if they quite enjoyed their life and didn't have too many other problems before they got it.

I also think some of us are just wired to react really badly to sound. And that some of us are just wired to generally be quite obsessive. I am definitely like that with regard to sound and focusing on things that piss me off.

But it's not unreasonable to say that some people who are struggling might have something else going on in their life. Yes not all of them, but some of them. Again that's definitely true for me. I had so many other physical health problems I was struggling with when I got this, I have no doubt whatsoever that's a big reason I'm finding this hard.

Further to this, and as others have commented more articulately on this thread. I actually do agree with Michael in his other posts that positivity is incredibly important in dealing with something like this, that positivity can be extremely powerful. I don't normally agree with Michael but I think he is right about this. And conversely, that there can be a lot of negativity on forums like this.

But "Negativity" is always in context... if one individual is struggling more than another with an ailment, it normally isn't because they are straight up weaker, it's very much informed by context. How bad the ailment it is of course, but also other things like how much other stuff that person has dealing on, how much prior trauma and shit they may have had to deal with in their life, their support system, their hope for the future about their life.

I.e., I used to beat myself up a lot for not being able to be more positive, for having become such a negative person. In particular, for not accepting and dealing with tinnitus in the way that others are able to. Why couldn't I apply more positivity? But over time I have mostly stopped doing that. Because it's always in context. I think some of us are just sensitive to sound. Some of us had been through a lot of trauma and were dealing with a lot of difficulties already when we got this. That kind of thing always informs how we react to something like this. Even if loudness also a major factor in positivity versus negativity.

However - that is not to say we have no choice in how positive or negative we are though. There is always at least some choice.

 

[Jazzer]

The very word 'negativity' is 'SHIT !!'
It literally stinks.
This is 'supposedly' a support forum for people suffering with a hateful condition called 'tinnitus.'

People are struggling, doing their best, and looking for our support.

Give me one instance where the label 'negativity' has been applied, and where it has not increased someone's feeling of inadequacy and self loathing.
Anybody advocating the use of the word 'negativity' needs a vocabulary enema.

We should just 'be there' for each other,
and Not Judge !!

 

[Mister Muso]

I don't judge someone who is struggling. I don't put labels on them.

But if I find certain types of posts or conversations are not having a beneficial effect on me, and I don't feel in a state of mind to help someone else, then I'll aim to avoid those topics or maybe the whole forum for a few days.

There - I didn't use the N word!

 

[TheDanishGirl]

is there a difference between Dutch and Deutsche? I know Deutsche is German but they sound so similar...

Well, that really depends where you are from I guess. As a Dane I can say that the Dutch and German sound nothing alike to me. I can easily tell one apart from the other. (And Dutch is VERY different to Danish - I don't know why so many people seem to mix up these two )

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Cells send messages through pathways to the brain stem, reticular formation, thalamus, somatosensory cortex, and limbic system. These pathways relays associate to both severe tinnitus and physical condition. When physical pain is high, tinnitus awareness will be higher according to many studies. I take NAC to help with tinnitus awareness since I also have physical pain. It's also needed to understand why tinnitus may bother some even when their sounds are not loud. For this read the blue highlighted section on the left within this link.

http://projects.hsl.wisc.edu/GME/PainManagement/session2.3.html

 

[Greg Sacramento]

We should just 'be there' for each other,
and Not Judge !!

People who score higher on cognitive empathy have more grey matter in their dorsomedial prefrontal cortex.
Ones that don't have lots of gray matter are more naturally self protective when they experience little pain or discomfort. They can place great focus on telling others to be positive as a way to try to control their own limbic fear response and for them this often works.