Exactly WTF? Some of the Information About Tinnitus Is Total Bullshit by Complete Idiots

[JohnAdams]

I am just truly horrified by this condition, not only the mental wreck that it can turn people into and basically ruin their lives, but the fact that the people that we turn to for information about it are complete idiots that really don't know jack shit.

For example:
Goes to concert
Damages cochlea
Goes to ENT
ENT sees small ear wax
ENT uses microsuction
Tinnitus becomes permanently 10x worse when it may have gone away

 

[TheDanishGirl]

Well, the article ain't exactly lying. Antidepressants does lower t in some cases and in some it leaves it unchanged and then in some other cases it makes it worse.

 

[Labyrinthine]

Yep. I've been so frustrated with the incompetence and ignorance of so-called specialists regarding T and H oh so many times...

 

[Mister Muso]

Amitriptyline has no effect on my tinnitus and helps my hyperacusis.

But any drug has side effects and your results may vary.

Sigh. Nothing's ever simple is it?

 

[Mister Muso]

There is a lack of research into what types of treatment help what types of tinnitus, and what the risks are in each case

Doctors on the front line may be doing their best, but ENT consultants don't seem to know any better than general practitioners.

 

[JohnAdams]

Amitriptyline has no effect on my tinnitus and helps my hyperacusis.

But any drug has side effects and your results may vary.

Sigh. Nothing's ever simple is it?

Interesting that it helps with hyperacusis.

 

[Mister Muso]

Interesting that it helps with hyperacusis.

I've known a number of people to say the same but not everyone.

Incidentally my tinnitus is noise induced. If it had been chemically induced by a drug, then I would be much more wary of taking another drug in the hopes of any form of relief. There are of course ways of addressing our condition without resorting to powerful drugs, but most doctors are ill-equipped to advise on such methods.

 

[Solose]

I read a case study where the anti-depressant Mirtazapine completely relieved tinnitus in a person. Others here have said that this same drug made them worse. Anti-depressants work very differently for different people.

I think it's important to get info from peer reviewed studies in medical journals too.

 

[Don Tinny]

Be warned by a doctor?
I don't know how it works in your countries. Here in Argentina that is very unlikely.

When I developed severe tinnitus I consulted with two psychiatrists to try different drugs that could relieve my condition (without success). The second doctor did not even know what tinnitus is. I had to clarify that it is ringing in the ears. Imagine being prescribed Klonopin and then returning to that doctor with loud ringing. What would be the answer? "It's an ear problem, go to the ENT."

 

[all to gain]

My GP, who has been handing out Prozac for 30 years, only just found out that Prozac can actually make tinnitus worse. He still doesn't know, or want tot admit, that it can actually cause tinnitus.

I realise that GPs are jacks of all trades, but you would think that after 30 years he would know pretty much all the side effects of one of the big guns. The same bloke told me that he's never heard that Propranolol can cause tinnitus. He did say thought that it has NO side effects, so it's not surprising really.

Didn't the NHS website, until recently, say that tinnitus is a non-serious condition. Here is what it says now:

"Tinnitus is the name for hearing noises that are not caused by an outside source. It's not usually a sign of any serious conditions and generally improves over time. There are treatments that can help."

Doctors need fining for giving false information or something along those lines.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I remember multiple people writing about benzos actually temporarily making their tinnitus quieter.

 

[linearb]

Yeah; I don't see much to take exception to here.

Drugs are dangerous and all of these things or their withdrawal have caused tinnitus in some people, but some people definitely seem to get a tinnitus reduction from benzos or ADs.

Also, @JohnAdams -- you seem to be pretty wary of charlatans and scammers in general so I'd take a harder look at Neil Baumann, who you're quoting here. He doesn't actually have very good (or in some cases any) evidence for much of the stuff on his list of things that cause tinnitus. I think he sells a book or some nonsense, he triggers my scam-radar a bit.

Stories about someone going on Prozac and getting tinnitus 3 days or 3 months later aren't that useful, because people go on Prozac all the time and people develop tinnitus all the time, so there's inevitably going to be some overlap and without a large and well structured data set you can't really discern what the effect is. Like, it could be that going on Prozac actually makes you less likely to get tinnitus, even though some people do still develop tinnitus shortly after starting it.

 

[JohnAdams]

Also, @JohnAdams -- you seem to be pretty wary of charlatans and scammers in general so I'd take a harder look at Neil Baumann, who you're quoting here. He doesn't actually have very good (or in some cases any) evidence for much of the stuff on his list of things that cause tinnitus. I think he sells a book or some nonsense, he triggers my scam-radar a bit.

