Elon Musk’s Neuralink Looking to Treat Tinnitus

[ThomasF]

The brain argument is a strange one.

Phantom pain, just from a quick google, comes from the spinal cord and brain. So in terms of tackling the pain itself, targeting those components makes logical sense.

However, say with a lost hand, the transplanting of a hand seems to have resulted in alleviation of phantom pain and in some cases the complete ridding of it. In essence this makes the argument that, if the tissue is replaced/repaired and assuming tinnitus plays by similar rules to phantom pain, the phantom noise could be at least reduced if not removed entirely.

Nerve stuff is weird and I am no doctor of course, but a lot of these pieces fit.

 

[in_LA]

At the moment I remain cautiously optimistic on anything that comes from Musk's businesses. I wish he would put out as much time on Neuralink as he does on Twitter.

 

[Damocles]

>comparing phantom sounds to a knife in the hand instead of phantom pains in the hand after the knife was removed years ago

But I thought phantom pains only occur after people lose their limbs though. People experiencing pain in the arms or legs when they are no longer there (amputated). Phantom pain does eventually go away or decreases substantially for most people I hear too...

Yeah, it would've been ironic, if my response to @Tasty were supposed to have been an analogy or a comparison, because @chinup's is so flawed itself. But it wasn't and my post actually bore no relation to tinnitus beyond debunking an asserted definitive that is all too often coupled with it's mention.

There was no opinion on cause or treatment, just the demonstration of the certainty: that physical damage to any part of the body (not just the ears) is processed in the brain, therefore it is unreasonable to say tinnitus (solely) is beyond doubt, an issue isolated to the brain (and if anyone disagrees with that, then let's start calling arthritis a "brain problem" too, shall we?).

Yet, several members here seem to think my post was attempting to draw an exact parallel with tinnitus. That the hand was supposed to be an ear, and the knife a 200 dB sonic boom or some sh*t. When all it was, was the most obvious way I could think of to illustrate how all pain could be called a "brain problem" in clown world.

I mean, I even clarified the intention of my post after the captain misinterpreted it the first time:

It's almost like... people don't fully read the thread or its posts before rating or responding...

 

[chinup]

Yeah, it would've been ironic, if my response to @Tasty were supposed to have been an analogy or a comparison, because @chinup's is so flawed itself. But it wasn't and my post actually bore no relation to tinnitus beyond debunking an asserted definitive that is all too often coupled with it's mention.

There was no opinion on cause or treatment, just the demonstration of the certainty: that physical damage to any part of the body (not just the ears) is processed in the brain, therefore it is unreasonable to say tinnitus (solely) is beyond doubt, an issue isolated to the brain (and if anyone disagrees with that, then let's start calling arthritis a "brain problem" too, shall we?).

Yet, several members here seem to think my post was attempting to draw an exact parallel with tinnitus. That the hand was supposed to be an ear, and the knife a 200 dB sonic boom or some sh*t. When all it was, was the most obvious way I could think of to illustrate how all pain could be called a "brain problem" in clown world.

I mean, I even clarified the intention of my post after the captain misinterpreted it the first time:

View attachment 51417

It's almost like... people don't fully read the thread or its posts before rating or responding...

View attachment 51418

Ah yes, it's our fault that you didn't foresee the logical interpretation of your not-really-about-tinnitus meme in the tinnitus forum. Thank goodness we have the treatise you've written explaining what you actually meant.

my post actually bore no relation to tinnitus beyond debunking an asserted definitive that is all too often coupled with it's mention.

You write like a 17-year-old who has just decided to major in philosophy after taking mushrooms. No one should be put through torture of "fully reading" it. Pull your head out of your ass and communicate like someone who respects the other people in this forum and maybe you'll be better understood. Cheers.

 

[Damocles]

Ah yes, it's our fault that you didn't foresee the logical interpretation of your not-really-about-tinnitus meme in the tinnitus forum. Thank goodness we have the treatise you've written explaining what you actually meant.

Your interpretation = the "logical" interpretation.

Of course.

In 1988 John Carpenter wrote a film named They Live about the dangers of capitalism.

30 years later the film is interpreted by a couple thousand people, as a prophetic warning about a secret society like the "illuminati", or actual aliens, controlling the global population.

Carpenter has himself come out and stated this is an outright nonsense.

But I suppose the latter was the "logical interpretation", despite what the author of the work says.

Personally, I think the "logical" interpretation -whether it be a cinematic masterpiece or an amateurishly composed "meme" exposing a poor scientific theory- is to look at something like it's context, given: the time it was written in (i.e. Reagan's presidency), or perhaps just reading the text it's responding to (i.e. a post stating any issue processed in the brain can only be treated in the brain).

Listen, I once misinterpreted an excerpt from a book by Herbert Ernest Bates in an English exam. I get how you're feeling; you're upset. But I didn't write a bitter and sarcastic message to the exam board, or the long time dead Herbert Ernest Bates for that matter. I accepted the lost mark and moved on (trying my best with with the creative writing paper), and you should too.

You write like a 17-year-old who has just decided to major in philosophy after taking mushrooms.

17 year old on mushrooms, huh? That stings. But it's funny maturity should come up here, because there's no way you (or @JackSparrow) could possibly have confirmed the meaning of my post before shooting it down, was there?

No. I guess that doesn't provide quite the same adrenaline rush as "cleverly" upstaging a randomer on a support forum.

No one should be put through torture of "fully reading" it.

Then keep half-reading people's posts and incorrectly contradicting them. It's no skin off my nose, because I have no intention of ever interacting with you again. But as for your future relations on the forum, I'm sure this behaviour will make you very popular.

Pull your head out of your ass and communicate like someone who respects the other people in this forum

I respect many people on this forum. One thing all of them have in common, is that they're not gunning for this award▼ with posts like yours.

You have my sincerest apologies for depriving you of it on this occasion (your "witty" retort being so wide of the mark). But seeing as it means so much to you, you have my best wishes for your future endeavours in one-upmanship.

 

[ThomasF]

I wonder if Neuralink could improve certain eye issues. My mother had a stroke years back that made her vision worse. She isn't blind and thank God she is doing very well.

However, her eyesight was affected and it isn't the eyes themselves, more so the optic nerve that was damaged.

 

[Sam Marksmen]

Neuralink is what's going to make people walk someday.

If damaged hair cells cause excess Glutamate and the NMDA receptors can't eat them all up, you have neurotoxicity and that kills auditory nerve cells I think. Then your brain doesn't have that stimuli so it makes up its own.

I could be wrong about all this. But at that junction if you introduced a new stimuli electronically, you might cancel out the tinnitus. Out of any of the cures or treatments this by far makes the most sense.

The problem is it's like all of Elon's stuff, ultra expensive and for a select few.

 

[danielthor]

The problem is it's like all of Elon's stuff, ultra expensive and for a select few.

I was just now thinking about this. Is Neuralink even worth holding out hope for? Considering it's probably not something an ordinary person could ever afford.

Edit:

There's this:

But not sure how believable this is.

 

[AfroSnowman]

I was just now thinking about this. Is Neuralink even worth holding out hope for? Considering it's probably not something an ordinary person could ever afford.

Edit:

There's this:

View attachment 51474

But not sure how believable this is.

Folks go 10s of thousands in medical debt all the time to get treatments. If it works, I'd rather drive an old POS car for the rest of my life than live with tinnitus. Sign me up for crippling debt if it works.

 

[Sam Marksmen]

A few thousand dollars, hell ten, I'll be in debt, plus once they do it, they can't repossess it.

 

[SmallRonnie]

Folks go 10s of thousands in medical debt all the time to get treatments. If it works, I'd rather drive an old POS car for the rest of my life than live with tinnitus. Sign me up for crippling debt if it works.

Health is priceless. Plus, my condition is so bad, if it were better, I would be able to actually work too and make more money anyway.

Seeing all the Teslas go on fire though doesn't give me massive faith in this lol.

 

[BrOKeN_1]

they can't repossess it

Control. Alt. Delete. Lol.

 

[ThomasF]

I'd live as a hermit in the woods subsisting on berries and squirrels if it meant a life without tinnitus. The demand is real.

 

[Sam Marksmen]

Control. Alt. Delete. Lol.

I almost laughed but I'm in so much pain. You got me close however, thank you.

 

[Lins12]

There was going to be an update on October 31st. It's been moved to November 30th with no further explanation.

Elon Musk's Neuralink pushes brain-computer event back a month

 

[KoolKat]

There was going to be an update on October 31st. It's been moved to November 30th with no further explanation.

Elon Musk's Neuralink pushes brain-computer event back a month

Is there any way they could kick Elon Musk out the group and replace him with a more honorable billionaire with integrity?

 

[Hottopic29]

There was a study on brain stimulation. Patients only got little relief and had to still use white noise generators.

 

[Gb3]

There was a study on brain stimulation. Patients only got little relief and had to still use white noise generators.

Which study?

 

[BadNeighbors]

I have little faith in this being a treatment for tinnitus in the next 20 years.

Instead, this seems like it will allow those who are paralyzed to communicate via computers and move things via robotic limbs in the next 10 years. This is amazing and truly a marvel, but it is a far cry from adjusting the way the brain functions.

It is my understanding--someone correct me if I'm wrong--that the Neuralink device only monitors brain activity, it doesn't change it. The Neuralink would probably be a powerful tool for someone attempting to understand tinnitus or or for someone testing the effectiveness of various treatments to alleviate tinnitus, but the device itself cannot get our brains to stop making these phantom noises. The device only listens to the brain, it doesn't change the brain.