LOL that's cool because I pulled that off of the ATA website.

 

[linearb]

LOL that's cool because I pulled that off of the ATA website.

"member discount pricing"

Burn everything to the ground.

 

[JohnAdams]

Burn everything to the ground.

With nano thermite.

 

[ajc]

View attachment 32828

"member discount pricing"

Burn everything to the ground.

And Neil's PhD has nothing to do with tinnitus, his field is not even health related.

Suspect.

 

[all to gain]

Yeah; I don't see much to take exception to here.

Drugs are dangerous and all of these things or their withdrawal have caused tinnitus in some people, but some people definitely seem to get a tinnitus reduction from benzos or ADs.

Also, @JohnAdams -- you seem to be pretty wary of charlatans and scammers in general so I'd take a harder look at Neil Baumann, who you're quoting here. He doesn't actually have very good (or in some cases any) evidence for much of the stuff on his list of things that cause tinnitus. I think he sells a book or some nonsense, he triggers my scam-radar a bit.

Stories about someone going on Prozac and getting tinnitus 3 days or 3 months later aren't that useful, because people go on Prozac all the time and people develop tinnitus all the time, so there's inevitably going to be some overlap and without a large and well structured data set you can't really discern what the effect is. Like, it could be that going on Prozac actually makes you less likely to get tinnitus, even though some people do still develop tinnitus shortly after starting it.

I find his stuff a great source of information. I don't think he is a scammer at all.

And the fact that he has a PhD in something non medical related really means little when you have doctors who don't even know that Prozac for instance can cause tinnitus. He's pretty much deaf and just found a passion for helping others. Nothing wrong with selling a book. He nowhere claims that there is a cure for tinnitus or if you do this or that you will magically become better. It's not like he will be millions from his books.

Sometimes anecdotal stuff is all we have to go on as the medical community won't believe anything that goes against their beloved pharmacology.

I would take the word over many on this site when it comes to tinnitus over what many a GP would say. That's how bad it is out there.

 

[Star64]

I remember multiple people writing about benzos actually temporarily making their tinnitus quieter.

Oh yeah it made it quieter for me, If I kept popping the pill I did not even hear it, but the effect wore off after a short period of time and I would of had to up dose to keep it that way. Plus all the while it was causing many other unexplained health issues so not a good option for me. I do however understand why people turn to them, but they are dangerous drugs Bill and if they turn nasty on you, boy do they turn nasty.

 

[Star64]

And Neil's PhD has nothing to do with tinnitus, his field is not even health related.

Suspect.

Yes he might be suspect and not have a health degree but many of the Drs I have seen about my tinnitus who have Medical qualifications such as "chief neurologist," or "head of the ENT department", would have been better at writing children's books such as Snow White and the seven dwarfs. Because we all know what happened to Snow White when she ate the poison apple.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

but many of the Drs I have seen about my tinnitus who have Medical qualifications such as "chief neurologist," or "head of the ENT department", would have been better at writing children's books such as Snow White and the seven dwarfs. Because we all know what happened to Snow White when she ate the poison apple.

@Star64 You and I both know that along with many others. I'm tired of doctors even coming here down playing tinnitus, saying that all forms of tinnitus is never a result of an inflammatory process other than from a middle ear infection. I'm tired of them saying that few medications have any bearing on tinnitus. I tired of them saying that some mind over body counseling will help those with severe tinnitus and pain.

 

[Mister Muso]

My wife is a doctor and she doesn't like it when I speak about just how inadequate her profession is to deal with our issues. She says just keep taking the amitriptylene you've been prescribed as it's helping the hyperacusis, but to be honest I'm fed up with the side effects of that drug and I'm scared to try anything else in case it's just as bad.

 

[Harley]

My wife is a doctor and she doesn't like it when I speak about just how inadequate her profession is to deal with our issues. She says just keep taking the amitriptylene you've been prescribed as it's helping the hyperacusis, but to be honest I'm fed up with the side effects of that drug and I'm scared to try anything else in case it's just as bad.

Your wife should read through some of these threads.
Then she might understand.

 

[JohnAdams]

My wife is a doctor and she doesn't like it when I speak about just how inadequate her profession is to deal with our issues. She says just keep taking the amitriptylene you've been prescribed as it's helping the hyperacusis, but to be honest I'm fed up with the side effects of that drug and I'm scared to try anything else in case it's just as bad.