The idea that this is device will cure a bunch of brain disorders strikes me as almost as fanciful as SpaceX colonizing the moon, let alone Mars. The SpaceX rockets are an amazing feat for cheaply getting things into space, but the company is never going to take humans to Mars, despite Musk selling this story to the public.

This is an interesting and easy to understand video on Neurolink discussed by a scientist who has accomplished amazing feats with similar but weaker devices:

The Science Behind Elon Musk's Neuralink Brain Chip

Finally, this Herzog documentary on space colonization does a good job of giving Musk's SpaceX salesmanship a reality check, which I think provides a bit of context around Musk's salesmanship of Neuralink:

 

[SmallRonnie]

Is there any way they could kick Elon Musk out the group and replace him with a more honorable billionaire with integrity?

Trust me, you don't want him gone.

 

[KoolKat]

Trust me, you don't want him gone.

Oh no, trust me I do, his money can stay but him... no... HECK NO.

Even if he had the cure, I still would make absolutely sure getting it from him was the last resort.

 

[lusiol]

Trust me, you don't want him gone.

It was probably already said before but I even heard it was the opposite, Musk wanted to hire a whole new team for Neuralink because progress was too slow for him.

He also wanted to invest on Neuralink rival "Synchron" who received FDA approval this year. Neuralink is still waiting for the FDA approval.

Elon Musk is reportedly considering investment in Neuralink's rival brain chip company

 

[CW Dragon]

Trust me, you don't want him gone.

Doesn't his wife or girlfriend have tinnitus?

Wouldn't be surprised if she was on this site if it's mild/severe/catastrophic - must be if it's public knowledge she has it.

 

[lusiol]

Doesn't his wife or girlfriend have tinnitus?

Wouldn't be surprised if she was on this site if it's mild/severe/catastrophic - must be if it's public knowledge she has it.

They are no longer together unfortunately. That said, they may stay linked, as she remains the mother of two of his children.

 

[@dam]

It is my understanding--someone correct me if I'm wrong--that the Neuralink device only monitors brain activity, it doesn't change it. The Neuralink would probably be a powerful tool for someone attempting to understand tinnitus or or for someone testing the effectiveness of various treatments to alleviate tinnitus, but the device itself cannot get our brains to stop making these phantom noises. The device only listens to the brain, it doesn't change the brain.

The chip has read and write function.

 

[Ela Stefan]

They are no longer together unfortunately. That said, they may stay linked, as she remains the mother of two of his children.

She has it mild/moderate so she resumed a normal life despite tinnitus.

 

[BadNeighbors]

The chip has read and write function.

What exactly does this mean? Monitoring the brain and then using those signals to tell machines to do X, Y, and Z seems like a reasonable goal as academics have pulled this off and it is time for industry to jump in and build upon this work.

However, writing the brain sounds a bit fantastic and into the realm of science-fiction.

 

[Jerad]

I have little faith in this being a treatment for tinnitus in the next 20 years.

Instead, this seems like it will allow those who are paralyzed to communicate via computers and move things via robotic limbs in the next 10 years. This is amazing and truly a marvel, but it is a far cry from adjusting the way the brain functions.

It is my understanding--someone correct me if I'm wrong--that the Neuralink device only monitors brain activity, it doesn't change it. The Neuralink would probably be a powerful tool for someone attempting to understand tinnitus or or for someone testing the effectiveness of various treatments to alleviate tinnitus, but the device itself cannot get our brains to stop making these phantom noises. The device only listens to the brain, it doesn't change the brain.

The idea that this is device will cure a bunch of brain disorders strikes me as almost as fanciful as SpaceX colonizing the moon, let alone Mars. The SpaceX rockets are an amazing feat for cheaply getting things into space, but the company is never going to take humans to Mars, despite Musk selling this story to the public.

This is an interesting and easy to understand video on Neurolink discussed by a scientist who has accomplished amazing feats with similar but weaker devices:

The Science Behind Elon Musk's Neuralink Brain Chip

Finally, this Herzog documentary on space colonization does a good job of giving Musk's SpaceX salesmanship a reality check, which I think provides a bit of context around Musk's salesmanship of Neuralink:

Why is Elon saying this will cure tinnitus within 5 years if that's true - that it doesn't really change the brain functions?

 

[Jupiterman]

Elon Musk is a bit of an eccentric who likes to surprise people.

I doubt he is giving away all his secrets as to how this innovative treatment works.

Just be glad that the richest man on Earth, who has achieved great success elsewhere and has a great deal of resources, is working on helping all of us here.

 

[@dam]

However, writing the brain sounds a bit fantastic and into the realm of science-fiction.

Technically that's what E4. Shore's device is doing, zapping and influencing the brain. But her technique is extremely primitive as to what Neuralink will be able to provide

Is it safe to suggest that if the Neuralink can stop / suppress tinnitus, it can also do a whole range of auditory things as such, play music through the brain, turn off your hearing completely, stop your brain from hearing loud sounds, etc.?

Would love everyone's opinions.