Just take control of your body and do what you think is correct. Your wife seems like the type of doctor that thinks they are superior in knowledge when the entire field is woefully inadequate on many levels. If doctors could actually cure diseases like paralysis, blindness, deafness, etc, then I would defer my opinions to them, but they can't really do much, except surgeons. Surgeons are the real doctors.

 

[JohnAdams]

Lol you've met my wife then! Or maybe it's a thing with doctors in general.

To be fair, one of the problems she faces in her daily work is with patients not taking their meds. She's got to remember I'm a husband, not a patient! One of the reasons I joined this forum is to talk to people who understand.

It is doctors in general. They are taught to think the public is too stupid to diagnose themselves because of bias and lack of education, which may be true in many cases but not all.

 

[Mister Muso]

Your wife should read through some of these threads.
Then she might understand.

I've shown my wife some of the links to studies about the effectiveness of certain drugs to treat tinnitus symptoms. She says when she's looking for a drug to prescribe, she favours those which have been through successful double-blind or triple-blind trials, with a convincing success rate. The problem is that so few of the trials on tinnitus treatments have reached those criteria, perhaps through lack of funding or research. In many cases, drugs are prescribed "off-label" e.g. amitriptyline is listed as an anti-depressant, but is also prescribed to aid sleep and has been found in some patients to reduce hyperacusis. However my doctor overlooked the side-effect of breathing difficulties, combined with the fact that I have had stress-related breathing difficulties from which I had been in remission for three years, until this drug caused the return of that problem. So you give yourself multiple other problems in the process of trying to take medication that may possibly help you.

 

[linearb]

huh. I like my doctors, and even though my meds are a mixed bag it's real clear that so far my life on them is a lot better.

if they cause me problems down the line, well, I'm getting quality time with my kid now when they are young enough to care about spending time with ME, so... fuck it, riding horse until it falls over.

if my memory is fucked and i don't recall these sweet moments with clarity, well, I've got pictures and pictures of happy times are better than precise memories of misery

direct quote from my primary doc, ten mins ago: "you know much more about tinnitus than I do, I'll support your decisions".

 

[Star64]

huh. I like my doctors, and even though my meds are a mixed bag it's real clear that so far my life on them is a lot better.

if they cause me problems down the line, well, I'm getting quality time with my kid now when they are young enough to care about spending time with ME, so... fuck it, riding horse until it falls over.

if my memory is fucked and i don't recall these sweet moments with clarity, well, I've got pictures and pictures of happy times are better than precise memories of misery

direct quote from my primary doc, ten mins ago: "you know much more about tinnitus than I do, I'll support your decisions".

You have made a good point linearb, some Drs are willing to include their patients into making informed decisions about their medical treatment and this sounds like your experience.

You are fortunate that you have a supportive medical team around you and that you know the risks involved in your current treatment, but I am sure a lot of that education came from yourself, because their is no doubt in my mind you know more about tinnitus and the risk of benzo use then half the medical community. Glad you have a supportive team on your side.

 

[Star64]

@Star64 You and I both know that along with many others. I'm tired of doctors even coming here down playing tinnitus, saying that all forms of tinnitus is never a result of an inflammatory process other than from a middle ear infection. I'm tired of them saying that few medications have any bearing on tinnitus. I tired of them saying that some mind over body counseling will help those with severe tinnitus and pain.

Lucky I have my sense of humour back, some posts just make me laugh, and this was one of them.

All I can say Greg is "keep your pet hamster safe". Very sad though, this just goes to show you what we are up against.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Star64 Always in agreement with you and so many others that have done recent posting.

Just within the last 3.5 years I saved 2000 medical journal articles and viewed thousands more. Of those 2000 medical journal articles, about 600 may cover most that needs to be known about all forms of tinnitus. For sure there are some important facts that relate to all our conditions - including physical and PT.

I wish that I could highlight all cause and treatments within these 600 articles and index them to certain conditions, but that would take another 2 or so years. I have posted many of these articles. Knowing biology is one thing, but doctors often don't have time to research so few know the real tinnitus connections and that includes ENTs or any other specialty. No one knows everything and viewing research from specific researchers is needed. Here is one more specific condition where treatment mentions is very worthy. https://adc.bmj.com/content/78/1/89

 

[Cape crusader]

Micro suction should be outlawed.
Nuff said.